I'd like for all city rooms to be quittable for everyone, with an automatic quit-out after ten minutes of idleness, or ten minutes again after that if my linkdead or abandoned PC was too excited to leave the first time.
For me, this is a clear-as-spades playability issue. I occasionally have to leave the computer quite suddenly. But it would also mean that my noble won't have to ICly enter the Gaj's public sleeping quarters when I the player am in a hurry: it would further separate the OOC concept of qutting out from the IC concept of sleeping. I think this would be a Very Good Thing.
Example:
:Pulling the reins to his chest @ rears his ratlon and rides then off into the sunset.
w
quit
Okay, that was a joke to prove a point. Real example:
:Heads into the crowds.
w
quit
So many good uses, yet so many abusive uses.
Main Gates of Allanak [NESW]
The tall, muscular soldier says to the short man, in sirihish
"You there, I need to check your pack."
The short man thinks, "Oh shit I have lockpicks."
The short man has departed from the land of Zalanthas.
I think Quit rooms are close enough together in the city that it only takes about a minute or so to walk to them, and if you're a noble or someone that wouldn't be sleeping in the sleeping area, do this from the sleeping area to the main area of your tavern:
direction (stepping in from the street)
Most people will understand this and RP as if you were virtually out of the tavern the entire time, and not asleep in the sleeping area.
Why not a 'quit now' feature that takes 60 seconds to actually 'quit' ?
Quote from: mansa on June 26, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Why not a 'quit now' feature that takes 60 seconds to actually 'quit' ?
Hey, not a bad idea.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 09:29:36 AM
So many good uses, yet so many abusive uses.
Main Gates of Allanak [NESW]
The tall, muscular soldier says to the short man, in sirihish
"You there, I need to check your pack."
The short man thinks, "Oh shit I have lockpicks."
The short man has departed from the land of Zalanthas.
Seriously? This is taking it a bit far, and is not likely to happen. Chances are, if someone has some contraband and is asked for his pack to be searched, he could already run off to the nearest quit room and leave the game. What you have described here is not an issue.
I think quitting off in every room is a decent idea, though I'm not entirely convinced it's even necessary in the city. Getting to a quit room in the city doesn't take more than five minutes, no matter where you are. As long as you don't have the combat timer running down or anything, though in that case being able to quit in a quit room or in the middle of the street doesn't make a difference.
The real debate is quitting in the wild, I think, though that's an entirely different beast.
Quote
Seriously? This is taking it a bit far, and is not likely to happen. Chances are, if someone has some contraband and is asked for his pack to be searched, he could already run off to the nearest quit room and leave the game. What you have described here is not an issue.
No, I wasn't serious about that particular example and I trust most people will do the right thing. But, people do occasionally quit to evade justice or some other negative effect on their character. I've seen it happen quite a few times.
I think that in general, putting more places to quit is unnecessary as there are plenty, and adding the ability to quit anywhere in cities could possibly effect the game negatively.
Quote from: mansa on June 26, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Why not a 'quit now' feature that takes 60 seconds to actually 'quit' ?
In most places in all the cities, this would take longer than spam-walking to a quit place and quitting, if you're in a rush to quit.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: mansa on June 26, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Why not a 'quit now' feature that takes 60 seconds to actually 'quit' ?
In most places in all the cities, this would take longer than spam-walking to a quit place and quitting, if you're in a rush to quit.
So there is no issue with this possible addition to the code?
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: mansa on June 26, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Why not a 'quit now' feature that takes 60 seconds to actually 'quit' ?
In most places in all the cities, this would take longer than spam-walking to a quit place and quitting, if you're in a rush to quit.
Not all people have the time to walk to a quit place. I'd do quit now and be able to leave and let the computer idle for 60 seconds.
Quote from: mansa on June 26, 2009, 10:46:32 AM
So there is no issue with this possible addition to the code?
If a 'quit now' feature as described was to be added in, I have no issue with it. I'm saying that if it's faster to just move to a quit room, people probably wouldn't use it most of the time. And that there probably wouldn't be any effort put into creating a feature that would barely be used.
Quote from: Jenred on June 26, 2009, 10:57:09 AM
Not all people have the time to walk to a quit place. I'd do quit now and be able to leave and let the computer idle for 60 seconds.
Fair enough. The time is pretty tiny if you're in the city, but fair enough.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 10:34:55 AM
Quote
Seriously? This is taking it a bit far, and is not likely to happen. Chances are, if someone has some contraband and is asked for his pack to be searched, he could already run off to the nearest quit room and leave the game. What you have described here is not an issue.
No, I wasn't serious about that particular example and I trust most people will do the right thing. But, people do occasionally quit to evade justice or some other negative effect on their character. I've seen it happen quite a few times.
I think that in general, putting more places to quit is unnecessary as there are plenty, and adding the ability to quit anywhere in cities could possibly effect the game negatively.
I'm of the opinion that the people who are going to do this already do. As you've said, it already happens. Reporting these people to the imms is the best way to handle the situation, in my opinion, and I've seen it dealt with before.
The vast majority of players right now don't abuse the quit command and I don't think making quitting more accessible would change that.
But again, that's only my opinion, and if you've had more bad experiences with it than I have, then it's easy to see why you might not agree.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 11:38:10 AM
Fair enough. The time is pretty tiny if you're in the city, but fair enough.
Someone has never played in Tuluk.
Quote from: Eloran on June 26, 2009, 09:52:29 PM
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 11:38:10 AM
Fair enough. The time is pretty tiny if you're in the city, but fair enough.
Someone has never played in Tuluk.
Even in Tuluk, the taverns are pretty evenly spread apart.
If by evenly spread apart you mean one hundred rooms between each, then yes, that's correct.
My humor is failing today. That's two strikes.
Quote from: Eloran on June 26, 2009, 10:11:25 PM
If by evenly spread apart you mean one hundred rooms between each, then yes, that's correct.
My humor is failing today. That's two strikes.
Heh.
Honestly, I could go one way or the other on this issue. I'm just pointing out possible problems that could pop up with its implementation.
I would like to see just a couple of new quit-safe rooms in each of the two cities, actually. There are two southern gates in Tuluk, each of which has a pretty long walk to the nearest publically-accessible quit-safe room, and no stables anywhere near. Might be nice to add a stables somewhere between the two, down along that southern stretch. Would be especially useful for partisans of northern nobles who go out and gather things for them, but who aren't actually employed by them and therefore aren't allowed to keep their mounts stabled on the noble estate property.
In Allanak I'd like to see even a single quit-safe room, somewhere within 30 game rooms of the eastern (merchant) gate, inside the gates (as opposed to outside). And definitely a stables on the east side of the city for the public.
I would love the addition of more quit rooms in the game. It's always been my opinion that anybody should be able to quit anywhere. If all rooms in a city were quit safe (even if it came with a 60 second delay!) it would be amazing.
Quote from: mansa on June 26, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Why not a 'quit now' feature that takes 60 seconds to actually 'quit' ?
This, where most things happening to or from your character during the delay, is awesome. I hate having to spam-walk to the nearest quit-zone without emotes or thoughts, skipping things that I would usually stop and stare at, because I need to leave
right freaking now. Also, just in case you're way out in the middle of nowhere and can't afford to sit and idle for an hour while you see to a mild IRL emergency.
This is a good idea.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2009, 09:29:36 AM
Main Gates of Allanak [NESW]
The tall, muscular soldier says to the short man, in sirihish
"You there, I need to check your pack."
The short man thinks, "Oh shit I have lockpicks."
The short man has departed from the land of Zalanthas.
Sounds like rangers.
It would get abused.
Quote from: Eloran on June 27, 2009, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: number13 on June 27, 2009, 03:20:50 AM
It would get abused.
Explain?
The slight, bearded man shouts:
Thief! Thief!!!
>think OH SHIT, he saw me!!!
>quit
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 27, 2009, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Eloran on June 27, 2009, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: number13 on June 27, 2009, 03:20:50 AM
It would get abused.
Explain?
The slight, bearded man shouts:
Thief! Thief!!!
>think OH SHIT, he saw me!!!
>quit
Again. That is a terrible reason, and I hope you're kidding.
He asked for an explanation on how it can be abused and I gave him one.
So no, I am not kidding, it -could- be abused that way.
Quitting in random rooms inside the city is like quitting in the wilderness for rangers...
Would you -sleep- in the middle of caravan road right outside the Gaj?
No? Then you shouldn't be able to quit out in the middle of caravan road right outside the Gaj.
Quote from: LauraMars
I would love the addition of more quit rooms in the game. It's always been my opinion that anybody should be able to quit anywhere.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 27, 2009, 05:59:40 PM
Quitting in random rooms inside the city is like quitting in the wilderness for rangers...
Would you -sleep- in the middle of caravan road right outside the Gaj?
No? Then you shouldn't be able to quit out in the middle of caravan road right outside the Gaj.
Wrong. Quitting out has nothing to do with your PC going to sleep. Quitting is OOC. Going to sleep is IC.
Have you ever seen someone log out in a tavern and emote leaving?
I want:
quit (Heading out into the street behind a group of mercenaries
It'd be nice if you could quit out in every room and the quit message varied based on room type.
City street:
The yuku-haired, quirri-eyed lass wanders off into the crowd.
Taverns:
The milling patrons of the tavern briefly obscure the numut-lashed large-groined man as he scours the tavern, looking for a table.
Apartments:
The mega-breasted tembo-eyed woman lays down for a nap.
Wilderness:
The rangy, peshek-haired youth disappears into the distance, moving slowly.
etc.
MAGICKER MAGICKER
Or time affected ones.
The tall, muscular man heads to morning devotions.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 28, 2009, 02:56:13 PM
The tall, muscular man heads to morning devotions.
How do you know that's where he's going?
More quit rooms, inside and outside cities, would be great. I don't think I'd want every (or almost every) city room to be a quit room.
I don't think I'd like this.
It would be very useful for newbies, especially during the sandstorms. Newbies don't have any sense of where to go in Allanak or Red Storm, unlike the veterans who can spam walk into a quit room without seeing anything.
And if you want to talk about twinking, a lot of the current twinkishness is already on people who steal every coin and a waterskin from a link dead newbie who doesn't know where to quit.
What are the reasons against an idea like this, again?
Quote from: mansa on June 28, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
What are the reasons against an idea like this, again?
I haven't fully thought through all of the pros and cons of the ability to quit -anywhere- within a city, but one reason that immediately comes to mine is player dilution. Forcing players to quit in specific locations, especially social gathering centers like taverns, indirectly creates traffic lanes and player exposure -- it increases the likelihood of seeing other players if you frequent certain locations.
And this just currently "happens" naturally in-game, so it's difficult to really imagine what would be different if those indirect "benefits" were removed. And I say "benefits" from the perspective of the game. The forced exposure works against player dilution and further creates opportunities that you may not have been expecting or planning.
I enjoy sitting in taverns, knowing there will be a general ebb and flow of character traffic as players log in and out of the game. So, while I don't see any harm in increasing the number of viable quit-safe locations, ideally placed in social gathering centers, I could see some potential harm to the game by making the entire city zone quit-safe.
-LoD
I don't think people are attracted to the taverns -because- there is a quit room. I think the quit rooms in taverns are because people don't want to walk elsewhere, after they are done playing the game.
Consider World of Warcraft. You can quit -anywhere-. However, the most popular places to gather are at the bank, or at the gates of ironforge, or other areas that people can and do hang out at. They naturally gather with themselves, despite having a world-wide quit area, rather than a 'quit in ironforge only' area.
I believe that ArmageddonMUD needs to have a shift in the ease of playability in the game, whether that be in the current game and/or the future game.
This is one feature that is expected in any current roleplaying game, and is an artifact leftover in the MUD realms that should be buried in the past, along with recall scrolls, death traps, levels, static npcs, and rooms unchanged in over a year.
Aside from Tuluk and sections of Allanak that are rarely used, there just isn't any place within a law-enforced city that's more than 20 seconds away from a quit-safe room. I don't see what the problem is.
Hey, simply put, should a friend knock on my door I'm not looking to spend even ten seconds hitting 'n','e','n', 's'. I'd be more happy if I could simply leave my computer and know that the game would log my character out in ten minutes. I'd also be giddy with joy if I could type 'quit' and leave our game whenever I wanted, with a few restrictions - excitement. Wouldn't such freedom be a great load off our collective backs?
Some players see more quit rooms as an alternative. For the same reasons as above I would disagree, but more quit rooms would help. Within the cities I'm currently often beyond 60 seconds of a quit-safe room, worse if I'm on a mount. Cutting that down would rock. But why can't we just quit anywhere?
Smuz notes that this change would be useful for players who do not yet know their way around our maps. I agree!
LoD and Mansa make excellent points! Quit rooms concentrate players around the quit rooms, but gathering spots logical ICly are likely to see large traffic all the same.
Mansa also suggests an alternative: city-wide quitting with a 60-second waiting period. This would be awesome if we could get noting else. But why can't we just quit anywhere?