This is not to complain about arm. Just to see what would make it more realistic for everyone.
it would be cool if the city at night time would be as dangerious as the rinth. And it would be cool if there were more day time blinding sand storms outside a city. And peacefullness should dominate at night time outside a city and death out of our ears durring the day. And also if water was more expensive and food more limited in access. Especially fruit. And if heavy armor was rarely seen and worn.
AND If arm was not a MUD but a real life experience. But, I suppose for many of you, it already is. (you losers)
:)
A direct neural interface for a completely realistic simulation of life on Zanathas...
or maybe crim-code revision.
Turn the "quit" command into a social that shows:
The ugly little man says, in sirihish:
"You can't fire me, I quit!"
Quote from: "Marauder Moe"crim-code revision.
That and more controlled movement. What I mean by this is having the ability to see more than directly north, south, west and east. Also having more realistic bow-shooting IG by making movement between squares slower and being able to shoot within same squares with added accuracy and damage without automatically initiating combat.
Mainly the crim code, worst part as well all know is soldier's amazing ability to detect a culprit and grab them with super-human speed.
Turning your sdesc into YOU when you emote:
emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
Present show:
The short, fat puertorrican snickers, shaking your head.
More realistic show:
You snickers, shaking your head.
I realize the verb cojugation will be off but it would feel more real to me if I saw YOU do this/such/that rather than my character's sdesc.
Being able to finish a sentence with HIS/HER/YOURS without the horrendous 's at the end.
emote standing back to the left of the gate into the templar's quarter, @ allows %blackrobetemplar entourage to pass by before %bluerobetemplar
Present:
Standing back to the left of the gate into the templar's quarter, the short, fat puertorrican allows the intimidating, black robe templar's entourage to pass by before the puny, blue robe templar's.
The blue sees:
Standing back to the left of the gate into the templar's quarter, the short, fat puertorrican allows the intimidating, black robe templar's entourage to pass by before your.
The black sees:
Standing back to the left of the gate into the templar's quarter, the short, fat puertorrican allows your entourage to pass by before the puny, blue robe templar's.
If we could somehow teach the code to learn the difference between a sentence ending possessive and that which preceeds an actual possession, it'd look much better.
A more realistic combat code.
I haven't thought too much about this one but some deaths go so damn quick that you don't have TIME to react and much less roleplay. I think I'd like to see character initiated and maintained combat between PLAYER CHARACTERS rather than the automatic spam that results from typing 'kill noble' now.
Examples:
>tell noble (reaching into ~cloak) Yew killt my fava, prrrreparrrrre to dye!
>kill noble
then, depending on how versed your character is at combat, you'd get no more than 3 hits in.
WHACK WHACK WHACK
combat stops
Dazed and confused, and adrenaline jolted noble reacts...
Wiping the blood from his mouth, the pompous, junior Tor noble sneers at you.
Unslinging his massive, steel, serrated, Tek-blessed kitana, the pompous, junior Tor noble tells you, in sirihish: "That's the last mistake YOU'LL ever make, rinthi scum!
PJTN attacks you back and whack whack whacks you back.
Depending on how well your opponent knows HIS shit, you can block each other.
An annoyance probably, yes, it would also certainly take some getting used to but THINK of the roleplay possibilities!
A more realistic timeline
- 1 RL day = 1 In game day... I think I better duck the rotten tomatoes on this one *duck*. Yeah, yeah, I know it would take forever to get an old character. I didn't say it was a perfect thought! We could just compromise and say we'll stop bitching about people sitting in a tavern for 3 IG days and how it's not realistic to take X amount of IG days to do Y.
A more realistic HIDE/SNEAK code
Unless you have scan maxed out these people are practically invisible. Maybe counter it with an INTUITION/PARANOIA skill? Something so that things can be more realistic.
I know, I know, we're all in this game for the fantasy aspect. So that we can be anything, do anything, conquer the world! I'll hush now.
Quote from: "Marauder Moe"or maybe crim-code revision.
Thirded.
Defecation code.
Quote from: "Marauder Moe"crime-code revision.
At nights... That would be really cool change, so everybody would have to enter somewhere with other people and soldiers.. like it
As usual I agree most of what
ShaLeah wrote down..
Just,
Quote from: "ShaLeah"A more realistic timeline
I believe it's much better as it is now. Still it does not take too much time to walk from one side of the city to other.. Or worse for those twinky elves running from one side of the world to other do not take not many RL minutes.
Quote from: "FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit"Defecation code.
I think, to add to the harsh reality of Armageddon, players should also need to defecate as well as eat and drink. Players who fail to monitor thier defecation levels (type "score") will die. Helpful reminders will pop up when needed, much like those in the hunger and dehydration codes. Players will also need to remove any items occupying the 'on legs' wear location.
I think this is fair and also realistic. While I'm not basing this on any hard evidence, I'm pretty sure that if you forgot to crap, you'd die.
The only problem that I see would be the great amount of 'faeces' objects, which could crash the mud.
It's bad enough that about everytime I'm having an important meeting I have to put the whole thing on hold, or someone else does so they can run and grab a drink of water. The hunger code interrupts enough, a defecation code would just be an ooc annoyance... next time your talking with a templar, ask him to hold on so you can take a piss.. he'll understand.
Yeah, I was definetly just kidding about the defecation code.
The reason I put a joke answer is because, honestly, I'm weary of threads like this. Look, we all want a new crim code. Or at least, everyone who reads the GDB is aware that a fair-sized chunk of the playerbase wants a revision of the crim code.
But personally, I find it disrespectful that every week we have a thread like this, which is generally nothing more than a, "Gimme gimme gimme!" directed towards the Imms. Or, at least, that's the impression I get.
Well, 'tis the season, I guess.
[/derail]
Quote from: "Spoon"
I think this is fair and also realistic. While I'm not basing this on any hard evidence, I'm pretty sure that if you forgot to crap, you'd die.
No, no, no. You can't forget to crap, though you can forget to go to an appropriate location first. You get a few "You suffer from cramping!" warning messages, like the dehydration messages. If you still don't get the hint, then nature takes it's course. Adding new dimensions to those "shits in his/her seat" typos. If don't remove the necessary cloathing first you can still do the deed, but the items in the way gain the "smelly" tag.
AC
Seriously though, who needs a defecation code? We should all just RP natural bodily functions.
emote squats over facilities, releases a long deep sigh and then swiftly jumps aside to avoid the fetid splash.
:shock: :shock:
Hmmm.... kinda makes you wonder about the extent to which 'realism' should be a yard stick for Arm, doesn't it.?! :D[/i]
Quote from: "Graydread"Seriously though, who needs a defecation code? We should all just RP natural bodily functions.
emote squats over facilities, releases a long deep sigh and then swiftly jumps aside to avoid the fetid splash.
:shock: :shock:
Hmmm.... kinda makes you wonder about the extent to which 'realism' should be a yard stick for Arm, doesn't it.?! :D[/i]
You're a sick, sick man.
Nah, I think it definitely needs a syntax:
> expel (object) (location)
eg.
> expel shit templar
ps. my GOD I hope some of you are being ironic about my post.
Quote from: "Jorlain"You're a sick, sick man.
Pfft, oh hardly. I'd say more honest, and amusing.
There should be more players emoting sweat, stench, timbre of voice, menstruation, muscle cramps... hah, oh, mood swings for teenagers and other hormonal people should be coded in, y'know...
"You become irrationally irritated with everything."
And sunburn! There should be sunburn. And cracked lips. And flatulence. Write the code, because of course, people play Arm to be confronted with bodily functions.
Quote from: "chaomiandra"Quote from: "Jorlain"You're a sick, sick man.
Pfft, oh hardly. I'd say more honest, and amusing.
I was being sarcastic. :wink:
Quote from: "FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit"Defecation code.
Yikes!
Quote from: "chaomiandra"
oh, mood swings for teenagers and other hormonal people should be coded in, y'know...
"You become irrationally irritated with everything."
And sunburn! There should be sunburn. And cracked lips. And flatulence. Write the code, because of course, people play Arm to be confronted with bodily functions.
Oh yeah, baby. Up with realism! Lets give Zalanthas the same level of drudgery we all enjoy in the real world!
I especially like moodiness echos for teens and menopausal females.
AC
Yeah, let's make Armageddon suck, just like real life!
Coded depression:
-
You feel unwanted.
>look bartender
What's the point?
-
So, basically, unless you keep you PC happy, you will be irritatingly IMMOBILISED.
The Sims: Armageddon
Quote from: "Jorlain"I was being sarcastic. :wink:
I know. :P :wink:
Crafts being more useful.
Armor breaking down to uselessness, along with weapons.
Clothing better influencing the amount of MP you have, since MP is effectively your energy level.
MP effecting how much you can do, not just how much you can move.
Weather being even more influencing.
Language changed to allow for faking and such.
Combat changed to allow better customization.
THis list could go on and on and on and on and on....
Quote from: "Angela Christine"I especially like moodiness echos for teens and menopausal females.
AC
The latter aren't in short supply :) One of my past characters dealt with a
female character whose mood swings nearly gave him an ulcer.
- Ktavialt
People not wearing the same stereotypical kind of gear.
An NPC whore that you "give 20 coins whore" and you get an emote that says, "You disappear into an alleyway and do you business with ~whore."
Quote from: "Spoon"I think this is fair and also realistic. While I'm not basing this on any hard evidence, I'm pretty sure that if you forgot to crap, you'd die.
You wouldn't die per say, you'd gain about 50 lbs and then pass out at your max level. Then while you're passed out you'd have involinary muscle contractions (or maybe without passing out) and you'd loose all that weight into your clothing.
Then, you'd be more likely to get sicknesses and die.
Too lazy to read all of the neat posts, but I'm all for crim code revision. Giving criminals a leg up would encourage more PC-PC street crime, which woulc scare me enough to hire a body guard. A PC body guard!
Roleplaying Fun is sure to ensue!
I just wanted to revive this topic since I found it interesting.
I'd want to implement more realistic.... err... bodies. Disease, more input, more smells, sounds, tastes, etc; Even bodily functions would be an interesting addition to the game , despite their unpleasantness and possibility of abuse ::) ex) fart fart fart fart fart
Definately the need to go for a wee/urination/pee/whatever.
>pee barkeep
You pee upon the fierce-looking human barkeep.
Welcome to the wonderful world of emotes.
Yeah, but its not the same. You should be able to throw your shit at people, or pee in a cup. I mean, my current character wouldn't ever do anything like that, but I am sure there are those that would. And urine should be used in tanning--thats the ancient way. :P
It IS the same if you do it in emotes.
Seriously. Emotes are the key to doing -anything- you want. If it needs to have something codedly happen afterwards, wish up about it. Pissing on Vennant (If you do I'll kill you myself) can be done by "em stands on ~bar and pisses all over ~vennant" If you're tanning and want to piss on the leather instead of using the oils that I think we have, emote it out. Who is going to say you DIDN'T piss?
And as far as pissing, shitting, spitting, thats all stuff YOU get to decide upon. Maybe you're outside the gates, and suddenly you have to shit. emote that you go off into the distance and pinch off a loaf.
I know I'm -TERRIBLE- at roleplaying, but I understand that much of the game world is carved by us. Emote, think, feel. Do it.
The stuff you emote is as real as coded stuff, usually. Some people are a little more picky about having the actual "thing" to RP with (like a cup, or a flint striking kit, or something), and some aren't so picky. But it's still real. This is the same principle behind people emoting magickal cantrips. Or emoting a VNPC baby in their arms. Etc.
I don't want the game to become anymore confusing...I don't use half of the stuff anyways and some I haven't even found out yet...so really just adding more minor stuff you can accomplice with emotes is just pointless...I honestly love Arm how it is.....and am not really looking forward to Arm 2 because I have the feeling it's gonna be changed so damn much it's gonna be a whole new mud....and I don't like that idea......not at alll :p
Quote from: titansfan on May 13, 2008, 06:38:01 PM
I don't want the game to become anymore confusing...I don't use half of the stuff anyways and some I haven't even found out yet...so really just adding more minor stuff you can accomplice with emotes is just pointless...I honestly love Arm how it is.....and am not really looking forward to Arm 2 because I have the feeling it's gonna be changed so damn much it's gonna be a whole new mud....and I don't like that idea......not at alll :p
Yeah you're probably right--there are so many more important things to code first I am sure. As for Arm 2.... well, I'm new to this game so I don't have quite as much of an 'emotional attachment.' So as long as the new MUD has the same.... philosophy and flavor, lets say, I'll be just as happy.
What would make the game more realistic for me ... hmm ...
I guess the better question for me would be, how much realism do I want ... things like combat, the quick travel outside of cities, the banking system that manages to sustain itself without error despite the fact that most of the population using is has no last name and no reading/writing ability (let alone the fact that I doubt Zalanthas banks are lending out money to turn a profit on their own) ... the ability to craft whatever, wherever you want in perhap 1/100th the time it should actually take ...
Those are all things that I feel are not very realistic, but by keeping them the way they are, it allows us to make the game what we want it to be. Combat isn't a case of someone dieing in one hit, so you have time to emote during combat without worrying too much about your character dieing at any moment ... you can opt to RP the whole week and a half of travel it should take your character to get from Allanak to Luirs, or ... hey you're rushed for time because you have class, so you just walk the distance and quit, to RP another day ...
While I am a big fan of realism, I also think that, since it's a game, some of the more droning aspects of RL could stand to be suspended for the sake of our enjoyment. :)
Right. But this isn't a topic about what you think is a good balance between realism and playability. God knows we've talked that subject to death. What do you think could be added to the game to make it more realistic and more fun to play?
Most of what's be set forth for 2.arm is taking away most of my issues with the realness of the game.
Quote from: Riev on May 13, 2008, 06:07:46 PM
It IS the same if you do it in emotes.
But if I pee in a cup, the cup stays empty.
So it is kinda different.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 13, 2008, 09:58:03 PM
Right. But this isn't a topic about what you think is a good balance between realism and playability. God knows we've talked that subject to death. What do you think could be added to the game to make it more realistic and more fun to play?
Most of what's be set forth for 2.arm is taking away most of my issues with the realness of the game.
It's the GDB, there isn't an Arm-related topic that hasn't been talked to death already.
For me, at the moment, the game is a good balance of realism/playability. So I can't of anything that should be added to give realism to the world that we couldn't already do with a bit of emoting and v-props.
My only 2 sids would be: Before we consider adding something like the coded need to go to the bathroom, is it going to make the game more or less fun to play overall?
Quote from: ShaLeah on December 21, 2004, 08:05:18 PM
Turning your sdesc into YOU when you emote:
emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
Present show:
The short, fat puertorrican snickers, shaking your head.
More realistic show:
You snickers, shaking your head.
I realize the verb cojugation will be off but it would feel more real to me if I saw YOU do this/such/that rather than my character's sdesc.
A real example from the current Arm 2.0 code:
Quote
> perspective first
Now viewing the game in first person perspective.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
I snicker, shaking my head.
> perspective second
Now viewing the game in second person perspective.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
You snicker, shaking your head.
> perspective third
Now viewing the game in third person perspective.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
Belenos snickers, shaking his head.
Mind you, this is a staff view, so you would see the sdesc rather than the name on the third person perspective.
Quote from: ShaLeah on December 21, 2004, 08:05:18 PM
A more realistic timeline
- 1 RL day = 1 In game day... I think I better duck the rotten tomatoes on this one *duck*. Yeah, yeah, I know it would take forever to get an old character. I didn't say it was a perfect thought! We could just compromise and say we'll stop bitching about people sitting in a tavern for 3 IG days and how it's not realistic to take X amount of IG days to do Y.
A severe problem with this one-to-one relation is that if you log in during the same time period, say peak time, you would only see a certain time of day in the game. It would suck for it to always be night when you log in.
I really DO like the perspectives. I always like seeing things as "I did this" instead of "You do this".
Also, RE the pee in a cup. Wish up about it. If there's an imm on, they'll probably do it if its codedly possible to begin with.
Quote from: Belenos on May 14, 2008, 01:33:55 AM
Quote
> perspective first
Now viewing the game in first person perspective.
That's so awesome. But of course I want more:
Quote from: 3.Arm> tense present
Now viewing the game in present tense.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
I snicker, shaking my head.
> tense past
Now viewing the game in past tense.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
I snickered, shaking my head.
Quote from: Inertial Inix on May 14, 2008, 10:19:43 AM
Quote from: Belenos on May 14, 2008, 01:33:55 AM
Quote
> perspective first
Now viewing the game in first person perspective.
That's so awesome. But of course I want more:
Quote from: 3.Arm> tense present
Now viewing the game in present tense.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
I snicker, shaking my head.
> tense past
Now viewing the game in past tense.
> emote snickers, shaking ^me head.
I snickered, shaking my head.
Quote from: BugtrackerBug 93: Add tense command
We had already thought of that, can't guarantee we'll do it anytime soon, but it's on the list of things to do.
Quote from: Morgenes on May 14, 2008, 10:40:34 AM
Quote from: BugtrackerBug 93: Add tense command
We had already thought of that, can't guarantee we'll do it anytime soon, but it's on the list of things to do.
My socks are rocked.
I'm really curious as to how the game would 'feel' in past-tense. When I go back and read logs, the present-tenseness always seems somehow amateurish to me. But I wonder if events would feel too remote/storybookish in the past tense?
Resting a trembling hand on the hilt of my rantarri-headed greatsword, I looked at the short, scary-eyed templar.
The short, scary-eyed templar exclaimed, in sirihish,
"Kill them all!"
I panicked and attempted to flee.
Personally, I'm fine with present tense. When I write fiction, I use present tense about half the time in my narration anyway, so it feels pretty natural to me. Still, having an option certainly couldn't hurt.
You know what I want? I want people to chill out when confronted with possible PC to PC combat and death and RP the situations.
No particular instance I am thinking about that was bad, I'm just thinking about all of the TOTALLY awesome scenes I've had where the emotes were used instead of the code.
Please. Everyone. It's way more fun to not instantly type flee s;s;s;s;s;s;ee;e;;s;s;s;;e;e;s;es;e;s;e;s;ese;s;e;s;e;s;e;s;e;s;e;;ee;e;s;se;;s;;ese;;se;
But it's a two way street, so when you walk into a room with intent, don't straight up attack someone.
If someone walks into the room, don't straight up flee self.
Pretty Please?
I seriously suck at tensing.
When I started Arma I had to constantly stop doing
Me sighed, resting her arms on whatever.
An advance command built into the combat system. I don't like how the combat commands instantly close the distance between victim and attacker.
If wilderness and city rooms are as large as we're asked to believe, shouldn't the code support that?
This would give a distinct advantage to guilds with sneak, as they'll be able to close to distance without being noticed.
> kill amos
You begin advancing on the tressed, tressy-tressed man!
You close to pole weapon range on the tressed, tressy-tressed man!
You close to melee weapon range on the tressed, tressy-tressed man!
You slash the tressed, tressy-tressed man on his neck, doing frightening damage.
Or, if you're using ranged weapons..
You fire a stock-ass arrow at the distinct man, striking his head!
The distinct man begins advancing on you!
You fire a stock-ass arrow at the distinct man, striking his arm!
The distinct man closes to pole weapon range on you!
The distinct man closes to melee weapon range on you!
The distinct man chops your wrist, nicking you.
If you're an assassin..
>hide
You attempt to hide yourself.
>sneak
You slow down and start moving carefully.
> advance amos
You begin advancing on the tressed, tressy-tressed man.
>backstab amos
You aren't close enough yet.
You close to pole weapon range on the tressed, tressy-tressed man.
You close to melee weapon range on the tressed, tressy-tressed man.
> backstab amos
You stab that bitch in the back.
In this case, poor 'ol Amos wouldn't know what was coming until too late.
Quote from: manonfire on May 15, 2008, 12:06:08 PM
An assload of stuff
In -some- ways I agree, but honestly, its adding in code for something that -should- be able to be handled through an emote system anyways. Its hard -enough- (in my experience) to attempt to kill another person when you DON'T have to approach. Yes, you can enter the room and just start swinging, and its happened to me several times, but your ideas just seem like code whose purpose is -only- to inhibit a players ability to play the game.
For instance, if I enter the room, and start talking to someone, and we have a conversation, and THEN I have to approach them? If there was "approach" code wouldn't this be more of a hostile action? What would be the point of approaching if you -didn't- want to attack them? I don't want to have to approach someone that I've been talking to, or camping with, simply because I'm outside. I -surely- don't want to have to approach them in every room we travel in (especially if its combat-only)
For my first serious post in this ancient thread,
I really like manonfire's idea. It solves SO many problems with PvP combat, raiding etc. Raiders would need to start using strategies to kill people, like hiring a sneaky type to initiate combat, or blocking off exits a few rooms away. Or getting spears.
Plus gives you time to run from mekillots the size of airliners appearing out of nowhere.
I would actually be much happier making the combat system MUCH more automated than 'tis currently, with MUCH less to do keyboard-side - and yes, I already know that we don't have much.
If I had my druthers, kick, bash, and disarm would be replaced by automatic specials that break down by guild - warriors get better at them and do them more often, rangers less so, etc. etc. down to merchants. These would all have toggles, of course, just in case. The only things that would survive automation, in fact, would be combat-starting commands (be they hit, kill, backstab, sap, or whatever) and flee.
Perhaps, just PERHAPS, there might be 'styles' to go along with that, reflecting fighting inclinations of the character, whether trained or otherwise, but I dunno.
This would free up time for emoting, and would avoid all chance that a keyboard monkey can beat my character because of his higher skill as a typist.
My ideas are to make combat more realistic. Period.
I didn't take into consideration any other extenuating circumstances when writing out the post, so there's undoubtedly a number of holes in the idea.
Edit: Bold for emphasis.
Quote from: Tisiphone on May 15, 2008, 12:26:35 PM
I would actually be much happier making the combat system MUCH more automated than 'tis currently, with MUCH less to do keyboard-side - and yes, I already know that we don't have much.
If I had my druthers, kick, bash, and disarm would be replaced by automatic specials that break down by guild - warriors get better at them and do them more often, rangers less so, etc. etc. down to merchants. These would all have toggles, of course, just in case. The only things that would survive automation, in fact, would be combat-starting commands (be they hit, kill, backstab, sap, or whatever) and flee.
Perhaps, just PERHAPS, there might be 'styles' to go along with that, reflecting fighting inclinations of the character, whether trained or otherwise, but I dunno.
This would free up time for emoting, and would avoid all chance that a keyboard monkey can beat my character because of his higher skill as a typist.
There are sometimes though, I don't want to do some of those things. I don't want them to trigger, and times when I do. And moment to moment, even in the same combat, I don't want to have to worry about typing in disarm off, or kick on. Especially if I know that bashing that walking pile of stone armored gelatinous goo would seem like a dumb idea, but it's to late, because I had it defaulted to on, and now I'm inside the pile of goo trying to hold my breath because it triggered right away. (not based in reality or virtual reality...just an example)
Besides there is a delay after every single attack like that, so you can't just set an alias to kick;disarm;bash;fire stomp and spam it over and over. Cause you'll be backed up on lag so much, your 'flee' you typed, will never happen.
Quote from: Tisiphone on May 15, 2008, 12:26:35 PM
If I had my druthers, kick, bash, and disarm would be replaced by automatic specials that break down by guild - warriors get better at them and do them more often, rangers less so, etc. etc. down to merchants. These would all have toggles, of course, just in case. The only things that would survive automation, in fact, would be combat-starting commands (be they hit, kill, backstab, sap, or whatever) and flee.
I get that you're saying you want more time to emote, but automating combat specials isn't an optimal solution. When I'm playing a fighter, I want full control over when I do a combat special, because there are many situations in which doing one could result in my character's death, or the death of another character.
One thing would be timers on items.
Foods could rot or dry out over time. Flowers would wilt. Seeds would spout and develop into plants, under the right conditions. Leathers would crack without periodic oiling. Items left out on the desert would eventually become covered in sands.
For me it would be a more consistent system to communicate or get information from NPCs. I'm not saying everyone should respond (i.e. you shouldn't be able to talk gith name) but I think if you talk to any in a city it would be nice if it would give you a name and position/job or at least some response. As it is now it's real hit or miss with way more miss.
Brandon
I heavily, heavily support manonfire's idea. :D
Quote from: Riev on May 15, 2008, 12:15:24 PM
In -some- ways I agree, but honestly, its adding in code for something that -should- be able to be handled through an emote system anyways. Its hard -enough- (in my experience) to attempt to kill another person when you DON'T have to approach. ...
For instance, if I enter the room, and start talking to someone, and we have a conversation, and THEN I have to approach them? If there was "approach" code wouldn't this be more of a hostile action? What would be the point of approaching if you -didn't- want to attack them?
First off, I think that
flee should be harder to pull off if
approach were added. Fleeing is ridiculously easy at present, probably to compensate for the fact that someone can initiate combat against you with no warning.
Second, this really is something that isn't handled adequately with emoting. Combat is the highest-stress situation for players, and the most likely to be handled badly. The regular complaints about lack of emoting in combat, the difficulty of raiding (and the easy of being "randomly" killed by raiders), etc...those tell me that emoting on its own ain't cutting it to everyone's satisfaction.
Third: approaching is something you do
regularly. It's, in fact, something you probably do with emotes now without thinking about it:
tell barkeep (striding towards ~bar) Oi, gimme a Red Sun, fella.
tell templar (walking up cautiously, ^me eyes darting briefly toward ~giant) Er, Lord Templar?
etc...Add a few coded nudges to it (for instance, the ability to "talk" to people in your cluster), and it would get used all the time. Add it as an adverbial-type modifier, and it would be transparent.
There are really simple and elegant solutions to other objections. When you approach Amos, you also approach the person Amos has approached. Go approach Malik (who's standing on the other side of the room), and you ain't approached-to Amos any more. When you're riding across the desert in formation (
following your sergeant who you
approached way back in your compound), the approach-cluster stays unbroken. Heck, there are astounding possibilities for mass combat, but that's a whole 'nother post.
A unit of T'Zai Byn mercenaries rides in from the west.
A unit of heavily-armored soldiers of Tektolnes rides in from the west.
A mixed unit of soldiers of Tektolnes rides in from the west.
Detaching from a unit of soldiers, the vibrant, willowy half-giant charges at you on a light green inix, bellowing a war cry.Arrows aimed at you have a chance of striking someone near you.
It would be ridiculously awesome, guys, and it barely requires anything you don't do already in non-combat situations.
There are a ton of things I could list here, but I'm just going to comment instead...
QuoteIn -some- ways I agree, but honestly, its adding in code for something that -should- be able to be handled through an emote system anyways.
There is honestly no way to "emote" the coded effects that proximity should have.
You shouldn't be able to steal from someone who just entered the tavern if you are standing at the bar.
You shouldn't be able to instantly cross an indeterminate amount of desert to attack someone in the same room.
You shouldn't be able to "listen" and hear conversations, not only at the bar across the busy room, but also at every table in between...
I personally prefer "approach" to "advance", but the basic idea is the same. I think it is a -huge- flaw to not have a system for determining proximity to characters and objects.
QuoteIts hard -enough- (in my experience) to attempt to kill another person when you DON'T have to approach. Yes, you can enter the room and just start swinging, and its happened to me several times, but your ideas just seem like code whose purpose is -only- to inhibit a players ability to play the game.
No... It's to make things more realistic, that is all. There are -many- reasons to approach someone besides to attack them... If you want to attack someone and can't physically sneak up on them or charge them, then you'll just have to come up with a clever way to get within range without alerting them to you intent. Or just attack, if you're -really- confident. :-\
QuoteFor instance, if I enter the room, and start talking to someone, and we have a conversation, and THEN I have to approach them? If there was "approach" code wouldn't this be more of a hostile action?
If I were designing "approach" code, I would certainly have benefits and detriments to having a conversation without first approaching the other character. I would expect that a character would generally be approached before conversation much other than a "Howdy" were attempted. For example, if you tried to talk to someone you hadn't approached in a crowded tavern you might have to "loudly tell" or "shout" just to be heard.
QuoteWhat would be the point of approaching if you -didn't- want to attack them? I don't want to have to approach someone that I've been talking to, or camping with, simply because I'm outside. I -surely- don't want to have to approach them in every room we travel in (especially if its combat-only)
You would have to approach someone before you gave them items, or in some circumstances talked to them. You would have to approach someone before you attempted to steal from them, or in any other circumstance where it makes sense for characters to be in immediate proximity to each other.
This can be handled automatically, in many cases. So if you try to give Amos a travel cake and you're not close enough, you will simply approach him (unless that means standing up, of course). Proximity could be kept through movement, if you were also following the person you had "approached". Groups would also be able to separate into rough formations with this system and the watch/follow expansion I've suggested elsewhere. The "leader" could "watch" and "follow" a "scout" from a room behind, while being followed in the same room by the "merchant", who is followed by two "guards" who have used "approach" and are within proximity of the "merchant", the whole group could also be trailed from a room away by another "guard". Approach with watch/follow expansion allows for some serious tactical maneuvers by both raiders and caravans.
A few simple tweaks like this can make huge changes to realism and game play, and they are the exact types of details I want to see addressed.
Instead of all this advance silliness, why not give the commands to initiate combat an initial delay that is independent of movement delay, but whoever is initiating the attack will still remain delayed until movement delay is finished? Sneaking, of course, would have a chance to hide the initialization message.
That solution doesn't address any other proximity issues in the game, and, in my opinion, does a poor job of addressing it in combat, as well.
Maybe the approach code could be some form of variation on the adverbial commands code. Something like:
>guard amos. (Keeping a warry eye from across the tavern)
You begin guarding Amos the noble from a distance.
>approach Amos
You begin guarding Amos the noble from a safer distance
>halt
You halt your approach on Amos the noble
Amos the nobles perspective:
The burly man begins watching you from a distance, keeping a warry eye from across the tavern.
The burly man start approaching you.
>Think OH, it's just bob, my guard
you think "Oh, it's just bob, my guard
The burly man begins guarding you from a reasonable distance.
Then... back to bob.
The shady looking guy enters from below.
>think Who da hell's he?
You think: "who da hell's he?
The shady looking guy begins approaching Amos the noble.
>approach amos (stepping in front of ~shady
The shady guy approaches within a couple spans of Amos the noble
Stepping in front of the shady guy, you begin guarding Amos from a safe distance
You block the shady guy from approaching Amos the noble.
The shady guy bumps in to you, frowning he looks up at you.
From Shady guy's perspective:
You begin approaching Amos the noble
>think It's about time. Need to give him a message.
you think: "it's about time. Need to give him a message.
You approach within a couple spans of Amos the noble.
Stepping in front of you the burly man begins guarding Amos the noble from a safe distance.
You attempt to approach Amos the noble but the burly man blocks you!
>halt
You halt your approach on Amos the Noble.
>em bumps in to you, frowning he looks up at !burly.
You bumps in to the burly man, frowning you look up at him.
>stealthily draw blade
You stealithly draw a short, glistening blade blade.
>tell burly (holding up ~parchment) I have a message from Nobe Tightass for Amos.
Amos the noble says, in sirihish:
"Hmm? Let me see."
Amos the noble approaches within a couple cords of you.
>tell amos (handing out a parchment) The message...
You say to Amos the noble, handing out a parchment, in sirihish:
"The message..."
>quickly backstab amos
>say (jerking out with ~blade) Is DEATH!!
Jerking out with a short, glistening blade you say, in Sirihish:
"Is DEATH!"
The burly man tries to guard Amos but fails!
A bit long, and rough. But I think it illustrate a point... Maybe...
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 15, 2008, 04:32:35 PM
Maybe the approach code could be some form of variation on the adverbial commands code. Something like:
Stuff...
Man, I don't want to play chess. I want to play Arm...
Quote from: Shoka Windrunner on May 15, 2008, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 15, 2008, 04:32:35 PM
Maybe the approach code could be some form of variation on the adverbial commands code. Something like:
Stuff...
Man, I don't want to play chess. I want to play Arm...
I agree. I think "approach" code would just be a huge hassle, especially given some of the examples above, like having you approach just to talk to someone. I am not at all in favor of it, to be honest.
Quote from: manonfire on May 15, 2008, 12:35:14 PM
My ideas are to make combat more realistic. Period.
I didn't take into consideration any other extenuating circumstances when writing out the post, so there's undoubtedly a number of holes in the idea.
Edit: Bold for emphasis.
I do like some aspects of the "approach" idea. For anyone who has played the tabletop game "Burning Wheel", that is how I envision application of this idea.
Of course, you might get:
Malik > approach amos
Amos > retreat malik
Malik > approach amos
Amos > retreat malik
wash, rinse, repeat
But how would a person retreat from several "approachers" at once? While trying to hold formation? When their sargent is lagged? I love the idea, but it seems complex enough to be ripe for code-abuse.
I remember when I first came back to Arm (approx. 2001-02?), there was discussion on the GDB from a newb who followed an "elf" until he ran out of stamina (not understanding the stam code) and then was sumarrily killed for his newb coins.
Again, I love the idea of the approach code. But I would hesitate to put something like this into the game. It is one more hurdle for new players to learn before they can begin to enjoy the game.
Morrolan
Coded itches.
Your left wrist itches a bit. Scratch it.
Guess your trying to ignore it, huh? Well not your lower leg is starting to itch!
Your really concentrating on trying not to have to scratch yourself in front of the templar, huh? Your groin itches, a lot, unbearibly.
Scratch it...
Scratch it...
SCRATCH IT DAMNIT
Your vision goes black.
QuoteBut how would a person retreat from several "approachers" at once? While trying to hold formation? When their sargent is lagged? I love the idea, but it seems complex enough to be ripe for code-abuse.
As I envision the system there would have no ability to "retreat" from someone, but if someone you didn't know were to start approaching you, and have a weapon drawn, you might "watch" them, or perform some other defensive gesture that would prevent them from getting an advantage over you.
If you wanted to move from the area someone was occupying after approaching you, you would have to move somewhere else yourself (this was elaborated on when I originally proposed the idea), perhaps across the room (there would be at least 5 locations in every room: north, south, east, west, and center.), or to another table or object (which would also be placed within one of the five room locations). If the other character were "following" you, they would attempt to stay "approached" and follow you to the other part of the room. Same for "shadowing' while hidden and sneaking.
Also, can you explain how this could abused? I guess the "retreat" function would complicate things, but even if it were implemented in that manner, I imagine if you're trying to "retreat" or "approach" after you've "approached" and "followed" a leader you would just break ranks, stop following, no longer be "approached" to your leader, and lose any possible bonuses... Soldiers would be trained to hold rank and allow their leader to decide who to approach/attack/etc. Where does the problem come in?
QuoteI remember when I first came back to Arm (approx. 2001-02?), there was discussion on the GDB from a newb who followed an "elf" until he ran out of stamina (not understanding the stam code) and then was sumarrily killed for his newb coins.
Huh? Now I'm confused... How is this relevant?
QuoteAgain, I love the idea of the approach code. But I would hesitate to put something like this into the game. It is one more hurdle for new players to learn before they can begin to enjoy the game.
I think the implementation -could- be done very intuitively and -could- represent much less of a hurdle than many aspects of the current game.
I'm totally good with the current level of realism.
I wouldn't mind a more realistic combat system with injuries and all that. But, who am I to complain? I have been completely hooked lately :P.
Smell-O-Vision.
Coded illnesses and diseases with coded cures. Not fast acting stuff like poisons, but things you character can survive with, eleviate with the right 'herbs'/remedies/magicks or cure over time.
I want to see things happen to my character that I don't decide upon. By chance. Besides death.
I think I've stated this before somewhere, but I want to mention it again:
The world is going to go to crap. And there is going to be ruins everywhere, Krath there are ruins everywhere, wagons, burned out forts, destroyed villages, the 'Rynth...
What I'd like to see, is some of these ruins, caves, buildings, holes in the ground whatever, becoming visible for a time in game. As in the sand has uncovered the entrance to Steinal. But it's random. It's there now, and later, when you go back, it's not.
I would almost like for it to be, at least some of it, a coded sort of puzzle or some such, you walk across the desert, and the sand shifts, dropping you down into the top of the Storm's End Tavern in the Spice Den, because the roof gave way. And lo and behold you find a shit ton of spice. Some old ragged dun colored cloaks, a pair of cracking and faded grey leather boots...a plump prostitute...(just kidding...unless it was an undead plump prostitute, and that would be cool)
But now you got to get out. So you take the dirty ragged tapestries that used to hang from the ceiling. You craft them into a simple piece of rope, then you have to decide, how much spice can I carry and climb this piece of crap rope I found?
Just a quick example off the top of my head.
But this, besides just being an incredible story to share with everyone else, would just be awesome period. The old world wouldn't be totally gone. It would still be there. Just waiting for the Winds of Fate to lay them bare for a time. (I know everything that is being taken out would have to go, so the description of the rooms would have to be different. No mek bones or things like that, but calling them very large bones, would work and so forth)
Maybe you get really lucky...you fall through the roof of a Nenyuki Bank...
Things like this, would make me VERY happy. I always loved finding the random stuff while playing the Fallout games. It's awesome and one of the things I remember most fondly. However...I don't want to see a splattered mekillot with a flower pot on it's head. Heh. Just cool little tidbits from Arm 1. Making legends, and stories that will spread through cities. Treasure Hunters wandering the wastes. Excavations to refind Tek's tower...
You get what I'm saying.
I hear you, Shoka. That'd be fucking sweet. Nothing beats that sense of discovery. Or, as the case may be for players in 2.Arm, rediscovery of these old places.
I'd love an element of random discovery and adventure, especially, as Shoka posited, of artifacts and places from 1.Arm that remain in their ruined states in 2.Arm. Obviously, none of us know what the "end of the world" entails, but the idea of potentially stumbling upon the ruins of Luir's Outpost, five hundred years later, would be extremely exciting, to say the least.
Giving options like that for improvising ways in and out of situations would be absolutely excellent, too, so long as they're realistic. I'd love to play a Zalanthan Indiana Jones crossed with MacGyver.
When Gazarsgo and myself were attempting to make our own mud way back in 97-98, I was really keen on the idea of making a very large desert area where there would be a 'base' level, and then 'tides' of sand that would move up and down and shift position with the weather. This would create an ever-changing labyrinth of dunes, as well as allow for certain formations and ruins to be hidden or accessible at random times. You could even devise a system of digging within a layered area...
I definitely think it would be great... But I doubt it is something we will see.