I can't decide.  First allow me to explain the scenario.  My character was sitting in a fairly crowded tavern.  My sword was stolen from me in the blink of an eye.  Of course I knew who took it but I held back and roleplayed it out and decided that I wouldn't be able to determine who it was amongst all the commotion.  However at the time this large weapon(which was sheathed in my belt) was stolen, I was sitting down at a bar with my cloak draped over it.  Then all of a sudden, WHAMO, its gone just like that.  My verdict,  Lame.  What are your thoughts just out of curiosity.

Step up. even if a twink doesnt rp it out, doesn't mean you cant

emote hand shifts to her belt
Think What the krath
emote looks down

Say What the fekking krath!
look
emote looks around

if its a big weapon, you figure you know who took it, you can claim you see them holding the sword...kinda hard to see....
why not?

then go no holds barred

I think I'll have to go with 'Not.'

Technically, if you have your cloak on, your weapons would probably always be beneath it, which is why they aren't viewable with look.  I think waiting until you were sitting down somewhere, that was probably the best time RP wise to steal it from you, considering the chair/stool was supporting your and the swords weights and you were not.  Also, the sword was probably at rest as it hung from your belt.  Therefore, it would probably be harder for your character to notice it was gone rather than if you were walking around and suddenly felt a great deal lighter and would notice that the weapon was no longer hitting your leg as you walked.

That isn't to say I'm not sympathetic

I remember one elf years ago, who stood out like a sore thumb in a certain tavern because his face was covered by some black leather veil or some sort of mask and was walking back and forth in and out of the room who somehow managed to relieve my character of 4 knives located in various sheathes about his body as he sat a table with no less than two guards and multiple people eyeing the odd looking elf.

It was satisfying when the knives found their way back, heh.  At least if the weapon was very identifiable, you can take pleasure in getting it back if you're lucky or if you have the right resources.  :twisted:

Also, if this was in Tuluk, perhaps your character might appreciate the way it was artfully stolen by the thief, although he might still be a little miffed.  Just my opinions and suggestions though.

If this was a headwrap that hid the main desc then it was stolen from me by someone after I took it off and immediately emoted wrapping it around my hand. No less than two seconds later I type 'inv' and its missing. Pissed me off.

Well... Thievery is complicated. Code wise you can pretty much take anything provided your skill is good enough (from what I've seen). This means that as a Thief (more appropriately, pickpocket) you need to figure out WHAT is appropriate to steal and WHO is appropriate to steal from. Now, I suppose if you've been a thief for awhile and you're pretty damned slick with your fingers you might consider slipping up around the backside of a noble and trying to lift a few precious items off of their person. The problem is, the guards. If there's just one, its a plausable thing that he's facing one direction. If there's two though, they're probably each facing a different way which means effectively any area of approach is covered concerning the target. Its one of those times that realistically you shouldn't try and steal from someone who's sitting down without getting creative. Just no real way to get past the guards standing there watching the ways to get to the table.

Of course you could always get super-cool and suave and just strike up a conversation with the target, buy them a drink and then lift a few things from them without them even noticing (that way'd be hella cool).

Also, its important that as the victim of thievery you never get stupid about it. Just relax, let it go. RP things out. I remember once some noble did something fantastic when someone stole from him, he called a templar who went ahead and started searching people (PCs and NPCs) in the tavern I was in. It was great fun for everyone there even though the gear stolen was never recovered because the thief fled.

In a crowded tavern you're likely to be bumped and jostled all the time by VNPCs, even when sitting at the bar.  I'd think that anyone who visits a tavern fairly often wouldn't think twice about it, since it'd be such a common contact.  During those times is when the master pickpocket strikes, though, and thus almost anything on your person is subject to be lifted without you noticing.

In fact, fairly recently I saw a show on TV where this 'magician' managed to steal a man's wallet, watch, and NECKTIE all while it was just the two of them standing there and talking.  Thats just the works of one HUMAN master thief/artist... imagine the tricks a whole RACE of them could come up with.

Quote from: "Marauder Moe"In a crowded tavern you're likely to be bumped and jostled all the time by VNPCs, even when sitting at the bar.  I'd think that anyone who visits a tavern fairly often wouldn't think twice about it, since it'd be such a common contact.  During those times is when the master pickpocket strikes, though, and thus almost anything on your person is subject to be lifted without you noticing.

Oh without a doubt, I was more or less just talking about when someone is actively being guarded by more than one person. The guards, I imagine, would keep people from jostling their ward or really going too near without permission. They are, after all, hired muscle.  

Oh well, I wasn't talking about the case in which the victim has guards.  Speaking of that though, I always figured that guards would intercept a pickpocket attempt if they could see it.  If not, I suppose that'd be a good idea.

I think I remember seeing that the possibility of your guards intercepting a theft attempt was introduced fairly recently? Maybe somebody else could give more info or correct me if I'm wrong - just seem to remember reading this somewhere and don't have the time now to do a search.

This brings me to another subject.  I had someone tell me once (instruct sort of) that they always removed their weapons, put them in a backpack and closed it, as opposed to sheathing them.  As a fighter-type I found this a little disconcerting.  OOCly I knew that I could readily access my weapon from my backpack and that while in town the chances of me having to pull it out was almost zero.  Putting it in a closed backpack would keep it safe from thieves no doubt.  But ICly I wanted to have my weapon readily available in case trouble started.  For a fighter to hide away a weapon like that seemed wrong.

As a side note, I haven't ever had something stolen from me.  I have seen suspicious characters roaming around from time to time but I for one think that thieves are too uncommon.  Maybe it's just me.  I haven't played a thief but I imagine that a marketplace or crowded (with VNPC's) shop would be a good place to strike.  Everyone is pulling out and handling money.  It would require creative roleplay and having the PC's cognizant of the many VNPC's.  I'm probably like everyone else in that when I see another PC in a shop I always notice them, stopping to talk look at them whatever.  

Ran into a Salarri guard recently that was just standing in the Salarr shop... guarding.  Very cool.  Of course I asked him on weapon selections, etc.  But that's what I'm talking about, except this was a guard and not a thief.  I think the problem is that a thief would have to be extremely patient.  You could sit in there for hours waiting.  Could get boring.

Gar, I think that would be not so good roleplay as well.  "Because it's in a closed container, it can't get stolen.  Yay me."  Granted, OOC I love getting closable/wearable containers...but that doesn't mean that I'm going to put all my worldly belongings in them all the time.  Everyone would be running around naked except their backpack and pouched belt.

Quote from: "spawnloser"Gar, I think that would be not so good roleplay as well.  "Because it's in a closed container, it can't get stolen.  Yay me."  Granted, OOC I love getting closable/wearable containers...but that doesn't mean that I'm going to put all my worldly belongings in them all the time.  Everyone would be running around naked except their backpack and pouched belt.

In the interests of modesty, may I suggest you add a stratigically placed quiver to your list?  Unless your pouched belt has really big, dangly pouches.  Some Templars assume anything you show them is available to be cut off.

AC

Thievery in a tavern at just about any time of day is lame, in my opinion. Unless it's some incredibly small item, or you go through a hell of a lot of effort, there is no chance your action will go unnoticed.

But since people disagree and simply work up peek and steal and walk into the tavern and steal everything they can, here is what I suggest.

1.  Always keep your weapons in a container that can be closed, whether a quiver as AC suggests, or a pack.  Never walk into a tavern with anything in inventory or sheathed in belts or other open locations that you don't want to have stolen.

People are not going to stop twinking steal, so you might as well just make sure you're secure and nobody is going to get an item or a failed attempt off you and thus benefit in any way.

QuoteThievery in a tavern at just about any time of day is lame, in my opinion.

What?? That's EXACTLY the type of environment pickpockets want....a room with lots of loud, drunk people bumping into each other.

gfar...that comment. for a moment I thought it might be a joke but...unlikely.

(I don't want to call twinks eh. realy, fuck that) but for 'twink' you sound far more twink putting things into containers rather than having them stolen in a tavern.
regardless. yes. stealing in a tavern is as likely as anywhere else, and putting a sword in a quiver, backpack, or purse...wtf would anyone do that when they could have a belt or sheathe to put it in. makes no logical ic sense.


and I think AC's comment about a strategically placed quiver was in kind to a man running around naked with everything in his closed container....
exactly the opp...

heh, tha really is a good one though AC

In all fairness, I think I've had one weapon stolen from me, and it was a dagger, that was in Allanak about a year and a half RL ago, and I used to tavern sit in the Gaj for a long time back then. Sure, coins here and there, but one weapon, and as far as I know, one weapon and one other small item.

And yes, using the fact that containers close to prevent thieves from stealing a sword from a container that obviously wouldn't hold it sounds pretty bad. Like when people used to put swords in their belts, and close the belt... well, wouldn't that be the same as sheathing it, just with unfair code support? If you want to catch twinks, I wouldn't recommend twinking yourself, log your tavern sits, and if you feel something was unfairly taken from you, send it into the Mud account with an approximate time and the log. It really does work.

Gah, some of you act like corporate raiders have stolen your IRAs.

Zalanthas is filled with poverty and oppression. People are going to steal. They aren't going to be nice or polite about it. Locking up your weapons in your backpack is garbage. Suck it up. Theft is part of the game world. Play it out.

Sheesh.

Not to mention, in Tuluk, a slick theft is something that could actually be admired.

Sheesh. My character has been stolen from NUMEROUS times by now (a couple times within an RL day once), because she wasn't watching and wasn't paying attention.. you don't hear me complaining. I say, good. If you're sauntering around looking rich, expect to be targeted! The game needs pickpockets and thieves. It is not happy fun land. It's harsh. Why are you all getting so upset over a little nicking from your characters? Not like they're stealing from YOU. It's a game! Play along! ;p

And Dan, I admit I don't know details, but how would those characters have ANY idea that the pickpocket might have been the same person? There are thousands and thousands of VNPCs in the city. It could have been nicked on the streets, in the bar by one of the multitude of VNPCs, as they stopped in a shop to look something over.. anything.

Point taken.

Just for information purpose. If you are a skinny, expect to be treated like a thief. If something is stolen and your in the bar, expect to get blamed with all the other skinnies in the area.

Now just because the character blames your character for the theft, live with it. Everyone in nak and tuluk believe skinnies are thiefs.

I have actually blamed skinnies for most of the bad things that happen to me IC. If more people griped about skinnies stealing things, then the world would be more realistic and have better plots.

Try walking into the bar after logging in and strike up a conversation about how some skinny stole 20 coins wearing the common cloak of the area.

It gives the templars and guards all something to do. And who cares if some poor skinny who did not steal from you gets blamed. That's life.

I mean all you got to do is tell the templars when asked about it. It was a skinny and wearing a cloak. The templars will probably enjoy the good RP and it gives them some motivation for existing. Stopping all them skinnies is one of their main goals to appease the populace.

Of course this is all IMO.

I have to agree that, realistically, a tavern is an IDEAL place to steal.   Pickpockets would look at drunk crowds like ants look at picnics, IMHO.

Quote from: "Dracul"gfar...that comment. for a moment I thought it might be a joke but...unlikely.

(I don't want to call twinks eh. realy, fuck that) but for 'twink' you sound far more twink putting things into containers rather than having them stolen in a tavern.
regardless. yes. stealing in a tavern is as likely as anywhere else, and putting a sword in a quiver, backpack, or purse...wtf would anyone do that when they could have a belt or sheathe to put it in. makes no logical ic sense.

Keeping all your items carefully stored where prying hands can't get to is NOT twinking, Dracul.  You ought to take a few lessons from world travellers on what they do with things like Visas, money, traveller's cheques, credit cards, and other valuables.  Think they let it all hang out in countries notorious for pickpocketing?

Same thing with Zalanthas.  Thievery is common, everybody knows about it, it makes perfect sense to keep everything closed, there isn't anything wrong about it.  This notion, that people who are careful with possessions, almost seems like some incredible form of blackmail - threatening accusations of being a twink, or poor roleplayer, if we don't provide thieves what they want.


As for stealing in a tavern, the assumption that everyone is inebriated is hilariously wrong.  I've seen a handful of failed thefts, and the PC targets were never drunk, not a single one of them.  This assumption or claim falls flat on its face - a fact that only points to the thieves being reckless twinks with instant gratification on their mind, and not a single brain cell among them.  On the other hand, there are probably a lot of smart thieves in the game as well, and I've never seen a single one of them, a testament to the intelligence of the character.

Quote from: "gfair"1. Always keep your weapons in a container that can be closed, whether a quiver as AC suggests, or a pack. Never walk into a tavern with anything in inventory or sheathed in belts or other open locations that you don't want to have stolen.

Quote from: "gfair"Keeping all your items carefully stored where prying hands can't get to is NOT twinking, Dracul. You ought to take a few lessons from world travellers on what they do with things like Visas, money, traveller's cheques, credit cards, and other valuables. Think they let it all hang out in countries notorious for pickpocketing?

Small, valuable things? Yes, go ahead, put them in closed containers where you can keep them safe. Weapons, shields? Putting -them- in closed containers is misusing the code, since realistically, these things aren't fitting -in- the container (Half-giant backpacks aside, and daggers in backpack etc... I'm talking swords, axes and hammers though) they are likely strapped -to- the container, which is realistically nearly the same as sheathing it on your belt, but is codewise not. That's why that is code abuse.

You shouldn't put your shield in your pack?

I've had all my chars who used one do it, but I figured that unless it was a tower shield or large shield, if it fits why not?

I totally see putting your swords or large type weapons in a pack to prevent stealing as being a bit twinkish though...if your the type to use such weapons then most likely you'd want to keep them sheathed somewhere handy.

In every reference to shields I've read about or seen pictures of...

A small shield (human, real life) is at -least- two feet wide by three feet long.
It is also unbendable, meaning, you can't just fold it up and stuff it in a backpack.

There are smaller protective devices similar to shields, that are closer to 1.5 feet wide by 2 feet long, and those aren't bendable either.

I submit, therefore, that it is twinkish to put a shield in a backpack.

I submit also that it is twinkish to try and stuff a longsword in a backpack as well. Especially since we know there exists no code for containers whereby they tear and everything falls out of them.

An axe? Maybe if it was a short-handled one, I guess I can imagine that, since campers often have small axes and they can definitely fit in a pack.

But anything more than a foot or two long and you're crossing the line between questionable realism and hogwash.

The above is my opinion, and does not necessarily reflect any statement of right or wrong.