Something I've noticed whenever I play a wilderness type of character is that I find a lot of non-aggro mobs left to die or who are unconcious. I have to know, what is the reason for doing this? It's a jarring thing to find a bunch of beaten up or nearly dead creatures, honestly. I can understand doing so to aggressive creatures as a warning or whatever reason, but it makes no sense to do this to friendly ones. There is no reason that I can find to just leave them there because I doubt the individual(s) who did it are going to bother coming back for the scraps. I also doubt most Zalanthans would be considering grebbers either, just saying.
Thoughts?
I know of a couple of reasons why you might see this:
1. People who don't really need any pieces of dead animals, but still do need to work on their offense, or parry, or sword use, or throwing skill, other coded skills, etc. They don't want to kill the thing, they just want to use it for target practice.
2. Aggro mobs that chase these critters around, pound on them til they fall unconscious, and the aggro's code thinks the critter is dead and it moves on to aggro on something else.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 28, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
I know of a couple of reasons why you might see this:
1. People who don't really need any pieces of dead animals, but still do need to work on their offense, or parry, or sword use, or throwing skill, other coded skills, etc. They don't want to kill the thing, they just want to use it for target practice.
2. Aggro mobs that chase these critters around, pound on them til they fall unconscious, and the aggro's code thinks the critter is dead and it moves on to aggro on something else.
I don't think #1 is an actual legit issue. If anything, people count on respawn of mobs for their character's work/training, and a mortally wounded beast is indefinitely incapacitated without respawn and isn't of use to anyone. There's more incentive to finish them off.
Edited to add: I guess beasts beat to unconsciousness could be left for twinkish recycling, but its not something I've actually seen happen.
I know I do it out of maliciousness, mostly to deny other players the ability to use it for training because you can't gain anything from it and it won't respawn quickly #petty
Also killing blows lag you out for a bit, so if you're impatient like me you just walk off and leave it for dead.
Quote from: yousuff on August 28, 2018, 05:35:02 PM
I know I do it out of maliciousness, mostly to deny other players the ability to use it for training because you can't gain anything from it and it won't respawn quickly #petty
Also killing blows lag you out for a bit, so if you're impatient like me you just walk off and leave it for dead.
Wait, what did I just read? That's ridiculously OOC and abusive.
Quote from: crymerci on August 28, 2018, 05:43:36 PM
Quote from: yousuff on August 28, 2018, 05:35:02 PM
I know I do it out of maliciousness, mostly to deny other players the ability to use it for training because you can't gain anything from it and it won't respawn quickly #petty
Also killing blows lag you out for a bit, so if you're impatient like me you just walk off and leave it for dead.
Wait, what did I just read? That's ridiculously OOC and abusive.
I'm joking :) The main reason (at least for me) is the laggy latter part.
Stop trolling, man.
Some aggressive creatures drive other critters to neg hp. So its common to find that. Unfortunately/fortunately npcs at 0hp or negative do no deteriorate, or regen. So they are stuck there.
Consider placing a mention about it in the "improvement of mud" thread?
I guess I am curious as to how it's okay to just go running around, beating up non-hostile mobs until they're nearly dead, and just leaving them there.
Gotta train charge and trample somehow.
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 29, 2018, 01:52:16 AM
Gotta train charge and trample somehow.
So, you'd be fine with me training backstab on orphan kids in the Rinth then?
Train it on random Allanaki NPCs like a real man.
Alrighty, train charge and trample on Grey Forest critters like a real man.
Quote from: Strongheart on August 29, 2018, 04:13:42 AM
Alrighty, train charge and trample on Grey Forest critters like a real man.
I just want to state I find the back and forth between you and Metekillot very amusing. Real men train backstab on Allanaki soldier npcs or Red Storm mul guards ;D Sun Runners exist for trample and charge training.
Personally, I used to leave certain aggro mobs mort-wounded because they were poisonous or extremely dangerous and respawned at the cyclic rate, so I did it as a sort of IC/OOC favor to noobs, so they didn't get instagibbed.
Doesn't apply to non-aggro mobs, but...*shrug*.
Quote from: Synthesis on August 29, 2018, 10:09:16 AM
Personally, I used to leave certain aggro mobs mort-wounded because they were poisonous or extremely dangerous and respawned at the cyclic rate, so I did it as a sort of IC/OOC favor to noobs, so they didn't get instagibbed.
Doesn't apply to non-aggro mobs, but...*shrug*.
I was gonna say, I know people leave the 'rinth npc's mortally wounded just so they won't respawn, which I always found incredibly stupid.
Quote from: Synthesis on August 29, 2018, 10:09:16 AM
Personally, I used to leave certain aggro mobs mort-wounded because they were poisonous or extremely dangerous and respawned at the cyclic rate, so I did it as a sort of IC/OOC favor to noobs, so they didn't get instagibbed.
Doesn't apply to non-aggro mobs, but...*shrug*.
I don't mean to be petty, but it confuses me that you would say this because on another thread you just said that you think NPCs heal very quickly from a mortally wounded state.
From https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Desert%20Elf%20Roleplay
"For the same reason, most desert elves would be wary of over-hunting. Not for ecological reasons, but because if they share the territory with any other tribes, which they probably do, then consuming more than their fair share of resources could create a lot of hostility and territory wars."
I remember reading others, but I don't really want to search them all down. There are IC reasons to want to not kill everything, either from documentation or from an individual character's motivations.
I think this is largely NPC behavior, not player behavior. Except in certain circumstances such as the kagor murder road.
Quote from: yousuff on August 29, 2018, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: Strongheart on August 29, 2018, 04:13:42 AM
Alrighty, train charge and trample on Grey Forest critters like a real man.
I just want to state I find the back and forth between you and Metekillot very amusing. Real men train backstab on Allanaki soldier npcs or Red Storm mul guards ;D Sun Runners exist for trample and charge training.
;)
Quote from: cnemus on August 29, 2018, 12:51:08 PM
From https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Desert%20Elf%20Roleplay
"For the same reason, most desert elves would be wary of over-hunting. Not for ecological reasons, but because if they share the territory with any other tribes, which they probably do, then consuming more than their fair share of resources could create a lot of hostility and territory wars."
I remember reading others, but I don't really want to search them all down. There are IC reasons to want to not kill everything, either from documentation or from an individual character's motivations.
What I am trying to say is that there is no documented reason for some PC to beat down mobs who are non-hostile and leave them unconcious or wounded.
Quote from: Miradus on August 29, 2018, 02:33:12 PM
I think this is largely NPC behavior, not player behavior. Except in certain circumstances such as the kagor murder road.
I disagree and have found these are the actions of PCs given that the region I have seen this done in holds non-aggressive creatures only.
Quote from: Armaddict on August 29, 2018, 10:56:51 AM
Quote from: Synthesis on August 29, 2018, 10:09:16 AM
Personally, I used to leave certain aggro mobs mort-wounded because they were poisonous or extremely dangerous and respawned at the cyclic rate, so I did it as a sort of IC/OOC favor to noobs, so they didn't get instagibbed.
Doesn't apply to non-aggro mobs, but...*shrug*.
I was gonna say, I know people leave the 'rinth npc's mortally wounded just so they won't respawn, which I always found incredibly stupid.
I can forgive this type of behavior, it makes more sense. If and only if these Rinthi NPCs are aggressive mobs that are open to attack others, leaving them to bleed out or unconcious has IC implications that whoever took this thing out is bigger and badder than that thing.
I really can't answer then unless you're disclosing the region and the mobs you're finding incap.
For me, I don't normally leave anything alive unless it's a kagor or snake which I incap as I'm moving through. Anything else I'm killing for a purpose and I want the skin/hide/meat/bones. Even if I'm just twinking on a non-hostile mob, I still want what it yields and I definitely want it to be there later when it respawns and I pass back through the area.
Quote from: Miradus on August 29, 2018, 04:45:59 PM
I really can't answer then unless you're disclosing the region and the mobs you're finding incap.
The Pah is the most notable in memory, but I know I've seen similar activities all over.
Quote from: Strongheart on August 29, 2018, 03:25:36 PM
What I am trying to say is that there is no documented reason for some PC to beat down mobs who are non-hostile and leave them unconcious or wounded.
While there are potentially abusive ways to train skills, there are what seems perfectly reasonable practicing motivations to do this followed by perfectly reasonable motivations to not kill it. Catch/release fishing is a real-world correlation. A hunter wants to get better at hunting, but not RPly kill off the population. I don't want to give examples of what I consider unrealistic, that line will fall in different places for different people, but as long as you keep your actions reasonable for your character, I see no problem with it.
A decent chunk of these unconscious mobs likely are NPC on NPC violence, but I can say with certainty it is not exclusively the cause.
A character coming across such an unconscious creature has choices in how to react to it, disgust at waste, opportunity for free stuff, or even a cuddle-buddy for the night [joking, don't perv on NPCs that can't react]. If someone is repeatedly doing something unrealistic or exploitative, staff will notice. We as players can have our characters react how we feel is appropriate and if you want to hunt down the people doing this and do something about it because it offends your character, go for it.
Hmm, touché.
How is stabbing something up so bad that it would reasonably bleed out if it weren't an NPC in any way a valid roleplaying strategy of being ecologically friendly?
Byproduct of excess, maybe?
Ya'll are surviving too easy.
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 29, 2018, 05:49:53 PM
How is stabbing something up so bad that it would reasonably bleed out if it weren't an NPC in any way a valid roleplaying strategy of being ecologically friendly?
'Ecologically friendly' on Zalanthas can just mean 'I don't want to waste these resources, I'll save it for later.'
Quote from: cnemus on August 29, 2018, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 29, 2018, 05:49:53 PM
How is stabbing something up so bad that it would reasonably bleed out if it weren't an NPC in any way a valid roleplaying strategy of being ecologically friendly?
'Ecologically friendly' on Zalanthas can just mean 'I don't want to waste these resources, I'll save it for later.'
Then why, from an in-character perspective, would you even attack it in the first place?
Quote from: Delirium on August 29, 2018, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: cnemus on August 29, 2018, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 29, 2018, 05:49:53 PM
How is stabbing something up so bad that it would reasonably bleed out if it weren't an NPC in any way a valid roleplaying strategy of being ecologically friendly?
'Ecologically friendly' on Zalanthas can just mean 'I don't want to waste these resources, I'll save it for later.'
Then why, from an in-character perspective, would you even attack it in the first place?
Because grievous hits make
me my character hard.
What is the point of this thread? Part trolling. Part Snobbing. Part Shaming.
Quote from: Delirium on August 29, 2018, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: cnemus on August 29, 2018, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 29, 2018, 05:49:53 PM
How is stabbing something up so bad that it would reasonably bleed out if it weren't an NPC in any way a valid roleplaying strategy of being ecologically friendly?
'Ecologically friendly' on Zalanthas can just mean 'I don't want to waste these resources, I'll save it for later.'
Then why, from an in-character perspective, would you even attack it in the first place?
Simply put, I see it as perfectly IC to practice hunting and taking down a creature to get better at hunting and taking down creatures. I have had IC interactions where other characters teach mine how to track, spot, kill, and clean a 'harmless' [non-aggro] creature and follow it up with, practice doing this to get better, but if you don't need the resources, don't kill it.
My personal line of comfort is it is fine to practice fighting on non-aggro creatures as 'hunting practice', but when you start intentionally giving yourself disadvantages just to fail, it feels unrealistic. I personally prefer PC to PC sparring for training, but that playstyle depends on many things (playtime, location, ability to clan). If a player plays in off-peak, low population areas, or low interaction roles they have to decide for themselves how their character would train and I don't judge them for attacking creatures, even if they have a reason not to kill them, though I reserve the right to react in an IC manner to their behavior. I feel that a thief might beat down a sentient NPC to take their stuff and leave them alive because they aren't a murdering psychopath, I feel a hunter might beat down a creature to get better at fighting and not kill it because they try to manage resources. I think that this [not killing creature] mentality is more common among desert elves and tribals. This belief is from my interpretation of documentation.
The OP was asking why a player might not kill or finish off a creature. I was just saying, there are docs, which I quoted previously, stating why at least one group might not kill a creature, but they might still want to fight a creature, for any number of reasons.
This stuff used to go on east of Tuluk too, so it's a legitimate thing. Probably not a troll post.
I think whoever initially answered your post is pretty close to it though. Without having the luxury of evaluating mob scripting and what not.
I always just thought that the insanely strong twelve people in the game who ride out get attacked, sit there on their mounts waiting until the thing stops attacking them because they are bleeding too much, and then ride away to wherever they were going, because they don't have the patience or the time to dismount, skin and pack up everything when they aren't going to use most of the kill.
Quote from: sleepyhead on August 29, 2018, 11:13:35 AM
Quote from: Synthesis on August 29, 2018, 10:09:16 AM
Personally, I used to leave certain aggro mobs mort-wounded because they were poisonous or extremely dangerous and respawned at the cyclic rate, so I did it as a sort of IC/OOC favor to noobs, so they didn't get instagibbed.
Doesn't apply to non-aggro mobs, but...*shrug*.
I don't mean to be petty, but it confuses me that you would say this because on another thread you just said that you think NPCs heal very quickly from a mortally wounded state.
I never said that. I said they heal incredibly quickly...once they're in a state where they can heal. I had forgotten that they changed the way the bandage skill works, so that you can't bandage NPCs out of the mortally-wounded range anymore.
This normally happens for me when I've forgotten to turn Mercy off. I'm not going to type kill and waste 25 seconds or whatever the lag is, not unless my end goal was to skin the creature. Most the time this occurs with aggressive creatures.
The reason you keep it 'almost dead' is so that another animal can come along and finish it. You're basically giving an offering to the wastes and any animals out there who are hungry. Most animals naturally will not eat another animal that has been dead because rotten meat is dangerous, and animals inherently know this. However, if something is simply badly wounded, this is extremely attractive to an animal, because it's a very easy meal, and they know it isn't bad.
It may be crude, but it is effectively, from an IG standpoint, explaining why even though these animals should be afraid of people and know the area, that they keep coming back. Because these people sometimes leave easy meals just lying around for them.
And that, my friends, is the IC reason.
Nessalin's code addition: NPCs at 1 hp or less will now heal. :) (http://nessalin's%20code%20addition:%20NPCs%20at%201%20hp%20or%20less%20will%20now%20heal.%20:))
Interesting code edition. Thanks.
Most if not all reasonable/sensical responses! Thanks for this.