Currently, one can completely heal from near-death to fully healthy in a matter of an in-game hour or two of sleep.
I suggest that the healing rate be modified to be slower the more greviously one is injured.
At half hit points and above, it could occur at the current rate.
The lower one goes below that, the longer it takes to heal up to the next hit point.
For example, if one is knocked down to 1 hitpoint, it may take an hour in game to reach 2. And another hour to reach 4. And another to reach 8. And so forth.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on June 12, 2009, 07:52:26 PM
Currently, one can completely heal from near-death to fully healthy in a matter of an in-game hour or two of sleep.
I suggest that the healing rate be modified to be slower the more greviously one is injured.
At half hit points and above, it could occur at the current rate.
The lower one goes below that, the longer it takes to heal up to the next hit point.
For example, if one is knocked down to 1 hitpoint, it may take an hour in game to reach 2. And another hour to reach 4. And another to reach 8. And so forth.
Too annoying for low playtime characters.
Too unbearable for low endurance characters. Try to regenerate hp/move with a low endurance elf and you will cry
What if we allow healing while off-line? (In the same way one sobers up while off-line now?)
I actually like this idea, but I think the combat system itself would have ot be changed to reflect it. A super slow regen rate, to me, would also mean a very fast, brutal combat system so that less injuries are incurred in a fight - 'cause when they are they'd be bigtime.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on June 12, 2009, 07:52:26 PM
Currently, one can completely heal from near-death to fully healthy in a matter of an in-game hour or two of sleep.
I suggest that the healing rate be modified to be slower the more greviously one is injured.
At half hit points and above, it could occur at the current rate.
The lower one goes below that, the longer it takes to heal up to the next hit point.
For example, if one is knocked down to 1 hitpoint, it may take an hour in game to reach 2. And another hour to reach 4. And another to reach 8. And so forth.
I like this idea. I think it would help the game.
On the surface, it would appear to be an annoyance. But I don't think it would be that annoying for a simple reason:
People would learn to think twice before getting into a fight.
The more violent and dramatic that combat is, the more of a barrier to entry there is for people who don't have a significant motivation or grudge to settle.
It would elevate the level of strategy employed in game combat.
In my opinion, it would help to separate the men from the boys.
I dig this idea. it would make it more realistic.
Fast HP regen is currently only possible in one or two outdoor zones (if it's not storming) and indoor zones.
Try recovering HP quickly anywhere else in the game, and you'll be sadly disappointed.
Personally, I think HP/stamina regen in the grasslands should be seriously nerfed. I've had fights where I lost 20-30 HP and I was back to excellent condition before I finished emoting my skinning job.
I'm going to toss out... That people on Zalanthas are supposed to be tough.
*runs for cover*
Yes, this and all the other ideas for making things more difficult, are awesome to make the game "better" for people who already know how to play, who have already gotten bored with how it is now, and whose experience with playing has made things easy for them and they want a challenge.
Unfortunately, people who have not played as long, or played combat characters as often, if at all, are the ones who will find it even more difficult than it already is. And for those of you who have forgotten, it is difficult. Just because you are now veterans or well seasoned and know how to get past the code, doesn't mean it's easy. It just means it is no longer challenging for -you.-
Quote from: MarshallDFX on June 12, 2009, 08:20:18 PM
I'm going to toss out... That people on Zalanthas are supposed to be tough.
*runs for cover*
Yes...
Playability and enjoyability FTW.
I think the fact that our characters can already die and not get a respawn with experience loss is already enough to prevent anyone from getting into fights they can't handle. Armageddon already separates the men from the boys by being one of the few games out there that have permanent death fully implemented.
Also, think of it this way - it'll ruin the economy since hunters can't hunt half as often.
Do not want. Not with the wildlife we have right now.
In a world without tarantulas, I'd say it isn't a bad idea...but I hate to use boredom as the mechanism for enforcing reality.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on June 13, 2009, 12:42:58 AM
...but I hate to use boredom as the mechanism for enforcing reality.
No.
I think I did cry several times with the last celf I played and the last half-elf when resting in only stinging sand, warm day it took half an IC day to regen 10hp.
Even with high end PCs regen can be brutal in most areas of the game.
No...Please no.
Playability > realism.
I'm really torn.
On the one hand, I would love the added realism and the additional terror in fighting. I would also love the need to have a doctor on the field.
But on the other hand, it would hurt impatient players who don't want to deal with the long regen times, and those players are important to the game.
I can't vote for one above the other.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on June 16, 2009, 05:08:32 PM
On the one hand, I would love the added realism and the additional terror in fighting. I would also love the need to have a doctor on the field.
I really, really agree here. The problem in my book is that, even in clans like the city militias or House Tor, PCs often DO get injured pretty seriously doing routine things Outside. If we're no longer going to blow off major hitpoint loss, a look needs to be taken either at rebalancing things or at changing how missions are run.
I think permdeath is brutal enough, and enough of an incentive not to get into low HP. Someone that cuts it that close all the time, is probably not going to live very long anyway. I don't have a ton of experience with combat, so I can't say much more, but I usually prefer playability over realism, and a longer regen time would probably cause me more boredom than I would find interest in.
I'm all for a lower rate of healing.
If you don't want to wait forever to heal up to, then be smart and don't wait until you're bleeding profusedly to run from a fight. It's really not that hard.
Quote from: valeria on June 16, 2009, 09:28:16 PM
I think permdeath is brutal enough, and enough of an incentive not to get into low HP. Someone that cuts it that close all the time, is probably not going to live very long anyway. I don't have a ton of experience with combat, so I can't say much more, but I usually prefer playability over realism, and a longer regen time would probably cause me more boredom than I would find interest in.
I agree with this position.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on June 16, 2009, 10:32:25 PM
If you don't want to wait forever to heal up to, then be smart and don't wait until you're bleeding profusedly to run from a fight. It's really not that hard.
Tell that to the green pc that just walked outside Merchant's Gate, only to be reel-locked by a black beetle in room #12435.
This change would benefit old characters and paralyze new ones.
Quote from: Eloran on June 16, 2009, 11:10:15 PM
This change would benefit old characters and paralyze new ones.
Agreed completely. I'd love harsher, I'd love more use put into physicians etc. Unfortunately I think all the younger pc's would just get wtf pwned. Not so bad in the north but the sands in the south are near suicide to youngins.
The only way I would support such a change:
1) The addition of a "stem" command that allows one to stop the flow of bleeding. I believe all guilds that fight regularly, i.e. warriors, assassins and rangers should have such an ability. There would be a high success rate, and it would not heal hps, though it would stop further loss of blood. (Of course, this idea all rides on whether or not the blood_loss code were kept in the game as a normal factor, as opposed to a player's dunce cap. If SM's idea is put into place without blood_loss, stem is obviously not needed)
2) Bandage must be fixed. It is currently broken. I don't care how much of a novice I am and putting gauze over a wound and sealing it tightly shut, I should not half my current hit points on a critical failure with newbie bandage. That's utterly rediculous. The loss of hit points should be lessened to a fraction of what they are currently.
Hell, I think a more fair alternative would be for failures to ruin the bandage, not your flesh. How can you screw a bandage up so bad that your tear your wounds?
Without the above, I don't see the op's idea working in the slightest. It would simply be too much to ask of the playerbase.
I'd rather see changes made to allow for people with less playing time to still be able to play and enjoy the game. I vote no to -anything- that slows the game down further.
Slowing the game down is a big downer, you're right. People with hours to spare have a big advantage over those who play sparingly.
Even as someone who usually gets around eight hours a day in, I strongly agree with the last two statements.
if you can only play for an hour or two, waiting on a thirty minute regen, would be a joy-kill.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 17, 2009, 03:17:31 AM
if you can only play for an hour or two, waiting on a thirty minute regen, would be Is a joy-kill.
ftfy
Alright, the message is clear. People don't want this. Thanks to all who replied.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on June 18, 2009, 06:10:35 AM
Alright, the message is clear. People don't want this. Thanks to all who replied.
I'm personally not -entirely- opposed to the idea, like I said. I think your proposed idea would be a bit too harsh, but perhaps a median would be fine. However, this wouldn't sit well with me until other issues are addressed first.
Quote from: Eloran on June 18, 2009, 09:21:03 AM
this wouldn't sit well with me until other issues are addressed first.
Exactly this.
I think certain areas of the game should be brought more in line with other areas of the game.
Hell, when there's no storm out, you heal faster out in the open in the Grasslands than you do if you're sitting in a tent.
There might be an IC reason for that. Granted, you would think the Xytrix Za would work in the same way, but it doesn't.
More realistic healing rates would be nice, especially if it makes physicians more useful, but I'm more wary about the how this would unbalance things. It's a tough thing to implement. If you're a solo newbie hunter, a slower healing rate would mean starving to death. And if the hunters starve to death, a lot of other people will too. Warrior/guard types who spar could actually have more fun with it, but it's not good for people who do fight for a living.
I've notice over the past few years that physicians tend to have a shorter life expectancy than assassins, or even Byn sergeants.
You're hanging around the wrong physicians. I know two IG with my character, both which have been around for quite a while.
Edit to add: Not that I think this'd make this idea worthwhile.
Im not in favor of this until something changes. I don't have a solution, im not sure what should be done, if anything.
Currently though, if healing rates were slowed it would be a huge ass pain for any southern hunters. As it stands, my 25 day combat class is still getting royally destroyed by scrab more often than not. A mainstay of southern hunting fodder, scrab, and 25 days playtime in I have a 50/50 chance of killing them. Usually taking injuries to the point where that one scrab is all that can be brought down before needing to stop the hunt.
Until you can have 25 days played with a combat character and not get slaughtered by a scrab, well, I am not for slowing the rate of healing whatsoever.
Quote from: Dan on June 21, 2009, 10:15:15 AM
Until you can have 25 days played with a combat character and not get slaughtered by a scrab, well, I am not for slowing the rate of healing whatsoever.
Warriors are the only southern combat class. :'(
Quote from: Dan on June 21, 2009, 10:15:15 AM
Until you can have 25 days played with a combat character and not get slaughtered by a scrab, well, I am not for slowing the rate of healing whatsoever.
Pickpocket and Burglar are not "combat" classes. Assassins kill people, not animals. Warrior/Ranger should have no problems killing scrab after only a few days.
What scrab have you been fighting? Scrab are tough if you have 0 defense, but damn, they're not that tough.
Ideally I would like more realistic physical recovery for realism, but that would kill the playability. Not too long ago I had a human with AI endurance who recovered so quickly it was stupid. Unfortunately slowing normal regeneration would likely would result in a rise of both 1) maxed physicians with "magick" bandages that can somehow mend broken bones and broken skulls and 2) more Vivaudians and the general Zalanthan more readily wanting to have them around to heal them. Even if you slow regen, people are going to want to kill stuff, will get hurt, and will still need a way to recover. I don't like either of the above points in a low-magick game. If the mindset/documentation changed so that #1 was explainable and #2 was more acceptable, it just might work.
Quote from: Sephiroto on June 21, 2009, 02:22:57 PM
Quote from: Dan on June 21, 2009, 10:15:15 AM
Until you can have 25 days played with a combat character and not get slaughtered by a scrab, well, I am not for slowing the rate of healing whatsoever.
Pickpocket and Burglar are not "combat" classes. Assassins kill people, not animals. Warrior/Ranger should have no problems killing scrab after only a few days.
What scrab have you been fighting? Scrab are tough if you have 0 defense, but damn, they're not that tough.
Not even 40-day warriors are scrab-proof. :(
Right. Never say never. But statistically they are. I see no reason to derail further about scrabs.
Let's talk about bleeding and how/if we want to change it.
Some of us don't think it needs fixed.
Around 8 or 9 years ago Ness cut regen in half across the board. I did not much like the change, mostly because I was playing a very high end dwarf...and his regen was near magickal. After the cut though, it was just impressive.
Since then I have played other races and I really think the current rate of regen should make all of you happy. An ave end human will take most of an IC day to regen 20 HP outdoors. And since Humans are the standard, I think that is a fine balance with realism and playability.
Please leave out the exceptions that really should be too IC to mention on the GDB...though some already have.
Yeah, I have to agree that the rate of healing is fine as it is.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 22, 2009, 01:14:58 AM
Yeah, I have to agree that the rate of healing is fine as it is.
Thirded.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 21, 2009, 04:01:44 PM
Not even 40-day warriors are scrab-proof. :(
Lol, I always thought that scrabs were the typical things for newbies to hunt, tarantulas were sort of the 15-day hunt :P
Meh, some low endurance guys take the whole day to regen with sleep. Very annoying especially considering what kind of fights low end guys get into. The really high end guys regen like a T-1000. They could really take a beating, but even when dropped to less than half life, they could just sit for lunch and regen fully.