I would like to see either the tribal accent or a location specific accent for PCs started or playing from Luirs. That location is a melting pot of cultures. They should not be defined as Northerners.
I would also like to see a new accent for the Red Stormer. This is a completely different location than Allanak and they also should not be defined as Southerners.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on August 08, 2013, 05:47:41 PM
I would like to see either the tribal accent or a location specific accent for PCs started or playing from Luirs. That location is a melting pot of cultures. They should not be defined as Northerners.
I would also like to see a new accent for the Red Stormer. This is a completely different location than Allanak and they also should not be defined as Southerners.
I am so on board with this. Especially if you were to make Luir's accent tribal, given that the nomad's helpfile specifically says:
"Nomads,
usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost, speak their own native tongue as well as Bendune."
Emphasis mine, of course. And, of course, the part where from most of the echoes, the vast majority of people from in/around Luir's that are NOT members of Kurac -are- tribals. The market also represents this well with the huge array of tribal vendors and relative scarcity of GMH vendors.
But it would be awesome though, because it could make a significant difference in how things go for... well, really any pc that is NOT a Tuluki whose inks give them away right from the start.
Sounds like an awesome edition.
Yeah, that would be pretty great.
But like many things that would be great, it has been suggested before and ignored.
Still, it would be pretty great.
if we're going to add accents, I want a whole lot more than just a Luir's specific accent.
I want dialects for different upbringing within cities. I mean, there's hundreds of thousands of people in these city states, you'd expect dialects.
I want a diversity of accent choices in Tribal accents, so that Arabetis and gypsies and run of the mill nomads don't all have the same generic accent.
Etc. etc.
I've never viewed "tribal accent" as sounding the same from one tribe to the next.
I try to think of it as "a tribal accent".
On Topic:
I would like to see those who start in Luir's being able to choose between Northern and Southern accent.
If you aren't Kuraci, odds are you don't -live- in Luir's, so I don't think Luir's should have it's own accent. Luir's is not a city or village where people plant themselves and spawn the next generation (this would be a requirement for a common recognizable accent to develop) but a centralized trading outpost where people come, buy, sell, drink, eat, smoke, kank, then go back out again.
I would NOT like to see people who choose Luir's as a starting location get Tribal accent.
We have coded clans, subguilds and special applications for those who wish to play a character from a nomadic tribe (which is what starting with that coded accent means).
I'm actually perfectly fine having luirs and tuluk be north, and Storm, and Allanak be south. What's wrong with that, exactly?
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 08, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
I would like to see those who start in Luir's being able to choose between Northern and Southern accent.
+1
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 08, 2013, 07:42:51 PM
I'm actually perfectly fine having luirs and tuluk be north, and Storm, and Allanak be south. What's wrong with that, exactly?
Northern and Southern accents developed in Tuluk and Allanak respectively.
Most people who chose Tuluk as a starting location will be from there, the same with Allanak and the Labyrinth.
People who chose to start in and frequent Luir's could be from anywhere.
People who chose to start in Red Storm, are either from Red Storm (a village that formed more than a few King's Ages ago which is more than long enough for a separate dialect/accent to have formed) or have fled there from somewhere else, not necessarily Allanak, for a variety of reasons.
You know what? That makes me think that Strom needs their own too.
I would much, much rather luirs got its own accent than to have them be able to choose between north and south. But as is I think it's good for luirs to be "northern". I would prefer it to stay that way.
Totally on the side of having accents for Luirs and RS be different.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 08, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
On Topic:
I would like to see those who start in Luir's being able to choose between Northern and Southern accent.
If you aren't Kuraci, odds are you don't -live- in Luir's, so I don't think Luir's should have it's own accent. Luir's is not a city or village where people plant themselves and spawn the next generation (this would be a requirement for a common recognizable accent to develop) but a centralized trading outpost where people come, buy, sell, drink, eat, smoke, kank, then go back out again.
I would NOT like to see people who choose Luir's as a starting location get Tribal accent.
We have coded clans, subguilds and special applications for those who wish to play a character from a nomadic tribe (which is what starting with that coded accent means).
Actually, a tribal accent pretty much means you've been around tribals long enough to talk like one, if it did not, then it would -always- come with bendune (which it does not, and can be learned seperately from), or bendune would -always- come with the tribal accent, which, afaik, is not the case, I believe caravan guides get bendune but no tribal accent. I see nothing wrong with people who were raised in a place which is full of tribals in the market and the surrounding lands to have a tribal accent. It's not like they'd be starting with bendune, after all. It's an accent, not a language, and in my experience, accents are notoriously easy to pick up compared to languages.
But who, other than Kuracis, would be raised -in- Luir's?
Your starting accent is what you were taught as a child, not something you picked up along the way.
From your earlier doc quote:
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on August 08, 2013, 06:14:44 PM
"Nomads, usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost, speak their own native tongue as well as Bendune."
Emphasis yours.
Originating in the tablelands around Luir's =/= raised within the walls of Luir's outpost.
As far as I know, Luir's doesn't have any permanent residences available for the virtual non-Kuraci population to live any more than for PCs.
It still seems to me that even with a starting location of Luir's Outpost, your character would still be -from- somewhere else.
I am not totally against being -able- to take Tribal accent if you want to start in Luir's, but I certainly don't think it should be the default, either.
There's only so much that can be gained by adding more accents... because then it takes away the mystery, which I have -always- liked about the basic, "north/south" accent system.
Rather than add new accents to old areas... I want new areas. ;)
if the choice is between "more accents" or "keep it as is," my vote is solidly for "keep it as is."
I hadn't thought about choosing one of the three main accents. That'll do absolutely fine.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 08, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
I would like to see those who start in Luir's being able to choose between Northern and Southern accent.
+1
Same goes for Red Storm too - both Luirs and Red Storm have a huge transitory population - and should not be forced to have a particular accent.
In other words - its easier than creating a PC in a certain starting location just to get the correct accent for your PC, and then having to move your newbie PC to the actual location you want to be playing in.
Quote from: Incognito on August 09, 2013, 03:28:08 AM
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 08, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
I would like to see those who start in Luir's being able to choose between Northern and Southern accent.
+1
Same goes for Red Storm too - both Luirs and Red Storm have a huge transitory population - and should not be forced to have a particular accent.
In other words - its easier than creating a PC in a certain starting location just to get the correct accent for your PC, and then having to move your newbie PC to the actual location you want to be playing in.
make it like the beginner traders/tattooist rooms, where an npc asks you where you wish to hail from. At which point you could also get the appropriate tattoos/accent if you start at either luir's or red storm.
Quote from: Da Princess on August 09, 2013, 04:38:19 AM
Quote from: Incognito on August 09, 2013, 03:28:08 AM
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 08, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
I would like to see those who start in Luir's being able to choose between Northern and Southern accent.
+1
Same goes for Red Storm too - both Luirs and Red Storm have a huge transitory population - and should not be forced to have a particular accent.
In other words - its easier than creating a PC in a certain starting location just to get the correct accent for your PC, and then having to move your newbie PC to the actual location you want to be playing in.
make it like the beginner traders/tattooist rooms, where an npc asks you where you wish to hail from. At which point you could also get the appropriate tattoos/accent if you start at either luir's or red storm.
+1
Yes.
If the Rinth, a part of Allanak, can have their very own accent/dialect then why should everything else in the south that isn't in Allanak be forced to have the same accent. Same with Tuluk, why isn't there a Warrens accent or something. And no, Luir's should not be lumped in with a Northern accent just because they're above the Mason-Dixon line of Zalanthas. IRL each state has their own accent and even different accents depending where in that state you're from; where I live I can tell what county someone is from just by their accent. The same with other countries like the UK, someone from Southall does not have the same accent as someone from London. But, I guess the argument could be made and you just have to have some leeway with your RP, like the way a lot of people play dorf-speak for instance.
or maybe just do away with hardcoded accents and let the player decide
Quote from: i can haz mantis on August 09, 2013, 10:08:38 AM
If the Rinth, a part of Allanak, can have their very own accent/dialect then why should everything else in the south that isn't in Allanak be forced to have the same accent. Same with Tuluk, why isn't there a Warrens accent or something.
I'm not so sure of this, because the Labyrinth is all but completely shut off from the rest of Allanak both physically and socially.
The Warrens of Tuluk are more open in both aspects. The people there are still considered full commoner citizens, and can come or go in the rest of the city as they please.
Tuluk simply needs an accent for the upper crust, leave all the common folk to speak basic northern accent.
An accent for "Outlanders" would be something useful for Luir's, unless the tribal accent already accounts for this. I do agree that it'd be convenient for those starting in Luir's and even Red Storm to be able to choose an accent given the transient nature of many of the players that live there.
On the one hand, a Luir's accent would be awesome. A Red-storm accent would be pretty cool, as well. I'm all for it.
On the other hand, a "Northern" accent is a kind of tribal accent. So is the "Southern" accent. So we probably shouldn't read too much into the name "tribal" accent.
Players may know this -- it's in the Arm Chronology (http://www.armageddon.org/world/chronology.php) that both South and North are made up of tribes that were brought together After the Time of the Dragon.
AFAIK, characters should only learn this fact IG.
I like the idea of a Luir's accent.
The short, fat puertorrican says, in luirsian-accented sirihish "I was born and raised in the Post."
I'm on the fence about Luir's having its own accent. Theoretically, Luir's exists because of tribes, with heavy emphasis on traders and nomadic merchants. So Luir's might be considered the Ohio of accents - which is to say, the non-accented accent. Everyone else hearing someone from Luir's would hear - "this guy doesn't talk like me, but he doesn't really have an accent of any type at all so I'm not sure where to place him in the Known."
Red Storm, on the other hand, is historically the rogue/criminal/outcast outpost of the world. It's where all the unwanted gather in a wary but peaceful co-existence. If anything, they might share a rinthi accent, or some kind of cant.
So if it were up to me, Luir's would have -no- accent at all, and no matter who you are, you would hear that person from Luir's speaking with no particular accent. And the rinth and Red Storm would share an accent, but the name of it would change, to reflect the inclusion of Red Storm.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
Red Storm, on the other hand, is historically the rogue/criminal/outcast outpost of the world. It's where all the unwanted gather in a wary but peaceful co-existence. If anything, they might share a rinthi accent, or some kind of cant.
+1
I feel like not all rogue's would talk the same way if they're not in some way connected. The only way I would see Red Storm sharing a Rinthi-ish accent would be if most of the denizens of Red Storm descended from Rinthis. I'm for a separate Storm accent and a letyoupick Luir's accent.
That's the whole point. If you aren't Kuraci, you're not born and raised in the Post.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
And the rinth and Red Storm would share an accent, but the name of it would change, to reflect the inclusion of Red Storm.
Um... nah. The slums of New York and the Wild West did not share an accent just because every other person is a murderer or thief. The Rinth is only one of Many places Stormers and their ancestors came from, and considering most Rithers would never have the means to afford passage to Storm, I highly doubt it would even be a significant contributor to its immigration numbers.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
... Luir's would have -no- accent at all, and no matter who you are, you would hear that person from Luir's speaking with no particular accent ...
I like this, actually, but think it should only apply to Kuraci Family Members, and perhaps those who spend time around them could pick it up. It could simply be the neutral accent on your skill list.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 10, 2013, 10:49:26 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
And the rinth and Red Storm would share an accent, but the name of it would change, to reflect the inclusion of Red Storm.
Um... nah. The slums of New York and the Wild West did not share an accent just because every other person is a murderer or thief. The Rinth is only one of Many places Stormers and their ancestors came from, and considering most Rithers would never have the means to afford passage to Storm, I highly doubt it would even be a significant contributor to its immigration numbers.
Bah, what was I thinking there too when I agreed with that.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on August 10, 2013, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
... Luir's would have -no- accent at all, and no matter who you are, you would hear that person from Luir's speaking with no particular accent ...
I like this, actually, but think it should only apply to Kuraci Family Members, and perhaps those who spend time around them could pick it up. It could simply be the neutral accent on your skill list.
That would work.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on August 10, 2013, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
... Luir's would have -no- accent at all, and no matter who you are, you would hear that person from Luir's speaking with no particular accent ...
I like this, actually, but think it should only apply to Kuraci Family Members, and perhaps those who spend time around them could pick it up. It could simply be the neutral accent on your skill list.
+1
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on August 10, 2013, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 10, 2013, 08:47:59 AM
... Luir's would have -no- accent at all, and no matter who you are, you would hear that person from Luir's speaking with no particular accent ...
I like this, actually, but think it should only apply to Kuraci Family Members, and perhaps those who spend time around them could pick it up. It could simply be the neutral accent on your skill list.
-1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
This is absolutely not how accents work. The far more typical scenario for ultra cosmopolitan types is not that they always fit in, but rather, they always sound like they're from someone else. The American who spends 10 years in Britain doesn't suddenly fit in in both Britan and the U.S. No, to Brits they sound like Americans, and to Americans they sound like Brits.
There's no such thing as "no accent" anyway. Under the present code, perceiving no accent means they're speaking your accent (which is how it should be, compared to real languages). For everyone to perceive no accent, they would have to have some sort of mindbendery or magickal powers.
The way the code works now, if someone is currently speaking with the same accent as you, you don't get an accent identifier in their say or tell. If Luir's got a 'neutral' accent, how would you like that to be reflected?
The spiced-up Kuraci says, in Neutral-accent Cavilish,
"We're so neutral in political matters, you can hear it even in our voices."
The spiced-up Kuraci takes another hit from his massive hookah of awesomeness.
Quote from: catchall on August 10, 2013, 11:14:39 AM
The American who spends 10 years in Britain doesn't suddenly fit in in both Britan and the U.S. No, to Brits they sound like Americans, and to Americans they sound like Brits.
It would be REALLY awesome if this were reflected in the code.
Even once you can sound like a northie to everone who was not raised in Tuluk, it would be IC years before you could pull off a convincing accent to a true inked Citizen.
The dark-skinned, shaven-headed man says, in an attempted northern accent,
"Nah, Faithful Lord. I'm from the warrens, I swear!"
The tall, crimson-haired Jihean Templar narrows his eyes at the dark-skinned, shaven-headed man and simply shakes his head before raising a hand to tok-slap him to the floor.
Deleted.
There is no such thing as 'no' accent. An accent that isn't particularly quirky or obvious is still an accent, it's just a 'boring' one.
The accent code could be fleshed out in so many ways, and be all down for seeing more accents IG. It could be that there are sub accents for each part of the world...So if you're Northern...you'll always see a southern accent as southern (whether it's RS, 'Nak, 'Rinth, Whatever)....but if you're southern, you'd notice if someone was 'Rinth or noble (yuh they should have their own) RS or whatever. Which seems realistic to me...Most Americans can tell I'm british, but they can't pin down what kind of british...whereas there are a million different british accents and I can tell the difference between all the of them.
Would see Luirs and tribals as a bunch of 'midlanders' and the North being pretty much Tuluk, with maybe different accents for different parts of Tuluk, warrens vs. middle class vs. nobles vs. surrounding farmlands/wood chopping villages.
Quote from: Maso on August 10, 2013, 07:19:50 PM
There is no such thing as 'no' accent. An accent that isn't particularly quirky or obvious is still an accent, it's just a 'boring' one.
The accent code could be fleshed out in so many ways, and be all down for seeing more accents IG. It could be that there are sub accents for each part of the world...So if you're Northern...you'll always see a southern accent as southern (whether it's RS, 'Nak, 'Rinth, Whatever)....but if you're southern, you'd notice if someone was 'Rinth or noble (yuh they should have their own) RS or whatever. Which seems realistic to me...Most Americans can tell I'm british, but they can't pin down what kind of british...whereas there are a million different british accents and I can tell the difference between all the of them.
Would see Luirs and tribals as a bunch of 'midlanders' and the North being pretty much Tuluk, with maybe different accents for different parts of Tuluk, warrens vs. middle class vs. nobles vs. surrounding farmlands/wood chopping villages.
I really agree with this, save that I'd still like to exclude Luir's from the northern accent - either have it's own or none (as others have pointed out, non-Kuraci in Luir's are from elsewhere typically and are more or less transient). Red Storm isn't such a mishmash of cultures - most are from Nak originally, so to have it under the southern umbrella with it's own offshoot flavour accent/dialect makes sense to me.
Could also give linguists the ability to pick up the more subtle language differences straight off the bat, and perhaps even allow non-native speakers to eventually pick up those nuances if they really spend enough time listening to one (or more?) of the accents in question.
The midworlder accent should include a lot of "Oh yeah?" and include lines like"You did all of that for a little money?"
It would be cool if different regions had different little colloquial quirks, besides greetings. Some of the regional quirks in the UK are brilliant.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 08, 2013, 10:38:48 PMBut who, other than Kuracis, would be raised -in- Luir's? ... As far as I know, Luir's doesn't have any permanent residences available for the virtual non-Kuraci population to live any more than for PCs.
Quote from: BuNutzCola on August 10, 2013, 10:43:07 AMThat's the whole point. If you aren't Kuraci, you're not born and raised in the Post.
That's a very popular misconception, held by many players unfortunately. However, there is nothing in the documentation or the game itself to support that theory, outside of the fact there's no PC housing. Which I'll remind everyone doesn't define whether a location has its own population, given apartments themselves came much later in the game's history.
In contrast, there
are several indications that there is an existing local population in Luir's. First off, there's citizenship available. What that offers exactly is not something that can be discussed on the GDB, but in and of itself, it exists as evidence of non-Kuraci citizens. Second, there's the shanty-town of the Bailey, which virtually does support a small population in and of itself. Third, there are the various independent sellers in the market. Not all of those people live in their shops, nor do their families, so they do reside somewhere. Perhaps the bailey, perhaps within the walls of the Outpost. Fourth, it exists as a starting location. No area that has been added by staff as a starting location doesn't support its own population. If it was only Kuraci's that lived there, that would be handled by staff directly for the Da's and Di's and the rest would simply travel there to be hired. It wasn't added just for the sake of convenience.
And lastly, there's the following snippet from the helpfile (http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Luir%27s%20Outpost)on Luir's Outpost:
"After the Fall of Tuluk, Luir's Outpost became crowded with fleeing refugees, and the population tripled almost overnight. The small outpost was the scene of tragedy as news of deaths arrived from the north, joy as loved ones who survived were reunited, and horror as House Kurac was forced to close the gates eventually, to maintain control of the outpost. Although many of those who flooded to the Outpost have since left, either returning to the north or making their way south, the population is still much larger than it was before the Fall."The above quote in and of itself pretty much openly states that Luir's Outpost supports it's own population of non-Kuraci locals. One that tripled after the Fall of Tuluk, but remained much larger than it was even after many refugees migrated. Now the misconception as I see it stems from three key points:
- Citizenship issues
- Lack of obvious virtual housing in the rooms of the outpost
- Lack of PC apartment availability
While I personally don't feel PC apartments would add much to the feel of the Outpost, the first and second points I think are something that could be addressed in the future by staff. At the very least, some visible and virtual buildings could be shown to indicate a local population. That said, buildings do exist, they're just not far enough in people's faces to get the point across. As for citizenship, it's a tricky situation but it's one that I believe can be eventually sorted out by staff, with much of what it would entail already present in the code for some years now. Either way... Luir's does have a population of its own. Until some of the above issues can be addressed by staff, it's up to players to stamp out the misconception.
As far as an accent goes, I'd prefer to see a tribal accent or its own accent, as opposed to being able to choose between northern and southern, so that it's not used as a starting destination by players wishing to circumvent their roots. Between the two, I'd probably go with a tribal accent because it's what's most commonly heard around there. As far as Red Storm... It's as deep in the south as you can get, so I don't have much issue with them having a southern accent. Perhaps it could be changed to be a "deeply-southern accent" or a "southern drawl" but I for one could live with it as is, only because geographically it makes sense.
Also, for those stating Luir's should have no accent at all, regardless of the socio-geographic implications of that, it's not currently possible with the code in place. A lack of accent is what you get when someone's using the same accent you are. So if those from Luir's had no accent, it would suggest to anyone that heard them that they're using the same accent as them. Be they northern, southern, tribal or desert elf. Obviously, that won't work.
At best, if a lack of obvious accent was what staff wanted to suggest, they could have a "nondescript accent". But I still hold either a tribal or tribal-esque accent would be both more appropriate to the culture and local population, and frankly more interesting as well. Population-wise the Outpost is New York; a melting pot. And I think everyone knows just how thick a New York accent can be.
Edit: Perhaps it could be just that in fact... Thickly, heavily, or sharply-accented. Would make a lot more sense than a lack of accent at all, which I continue to be believe isn't the case. There's simply too many accents present in the local culture for there to be no accent, if anything it would end up being more heavy than "purely" northern or southern accents.
Wow. Well thought out. I like the research.
I think I'll have to change my position in light of BuNutzCola's post, given that it's all correct.
I'd totally support different accents for both Luir's and Red Storm, now.
Quote from: Feco on August 11, 2013, 03:43:15 PM
I think I'll have to change my position in light of BuNutzCola's post, given that it's all correct.
I'd totally support different accents for both Luir's and Red Storm, now.
wtf?
I like "a deep-southern accent" for RS.
I'd prefer a take on tribal for Luirs, so there is a distinction between the actual tribal accents and what would be a more amalgamated version from life within the walls, with a twinge of civilisation.
Quote from: Is Friday on August 11, 2013, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Feco on August 11, 2013, 03:43:15 PM
I think I'll have to change my position in light of BuNutzCola's post, given that it's all correct.
I'd totally support different accents for both Luir's and Red Storm, now.
wtf?
What?
I was under the impression that there wasn't much of a native population to the outpost, and the idea of an accent developing just seemed odd. If ByNutzCola is correct, I think that a distinctly "Luir's" accent is perhaps called for.
I hadn't yet chimed in on Red Storm. Wanted to throw out there that I like the idea of some sort of distinct accent there.
I suppose I disagree with his solution, but his build-up made me rethink my position.
Quote from: Feco on August 11, 2013, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Is Friday on August 11, 2013, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Feco on August 11, 2013, 03:43:15 PM
I think I'll have to change my position in light of BuNutzCola's post, given that it's all correct.
I'd totally support different accents for both Luir's and Red Storm, now.
wtf?
What? I was under the impression that there wasn't much of a native population to the outpost, and the idea of an accent developing just seemed odd. If ByNutzCola is correct, I think that a distinctly "Luir's" accent is perhaps called for.
Right attitude, wrong attribution. But it's all good, glad you agree at least. ;)
You're so lost, Feco.
Quote from: Ouroboros on August 11, 2013, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: Feco on August 11, 2013, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Is Friday on August 11, 2013, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Feco on August 11, 2013, 03:43:15 PM
I think I'll have to change my position in light of BuNutzCola's post, given that it's all correct.
I'd totally support different accents for both Luir's and Red Storm, now.
wtf?
What? I was under the impression that there wasn't much of a native population to the outpost, and the idea of an accent developing just seemed odd. If ByNutzCola is correct, I think that a distinctly "Luir's" accent is perhaps called for.
Right attitude, wrong attribution. But it's all good, glad you agree at least. ;)
Oh, well, I can see how that would cause some confusion.
Must have misread the topic summary when posting.
Actually... how the fuck did I do that? Am I drunk?
Not drunk enough.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯