as I just mentioned in the other thread; antagonistic or otherwise thematic roles that are inhabited by players rather than requiring staff animation and oversight. these could be available to people at certain karma levels to inhabit at their leisure in the same manner that we do --(or did at least)-- gladiator PCS.
just a random list of examples
minions for high power PCS that are above the current glass ceiling
raiders out of the current sim raider camps
rogue mages or rogue spice fiends that would serve as occasional instances of antagonistic conflict
Really any role that -- were it played as a main PC -- would be somewhat boring or isolating, but which an absence is still felt since many of them require staff animation as a "bit" part.
I like this idea, but this is one thing I would karma lock. And I hate karma locking things.
+1 to this idea as well
At least two of your examples can be done by just apping a character can't they?
Staff did temporary roles like this a while back: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,50275.0.html
My recollection is that most of the initial 10+ gith PCs were dead in under 48 hours, including the gith equivalent of a sergeant PC.
You all have no idea how badly I'd want to play a gith.
I already smell like a gith, it's the role I was born to play!
i was riding behind a diesel emission spewing truck today thinking "damn that smells good"
Quote from: HavokBlue on October 14, 2021, 10:16:50 PM
At least two of your examples can be done by just apping a character can't they?
Staff did temporary roles like this a while back: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,50275.0.html
My recollection is that most of the initial 10+ gith PCs were dead in under 48 hours, including the gith equivalent of a sergeant PC.
I dont think they can be apped due to the grind time "required" to be credible opposition. In addition, staff would probably want control over the power levels of opposition, to avoid the current problem that such pcs only tend to come out of their holes when they are ready.
I haven't played enough recently and I don't wanna step on staff toes but it would be cool to see support for something like gith PCs again to be sure. My recollection is that the 2015 implementation required an immense amount of work to prepare including code fixes due to some old DIKU issues, documentation rewrites, new items, etc. It's just also tricky to pull off. Some players take that sort of thing as carte blanche to be a murder hobo and other players see the announcement about roles like that and decide it's time to camp that part of the game world and hunt them.
A formalized process for apping in minor antagonists in roles that are normally not playable would be cool if it was everpresent, given that would somewhat mitigate the FOMO PVP campers et al.
I don't doubt the shenanigans of the gift role call cost more than one player a karma point or two but that's not really what I meant.
I mean small bit parts that you only log into on occasion or perhaps you get a notification that you're needed or a schedule or what have you. Maybe something as small as logging into a mugger roll that virtualizes when you log back out of it.
This idea is meant to let players take some of the load on many of the smaller animations and thematic roles while getting a breath of fresh air from their current PC at the same time.
Quote from: MeTekillot on October 14, 2021, 11:01:51 PM
I mean small bit parts that you only log into on occasion or perhaps you get a notification that you're needed or a schedule or what have you. Maybe something as small as logging into a mugger roll that virtualizes when you log back out of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Kz8gQxzGE
nuthin wurth takin.....
I love this concept. I liked the idea of things like gladiator characters. Personally I'd love to see something for some gladiator characters like the some clans have with some NPC trainers and such.
A chance to kind of grind and play with combat, would really open up my choice of PCs I think. I like having some combat grind. and then be available for various events in game. Maybe with less staff set up. Just have them start as normal PCs.
The concept of almost like, throw away characters would be cool too. Definitely would want it karma locked as I could see all sorts of potential for abuse. Least of which just being completely off the wall and no representative of the world.
If people who didn't play when they were in karma jail just made yolotastic raiders out of red storm whenever they had 0 karma the game would be a lot more fun
Every PC is a temporary PC 8)
As someone who plays quite a few "antagonists", I don't see why this is needed, unless gith rolecall comes up again.
If the temp pcs were skillocked to weaker npc levels, sure thing. I just think they would be used to murderhobo though.
I like the idea, though there may be a need to alter those PCs perceptions a bit.
Like for example, make them incapable of killing people, their damage would always be limited to KO. Make them unable to distinguish Sdescs. They can still see mdescs and gear, so if they take a closer look, they would be able to figure a person out, but from afar it's just 'human', or 'figure'.
Have them immediately capable from chargen, but with significant caps on off/def and other main skills. Or perhaps make learning impossible for them at all, but let them be generated with maxed out low capped skills immediately. They're there to add color to the world and make it come to life, not for character development in terms of code, or even roleplay really.
Lol a gith role call. Textiles, Muk-Utep, Sandlord and Yaraya help you all if that happens.
Quote from: Krath on October 15, 2021, 08:16:36 AM
Lol a gith role call. Textiles, Muk-Utep, Sandlord and Yaraya help you all if that happens.
Textiles alone will be enough.
People expressing a desire to make these temporary yolotastic toons that would start out pre-ground and not be twinkable for extra gainz seems like a symptom of The Grind problem
All characters are temporary! Unless you're shacking up inside stuff and not out there playing. Lets not be diving towards a game of throw aways and focus on trying real hard to be something a of story and fleshed out role.
There is also an obvious OOC bleed problem that would probably prevent this from happening outside of contained cases like gladiators.
Quick scenario with a cast of characters:
Your main toon - belongs to Group A, is totally in love with the leader of Group A.
Your side toon - yolotastic raider
Leader of Group A - your bae, the hawttest piece of IG ass you've met and the strongest warrior in the known.
Leader of Group B - someone you totally hate, your main toon and the Leader of Group A want to kill them (so far as you know).
Scene 1
Main Toon: I will always love you, bae of Group A.
Leader of Group A: I love you too, now rest my dear underling so that we can annihilate Group B next week.
* You log out of your main toon and log on as your side toon. *
Scene 2
Side Toon: I wonder who is in this tent here, Imma raid em!
* your side toon destroys the tent and the Leader of Group A and the leader of Group B pop out nearly naked. Like they were kanking. Your mind is cluttered with distracting thoughts, despite all your karma, about how your bae from Group A managed to make it halfway across the known to kank this guy just 20 minutes after kanking your Main Toon, questions of why these two leaders are kanking at all when you thought they were enemies on your Main Toon...*
Leader of Group B: AAAH IT'S A RAIDER RUN!
Leader of Group A: Screw that I could kill him even with my tits out.
* Bae from Group A one-hits your side toon, mantis head.*
* A day later when you log in as main toon. *
Leader of Group A: What's wrong baby you haven't even touched your crusty loaf of bread.
Main Toon: I don't know, I just feel weird about our relationship.
Leader of Group A: But we kanked last time I saw you and everything seemed so good.
Main Toon: Yeah, but...
Even the GREATEST actors on planet earth have emotions, and can get so caught up in a role that it hampers their ability to act professionally. Even with karma limits, the risk of the above (and this risk of this becoming a game of throwaway PCs with little investment) will nip any hope for this feature in the bud.
Personally I think the issue of ennui should be addressed, and needing to mix things up. Maybe some sort of store/unstore system? Or metekillot's idea in some structured scenario (gladiators, some one off war campaign or other one off event).
I once killed a person and then had to hear a story of loss from that persons surviving mate with two different characters of mine. Consider the heart strings tugged.
But in all honesty, thats what karma is all about. Trust. Playing a psi gives you an incredible access into other peoples secrets. It takes an incredible amount of trust in a player not to use the knowledge in later characters. Same goes with staff positions.
Granted, its also why i would suggest making it impossible for simAdversaries to read sdescs.
On the other side of the coin, it is a reasonable lack of trust in players that also leads to our rules about OOC communication, not being able to talk about past PCs for a year, and so forth.
Your scenario is very different from the one I described because of the time/distance between scenes. OOC communication is closer to the problem I describe (immediate leaking of IG information across characters), which this feature creates.
Gith were probably the only throwaway raider scenario staff condoned because of the language barrier and the complete separation of gith society from other societies.
I think it would be very helpful for very specific essentially gain locked roles were open to PC's as secondary pcs. Like spending a karma or specapp while you have one character already alive and willing to play a gith or a rat or a wild animal of middling to lesser ability without sacrificing a current pc.
Karma as a measure of "trust" can facilitate this, with some caveats or limits. I want to be able to flip from being a noble to a gith when playing an uber restrictive role gets too much and I can just throw myself at some PC's. Or play a jozhal under the assumption someone is outdoors rn. Same for big war-scale rpts, being thrown in as a faceless warrior for either side as a side-character so everyone can experience the events. The suggestion that they cant differentiate sdescs beyond basic info like height or race would also probably be good for anti meta stuff.
Quote from: betweenford on October 15, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
I think it would be very helpful for very specific essentially gain locked roles were open to PC's as secondary pcs. Like spending a karma or specapp while you have one character already alive and willing to play a gith or a rat or a wild animal of middling to lesser ability without sacrificing a current pc.
Karma as a measure of "trust" can facilitate this, with some caveats or limits. I want to be able to flip from being a noble to a gith when playing an uber restrictive role gets too much and I can just throw myself at some PC's. Or play a jozhal under the assumption someone is outdoors rn. Same for big war-scale rpts, being thrown in as a faceless warrior for either side as a side-character so everyone can experience the events. The suggestion that they cant differentiate sdescs beyond basic info like height or race would also probably be good for anti meta stuff.
This is what I was told when my specapp for a tembo player character was declined two months ago.
QuoteNo. I know there's talk sometimes about people having played an ox or something, but we don't let people play animals like this. It's an amusing idea, but no, sorry.
At least one player claims to have gotten to play a tarantula and staff confirmed this, but that is a tangent
Alright, I am back on board generally. As long as the roles are contained or other mechanisms are put in place to stop metagaming, I am on board. But I think even the best players among us would be susceptible to metagaming. If you look east and look west on your raider PC, and see two tents, one belonging to a tribe you hate as your main PC, and the other tent belonging to your main PC's tribe, I bet you 6/10 players if not 9/10 players would attack the tent belonging to an "enemy" tribe, even if their side toon is not "enemies" with that tribe. Probably the only case in which someone would attack their own tribe is if they knew their throwaway PC was weak enough not to cause real harm. It's all game theory and as hundreds of game theory studies show self interest is a stronger motivator than altruism or other higher principles.
I know the person who played a spider.
Can confirm, he was a spider.
Quote from: Jihelu on October 15, 2021, 03:25:04 PM
I know the person who played a spider.
Can confirm, he was a spider.
How do you get your weapon skills up as a tarantula? Kind of shit race IMO.
Quote from: Krath on October 15, 2021, 08:16:36 AM
Lol a gith role call. Textiles, Muk-Utep, Sandlord and Yaraya help you all if that happens.
Hey, it happened in 2015. Never say never.
The 2015 role call is precisely why there won't be a new one. Ask any of the people involved - massive old shitshow, that was.
I have a suspicion my level of familiarity with what went into that role call and the subsequent events surpasses yours and while staff may feel differently, none of the issues I can think of are insurmountable to doing something similar in the future - with the added benefit of lessons learned the last time around. But that 2015 implementation was also not sustainable long term (and it wasn't intended to be, given the roles at expiration dates) and a not insignificant amount of labor would be needed to make something like that a more permanent addition to the world.
A semi-related idea:
Have players apply to play fixtures in clans that aren't quite the same as sponsored roles. Status quo and theme style characters. Cooks, Lieutenants, Senior Nobles and Advisors. With the understanding that you're only in the role to add life to the clan. Like Penned Gladiator, but you're a Penned Clannie instead.
Quote from: MeTekillot on October 31, 2021, 06:11:16 PM
A semi-related idea:
Have players apply to play fixtures in clans that aren't quite the same as sponsored roles. Status quo and theme style characters. Cooks, Lieutenants, Senior Nobles and Advisors. With the understanding that you're only in the role to add life to the clan. Like Penned Gladiator, but you're a Penned Clannie instead.
I don't know if there's a way to do something like a lieutenant or a senior noble as a flavor PC given it would be unrealistic for an individual in that role to just sit there and overlook like... some pressing plot against their clan.
+1 though to lower tier flavor roles.
Quote from: MeTekillot on October 31, 2021, 06:11:16 PM
A semi-related idea:
Have players apply to play fixtures in clans that aren't quite the same as sponsored roles. Status quo and theme style characters. Cooks, Lieutenants, Senior Nobles and Advisors. With the understanding that you're only in the role to add life to the clan. Like Penned Gladiator, but you're a Penned Clannie instead.
This would be neat and honestly with some OOC rules I don't see an issue with it. It really depends on the role for whether this should matter, maybe as like...a broad category?
'Byn camp NPC' as a broad term, not just 'Byn Chef'. So the Byn go out to do something and you get loaded up to play 'Byn Camp Guard Amos' You get a small write up, some advice, and you play Camp Guard Amos while the Byn are out. Maybe you die and get loaded up as 'Quartermaster Amos' instead.
Or Salarr is out doing something secret and you get loaded up to play a virtual guy.
Like the Builder Role but for generic NPCs that may or may not have power depending on need. Not like, 'I am the loaded up Lieutenant of the Byn' but getting loaded up as a trooper or maybe even a sarge should need be and if the player isn't a huge dick about it.
This could be a whole ass thing like builders.