In the help file it says that elves in general are prone to traveling, it also says that no elf would use a mount. Desert elves can run long distances for travel so they don't need mounts do city elves do the same thing or do they just not travel?
City elves get the sandcloth on and walk, presumably sticking to roads when possible.
Slowly.
A much debated topic.
n;n;n;n;n;n;e;e;e;e;rest
5 MINUTES LATER.
stand;e;e;n;n;n;n;n;wear sunslits;n;n;rest
5 MINUTES LATER.
rinse and repeat.
I would suggest that city elves are not prone to traveling.
Yeaaah. Traveling on foot never works out for me. You need pretty much all your energy when the time comes to flee and run.
Quote from: Maso on June 27, 2012, 10:08:45 PM
A much debated topic.
Not really. They either go on foot or they don't travel at all.
thats kinda what I was thinking, there are some strips of game with high concentrations of critters but spread out over largish areas (6-10 rooms) so if you wandered through one of those areas on foot and had to flee you could be seriously screwed in very short order. Which is pretty much why I asked.
So basically city elves try not to travel outside the city much, if they have to it could be assumed they'd travel in groups and stick to roads and a tent is your friend then.
Thanks.
Quote from: Ender on June 27, 2012, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Maso on June 27, 2012, 10:08:45 PM
A much debated topic.
Not really. They either go on foot or they don't travel at all.
I've seen a few heated debates over the years about the 'unfairness' of it and blah blah blah.
Elf A hires elf B to kill human D who lives across the entire known.
Elf B kills the loved mate of human C, allows himself be caught by the militia and under interrogation of coin and bad poetry claims he saw human D kill the mate of Human C.
Human C goes across the entire known and kills human D.
In other words ... Elf B just traveled across the entire known and killed human D, then he came back and got paid by elf A.
Quote from: Dar on June 27, 2012, 10:57:44 PM
Elf A hires elf B to kill human D who lives across the entire known.
Elf B kills the loved mate of human C, allows himself be caught by the militia and under interrogation of coin and bad poetry claims he saw human D kill the mate of Human C.
Human C goes across the entire known and kills human D.
In other words ... Elf B just traveled across the entire known and killed human D, then he came back and got paid by elf A.
So -that's- how you play an elf.
On a not so related note, if City elves got desert run from sub-guilds like outdoors-man and grebber, it would probably make city elves as popular as humans in the game.
Quote from: Blur on June 27, 2012, 11:37:02 PM
On a not so related note, if City elves got desert run from sub-guilds like outdoors-man and grebber, it would probably make city elves as popular as humans in the game.
That would no longer be a city elf then... there's a reason why you can't pick Liur's or Red Storm as a city elf in Hall of Kings...
No sane city elf would ever travel outside of the city walls on their own. If they did, it would be in a caravan with his own tribe, in very large and well defended groups of elves.
Unfortunately, the number of players we have doesn't allow for such caravans to be formed, not in the numbers that would be realistic for an elf, anyway.
That's why I propose that any city elf who decides to leave the city and sticks to the road should be turned into "A group of well-organized elves" and have their stats reflect such group of people for as long as they stay on a road.
and city elves really can't pick Red Storm as a starting area in the Hall of Kings? Weird..
Well....
Any c-elf that leaves the gates is a filthy 'gicker!!!!!
Rawr....rabbble....rabble *pitchforks and torches*
Quote from: Malken on June 28, 2012, 12:17:39 AM
That's why I propose that any city elf who decides to leave the city and sticks to the road should be turned into "A group of well-organized elves" and have their stats reflect such group of people for as long as they stay on a road.
This is a joke right? I'm not trying to be a dick, but honestly it's a joke right? There are a few situations where you might get thrown out of a city/etc. and it doesn't feel fair to give them some coded advantage that may not be IC.
Yes it was a joke.
Why leave the safe walls of the city? Why leave your tribe?
I'd think that the only elves traveling alone are those orphans without a tribe that are seeking one. Even then, they'd probably con someone into helping or escorting, no?
If you aren't playing a city-elf in the Akai or the Jaxa Pah, you might as well store and reroll as a human. Tribeless/virtual tribe city-elf is just about the least rewarding/interesting role in the game, unless you're only interested in maximum pickpocket griefing ability.
Umm... I don't think city elves are meant to go outside the walls, which is why they're coded that way. They're pretty much contented to stay inside and scheme/thieve/build connections/whatever ninja thing they do/etc.
City elves sometimes have very valid reasons to go outside the walls.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 28, 2012, 03:04:29 AM
If you aren't playing a city-elf in the Akai or the Jaxa Pah, you might as well store and reroll as a human. Tribeless/virtual tribe city-elf is just about the least rewarding/interesting role in the game, unless you're only interested in maximum pickpocket griefing ability.
Grabbing some family can mitigate this.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 28, 2012, 03:04:29 AM
If you aren't playing a city-elf in the Akai or the Jaxa Pah, you might as well store and reroll as a human. Tribeless/virtual tribe city-elf is just about the least rewarding/interesting role in the game, unless you're only interested in maximum pickpocket griefing ability.
What if finding a tribe to belonged to was, to an elf, like a dwarf focus, a quest for the holy grail, if you will. Would that warrant a city elf to leave?
There is only one kind of elf who wishes to join a tribe, and it is called a 'breed'.
Quote from: Patuk on June 28, 2012, 08:29:21 AM
There is only one kind of elf who wishes to join a tribe, and it is called a 'breed'.
In case it isn't clear (or in case you are serious), both city-elf tribes that are staff-supported/coded do receive new numbers from outsiders if they choose to do so.
City elves can move from city-state to city-state. Just because they are comfortable within the gates doesn't mean they will not travel if they have to. They can use mounts to pack things and carry it with them. Most of the times they will generally prepare long in advance for such a thing if they have the intentions. Bringing a tent, five skins of water, food supply, a pair of guards. Even a tribeless elf can put people through tests and a trip between city states with a relative strange elf would be a major test. A tribeless elf is far from boring and uninteresting...all the things you can make others do to prove some kind of trust. That is what an elf is about anyways.
I would guess a lot of the people in here with strong opinions on elves... tribeless elves are boring to play, that elves can't travel outside cities, that tribeless elves can't join tribes (or at least be associated with them closely) and so on... have not ever played a city elf very long.
If your goal is to win the game playing a human over an elf is a better idea. As you can make a human that pretty much is an elf without the stamp of I am a sneaky bastard on their face. But people don't choose elves because they are "better".
If a city elf will travel I think depends on the city elf. But the coded difficulty of it I just think reinforces that they are a city elf. It isn't balanced but again that is not why people play elves.
I love how city elves are. They have their coded advantages -within- the city. Just like d-elves have in the wilderness. It's balanced in a 'thats yours, this is mine sort of way'. And all elves aren't sneaky, persay, but they are definitely conniving and clever. Even a stupid elf has the initiative and capability to fool someone. It's in their blood just like how muls like to beat people's faces into their boots or 'gickers curse anyone who passes them.
Quote from: Harmless on June 28, 2012, 01:47:52 PM
I would guess a lot of the people in here with strong opinions on elves... tribeless elves are boring to play, that elves can't travel outside cities, that tribeless elves can't join tribes (or at least be associated with them closely) and so on... have not ever played a city elf very long.
I've played a ton of city elves. The only ones that mattered were the two that ended up in the Jaxa Pah (or one of its precursors). However, both times, it ended up being as a result of what I believe was a fairly cheesy initiation process that was mainly driven by OOC desire to have Bros. I don't think I would do it that way again. The only way I'd play a city-elf is as a member of one of those groups prior to application, because every time someone has joined from the outside, it's felt cheap and stupid.
I'm just saying: playing an elf without a tribe is like playing a dwarf without a focus. It completely defeats the purpose of the character concept, because you've excised the primary attribute that the race is predicated on. I'm guessing this is part of the reason you can no longer apply for tribeless desert-elves, and I imagine they'd like to do the same for city-elves, but there just isn't a multi-tribal infrastructure in place that would be amenable to that. Currently, if you app a solo city-elf, the only reason to do it is to play a very agile human with the hope of maybe being able to join one of the current tribes (which shouldn't be a reasonable hope at all ICly, but is quite reasonable, given OOC considerations).
City elves will travel to relocate. They walk and if careful can walk pretty easily even though it takes a bit longer. If in serious trouble they would leave their origin, preferably with their tribe. If death was imminent and there was no foreseeable way out of it they would go on their own or with someone close to them.
QuoteFrom Synthesis:
I've played a ton of city elves. The only ones that mattered were the two that ended up in the Jaxa Pah (or one of its precursors). However, both times, it ended up being as a result of what I believe was a fairly cheesy initiation process that was mainly driven by OOC desire to have Bros. I don't think I would do it that way again. The only way I'd play a city-elf is as a member of one of those groups prior to application, because every time someone has joined from the outside, it's felt cheap and stupid.
I do agree with this. I had a hard time standing the initiation process when within a c-elven mindset, even as a leader it was very odd and awkward. I find it hard to believe that a large alliance would want anyone coming in to taint their current standing, let alone become someone of authority within the ranks. But I do find the fun in being a loner finding other loners and testing them and eventually becoming close. Trusting one other elf is one thing, trusting a whole group is another.
I think spec apping elves should be the norm, not the exception, in order to be tribed and thus "real elves," but through what should be a fun and also slow, painful process, it is and should be possible to join tribes as a tribeless elf, of course, with the likely caveat that leadership could never be attained. Both are fun and have merits, but some people in this thread were saying otherwise; it stands that Synthesis' post should be heeded.
Quote from: help elf; proposed changes
Race Elf (Character)
Elves are the second most populous race on the face of Zalanthas,
closely following humans. They are taller than humans--mostly standing
between around 74 and 90 inches in height--and tend to have slim, light
frames. Skin color ranges from nearly black to pale cream colors; hair is
typically dark but shares a similar range of hues. Eye color among elves
is a matter of extraordinary variability. Elven ears are always pointed,
and their eyes always almond-shaped. There are two varieties of elves: city
elves and desert elves. One of these varieties sucks.
City elves are scattered across the settled places of Zalanthas, and
have adapted to live by their wits. True to the nature of elves they also
live by their quick fingers, and are usually avoided by the honest citizens
of other races. Some city elves are members of tribes camped in some run-
down space within its walls; others lead shiftless lives with no ties of
loyalty at all. There is no space for roleplay between the two previous
positions.
Desert elves are nearly always members of desert tribes, and wander
freely about the wastes hunting for what they need. (unless they're Red Fangs,
then they're dead--amirite? lol) They tend to be darker
in skin color than city elves, as well as leaner and more muscular, but
not necessarily stronger. Elves are very long-limbed, and desert elves are
runners by nature, capable of a prolonged run across most types of terrain.
The differences between city elves and desert elves are only the result
of their differing lifestyles--there is only one elven race. All elves suck, though.
Roleplaying:
Descended from (or currently a member of) any one of the many desert
tribes, all elves have a cultural bent towards wandering and thievery.
Among elves, theft that relies on wit or nimble fingers is not a crime,
per se, but more of a test of courage. Highly distrustful of all persons
outside their immediate tribe, elves will often go to great lengths to
test the trustworthiness of any companion. However, they will not go
to great lengths to test the trustworthiness of elves that seek to join
their tribe. That'd be silly and not in-character at all. They also wouldn't
actually trust anyone that was tested in this fashion. That'd be silly, too.
Due to their nature as runners, all elves find the riding of mounts (and usually,
riding in wagons) to be an extremely shameful act--though a few can
forgive the riding habits of other races. In other words, elves will never ride
on mounts or in wagons, as to do so would be to insult one of the few
things they are proud of: their natural speed and endurance on the run.
Because of this, elves suck. It is known.
Notes:
Elves are not strong -- in comparison to most of the other humanoid
races of Zalanthas, they are quite weak. They possess other abilities
to compensate. If you are not happy running a character that is
physically weak, you are advised not to choose this race.
Desert elves are not readily available to new players, but city elves
are. Prioritizing strength last and then asking for a strength boost
usually results in a "dude, you didn't read the helpfile" answer.
let me know if this is good or not
I believe that if an elf has proven itself to the tribe enough to become a member, given the proper time, they could esily rise up to a position of leadership. Elves are not humans who base their culture off of liniage and bloodlines, they are tribals who base their powerstructure off of who is proven and trustworthy.
Quote from: Nyr on June 28, 2012, 03:58:52 PM
Quote from: help elf; proposed changes
All this stuffs that made me LOL.
let me know if this is good or not
Not what I -personally- was trying to get at....but it made me laugh pretty hard.
Elfs suk pee on them
Quote from: bcw81 on June 28, 2012, 04:00:15 PM
I believe that if an elf has proven itself to the tribe enough to become a member, given the proper time, they could esily rise up to a position of leadership. Elves are not humans who base their culture off of liniage and bloodlines, they are tribals who base their powerstructure off of who is proven and trustworthy.
In my experience, dogpiling onto what Synth has said about celves, sometimes it becomes "who has the most useful skills for the tribe"? Which isn't necessarily in line with docs, imo. You shouldn't be making concessions for mastercrafter celves or awesome backstabbers because you "found a way to make them useful". That just seems like a cop-out for getting more bros in your clique.
It ticks me off personally when I see d-elves act like c-elves and vice versa.
Yes, there are many reasons why a d-elf would be in a city and a c-elf outside the walls, but at least act accordingly. The desert isn't the natural habitat of a c-elf and can be damn scary, especially if you go out for the first few times and actually see the beasts of which you've only seen hides before.
Same with the d-elves: some may have to trade and work within the walls, but it doesn't take away the walls feel like a cage and the crowds in taverns may feel threatening.
That's just my point of view, correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 28, 2012, 04:21:29 PM
Quote from: bcw81 on June 28, 2012, 04:00:15 PM
I believe that if an elf has proven itself to the tribe enough to become a member, given the proper time, they could esily rise up to a position of leadership. Elves are not humans who base their culture off of liniage and bloodlines, they are tribals who base their powerstructure off of who is proven and trustworthy.
In my experience, dogpiling onto what Synth has said about celves, sometimes it becomes "who has the most useful skills for the tribe"? Which isn't necessarily in line with docs, imo. You shouldn't be making concessions for mastercrafter celves or awesome backstabbers because you "found a way to make them useful". That just seems like a cop-out for getting more bros in your clique.
Oh no no, I agree fully. I'm just saying that an elf who has proven him/herself and become a member of the tribe shouldn't be held back by that silly roundear thing called a 'bloodline'.
Iiyola: I was playing a delf at one point that was invited to stick it out with a celf tribe while my dude was the "diplomat" of said delf tribe for a premeditated amount of time. I sent in the request via character reports, etc, let whoever needed to know, know. My PC was told to act like being within the walls was the worst thing ever, and TBH at the time I wasn't too invested into the roleplay because I'm sometimes not much of a solo-RPer. Anyway, a couple weeks later Nyr gives me a "wtf?" and does a 180 on whichever random staffer told me it was okay back when it got originally approved.
I kind of expected the idea to be rejected by the staff originally, and was surprised my PC was approved to go ahead and hang out with celves in the city to begin with. Definitely not a gripe on Nyr or whoever, just pointing out that the likelihood of delves being "kosher" within the city is pretty farfetched with some/most delf cultures. Kind of more a find out IC thing, as cultures will vary as will circumstances.
Quote from: Iiyola on June 28, 2012, 04:23:01 PM
It ticks me off personally when I see d-elves act like c-elves and vice versa.
Yes, there are many reasons why a d-elf would be in a city and a c-elf outside the walls, but at least act accordingly. The desert isn't the natural habitat of a c-elf and can be damn scary, especially if you go out for the first few times and actually see the beasts of which you've only seen hides before.
Same with the d-elves: some may have to trade and work within the walls, but it doesn't take away the walls feel like a cage and the crowds in taverns may feel threatening.
That's just my point of view, correct me if I'm wrong.
Desert elf players have documentation for their tribes as well as staff--same with city elf players. If there's an issue, address it with staff, though you can generally assume that there are docs available for them that you do not have access to.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 28, 2012, 04:31:33 PM
Iiyola: I was playing a delf at one point that was invited to stick it out with a celf tribe while my dude was the "diplomat" of said delf tribe for a premeditated amount of time. I sent in the request via character reports, etc, let whoever needed to know, know. My PC was told to act like being within the walls was the worst thing ever, and TBH at the time I wasn't too invested into the roleplay because I'm sometimes not much of a solo-RPer. Anyway, a couple weeks later Nyr gives me a "wtf?" and does a 180 on whichever random staffer told me it was okay back when it got originally approved.
I kind of expected the idea to be rejected by the staff originally, and was surprised my PC was approved to go ahead and hang out with celves in the city to begin with. Definitely not a gripe on Nyr or whoever, just pointing out that the likelihood of delves being "kosher" within the city is pretty farfetched with some/most delf cultures. Kind of more a find out IC thing, as cultures will vary as will circumstances.
If you reference the request in question again you'll see exactly what happened, why it happened, and why it was changed.
Quote from: Nyr on June 28, 2012, 04:45:07 PM
If you reference the request in question again you'll see exactly what happened, why it happened, and why it was changed.
Ah, yeah, I'm aware of why it went down--just didn't want to post specifics on clan docs as to the who-what-where. In retrospect, I'm pretty happy with how the correspondence went considering what happened the previous time someone said "I wasn't doing something in accordance with docs". :D
I would guess that the reference in the helpfile was put in there a long time ago, in reference to an ability I don't think celves have anymore. Or I could be smoking something.
I think it would be easy enough to replicate the delf concept for celves, and with a little building/coding/documentmaking make it most celves are part of a tribe.
Make ten tribes of various socioeconomic status, five for Tuluk, five for Allanak. Give each two rooms, one that is their start room and "tribal gathering place" past a guard so that you can tell that a particular elf is actually in your tribe. In the app process, make a selection of what tribe they are...which in turn dictates their start room. One selection for tribeless. Give them some docs. Presto.
Don't give them the support/rooms/extras that the current coded city elf tribes enjoy. I was actually disappointed when those two were implemented, precisely because you can't simply join them in chargen, get out and go.
The elegant solution is to just pretend elves don't exist.
All someone has to do to see that desert races do, in fact, live in cities, is visit tribal markets. They are the exception, but there are plenty of NPC examples of desert folk living within walls.
Quote from: Clan Des Tine on June 28, 2012, 08:35:04 PM
All someone has to do to see that desert races do, in fact, live in cities, is visit tribal markets. They are the exception, but there are plenty of NPC examples of desert folk living within walls.
Some tribals will go to the cities for commerce. That doesn't mean they permanently live there. This is one part of the world where you have to take the permanent, persistent NPCs with a grain of salt; who is in the tribal market and what is for sale should theoretically ICly shift from week to week, but due to the reality of the game code you have to use some suspension of disbelief.
Celves are my favourite roles to play. Although the methods both JP and Akai Sjir have to bring in elves from outside 'is' a little wonky. Yes, there is an effort put in and it makes it somewhat bearable.
The way current Celf tribes work, there 'is' a need for a little suspension of disbelief to gloss over the whole recruitment part. It's very annoying, but otherwise a fact of life. I still didnt figure out how to do it successfully.
Quote from: Dar on June 29, 2012, 07:16:28 AM
The way current Celf tribes work, there 'is' a need for a little suspension of disbelief to gloss over the whole recruitment part. It's very annoying, but otherwise a fact of life. I still didnt figure out how to do it successfully.
Damn. I was hoping for tips because it's this that puts me off playing them. How do people do it?
My theory is that celves, unlike delves ... finally got sick of new people app'ing in ... immeditately playing dress up with all the best shit in the chests, then running out to get carru'd just before an hour played.
It would be quite cool to be carru'd in the rinth.
Quote from: Booya on June 29, 2012, 07:41:59 AM
Damn. I was hoping for tips because it's this that puts me off playing them. How do people do it?
There's no nice way to put this: most of the people here with advice on "how things should be" with regards to c-elf tribes are wrong. Either they are operating under
old assumptions (docs changed since then), operating under
wrong assumptions (asked staff for feedback, got it, disagreed with it and plowed ahead with their ideas), some combination of the above, or they have taken one experience they had to equal the entirety of both tribes.
Back to the original question... How do c-elves travel? ... Tents.
Knowing your game world helps a lot as well.
The North Road being broken really sucks for C-elf travel, take into account that you will be walking on desert.
C-elves aren't sneaky outside walls. Don't forget that. (I guess, unless you took a sub that would make you sneaky outside... I suppose.)
Climb is your friend. Need a rest? Climb a cliff and find a ledge. (wear ropes/climbing gloves/spikes if climb is unavailable)
Also, c-elves may not ride, but they -can- use animals to pack belongings such as supplies. Just make sure to use a mount that can keep up with you if you have to start running and dodging gith/raptors/scrab what-have you.
But most importantly, rest. Rest, rest rest.. And more rest. City-elf desert travel is probably the most 'realistic' you will ever get of anyone traveling the Known. Where it actually might take you a full game day just to get to Luir's because you have to be very careful and rest constantly to keep your stamina up.
Quote from: Booya on June 29, 2012, 07:41:59 AM
Quote from: Dar on June 29, 2012, 07:16:28 AM
The way current Celf tribes work, there 'is' a need for a little suspension of disbelief to gloss over the whole recruitment part. It's very annoying, but otherwise a fact of life. I still didnt figure out how to do it successfully.
Damn. I was hoping for tips because it's this that puts me off playing them. How do people do it?
Just try it, you may like it.
Spice is a c-elf's friend, hell spice is every ones friend. Get to know your spice, it's not only real nice, it might make one aspect or another a bit more bearable.
(now I'm not certain if docs changed but last time I played a c-elf, Ranger was not an acceptable guild, in keeping with why that would not be, I assume then that Outdoorsman would not make sense as a feasible c-elf subguild.)
With that said.
I would suggest for a venturing c-elf to first explore their travel abilities by pursuing a few close in trips outside the wall, get a feel for how you move in short distances over various terrain. In the north one can even do so without actually leaving the walls.
Try this with out a mount and with a mount, get a feel for how the different mounts travel, (of coarse by mount I mean pack beast.)
See how you recover when resting in various conditions, every elf will be different and or similar.
In the end, what you would have rped in gaining in ic knowledge of yourself with the above preparation would show the higher wisdom of an elf having foresight in planning for things outside their comfort zone/ norm.
And, Hire the Byn, or another group of thuggish roughens that have an established reputation for hiring out as escorts.
Though on foot is the only means an elf travels.
Well, then there's always the c-elves who already have ventured outside the walls in their backgrounds so they didn't HAVE to play it out and know the way to the nearest city flawlessly.
Quote from: Iiyola on June 29, 2012, 02:20:27 PM
Well, then there's always the c-elves who already have ventured outside the walls in their backgrounds so they didn't HAVE to play it out and know the way to the nearest city flawlessly.
Why is that a problem, exactly?
Iin my PERSONAL opinion it takes away the RP experience such as Potaje just described.
My favourite part about desert traveling as an elf, is the full license to "whine" about it. Every single celf of mine who ventured out of the city, spent at least a rl week, grudging, rambling, and whining about the trip. It's very fun.
Quote from: Iiyola on June 29, 2012, 02:25:08 PM
Iin my PERSONAL opinion it takes away the RP experience such as Potaje just described.
It was only a suggestion among many possibilities.
I think some players would not have to, but in keeping with the OP's question, and assuming it is the question of a player unfamiliar with the process of how a c-elf would go about traveling I threw in my 2 sid.
Not to say that some c-elves are well seasoned in life (as players are in the game world) and can be out of the box with a firm understanding of travel needs and aspects already formed in their life, via thier background.
This certainly does not take away rp, but for those unfamiliar I offered my 2 sid as one possibility.
Quote from: Iiyola on June 29, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
Quote from: Booya on June 29, 2012, 07:41:59 AM
Quote from: Dar on June 29, 2012, 07:16:28 AM
The way current Celf tribes work, there 'is' a need for a little suspension of disbelief to gloss over the whole recruitment part. It's very annoying, but otherwise a fact of life. I still didnt figure out how to do it successfully.
Damn. I was hoping for tips because it's this that puts me off playing them. How do people do it?
Just try it, you may like it.
I was talking about the starting off without a tribe and getting recruited bit. I've tried starting in the Jaxa too, and maybe it's my off-peak playtimes but I found it hard and too much bending of IC for OOC reasons. Edit: Also, i'm pretty bad at keeping elfies alive anyway, so they never get past that awkward stage.
As for travelling with one, good tips by people here and they're always useful to have. I've also played, in a couple of different incarnations, around a super city-elf desert whore , so i've seen how it can be done well. :)
*walks in to this thread*
*looks around*
*sighs*
*walks right the fuck back out, having all the answers, and realizing that nothing would be gained from giving them*
At least he didn't look at anyone in particular. They'd have freaked and made a thread about it.
This thread makes me want to play my very first elf ever.
But anyway, I agree with this:
Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 27, 2012, 10:36:04 PM
I would suggest that city elves are not prone to traveling.
Quote from: Malifaxis on June 30, 2012, 11:32:34 AM
*walks in to this thread*
*looks around*
*sighs*
*walks right the fuck back out, having all the answers, and realizing that nothing would be gained from giving them*
Well that's helpful Mr Know-it-all. Sorry you don't deem us worthy, but thanks for your time. Bye!
You're so adorable.
Piss off.
Quote from: Akaramu on June 30, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
This thread makes me want to play my very first elf ever.
But anyway, I agree with this:
Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 27, 2012, 10:36:04 PM
I would suggest that city elves are not prone to traveling.
There is no suggestion of this anywhere in the elven roleplay documentation. The documentation does state: "All elves have a cultural bent toward wandering and thievery."
To the OP: They use their feet. This is made easier by a tent and a pack animal. Everything else surrounding travel is up to you to roleplay in line with your character and the elven way.
C-elves ride each other.
Quote from: Karieith on June 30, 2012, 11:21:42 PM
C-elves ride each other.
Best part of the thread so far.
Yeah. I didn't think it, but walking by yourself seems to be the last thing on anyone's mind.
I imagine city elves use the legs they're so proud of to get from place to place [like anyone else can].
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
That.
Quote from: Iiyola on July 01, 2012, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a half-giant hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
That.
It's always a trust issue.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
Yea, well, anyone can label most any situation that has some risk as dumb.
But hiring out the Byn is one way to include and generate a group of other pc's into a plot, and utilize a coded clan for what its purpose is in game.
Quote from: Potaje on July 01, 2012, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
Yea, well, anyone can label most any situation that has some risk as dumb.
But hiring out the Byn is one way to include and generate a group of other pc's into a plot, and utilize a coded clan for what its purpose is in game.
"Gettin' folks involved" isn't a sufficient criterion for violating city-elf racial roleplay guidelines. Now, if you've put Sarge Amos and Trooper Malik through your elven loyalty tests, and you know that Runner's deep, dark secret, it might make sense. Otherwise, there's no way in hell an elf would go out on a limb like that with people he's got no reason to trust.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: Potaje on July 01, 2012, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
Yea, well, anyone can label most any situation that has some risk as dumb.
But hiring out the Byn is one way to include and generate a group of other pc's into a plot, and utilize a coded clan for what its purpose is in game.
"Gettin' folks involved" isn't a sufficient criterion for violating city-elf racial roleplay guidelines. Now, if you've put Sarge Amos and Trooper Malik through your elven loyalty tests, and you know that Runner's deep, dark secret, it might make sense. Otherwise, there's no way in hell an elf would go out on a limb like that with people he's got no reason to trust.
Never played an elf, doubt I ever will, but from my reading of the docs, don't elves go to the point of putting their own lives at risk to discern the trustworthiness of others?
edit: yeah, it sounds absurd, and it's part of why I've no intention to go for an elf - that's too alien to me. That's what's written, however.
Quote from: Chettaman on July 01, 2012, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: Iiyola on July 01, 2012, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a half-giant hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
That.
It's always a trust issue.
Yeah, but the half-giant racial docs specifically say they're prone to trusting people when they shouldn't. City-elves are exactly the opposite--they won't trust you until you've gone through hell and high water to prove it.
Quote from: Delusion on July 01, 2012, 02:14:53 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: Potaje on July 01, 2012, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
Yea, well, anyone can label most any situation that has some risk as dumb.
But hiring out the Byn is one way to include and generate a group of other pc's into a plot, and utilize a coded clan for what its purpose is in game.
"Gettin' folks involved" isn't a sufficient criterion for violating city-elf racial roleplay guidelines. Now, if you've put Sarge Amos and Trooper Malik through your elven loyalty tests, and you know that Runner's deep, dark secret, it might make sense. Otherwise, there's no way in hell an elf would go out on a limb like that with people he's got no reason to trust.
Never played an elf, doubt I ever will, but from my reading of the docs, don't elves go to the point of putting their own lives at risk to discern the trustworthiness of others?
That would be the absolute final step in an elven trial of trust. Even then, it is often only the illusion of being in danger. The point is to make the person being tested put himself into danger, not to put yourself into danger. That's just smart.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: Potaje on July 01, 2012, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
As an aside, I think a city-elf hiring the Byn to escort them is a pretty dumb idea, unless you have a rock solid plan B covering the scenario where they try to screw you over.
Yea, well, anyone can label most any situation that has some risk as dumb.
But hiring out the Byn is one way to include and generate a group of other pc's into a plot, and utilize a coded clan for what its purpose is in game.
"Gettin' folks involved" isn't a sufficient criterion for violating city-elf racial roleplay guidelines. Now, if you've put Sarge Amos and Trooper Malik through your elven loyalty tests, and you know that Runner's deep, dark secret, it might make sense. Otherwise, there's no way in hell an elf would go out on a limb like that with people he's got no reason to trust.
Your stance begins with the assumption that other aspects of preparation for travel would not have been arranged. You simply label another's idea as dumb because they didn't feel the need to go into a step by step - How to Hire the Byn if your an Elf- senerio. It is no less a valid (an by no means does it say or suggest anywhere that an elf would not Hire the Byn to secure travel in the docs) as a suggestion.
Not that I don't agree with having a plan B, or making sure to secure some sort of trust (lets face it as the Byn works on reputation and coins, coins can at least buy some trust if one known's how to deal.), I do disagree with it being called dumb, or wrongly being stated as some part of the elven docs.
If you're an elf that would travel out into the wastes with a bunch of armed fellows who aren't 100% certain not to kill you, you're playing a dumb elf. This paranoia about loyalty isn't some kind of thing that can generally be overcome by rational capacity. The fear of betrayal and being screwed over is something that dominates the elven psyche so fully that it becomes a reason in itself.
Not only that, if you die...what happens to the tribemates who depend on you? What happens to your mate, your children? Will they go hungry? Will they die on an impossible quest to avenge your death? How can you know? How can you risk it, when so many things can go wrong, and the only reward is some bit of coin or something equally worthless?
I suppose I could make an exception for a tribeless elf who is so tortured by solitude that he's essentially broken and half-mad, but again...that's going to be a huge exception.
I doubt they would even get out of the gates. The bynners would likely require something up front as all elves are thieving sneaky badasses, and the elf would never pay anything up front out of risk of getting the front money stolen.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 02:31:39 PM
If you're an elf that would travel out into the wastes with a bunch of armed fellows who aren't 100% certain not to kill you, you're playing a dumb elf. This paranoia about loyalty isn't some kind of thing that can generally be overcome by rational capacity. The fear of betrayal and being screwed over is something that dominates the elven psyche so fully that it becomes a reason in itself.
Not only that, if you die...what happens to the tribemates who depend on you? What happens to your mate, your children? Will they go hungry? Will they die on an impossible quest to avenge your death? How can you know? How can you risk it, when so many things can go wrong, and the only reward is some bit of coin or something equally worthless?
I suppose I could make an exception for a tribeless elf who is so tortured by solitude that he's essentially broken and half-mad, but again...that's going to be a huge exception.
I took the OP's question as a general one, not that specific to the coded tribes. And taking what you had to say above. There is no difference in the lose, just as great a chance of danger and death when heading out on ones own.
I sense you are trying to be -what you think is- helpful, perhaps you even feel you have the quintessential knowledge to the play of a c-elf. I can appreciate many aspects of your suggestions through the post, though we will not see eye to eye on all of them.
I for one have successfully played elves. I have seen elves both of tribes and tribeless hire out the Byn. I have seen it succed and not succeed. You will not find me giving to your stance on it being Dumb, as a blanket statement. I will say there are risks, as you point out, all risks must be weighed carefully.
If an elf is to hire the Byn, go out on their own, or hire any sort of escort to travel (even with their own blood) they should seek to limit the amount of risk by considering as many angles as possible. Here I would agree with Synthesis.
My "quintessential knowledge" is the docs:
http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/thanas_elf.html
"Probably the key thing to focus on when playing an elf, is that the elven mind is always looking for a scam, either directed at him or one he can direct at someone else. Elves will be suspicious of anyone that they do not know well enough to trust their lives to. The reasoning is simple. When you spend your entire life looking for ways to screw everyone else over, you expect everyone else to be doing the same to you.
The only people that an elf should trust are those of his tribe, or otherwise childhood friends that he has tested, and those who you have ICly tested their trust."
http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/elf.html
"Elves highly distrust anyone who is not part of their immediate family, or of their tribe, who has not been tested severely to earn their trust. Elves will go to great lengths to contrive and execute these tests, even to the point of putting their own lives at risk."
http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/race%20city%20elf
"Highly distrustful of all persons outside their immediate tribe, elves will often go to great lengths to test the trustworthiness of any companion."
http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/elven.html
"All elves have an inborn distrust of anyone and everyone outside of their tribe or social circle. An elf gifted with the presence of a tribe would have an "us" versus "them" mentality. An elf who is born without a tribe would, because they has no-one else to identify with, have an overwhelming "me" versus "them" mentality. The "them" to elves is outsiders, everyone who is not part of the tribe, the individual, or the trusted social circle. As much as elves have an enhanced sense of cohesion for their own tribe, they have a decreased sense of it for outsiders! The word paranoia is perhaps not too strong to define how elves see outsiders."
I'm not saying it is inconceivable for an elf to hire the Byn as an escort. I'm saying it would be highly unusual and probably require years of IC grooming and preparation. The fact that people have done it before is irrelevant to the question of whether it's appropriate or inappropriate, unless you know all the circumstances surrounding the case and you know whether it was approved of (or not) by the Staff.
Elves NEVER make any mistakes.
Quote from: chrisdcoulombe on July 01, 2012, 04:27:36 PM
Elves NEVER make any mistakes.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 01, 2012, 02:31:39 PM
If you're an elf that would travel out into the wastes with a bunch of armed fellows who aren't 100% certain not to kill you, you're playing a dumb elf.
Gee, if only someone had thought of that earlier.
Quote from: PotajeYour stance begins with the assumption that other aspects of preparation for travel would not have been arranged. You simply label another's idea as dumb because they didn't feel the need to go into a step by step - How to Hire the Byn if your an Elf- senerio. It is no less a valid (an by no means does it say or suggest anywhere that an elf would not Hire the Byn to secure travel in the docs) as a suggestion.
I have to side with Synthesis on this. I do not believe there is such a thing as How to Hire the Byn if You're an Elf Scenario. Sure, it's been done. It's not so heinous a breach of racial RP that the imms will strike you down with lightning from on high. And yes, it's always good to encourage interaction and involvement. The trouble is that elves are a tricky group to play. I don't think Synthesis is calling you or anyone else dumb for doing it. He's saying the reality is that an elf is ICly dumb if they do it. (Or so that's how I'm interpreting this dialog). If we really read the documentation with an open mind, we can see just how unlikely it is that an elf would hire and entrust a group of strangers with his life.
But the bottom line, I believe, in this entire discussion is if you're a city elf: just don't leave the city. There are a scarce few reasons you ever would. You're wanted for a crime? Many city elves, by their very nature, are already criminals. Laying low and hiding out in the poorer part of your city would be far more natural for an elf "on the run" than to head into a desert you know nothing about. It has to be understood that the desert wastes by most of the civilized populous of the world is viewed as instant death. So certain are they that they'll die horribly out in the sands they willingly tolerate the cruel and tortuous whim of templars, the corruption of militia and endure a life in abject poverty. The same large majority of Zalanthas' city population has never stepped foot outside the city walls in their entire life! With that in mind what possible reason could a city elf have for traipsing into the desert?
The trouble is, many players WANT to go exploring, they WANT to visit other places such as Luir's Outpost or Red Storm Village. And that's fair enough. I like to do those things too. But if you can't handle playing a completely indoors character, my recommendation is don't play a city elf! It's simply a role that's not for you. As others have said, there are exceptions as to why a city elf might leave his home, but they are such rare occurrences that I really am going to raise my eyebrows in question when I see one do it. Not in an "Oh my God this elf is riding a kank!" or "look at those Tulukis hugging a sorcerer!" kind of response, surely, but definitely a look of "something's not right here. I wonder what this is all about." The only reasonable exceptions that come to mind are: a templar has booted you out of the city as punishment for your crime, or strange magicks have brought you far into the wilderness and you have no choice but to find your way back (or to the nearest point of civilization).
There are certain ways for elves to travel between the city states. It's a find out in the game sort of thing though, and possibly the easier ways are not available anymore because of certain happenings in the game as well. What we all can agree upon is that walking between the city states is not optimal for a city elf. And the answer to how one would transport themselves from point A to point B would be best found out playing the damn game.. All our tricky problems, that foster fun scenarios IG, will never be solved or spelled out on the forums for the obvious reasons!
I've never had a problem with my celves traveling outside the city. Some of which went just about everywhere.
On average, you can travel around 20 rooms using half your stam...some areas less, some areas more, but on average, 20...this gives you plenty of stam to run if you need to.
I wish I'd noticed this thread when everyone was talking about how silly the in-game process for membership in c-elf clans is.
Quote from: HavokBlue on July 02, 2012, 07:23:47 AM
I wish I'd noticed this thread when everyone was talking about how silly the in-game process for membership in c-elf clans is.
(http://i.imgur.com/x985xl.jpg)
to complain...
or to offer a rebuttal?
Inquiring minds wish to know!
Quote from: Nyr on June 28, 2012, 03:58:52 PM
Quote from: help elf; proposed changes
Race Elf (Character)
Elves are the second most populous race on the face of Zalanthas,
closely following humans. They are taller than humans--mostly standing
between around 74 and 90 inches in height--and tend to have slim, light
frames. Skin color ranges from nearly black to pale cream colors; hair is
typically dark but shares a similar range of hues. Eye color among elves
is a matter of extraordinary variability. Elven ears are always pointed,
and their eyes always almond-shaped. There are two varieties of elves: city
elves and desert elves. One of these varieties sucks.
City elves are scattered across the settled places of Zalanthas, and
have adapted to live by their wits. True to the nature of elves they also
live by their quick fingers, and are usually avoided by the honest citizens
of other races. Some city elves are members of tribes camped in some run-
down space within its walls; others lead shiftless lives with no ties of
loyalty at all. There is no space for roleplay between the two previous
positions.
Desert elves are nearly always members of desert tribes, and wander
freely about the wastes hunting for what they need. (unless they're Red Fangs,
then they're dead--amirite? lol) They tend to be darker
in skin color than city elves, as well as leaner and more muscular, but
not necessarily stronger. Elves are very long-limbed, and desert elves are
runners by nature, capable of a prolonged run across most types of terrain.
The differences between city elves and desert elves are only the result
of their differing lifestyles--there is only one elven race. All elves suck, though.
Roleplaying:
Descended from (or currently a member of) any one of the many desert
tribes, all elves have a cultural bent towards wandering and thievery.
Among elves, theft that relies on wit or nimble fingers is not a crime,
per se, but more of a test of courage. Highly distrustful of all persons
outside their immediate tribe, elves will often go to great lengths to
test the trustworthiness of any companion. However, they will not go
to great lengths to test the trustworthiness of elves that seek to join
their tribe. That'd be silly and not in-character at all. They also wouldn't
actually trust anyone that was tested in this fashion. That'd be silly, too.
Due to their nature as runners, all elves find the riding of mounts (and usually,
riding in wagons) to be an extremely shameful act--though a few can
forgive the riding habits of other races. In other words, elves will never ride
on mounts or in wagons, as to do so would be to insult one of the few
things they are proud of: their natural speed and endurance on the run.
Because of this, elves suck. It is known.
Notes:
Elves are not strong -- in comparison to most of the other humanoid
races of Zalanthas, they are quite weak. They possess other abilities
to compensate. If you are not happy running a character that is
physically weak, you are advised not to choose this race.
Desert elves are not readily available to new players, but city elves
are. Prioritizing strength last and then asking for a strength boost
usually results in a "dude, you didn't read the helpfile" answer.
let me know if this is good or not
This is pretty awesome and deserves to be in the quote thread.
How do city elves travel?
Well it help a lot that they can use beasts for pack animals, just you must make your p.c. flog themselves in penance if they buy one from an npc, they bring out your mount and the elf jumps up on it's back first thing? Then the poor beast never gets a name because you can't title without being mounted! Other than that, pack beasts kick ass.
Quote from: Nyr on July 02, 2012, 02:27:38 PM
Quote from: HavokBlue on July 02, 2012, 07:23:47 AM
I wish I'd noticed this thread when everyone was talking about how silly the in-game process for membership in c-elf clans is.
(http://i.imgur.com/x985xl.jpg)
to complain...
or to offer a rebuttal?
Inquiring minds wish to know!
I understand why new characters can't spawn into the Jaxa Pah or the Akai, it just always feels weird to me when every non-Jaxa c-elf effectively has no tribe, or a virtual one.
Have staff considered allowing players to app non-leader PCs in these clans via role application like the Red Fangs? Or do you guys already do this?
Quote from: HavokBlue on July 02, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
Have staff considered allowing players to app non-leader PCs in these clans via role application like the Red Fangs? Or do you guys already do this?
They already do this.
Quote from: Suhuy on July 01, 2012, 04:47:49 PM
The trouble is, many players WANT to go exploring, they WANT to visit other places such as Luir's Outpost or Red Storm Village. And that's fair enough. I like to do those things too. But if you can't handle playing a completely indoors character, my recommendation is don't play a city elf! It's simply a role that's not for you. As others have said, there are exceptions as to why a city elf might leave his home, but they are such rare occurrences that I really am going to raise my eyebrows in question when I see one do it. Not in an "Oh my God this elf is riding a kank!" or "look at those Tulukis hugging a sorcerer!" kind of response, surely, but definitely a look of "something's not right here. I wonder what this is all about." The only reasonable exceptions that come to mind are: a templar has booted you out of the city as punishment for your crime, or strange magicks have brought you far into the wilderness and you have no choice but to find your way back (or to the nearest point of civilization).
This is pretty much why I will never play an elf. C-Elf stuck in the city and can never leave? D-Elf stuck in the desert with tribe and can never leave? I don't think I have what it takes to play one of those roles and as such I don't ever see myself rolling up an elf. I'm sure it's a lot of fun if you know how to play them and you're into that kind of thing but it's just not for me.
Quote from: spicemustflow on July 02, 2012, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: HavokBlue on July 02, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
Have staff considered allowing players to app non-leader PCs in these clans via role application like the Red Fangs? Or do you guys already do this?
They already do this.
Yep, but no one really knows about it.
I did not know about that.
There are plenty of reasons why a Celf would travel the desert.
1) A member of the tribe who is higher in the hierarchy told you to do it.
2) You have to do it, for the benefit of the tribe.
3) You have to do it, to avoid endangering the tribe.
4) You have to do it, to destroy the enemy of the tribe.
5) You have to do it, to make contact with another celven tribe of another city.
6) You have to do it, as a part of a con.
Do you try alternatives first? Yes. But if you have to do it, then ... you have to do it.
No this doesnt give you free license of gallivanting all over the sands. I cannot see a Celf going around the wastes 'aimlessly', like I would easily see a ranger breed do. But if there is a reason for a celf to do something and there are no alternatives. Then, it's going to happen. The journey will "not" be fun, will "not" be relaxed, and will "not" be easy, and that's beautiful.
I can even envision hiring the Byn for the trip as well. It gets easier if you're part of a powerful tribe or got associates. In that case, all you need to do is make sure the entire Byn knows they, as well as their families and pets will be cut down if the elf who is taking the journey were to die. If not ... you'd have to hire the Byn to hunt specific creatures in specific areas, as part of a favor that the elf promised to do for house Kadius. And when the Byn moves out, you'd follow them 10 rooms behind, hoping that the Byn cleaned up the area ahead of you.
Quote from: Dar on July 03, 2012, 07:08:20 PM
I can even envision hiring the Byn for the trip as well. It gets easier if you're part of a powerful tribe or got associates. In that case, all you need to do is make sure the entire Byn knows they, as well as their families and pets will be cut down if the elf who is taking the journey were to die. If not ... you'd have to hire the Byn to hunt specific creatures in specific areas, as part of a favor that the elf promised to do for house Kadius. And when the Byn moves out, you'd follow them 10 rooms behind, hoping that the Byn cleaned up the area ahead of you.
I don't think I could play an elf. I might consider it one day but the role, the restrictions and the distrust/conniving/scheming is just something I don't think I would be good at and as such I don't think I could properly RP an elf. Would rather play something else than mangle a role, have trouble following the docs 100% and also mess with other peoples RP/perceptions.
Those requirments are a good way to get the Byn to refuse the job.
In retrospect ... I regret posting the whole Byn thing. If your elf "has" to travel in the wilderness, then I guess ... he has to. Figuring out how to do it safely, via this way, or that way, really should be found out ICly.
Quote from: Dar on July 03, 2012, 07:53:00 PM
In retrospect ... I regret posting the whole Byn thing. If your elf "has" to travel in the wilderness, then I guess ... he has to. Figuring out how to do it safely, via this way, or that way, really should be found out ICly.
*hug
It's alright, dood.
City elves are awesomely devious. One of my favorites started in Tuluk. Went from Tuluk to Allanak after having some trouble with d-elves. He then joined the byn and stole food selling it to a dirty pickpocket. Got caught, but managed to get away and run to Red storm. In Storm he was eventually killed for trying to plot against the wrong Byn Sergeant. And...being to trustworthy. He was a dumb elf. Don't trust anyone.
I did make an rp mistake with the character and would like to apologize for it.
Please understand I'm not trying to tear apart your argument here. I really am just discussing these points, as I happen to disagree with them. It's not an argument, I don't hate you, we're friends :D
Quote from: Dar1) A member of the tribe who is higher in the hierarchy told you to do it.
2) You have to do it, for the benefit of the tribe.
3) You have to do it, to avoid endangering the tribe.
4) You have to do it, to destroy the enemy of the tribe.
5) You have to do it, to make contact with another celven tribe of another city.
6) You have to do it, as a part of a con.
1) I don't see why a senior member of your gang of street elves would tell you to do such a thing. Unless perhaps (s)he wanted a quick way to remove you from the bloodline.
2) How exactly would this work?
3) Or this?
4) I will admit, this one does have potential merit - depending perhaps on the severity of the enemy and how (s)he may have wronged you or your family. However it's one of those rare exceptions which would give a city elf reason to venture out.
5) Why is it so crucial for you to make contact with a gang of street elves from another city impossibly far away that you must risk your life going there to meet them? To me it doesn't add up and it sounds like an excuse to travel with your character. Which, if you want to do, is great. Just don't make a city elf if that's your intention.
6) You don't
have to, though maybe you the player want to. There should be plenty of people in your own city for you to con. Tens of thousands, in fact.
In each scenario it should be asked: is the reason one born out of IC desperation and of little (or no) choice on the elf's behalf? A templar banishing you from the city is a fantastic reason because you really don't have any choice.
It should also be noted that whatever reason you come up with, a city elf leaving the city is a rare sight indeed. If I saw a 'Rinth elf in Tuluk I would definitely do a double take (assuming my character could recognize an elf as being from the 'Rinth).
QuoteQuote from: Dar
1) A member of the tribe who is higher in the hierarchy told you to do it.
2) You have to do it, for the benefit of the tribe.
3) You have to do it, to avoid endangering the tribe.
4) You have to do it, to destroy the enemy of the tribe.
5) You have to do it, to make contact with another celven tribe of another city.
6) You have to do it, as a part of a con.
1) I don't see why a senior member of your gang of street elves would tell you to do such a thing. Unless perhaps (s)he wanted a quick way to remove you from the bloodline.
Tribe, not gang...totally different things.
2) How exactly would this work?
Um, many reasons there, you really want all of them explained?
3) Or this?
Same as above, but maybe you have a disease or something
4) I will admit, this one does have potential merit - depending perhaps on the severity of the enemy and how (s)he may have wronged you or your family. However it's one of those rare exceptions which would give a city elf reason to venture out.
Again, enemy of the tribe...not family, family actually means less...in a way, then tribe does. One must think of an elves tribe as an entity, and an elf keeps the well being of that entity as a whole in mind.
5) Why is it so crucial for you to make contact with a gang of street elves from another city impossibly far away that you must risk your life going there to meet them? To me it doesn't add up and it sounds like an excuse to travel with your character. Which, if you want to do, is great. Just don't make a city elf if that's your intention.
Repeating again, not gang...and who knows, again, many reasons. Most of which end with "Sometimes the way just ain't enough."
6) You don't have to, though maybe you the player want to. There should be plenty of people in your own city for you to con. Tens of thousands, in fact.
Um, how do you know they do not have too? Cons are a form of theft, bragging rights held in high regard by elves. The con could have very well started in the city, one of those thousands of people, but it very well could lead outside in some manner, perhaps it is a long con involving an entire clan, one with MASSIVE bragging rights perhaps even raising the elfs status in his tribe?
And I am going to add another to Dar's list because I find it an often forgotten part of elven RP.
7: Part of "trials of trust".
Most of those examples I gave, if you change the words "Go out into the wilderness" into "Strap yourself with flash powder and explode yourself in a tavern", nothing will change. If the tribe's well being is involved, then its just as likely. In my personal opinion anyway.
The elven reputation of being creatures of deceit, totally untrustworthy and unreliable is all true, 'if' it is towards "them". An elf is actually the greatest ally and the most reliable being that you can ever really encounter, if you are part of "us". At least that's how I always understood the elven tribal mentality personally. Not that it always played out that way, of course.
Quote from: Suhuy on July 05, 2012, 05:00:34 AM
Please understand I'm not trying to tear apart your argument here. I really am just discussing these points, as I happen to disagree with them. It's not an argument, I don't hate you, we're friends :D
Quote from: Dar1) A member of the tribe who is higher in the hierarchy told you to do it.
2) You have to do it, for the benefit of the tribe.
3) You have to do it, to avoid endangering the tribe.
4) You have to do it, to destroy the enemy of the tribe.
5) You have to do it, to make contact with another celven tribe of another city.
6) You have to do it, as a part of a con.
1) I don't see why a senior member of your gang of street elves would tell you to do such a thing. Unless perhaps (s)he wanted a quick way to remove you from the bloodline.
2) How exactly would this work?
3) Or this?
4) I will admit, this one does have potential merit - depending perhaps on the severity of the enemy and how (s)he may have wronged you or your family. However it's one of those rare exceptions which would give a city elf reason to venture out.
5) Why is it so crucial for you to make contact with a gang of street elves from another city impossibly far away that you must risk your life going there to meet them? To me it doesn't add up and it sounds like an excuse to travel with your character. Which, if you want to do, is great. Just don't make a city elf if that's your intention.
6) You don't have to, though maybe you the player want to. There should be plenty of people in your own city for you to con. Tens of thousands, in fact.
In each scenario it should be asked: is the reason one born out of IC desperation and of little (or no) choice on the elf's behalf? A templar banishing you from the city is a fantastic reason because you really don't have any choice.
It should also be noted that whatever reason you come up with, a city elf leaving the city is a rare sight indeed. If I saw a 'Rinth elf in Tuluk I would definitely do a double take (assuming my character could recognize an elf as being from the 'Rinth).
I'm not going into detail here. As it is forbidden.
Nyr removed the rest of this because you proceeded to do
exactly that. As it is forbidden. Please don't do that.
That's not completely correct.
Quote from: Fredd going into detail
I'm not going into detail here... -a whole bunch of detail-
Yo. Don't talk about IC specifics and shit. Even if they're wrong.
lmfao, so I started this post out of curiosity cus I've seen elves do it but I've only ever seen 1 actually travel regularly so I wondered what the 'ways' were, now I come back and you see how eclectic the Pbase is. You can basicaly break this entire thread down into a handful of actual opinions only 2 of which actually answered my question (Though Nyr's post tickled my funnybone pretty well and was oddly insightful)
1) Use a tent
2) Don't travel
3) Hire the byn
4) don't hire the byn
5) Find out IC
6) People that say find out IC are trolls
And theres 5 pages of that in repitition... I love this pbase. Thank you Mr. Use a tent, it was helpful. Also thank you nyr for comic relief. Ahh I needed that.
Quote from: Suhuy on July 05, 2012, 05:00:34 AM
1) I don't see why a senior member of your gang of street elves would tell you to do such a thing. Unless perhaps (s)he wanted a quick way to remove you from the bloodline.
Here are some examples off the top of my head.
- your tribe wants to deal with a gang of street elves that lives in The Other City, so somebody's got to go make contact
- some asshole wronged your tribe, then fled to The Other City, and you don't have a contact over there who's able to take care of them for you
- your tribe has a rite of passage involving seeing the world or taking a dangerous journey or going through a trial alone or whatever
- you're displaying magical powers and need to be put at a safe distance from the rest of the tribe
- you're starting to get a lot of heat from the Powers That Be and need to be put somewhere out of reach for a while
- you're a Rusarla bard and you need your dumb charmstrings
- the elders have discovered that you are a master tailor (applies to trips to Red Storm only)