Ok, we all know that one can know a noble because of the house ring. However, many times nobles cover their rings. This is hard for people (esp. new players and new noble charaters) because no one can recognize (out side of clothing) who is a noble.
My idea would be to allow code that would always allow the rings to be seen. Maybe some type of glove with a slit in the finger (ive seen these for women golfers) so that people know if they are looking at a noble.
I dont think this is nescessary. If a noble is hiding their ring, that means they are most likely hiding their station. If I was a king I wouldnt hide my crown, scepter, and family ring bearing my coat of arms if I expected everyone to bow to me.
They may -not- want to attract attention, or enemies, by flashing their ring of solid silver or steel or something.
If they get all antsy that you didnt bow to them, tell them they should make their ring more visible because there are lots of nicely dressed people around the city and you thought he was one. Then after he has his guards beat you up, you'll be all set.
A noble that expects to be recognized upon entering a room should have their servant or guard announce their presence. A loud, trained voice announcing "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Lord High MucketyMuck" should be plenty to get the attention and respect they wish/deserve or most within any room except the loudest (perhaps the Gaj - and they shouldn't be in there anyway). Even when the noble has no PC servants with them to do so, they always have the NPC guards that are perfectly capable of performing the same task.
That's all well and good, ash, and a great idea. However, I doubt any noble, guard, or servant is going to feel the need to announce the noble's presence to every commoner who walks in AFTER he's already been seated.
A lot of times, nobility wears gauntlets or gloves, and simply forgets to remove them to let people know who they are. Commoners shouldn't be faulted for that, and yet they also wouldn't want to point out to the offended noble that he made the mistake of keeping his status symbol covered.
In most cases, most nobles I've run into haven't had all that much of a problem with commoners not immediately recognizing them. But it does happen on occasion, and the player of the noble *should* take a moment to type "look me" to make sure that his status is visible before scolding anyone for not recognizing it.
Fuck that... if a noble wants to fuck with you, regardless of weather or not thier wearing trappings of a noble.. thats thier tek/muk given right...
When in doubt... treat them with respect.... if they are dressed very nicely, there is a chance that they are not a noble, but chances are better that they are..
Also, just because an items description doesn't depict a house insignia or whatever in the ldesc, it may in the main desc.... You can look and someones clothing, and the desc of the object, by l <person>'s <item> (notice the
's which is the key) this does not echo to the room, so you can look at all of thier clothing, without spamming the room..
Yea and stuff
-Moe the Schmoe
:evil: :twisted:
Also, once you've been around while you'll recognize all the NPC guards from the various houses, and also, in some cases, be able to distinguish noble gear from the gear issued to commoners.
I can only think of one or two people that travel with heavy guard entourages that dont deserve bows.
Merchant house people, a simple glance at their guards or them will reveal they are not a noble.
Some people recently have been dressed extremely nicely with high guard entourages.
I dunno, I figure...bow to those who are well-dressed and guarded, at least the first time. The worst thing that might happen is a noble or templar getting into a snit because some uppity commoner got bowed to. :twisted:
Honestly... if a non-noble rates guards.. and you don't... unless your a high ranking officer or someone who doesn't need guards.. I would give that person a healthy amount of respect... because pissing them off could have adverse affects as well, they may not make a public display or example of you as a noble would... but just because they smile and nod doesn't mean that they did not take offense...
Moe the Schmoe
:twisted: :evil:
Just to drop my two sids:
Awhile back the mud released documentation showing the relative positions and ranks of city and noble officals (perhaps someone can find the link?)
I find it increasingly annoying that everyone bows to every blue robe, lowly noble, and anyone with any sort of clout continuously.
If you see a Senator, a Red robe, a House head, or similar ranking, I'd bow in an instant, even if they don't see you.
If you present yourself to anyone of noble heritage, I'd bow in an instant.
If you come under direct questioning by any noble, I'd bow in an instant.
The problem is everyone seems to bow to everyone of rank EVERYTIME they see them. Across busy streets, through packed taverns. Everytime, all the time.
There are too many low ranking nobility to make that reasonable. If you do make a habit of bowing to all nobles and templars from all distant, I suggest you do the same for npc nobility and see how taxing it becomes.
*pling pling*
Yep, and every time the guy next to you stands up and bows, their action brings your attention to the noble, and then YOU have to bow.
You don't need to stand up and bow every time a noble or templar walks into the same area as your character. When addressing (or being addressed by) a noble there is the expectation that you show proper respect, but other then that this whole thing about not bowing to a noble who isn't paying you any attention (until the player of said noble notices someone in the room isn't bowing anyway, heh) being some grave insult is all player generated.
Its just like in the T'zai Byn.. it never fails there will be someone playing a Sergeant who insists to high hell that you are to salute on sight of a Sergeant and failure to do so is a grave show of disrespect. This is a player generated expectation, since it states right in the clan information that you're expected to salute when being addressed (or addressing) a Sergeant or officer and not the second they walk into the area.
I'm aware it could be said that the character is the type who notices every little slight or whatever, but its to the point where it has become more common then not for people in leadership roles/important positions to expect the unreasonable.
Just don't play along with it and the game world will be a much better place.
Well that is a sorta different situation.
Military mentality assumes you stand at attention when a commanding officer arrives in the room or on deck or whatever til told at ease or whatever.
And if I was an aide to house Borsail, and Senior Lord Borsail walked in, Id probably bow the moment I saw him.
now unaffiliated people bowing to a noble/templar on sight is strange.
This thread is rapidly becomming something that belongs in the roleplaying discussion group and here's my take.
If you are an unemployed commoner, or a working class grunt. A mercenary, or a stone/wood forager. It is absolutely ridiculous (character concept exceptions of course) to stand;emote bows respectfully to ~fluffynoble;sit at bar everytime a noble/blue robe walks into the tavern. It bothers the freaking hell out of me every time I see it. Almost more when you're the recipicant of such behavior.
For these such people, I'd leave it at a bow when spoken to kind of thing. Often times I won't go that far if, I'm unaffiliated they'll generally only get a dip of the head, perhaps "respectfully".
What strikes me as a grand shame is that there are some noble houses that demand such behavior of their servants. It just perpetuates the unrealistic behavior. I'm not going to be the one to start pounding the Armageddon Holy Bible here or anything, but those taverns (and streets) are damn well PACKED in the commoner's quarter. Its been said enough times already about not everyone facing the entrance and... there I go.. must...not...mention more...
Gah.. I've lot all coherency so I'm going to stop this post and start playing.
Easy solution - if someone else bows .... well then perhaps its safe for you as well.
I agree with only bowing when addressed for lower nobles/templars. But how do you know if someone is a lower noble? Templars are easy, but noble's aren't.
If people want to really bow THAT much, just bow when you walk in and leave.
I can see your point. If everyone bows, then the whole crowded tavern would have to get up and bow in a jumbled mess, and I think it'd look pretty ridiculous.
However, I can also see the templars, who have lots of power, forcing these low commoners to bow to them. They are fairly rare, after all, and it's not like there is one in each tavern at all times.
What do the imms say about it?
It's funny that you mention that it is ridiculous that the entire tavern gets up and bows .... so go and look, whenever a Templar walks in every PC gets up and bows, granted that's not EVERYONE (VNPCs or NPCs), but still ....
I think it's cause if one person bows EVERYONE feels they have to bow, or otherwise they'll get singled out.
My characters aren't usually very kind people, but I don't play dumbs too. so if someone is well-dressed. I call them "sir, ma'am". Then they may correct me, and I bow. If I'm not a thief, I don't usually look up at people and see the rings even they're visible. So the noble's character knows that I didn't specially examine their outfit, perhaps my head was inclined looking at my table.
If I was in a tyranny, it wouldn't be a bad idea to call "sire, lady" or even "mi'lord, mi'lady" to every well-dressed people. You're the dumb commoner and they're the ones with the pure blood. They may correct you, then you'll respect them.