Armageddon General Discussion Board

Trying to gauge the interest of an organized Gladiator clan within the community.   

The goal of this hypothetical organization would be to make being a Gladiator something a PC could pursue as a full profession, similar to what you'd get by joining other clans in-game. 

Assume that the mortality rate for members would be similar to what you get in being a member of any other combat focused clan (i.e. death matches would not be super common, but there would be risks).

I'd be interested.  I wouldn't mind if the death rates were higher than the average combat clan, either. Say, Byn-on-an-RPT death rate (1-2 for an average weekend show, maybe more for a bigger event). Gladiators shouldn't be worried about grinding their skills, they should be worried about putting on a show. Prioritize defense over offense, so you have time to emote and don't end the fights too soon.

A Gladiator Clan would also be a great place to dump convicted criminal PCs instead of executing or fining. Can't pay the 1000 sid fine? Two (in-game) weeks in the Arena!

I would be interested if I could have a mildly skilled gladiator PC out of chargen.

I wouldn't be interested if I had to grind a combat PC in the Byn just to compete with the 'old timer' Gladiators.

Wouldn't mind high death rates at all.

Quote from: Reiloth on December 14, 2016, 06:53:29 PM
I would be interested if I could have a mildly skilled gladiator PC out of chargen.

I wouldn't be interested if I had to grind a combat PC in the Byn just to compete with the 'old timer' Gladiators.

The Gladiator subguild gives some bonus which would be conducive to this role.

I'm not sure how much the individual gladiators would be in competition with one another, but "old timers vs young scrubs" could be mitigated by having a non-Gladiator Clan Leader be in charge of handicapping. Let them select what equipment each gladiator gets to bring in to a fight, and how many to a team. Arm the new guys with swords and the old veteran with a duskhorn dickwhip. Stuff like that.

Have you been to the bloodball RPT's? They're a clusterfuck both ICly and OOCly. Everyone is free to pursue what they wish, but I don't think this'd interest me very much.

I think this should be a thing, and is something I'd be interested in (gimme a reason to play a warrior, plz), but I still think it should be a subset of Borsail hires which are set aside as non-aides, like the gemmed are for Oash.

Quote from: bardlyone on December 14, 2016, 09:26:15 PM
I think this should be a thing, and is something I'd be interested in (gimme a reason to play a warrior, plz), but I still think it should be a subset of Borsail hires which are set aside as non-aides, like the gemmed are for Oash.

I agree, but would still throw convicted felons into the ranks. The above would give Borsail the same kind of PC presence that Oash would, it would give an option for criminals to veered towards, aside from cutting off hands or being executed immediately, "Make it three weeks, trial by combat in the Highlord's Arena", it would give as a continuous source of betting material, and with a clan focused entirely on the Arena, we could focus on, and practice, alleviating the shitstorm of combat messages that get filtered through to the arena audience somehow.

I would see them as an extension/replacement of the Amber Wyverns. The Wyverns would be the trainers, coaches, and referees. Recruitment into the Wyverns might even be an avenue of advancement for long-serving and obedient gladiators.

Now we just need a Fale whorehouse they could recruit from, and each of the 3 PC houses would have a colorful cast of employees.

Could also have multiple houses and clans sponsor a gladiator/team, with the Wyverns in overall control.

Totally, skeelz. And/or fleshing out more about Fale and barding. I know over the past few years there have been attempts to make bards a thing through some avenues w/regard to Fale. I would like to see it be its own venue of hiring where you don't have to be multipurpose aide/bard, and think it would actually make more sense than a whorehouse (re: the recent staff posting about Fale and bards in the music thread). I've already sent some suggestions about the Atrium and musicians being more encouraged in the teahouse. That would serve as a fine vector for Borsail/Fale interests, I would think.

I'd give my right foot, damn near, for watchman tea to be buyable in the Silver Ginka. They have all the other teas. Why not that one? I'd even buy that one. Even if it cost more.

It would also help funnel aspiring musical peepz out of the Gaj - which I've seen people get all pissy about IG more than once. Despite the echo about a musician actually -being- in the Gaj in the vnpc presence there.

Quote from: bardlyone on December 14, 2016, 10:09:32 PM
Despite the echo about a musician actually -being- in the Gaj in the vnpc presence there.

A VNPC who promptly gives up. THAT is the atmosphere of the Gaj, and I have seen THAT atmosphere reinforced by NPC's and PC's alike. Just saying.

Thanks for the votes and responses. 

The specifics on how it's organized are something that would need to be grown organically.  I just wanting to see how hungry the player base is for something like this.

Low skill 1 on 1 fights would be a lot of fun.  Plenty of time for theater and everyone could easily watch what's going on.

Quote from: Patuk on December 14, 2016, 08:50:22 PM
Have you been to the bloodball RPT's? They're a clusterfuck both ICly and OOCly. Everyone is free to pursue what they wish, but I don't think this'd interest me very much.

Part of the reason for this is that the bloodball rules are not comprehensive where there's so many situations in a game that even the participants seem to take pause to consider how to proceed.  In the most recent one where they tried to spice things up, the result was that the rules got even more nebulous and hard to follow (though I commend the intent behind it all!).  Another part of this is the arena echo system - it's bad enough when just one person is in there, but when there's whole teams of multiple people each especially all covered up with similar masks moving around and doing things, it's really really difficult to follow.

That said, there have been plenty of successful traditional arena events in the past, and I don't see why a gladiator clan with gladiator PC's couldn't just participate in those sorts of events instead - unmasked 1v1 is easy to follow and easy to cheer, both as a participant and spectator.

Your poll lacks a 'sounds great, but I don't think we have the active player numbers to sustain it' option.

I remember when peak time numbers were 50+ players logged in. Now we have half that. I think we should first focus on whatever will bring our active player numbers back up so all 'standard' clans can get the players they need, too.

Quote from: IntuitiveApathy on December 15, 2016, 02:28:17 AM

Quote from: Patuk on December 14, 2016, 08:50:22 PM
Have you been to the bloodball RPT's? They're a clusterfuck both ICly and OOCly. Everyone is free to pursue what they wish, but I don't think this'd interest me very much.

Part of the reason for this is that the bloodball rules are not comprehensive where there's so many situations in a game that even the participants seem to take pause to consider how to proceed.  In the most recent one where they tried to spice things up, the result was that the rules got even more nebulous and hard to follow (though I commend the intent behind it all!).  Another part of this is the arena echo system - it's bad enough when just one person is in there, but when there's whole teams of multiple people each especially all covered up with similar masks moving around and doing things, it's really really difficult to follow.

That said, there have been plenty of successful traditional arena events in the past, and I don't see why a gladiator clan with gladiator PC's couldn't just participate in those sorts of events instead - unmasked 1v1 is easy to follow and easy to cheer, both as a participant and spectator.

THE BLOODBALL RULES ARE PERFECT IN EVERY WAY
(http://i.imgur.com/nRqAMFcg.png)

Also the regular gladiator/bloodball get togethers are fantastic examples of player effort aligning with great staff assistance. If people weren't getting something out of them I figure they'd have stopped by now, right? But for spectators - yeah, I imagine it isn't super fun. All the more reason to join a team!

Quote from: Akaramu on December 15, 2016, 07:04:05 AM
Your poll lacks a 'sounds great, but I don't think we have the active player numbers to sustain it' option.

I remember when peak time numbers were 50+ players logged in. Now we have half that. I think we should first focus on whatever will bring our active player numbers back up so all 'standard' clans can get the players they need, too.

I logged in at midnight server time last night and saw 42 people on.  I don't think I agree with your player base size assumption there so I didn't consider it as a potential issue.

Quote from: IntuitiveApathy on December 15, 2016, 02:28:17 AM
Another part of this is the arena echo system - it's bad enough when just one person is in there, but when there's whole teams of multiple people each especially all covered up with similar masks moving around and doing things, it's really really difficult to follow.

As someone helpfully pointed out.  Brief Combat when spectating in the Arena can be a life saver.  The double echoes are brutal.  Eliminating 50-75% of them can be a godsend.

Quote from: wizturbo on December 15, 2016, 11:26:25 AM
I logged in at midnight server time last night and saw 42 people on.  I don't think I agree with your player base size assumption there so I didn't consider it as a potential issue.

Hmm. Maybe peak time has shifted by a few hours. 3 AM my time used to be way, way busier than it is now. Those 42 probably would have been 60-70 players 3 years ago.

Then again, since Tuluk is closed maybe the lower numbers don't matter that much.

I keep forgetting that Tuluk is gone.  :P

Quote from: Akaramu on December 15, 2016, 11:40:23 AM
Hmm. Maybe peak time has shifted by a few hours. 3 AM my time used to be way, way busier than it is now.

I think Peak time has shifted from 8-10pm US East Cost to 8-10pm US West Coast over the last couple of years.

Quote from: whitt on December 15, 2016, 11:48:08 AM

Quote from: Akaramu on December 15, 2016, 11:40:23 AM
Hmm. Maybe peak time has shifted by a few hours. 3 AM my time used to be way, way busier than it is now.

I think Peak time has shifted from 8-10pm US East Cost to 8-10pm US West Coast over the last couple of years.

It does seem that way to me as well.

Quote from: Rathustra on December 15, 2016, 08:56:39 AM
THE BLOODBALL RULES ARE PERFECT IN EVERY WAY
(http://i.imgur.com/nRqAMFcg.png)

Also the regular gladiator/bloodball get togethers are fantastic examples of player effort aligning with great staff assistance. If people weren't getting something out of them I figure they'd have stopped by now, right? But for spectators - yeah, I imagine it isn't super fun. All the more reason to join a team!

I too have a -very- dificult time actually following the action on the sands, and have to just pretend in my RP that I know what's going on.  The repeated echoes are too much to follow.

Quote from: 650Booger on December 15, 2016, 03:26:01 PM

Quote from: Rathustra on December 15, 2016, 08:56:39 AM
THE BLOODBALL RULES ARE PERFECT IN EVERY WAY
(http://i.imgur.com/nRqAMFcg.png)

Also the regular gladiator/bloodball get togethers are fantastic examples of player effort aligning with great staff assistance. If people weren't getting something out of them I figure they'd have stopped by now, right? But for spectators - yeah, I imagine it isn't super fun. All the more reason to join a team!

I too have a -very- dificult time actually following the action on the sands, and have to just pretend in my RP that I know what's going on.  The repeated echoes are too much to follow.

Is this more to do with the way combat works in Armageddon, the masks or just how any sort of frantic activity would play out with our codebase?

The double echo of the spectator stands makes it the most difficult, that'd be priority #1 I'd say.


Past that, its just the "what is a chraden" and "so they moved east... to the.. 2nd..?" and its a bit difficult to understand, thematically.

Most of us are used to how the combat comes up, but when it doubles up, it can get very confusing.

Pretty much how any sort of frantic activity plays out.  It's just amplified by the echoes in the Arena.  At big combat RPT's I pretty much never know what's going on either, which is probably why I avoid leading them these days.  Way too stressful, especially when innocent bystanders die to code quirkiness.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but if combat moved at 50% of the rate it does now I wouldn't complain at all.  Hell, I might even prefer 25% speed, but I wouldn't know until I tried it on for size first.

Quote from: wizturbo on December 15, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old, but if combat moved at 50% of the rate it does now I wouldn't complain at all.  Hell, I might even prefer 25% speed, but I wouldn't know until I tried it on for size first.

Hell yes. More time to emote instead of frantically hovering over the flee or disengage buttons (if there were buttons).

Maybe with an option to speed up battles that are taking really, really long.

All three, really: masks, doubling echos, speed.

But, as mother says, it doesn't matter what happens in the Arena event, as long as the family is all there together for it.

I'm 110% behind a Gladiator Clan, whatever manifestation. 

Re: population count)  I'm of the camp who thinks that having more options inspires more creative RP, even if there are only 10 players online.  Done right, I can see a Wyverns working out just fine. 

My first characters really wanted to be Wyverns, but it closed just after I joined.

Quote from: nauta on December 15, 2016, 04:17:22 PM
Re: population count)  I'm of the camp who thinks that having more options inspires more creative RP, even if there are only 10 players online.  Done right, I can see a Wyverns working out just fine. 

I think it could work as a sort of 'rotating' clan opening with role calls whenever Gladiators open up. Kind of like Tor / Fale or the Tan Muark were opened and closed over the years.

Quote from: Rathustra on December 15, 2016, 03:45:13 PM

Is this more to do with the way combat works in Armageddon, the masks or just how any sort of frantic activity would play out with our codebase?

I think it's all three of these.  and above all the double echoes (this may be unavoidable with current code).

I'm sure it's an amazing experience as a player though.

What if we could just vastly simplify the echoes that are produced.  limit them to movements, player emotes, critical hits, and deaths? 

Quote from: Akaramu on December 15, 2016, 04:26:08 PM

Quote from: nauta on December 15, 2016, 04:17:22 PM
Re: population count)  I'm of the camp who thinks that having more options inspires more creative RP, even if there are only 10 players online.  Done right, I can see a Wyverns working out just fine. 

I think it could work as a sort of 'rotating' clan opening with role calls whenever Gladiators open up. Kind of like Tor / Fale or the Tan Muark were opened and closed over the years.

I like the idea of it being the Wyverns, or a subset of them. But with the understanding that *unlike how it seems Oash and gemmed work* it is basically the prerogative of the players of nobles in Borsail whether or not they want to fill out that flank/wing/whatever of the clan.

Then, I dislike the idea that all noble employees must be aides (or double as one), but for some reason only for Oash that is not the case. A while back I had a pc who tried to join Fale to be just a bard, and the person who hired them was fine with it. Went to enroll at the Atrium (because instrument lessons) and was basically told that no, you have to double as an aide, and follow all this aide training course stuff too. But being the one group in Allanak that does formal instrument lessons, and with hiring caps and allocation of slots for underlings for noble pcs... >.>

I like the idea of a subset of the Noble Houses that offers Commoner employment. Oash's happens to double as 'Magickers', but the other ones could be Gladiators for Borsail, and Bards/Troupes for Fale.

I do like playing Aides, but I can see what Aruven is talking about for sure. I don't think there really is a 'hiring cap' for Nobles when it comes to paying people to do odd jobs. So they aren't on payroll, but they might be 'working' for that Noble. Akin to the Partisan system in Tuluk, but less official.

Quote from: Rathustra on December 15, 2016, 03:45:13 PM

Quote from: 650Booger on December 15, 2016, 03:26:01 PM

Quote from: Rathustra on December 15, 2016, 08:56:39 AM
THE BLOODBALL RULES ARE PERFECT IN EVERY WAY
(http://i.imgur.com/nRqAMFcg.png)

Also the regular gladiator/bloodball get togethers are fantastic examples of player effort aligning with great staff assistance. If people weren't getting something out of them I figure they'd have stopped by now, right? But for spectators - yeah, I imagine it isn't super fun. All the more reason to join a team!

I too have a -very- dificult time actually following the action on the sands, and have to just pretend in my RP that I know what's going on.  The repeated echoes are too much to follow.

Is this more to do with the way combat works in Armageddon, the masks or just how any sort of frantic activity would play out with our codebase?

I don't mean to disparage Bloodball as an event - I think it's great that people have taken it upon themselves to start something new and put on an event for us all, and I actually look forward to them.  So thank you to everyone that puts these together! 

That said, I think there's certainly room for improvement. 
(I do recognize there can only be so much done with the current code, so some of the suggestions below may not be achievable.)

Speaking as a spectator:

• The arena room names are difficult to make heads or tails of - instead of the chradens and platforms and things, maybe simple location relative room titles such as Arena Corner NW, Arena Centre East or something along those lines, would work better.


• There's also no real way to see who has the ball on demand, or what is going on with the goals (are they hurt, uninjured, unconscious, etc?) which is pretty important if you're trying to figure out how the match is going.  If there was either someone announcing on a frequent play-by-play sort of basis (though that would require someone that could watch and make sense of the ongoings) or if there were some automatic echos or something, that would be helpful I think to help track that stuff.


• I get the idea behind the masks, but maybe having one team use masks while the other team uses something else entirely (hoods?  facewraps?  etc) would be helpful to be able to make sense of what team is doing what as well.  It'd be nice to be able to see which player is which too, since it'd be great to know who does well and be able to cheer for your favourite.  Ideally, I'd just rather not see masks or whatever at all, since as well..

Speaking as a participant:

• The masks make it difficult to do what you want to do.  Let's say I want to go attack the guy with the ball.  But in actual coded commands, it's actually really quite difficult to pick out the right target at any given time, which is a OOC/code problem rather than an IC problem: my character can see who has the ball as an immediate situational thing, but I as a player can't easily parse the code to translate that into coded targets.  Typically tried to solve that problem by looking at 1.(team)mask, 2., etc but if people have moved around then that all goes out the window again.  Also imagine that you're trying to see who has the ball in their inventory as that scrolls by, when combat and movement and all the echos are also scrolling by.  It's slightly easier if the player recognizes mdescs/equipment of opponents and can link it to OOC remembrance of character names to use as keywords, but it's still not solving the root of the problem, and given that it's frantic enough to actually try to do what you're trying to do in the first place, trying to further enter commands to even figure out how to do that is just way too much.


• As also mentioned, the rules could use some tweaking and clarification as well, to avoid situations where people don't really know what to do.  Certain rules may not jive well with the code either - for instance, requiring that the ball be thrown but not being able to melee the goal, which doesn't work with the mercy toggle once the goal is unconscious.


• It would be nice if there was some kind of modifier inherent to the Bloodball item itself to being disarmed, since aside from waiting for it to be thrown, there's really no way to get it out of a combatant's hands - and there's really no way to beat a combatant that has the Bloodball either, given the very large coded disadvantage you have as an unarmed person trying to fight an armed person.  Either that or somehow have it mitigate that unarmed vs. armed disadvantage, so there's some chance that the ball carrier can be taken down by the other team.  If everyone's armed instead it would solve that problem, and further the ball carrier would potentially be disadvantaged especially if they're not trained in bludgeoning weapons/two-handed style.  The ball carrier being at a disadvantage is ideal IMO, except that if everyone's armed, everything suddenly becomes much more dangerous and there's far greater chance of PC death (which is against the rules!), and it would also quicken the matches to such an extent to where they may not be as entertaining as well.

And overall, the doubling of the echos inherent to the arena floor makes life that much more difficult for both spectators and participants alike, and this is from the point of view of someone that's participated in quite a few HRPT spamfests in the past.

Some way to slow combat down a bit in the arena would also be great.. I once suggested a time slip type thing for HRPTs, but pie-in-the-sky given code and all that.

My only gripe about bloodball matches is the masks.

If I'm there to cheer on someone specific, there's a good chance I should be able to pick out who they are. Since I can't pick out who I'm there to cheer on, I'm not as invested. The rest of it's all aces, from the spectator perspective. For me at least.

I agree. I could follow it without too much straining before the masks were used.

Not a fan of the masks either.  They have a time and a place, but shouldn't be the norm in my opinion.

Ive never watched a bloodball game, but I have participated in everyone for the last few months and speaking from experience on the field itself, The biggest issues have been pointed out, the massive debuffs given by being unarmed is ridiculous, all three of one team can be spam disarming the ball guy to literally zero effect because of it. Especially since most of the people who play are fairly long lived pcs (relative to some of course)

Next issue I have had a few times is punching my own team, legit a huge ooc hinderance because of the masks. My pc has no interest in punching them, I think as someone said Hoods or scarves instead of two masks. That will go a llooooooooooooong way to making it easier. For both groups of people.

As for the chadren issue,I have been on the arena floor enough times to remember them all, but I can see how it would be an issue for others, maybe rename them the NW chadren etc. Instead of first second third etc.

The rules of bloodball can be quite confusing, and often I think it devolves into rough circle for a good ten minutes followed by an elf dying. That about sums it up I think.

I think there's a way to make the masks not cover your sdesc, but still be 'on', so PCs can reference it in their emotes?

Make them helmets instead.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 16, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
Make them helmets instead.

I forget, but I think this makes them mdesc hiding rather than not hiding at all. At least I remember the mdesc hiding masks hid your mdesc when you wore them on your head. I forget if that's a 'code' thing or just involved with those particular masks.

If there's an item that hides Mdescs in game right now then this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I've never seen a bloodbowl game so I don't know the precise source of the complaint, but can definitely second the notion that a crowd of people all with the same sdesc (whether it be masks or hoods-up) is a confusing thing to follow. Especially in the Arena where it's difficult to keep track of where someone is.

Another thing about the arena (IIRC): you can't 'look' at the individuals on the arena floor.

This would help in some cases more than masked bloodball games. For instance, you could look at the gladiator and see what weapons they have or gear and then comment on it.  It of course also helps distinguish different players on the same team.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 16, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
If there's an item that hides Mdescs in game right now then this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I've never seen a bloodbowl game so I don't know the precise source of the complaint, but can definitely second the notion that a crowd of people all with the same sdesc (whether it be masks or hoods-up) is a confusing thing to follow. Especially in the Arena where it's difficult to keep track of where someone is.

I don't think there are mdesc hiding masks currently in the game -- But when there were, they would hide your mdesc by being worn on the head. Just sayin'. Dunno if that happens with all masks if you make them wearable on the had, or if it's a particular javascript program, or what.

Quote from: Reiloth on December 16, 2016, 02:36:51 PM

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 16, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
If there's an item that hides Mdescs in game right now then this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I've never seen a bloodbowl game so I don't know the precise source of the complaint, but can definitely second the notion that a crowd of people all with the same sdesc (whether it be masks or hoods-up) is a confusing thing to follow. Especially in the Arena where it's difficult to keep track of where someone is.

I don't think there are mdesc hiding masks currently in the game -- But when there were, they would hide your mdesc by being worn on the head. Just sayin'. Dunno if that happens with all masks if you make them wearable on the had, or if it's a particular javascript program, or what.

Hmm. I guess people want to be anonymous in these games, then?

I'm assuming that each team currently gets the same mask. What if instead of a singular "blue mask" object, you instead had a series of color-coded masks for each team: a blue gortok mask, a blue hawk mask, a blue goudra mask, etc. Double them up for the "red" team (or however these games are divided). Now you have people who are both anonymous AND distinct from one another.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 16, 2016, 02:40:12 PM

Quote from: Reiloth on December 16, 2016, 02:36:51 PM

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 16, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
If there's an item that hides Mdescs in game right now then this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I've never seen a bloodbowl game so I don't know the precise source of the complaint, but can definitely second the notion that a crowd of people all with the same sdesc (whether it be masks or hoods-up) is a confusing thing to follow. Especially in the Arena where it's difficult to keep track of where someone is.

I don't think there are mdesc hiding masks currently in the game -- But when there were, they would hide your mdesc by being worn on the head. Just sayin'. Dunno if that happens with all masks if you make them wearable on the had, or if it's a particular javascript program, or what.

Hmm. I guess people want to be anonymous in these games, then?

I'm assuming that each team currently gets the same mask. What if instead of a singular "blue mask" object, you instead had a series of color-coded masks for each team: a blue gortok mask, a blue hawk mask, a blue goudra mask, etc. Double them up for the "red" team (or however these games are divided). Now you have people who are both anonymous AND distinct from one another.

HMMMMM. I'm almost wondering if the new Ascii changes Nathvaan coded could be used for the Bloodball games?

So certain masks are coded 'Team Red' and others are 'Team Blue' or whatever.

(I also haven't seen a Bloodball game, i'm just speculating!)

The masks are intended to make it easier for players to identify team-mates on the fly, especially in pick-up games. Also they look badass. Though perhaps not when scrolling your prompt.

Quote from: Rathustra on December 16, 2016, 03:17:28 PM
The masks are intended to make it easier for players to identify team-mates on the fly, especially in pick-up games. Also they look badass. Though perhaps not when scrolling your prompt.

They definitely make it hard to follow as a spectator, though.  Here's an idea: Could you use the 'he is carrying a large bag' code to accomplish this?  Give the red team red bags filled with rocks and the blue team blue bags filled with rocks, then you could see the sdesc and know which team they are on.  Plus, you'd get your fails in!


A black-haired rough-looking male is standing here.
- he is carrying a large red bag.


Guys, quick question about the masks. Should we just lose them entirely? Or would adding a really clear and unique keyword as the first word in the short description work?

ie A yellow insectile half mask
A red, long-tongued, beast-faced half-mask

Templar robe code! That would be awesome and the best of both worlds.

Just to expand. A mask (or robe) that adds "in a Gorton mask" to the end of an sdesc would let spectators follow gladiators while make it easy for participants to target the other side.

Quote from: John on December 16, 2016, 10:53:41 PM
Just to expand. A mask (or robe) that adds "in a Gorton mask" to the end of an sdesc would let spectators follow gladiators while make it easy for participants to target the other side.

This would be great!

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 16, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
If there's an item that hides Mdescs in game right now then this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I've never seen a bloodbowl game so I don't know the precise source of the complaint, but can definitely second the notion that a crowd of people all with the same sdesc (whether it be masks or hoods-up) is a confusing thing to follow. Especially in the Arena where it's difficult to keep track of where someone is.

It's like a big battle of Kuraci vs gith.

I assume its pretty terrible to watch. Much fun to play though.

Re:  Bloodball

1.  I like it best when we're allowed to have sparring weapons so that it is possible to disarm the ball carrier and also so you can somewhat defend against that brutal bludgeoning ball.
2.  Staff/nobles are still tweaking the rules I guess.  Last game there was a lot of confusion but it was on purpose I think!  There were inequities built in, attached to luck.  Every game there's different rules though.
3.  What if each team wore the cloaks, say one in green and the other blue, whatever.  Would it be better than masks for the spectators?  Still wouldn't help with knowing who has the ball. 
4.  Maybe you put your hood down when you have the ball?  I bet people would forget, because there is a lot going on.  Crowd could yell about it though.
5.  I think renaming the rooms in the arena is a great idea.
6.  The double echo, with 4-6 people moving around separate from each other, how can that be fixed?  I doubt it can easily.  Sure would be nice.

Re: OP -
People talk a lot on the GDB about wanting gladiators but it's been tried many times.  People don't sign up in the numbers you'd think they would by what you read.  Lavinia was the most successful, and if it's to be pursued I think something developing her ideas would be a good way to proceed.  But she still had trouble getting people to show up after the novelty wore off.  Houses start telling their hunters/fighters they can't participate because really, what's in it for them?  We're missing something still.  But I feel like we might be on the right track.

Every gladiator event should have an award paid out to each of the winning participants and/or their handlers.  Pouch of coins. If they are a slave participant, the owner gets the purse.  If they are currently a House employee, the House gets a taste.  Half?  Quarter?  One part in eight?  Depends on how good your bargaining position is.  Losers (and/or their handlers) should get some ridiculously small fraction of the winners' take. 

An individual Noble who privately sponsors particular gladiators can earn income from their victories.  That might encourage some of the less horrifically affluent of the Nobility to keep a profitable stable of gladiators.  It is considered a bit petty to privately sponsor gladiators instead of giving all the glory (and profit) to your House, but hard choices must be made to fund the schemes.

Generally commoners cannot sponsor gladiators unless they are running a Templarate-licensed, approved gladiator stable. There might be a few small gladiator companies, buying slaves and hiring trainers, but it is a hard career.  It should work like the MMH procedure if a player wanted to give it a go.  Expect the Templarate to crush any stable which does anything that is worrisome, suspicious or annoying or who doesn't lose a match when and how the Great Lady Templar insists.

This source of award revenue from winning Gladiator events should come from the virtual world into the playerbase.  It should be possible to adjust it to be a hard struggle for a new PC to get by as a nobody gladiator, but not too much worse than dung scrapping.  It should eventually provide a better-than-a-peon living in the mid-range and to allow for the possibility of comfortable living at very rare highest end.   

It is in the interest of great Houses to regularly have their gladiators kick-serious butt and earn them bragging rights about the city.   The Powers that Be want people to be excited by gladiator and blood sports in the Arena.  They want to keep the unwashed rabble suitably pacified and entertained.

To run this, staff would have to set some guidelines to PCs who they want to be able to initiate and pay out for these common events and to make the funds easily tracked and available.

Or... you know... I could just app a Borsail bad-ass bastard or a sleazy, aspiring gladiator stable mistress myself.

Fantastic post, Seeker.

I'd love to see infrastructure put in to facilitate an ongoing gladiator culture.  As it stands, the gladiator culture in-game has always been more of an undercurrent gameplay-wise (the somewhat more frequent bloodball events are starting to change this), but IC'ly, I've always had the impression it was more prominent in the everyday life of a citizen in a city-state.  I assume that the games are a large part of entertaining and distracting the masses from their dirty, hard, desperate lives under the burning sun as they were IRL, and would love to see everyday gameplay line up with that.  As has been pointed out, things have been tried before to get a constant thing going, but without proper incentive, regular PC's are hesitant to risk their lives in the Arena.  With proper incentive, that could change.  As an alternative, a separate gladiator clan which allows players secondary gladiator characters, whether as one-offs or otherwise, would help solve that problem either as it's own independent solution, or as mechanism to enhance what the regular PC's have going.

As Seeker pointed out, it could open a new aspect of play and conflict for the entire playerbase.  If you've never watched the show =Spartacus: Blood and Sand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus_(TV_series)), aside from the 300-type sensationalism, I think it's a decent depiction of Arena life in general.  There's a lot going on behind the scenes of every Arena spectacle.  From the gladiator stables, how they work as a business: recruiting, training, slavery and competition with other stables; to the politics that surround them: stable owners jostling for political clout and politicians dictating schemes for their own glory; and all the betrayal, murder and corruption that results from all of this.

Gladiator culture really just screams Zalanthas from the Arena sands, and I'd love to see it more at the forefront.

Quote from: Renenutet on December 16, 2016, 06:14:52 PM
Guys, quick question about the masks. Should we just lose them entirely? Or would adding a really clear and unique keyword as the first word in the short description work?

ie A yellow insectile half mask
A red, long-tongued, beast-faced half-mask

I like the idea put forward about using the templar robe code.

ie: the tall, muscular d00d in a black, twisted hawk mask or something? Then you get masks but can also follow who you're cheering on.

That isn't how the templar-robe code works, unfortunately. The templar-robe code swaps out the last word of the sdesc for "templar" (hence 'the man with no nose' becoming 'the man with no templar').

As the particular robes are implemented yes. Is that the limitation of how the script can be used? Probably not. Given the way that you become 'a <size> figure in <item>' when you have on a mask/cloak with the hood up. I'm imagining something that is a cross of the two '(sdesc) in <item>'.

Currently the Templar robe code replaces 1 word with 1 word. Ideally it should have minimal effort to replace 1 word with multiple words. E.g. the short hairy man becomes the short hairy insect-masked gladiator .

That'd be simpler, and would still work. :D I was imagining a version of it where you might still be able to wear the mask without man/woman at the end, or be able to see if it's a dwarf vs a man/woman, but honestly either would be an improvement on the current. I like the concept of the masks, it's the effect of making it impossible to see who is who that sucks for me as an onlooker. As someone else put it, like watching a unit of kuraci duncloaks with hoods up taking on gith. Impossible to follow.