Do we have cats in Zalanthas? Are they common?
Quirri
Those aren't cats :P
Quirri are the most feline creatures in the Known. They are also sometimes domesticated. Otherwise, no, no cats.
I really wish Arm had dogs.
Just so I could call people dogs.
Kiyet Lion : Large and powerfully-built, kiyet are well known for their tawny, heavily-spotted fur and long, sharp claws. Kiyet, or lions, typically inhabit the reaches of the Barrier Range mountains. They are unusually social compared to other felines of Zalanthas, living in packs consisiting of females, offspring and few adult males. Kiyet are known to be remarkable hunters as they work in a group. Their hide is prized for its short, velvety fur and suppleness when tanned as well as the prestige of having successfully taken down such a dangerous predator.
Kalich : About waist-high to a human and with a wiry physique, these sand cats are strictly found in craggy, sandstone cliffs and ravines. Their fur is dense, shorter then the average feline on Zalanthas and ranges in shades of dusky red, yellow-grey, and earthy brown. Most distinctive about kalich are their elogated tails that give them exceptional balance; large, triangular ears; and tufts of fur that cover and shield their paws from hot surfaces. Kalich are known to be solitary hunters, surviving off small desert game and insects.
Quirri : These lithe black felines are generally found in the tablelands of the northwest. Their pelts are prized for their luxurious, soft fur. Occasionally, one has been tamed to serve as an exotic pet, but they are often unpredictable, and may lash out at an owner.
Rantarri : This ferocious man-sized predator is known for its luxuriously spotted pelt, stealthy nature, and powerful pounce, using its lethal claws and teeth to tear into its prone target. It mainly feeds on game animals, though attacks on humanoids have been reported. Stories tell of elusive desert tribes who worship this powerful feline, and of others who hunt it for its claws and naturally camouflaging fur.
Meow!
Quote from: Jingo on August 22, 2011, 01:51:43 AM
I really wish Arm had dogs.
Just so I could call people dogs.
Gortok : A common type of canine in the northlands, the gortok are well-known as wild predatory scavengers with a strong pack mentality. They are not known for particular intelligence or cleanliness, but are quite hardy, capable of loping great distances after their slowly tiring prey before moving in with their vise-like jaws. Their hides often become an all but useless mass of scar tissue due to the constant fighting amongst themselves or the wounds recieved during a hunt.
Quote from: Jingo on August 22, 2011, 01:51:43 AM
I really wish Arm had dogs.
Just so I could call people dogs.
Calling someone a tok or a tok-whore has worked wonders for me... Gor-tok = closest thing you have to it.
What about gwoshi? I've always thought of them as resembling huge lions.
Always saw em as a cross between gorilla + lions.
Bears with manes myself. Maybe I need to review that mdesc.
I agree, bears mixed with lions is how I imagine them.
Only with much longer hair than either.
By design (i.e., on purpose) there are not really any "cats" or "dogs" in Zalanthas. There are wild animals who would like to eat your face off, though.
Gortoks are like a mixture of hyenas and dogs to me.
Quote from: Talia on August 22, 2011, 11:24:27 AM
By design (i.e., on purpose) there are not really any "cats" or "dogs" in Zalanthas. There are wild animals who would like to eat your face off, though.
True, but there has been at least one PC with a pet quirri NPC that followed him around. It was coded like a guard an was really neat.
Then someone killed it in the Gaj and Gladiator to grief them. Heh
You probably have noticed we don't have NPCs like that anymore. "By design."
True, but it's nice to reminisce on it. I remember when I was playing a certain Tor bastard walking around with the Silver Maned Gortok, but it was really old so I think it was put to rest after that character.
I don't understand the reluctance to have "cats" or "dogs" when we have "rats" and "snakes" and "spoons" and "humans". Pet quirri and gortoks just added flavor to the game.
Quote from: Old Kank on August 22, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
I don't understand the reluctance to have "cats" or "dogs" when we have "rats" and "snakes" and "spoons" and "humans". Pet quirri and gortoks just added flavor to the game.
We have also taken out pet quirri and gortoks to add to the flavor of the game.
I always imagine gwoshi as really big lhasa apsos.
(http://www.completedogsguide.com/images/dog-breeds/largepic/Lhasa-Apso.jpg)
Quote from: Nao on August 22, 2011, 11:52:59 AM
Gortoks are like a mixture of hyenas and dogs to me.
My imagine of gwoshi:
Bear shaped and maned, yet with strangely humanoid faces.
I, too, take things out of an equation, to give it more fullness, and make it appear richer.
Zalanthas is harsh, gritty, and a fantasy place. People having domesticated dogs is not something that 'adds' to this to me. Gortok are wild, feral, hideous things that do not domesticate well. Kurtoks were removed from the game because they were not in line with documentation and added nothing but Yet Another Unique OOC Status Symbol that ICly would have dozens of repercussions that were not roleplayed out by many who had them: feeding it, training it, keeping it in check, a place to keep it, people to keep it entertained, cleaning it, caring for it, cleaning up its messes... by and large PCs would just parade them about taverns/whatnot, or they would just keep them locked up in their clan compounds never to be seen.
There are plenty of pet objects in game these days and still many of them are ignored and only bought because they 'look cool.' Very few peoples' hawks poop on their shoulders, cause a ruckus, fly away, cry out and reveal their position while hunting, or are used as anything other than shoulder/apartment ornaments, never referenced with emotes except when it's fun and convenient to.
tl;dr I don't want to see happy, fluffy, frilly shit any more than I have to, and that should be with the nobility alone - people who have the means to take care of them - and the few rare exceptions that fit that bill. I don't want to see puppies and kitties in my Zalanthas.
My contribution:
I <3 kitties
Quote from: Wasteland Raider on August 22, 2011, 05:15:57 PM
Zalanthas is harsh, gritty, and a fantasy place. People having domesticated dogs is not something that 'adds' to this to me. Gortok are wild, feral, hideous things that do not domesticate well. Kurtoks were removed from the game because they were not in line with documentation and added nothing but Yet Another Unique OOC Status Symbol that ICly would have dozens of repercussions that were not roleplayed out by many who had them: feeding it, training it, keeping it in check, a place to keep it, people to keep it entertained, cleaning it, caring for it, cleaning up its messes... by and large PCs would just parade them about taverns/whatnot, or they would just keep them locked up in their clan compounds never to be seen.
There are plenty of pet objects in game these days and still many of them are ignored and only bought because they 'look cool.' Very few peoples' hawks poop on their shoulders, cause a ruckus, fly away, cry out and reveal their position while hunting, or are used as anything other than shoulder/apartment ornaments, never referenced with emotes except when it's fun and convenient to.
tl;dr I don't want to see happy, fluffy, frilly shit any more than I have to, and that should be with the nobility alone - people who have the means to take care of them - and the few rare exceptions that fit that bill. I don't want to see puppies and kitties in my Zalanthas.
"I WAS RAISED IN THE WILD BY A PACK OF GORTOK. GRAWRRRR."
I find cats to be very zalanthan, honestly. :)
rabble rabble rabble get off my lawn
cats = egypt = zalanthas
get off MY lawn you stupid kid
Quote from: Delirium on August 22, 2011, 11:32:17 PM
cats = egypt = zalanthas
get off MY lawn you stupid kid
Odd urge: dwarven sorcerer who unleashes ten plagues upon Allanak to try to win the freedom of the dwarven slave population
Quote from: hyzhenhok on August 23, 2011, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: Delirium on August 22, 2011, 11:32:17 PM
cats = egypt = zalanthas
get off MY lawn you stupid kid
Odd urge: dwarven sorcerer who unleashes ten plagues upon Allanak to try to win the freedom of the dwarven slave population
+1
Life in the cities has always been markedly different from life in the wilderness. Nothing can further truly delineate and exhibit that difference quite like domesticated animals. And they certainly don't have to be nice and fluffy, but frankly... if there were noble lapdog type creatures, exotic and unusual animals that wouldn't survive an hour outside the gates, it would just serve to further the notion of how different cities are from the wilderness.
Quote from: Intrepid on August 23, 2011, 01:19:58 AM
Life in the cities has always been markedly different from life in the wilderness. Nothing can further truly delineate and exhibit that difference quite like domesticated animals. And they certainly don't have to be nice and fluffy, but frankly... if there were noble lapdog type creatures, exotic and unusual animals that wouldn't survive an hour outside the gates, it would just serve to further the notion of how different cities are from the wilderness.
I can see how you could argue there should be cats or cat-like domesticates, as Zalanthan cities are crawling with vermin.
But as pets? That is largely a modern phenomenon. Domesticates that are kept for pleasure and serve no useful purpose are an anachronism.
if there were domesticated animals in Nak, I ,as a rinthi, would hunt, steal and eat them.
Quote from: hyzhenhok on August 23, 2011, 01:43:13 AMI can see how you could argue there should be cats or cat-like domesticates, as Zalanthan cities are crawling with vermin.
But as pets? That is largely a modern phenomenon. Domesticates that are kept for pleasure and serve no useful purpose are an anachronism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basenji#History
Thousands of years, my friend. And there's a wide belief among students of the Paleolithic Era that dogs were domesticated before humans. ;)
Animals were bred for certain tasks. They don't need to be limited to pets by any means, but I could see a few ending up in noble possession. Some animals could serve as additional vermin, while others could be hunting aids or beasts of burden. And for a city like Nak especially, where the nobles are exotic and far removed from the masses, I could see their pets being similar. And that's nothing to say for gladiatorial beasts; they need not all be from the wilderness, after all.
one time, some teenage guy in tuluk had a vnpc wooden box with a caterpillar in it. it was the only thing he was nice to as far as i can tell. it was also my first encounter with a codedly nonexistent prop. thought it was Neat.
what about those lion-like creatures called kiyet lions? i keep the animals doc page open for when i'm playing rangers, and there's a couple of animals that seem like big cats. rantarris?
Quote from: Intrepid on August 23, 2011, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: hyzhenhok on August 23, 2011, 01:43:13 AMI can see how you could argue there should be cats or cat-like domesticates, as Zalanthan cities are crawling with vermin.
But as pets? That is largely a modern phenomenon. Domesticates that are kept for pleasure and serve no useful purpose are an anachronism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basenji#History
Thousands of years, my friend. And there's a wide belief among students of the Paleolithic Era that dogs were domesticated before humans. ;)
Animals were bred for certain tasks. They don't need to be limited to pets by any means, but I could see a few ending up in noble possession. Some animals could serve as additional vermin, while others could be hunting aids or beasts of burden. And for a city like Nak especially, where the nobles are exotic and far removed from the masses, I could see their pets being similar. And that's nothing to say for gladiatorial beasts; they need not all be from the wilderness, after all.
QuoteDogs of this type were originally kept for hunting small game by coursing.
Looks like you're supporting me here. ;)
I wouldn't mind if there were small cat-like pets ... of the object to wear on your shoulder/forearms/wrist variety.
Actual mobs that follow you around though? Meh. Get a mount.
I wish wearable animals could be coded to run away/get killed when their owners get attacked.
At the risk of a small derail, it's hilarious to see people walking around with a stained hawk on their shoulder because they tried to clean blood off it unsuccessfully.
Quote from: hyzhenhok on August 23, 2011, 04:21:33 AM
QuoteDogs of this type were originally kept for hunting small game by coursing.
Looks like you're supporting me here. ;)
Actually, I'm more suggesting a broader world that would include any kind of breeding and training of animals for domestication--including pets.
Quote from: Intrepid on August 23, 2011, 06:36:51 AM
Quote from: hyzhenhok on August 23, 2011, 04:21:33 AM
QuoteDogs of this type were originally kept for hunting small game by coursing.
Looks like you're supporting me here. ;)
Actually, I'm more suggesting a broader world that would include any kind of breeding and training of animals for domestication--including pets.
But unless you have a thorough system allowing such domesticated animals to perform the jobs for which there were theoretically domesticated, they are just toys and ornaments. That is anachronistic for all but the wealthiest Zalanthans. The game isn't missing much for not having them.
And my impression is that actually domesticated animals (except for chalton, I guess?) don't really exist on Zalanthas. Tamed and domesticated are not the same.
My guess is that even those Zalanthan animals that can theoretically be tamed are generally too dangerous or unpredictable to have around on a leash in public or in your home. That's why Zalanthan pets are limited to birds and insects.
Quote from: musashi on August 23, 2011, 04:45:40 AM
At the risk of a small derail, it's hilarious to see people walking around with a stained hawk on their shoulder because they tried to clean blood off it unsuccessfully.
It's even worse seeing them dip the hawk in a vat of cleaning fluid...
Re. the topic at hand: there is/have been an interesting variety of domesticated animals in-game. All of the felnes in-game aren't really like the domesticated house cat we know and love RL today. Same with canine-type animals in-game, and domesticated dogs on Earth. That said, to me, having a pet gortok would be like having a pet coyote/wolf, or a pet quirri would be like a six-legged bobcat (we know this because the docs say pet quirri are potentially unpredictable animals).
All that said, there are organizations in-game that may specialize in animal husbandry/domestication. What animals do they work with best? Find out IG.
Quote from: hyzhenhok on August 23, 2011, 06:52:34 AM
And my impression is that actually domesticated animals (except for chalton, I guess?) don't really exist on Zalanthas. Tamed and domesticated are not the same.
I'm pretty sure all the mount animals are domesticated. Erdlus are kept on farms for eggs. Breeding them and training them early on makes more sense than catching a wild animal whenever you need a new mount. And if beasts are consistently raised by humans, they'll become domesticated eventually.
I can also see cats or small insect eaters being kept to keep the vermin away. Although there wouldn't be any left in 'nak after the famine.
Yeah, that's why animals you buy at stables are branded. They're bred.
We have domesticated animals in Zalanthas. It's just that cats and dogs aren't among them.
As dubious as domesticating giant lizards and insects is, I'll bow to your superior knowledge here.
Quote from: Riev on August 22, 2011, 04:24:53 PM
I, too, take things out of an equation, to give it more fullness, and make it appear richer.
Zalanthans seem pretty ass backwards when it comes to taming animals.
Inix? Big f'cking lizard, take your head off. We ride these.
Beetle? Big f'cking bug, take your head off. We ride these.
Erdlu? Big f'cking bird, take your head off. We ride these too.
Mekillot? Big f'cking pile of fuck shit up. We make these pull wagons.
I forgot where I was going with this, but feel free to carry on with it.
Except for the ox, not listed, they all enjoy heat more than any mammal. I daresay this is important.
Quote from: Intrepid on August 23, 2011, 06:36:51 AM
Actually, I'm more suggesting a broader world that would include any kind of breeding and training of animals for domestication--including pets.
In the past 5 years, there have been at least two to three player-run projects to create/breed/train new animal types. Animals which resulted from these projects have been seen in game.
I would say that it's not unimaginable that a player-run project could produce something that might be deemed a "pet," but it's not going to be a puppy or a kitty or any other real-world equivalent; it's more likely to be barely tamed, and/or declawed and defanged, and/or akin to chained zoo animals (medieval style, not modern style), and/or extremely exotic in appearance. And it's also highly likely that such "pets" would be completely inappropriate for Amos the Commoner to own due to the expense of both purchasing and keeping them--sort of like slaves are, only more so.
My character tried to keep a pet cilops larva for awhile.
It didn't work out.
Best Armageddon pet story ever:
When Markua Kadius tried to keep a silt louse as a pet in a chest full of silt.
...it got bigger. A lot bigger.
:-X
>kill gurth
>get shell
>put shell pack
There's your pet.
::)
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 23, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
>kill gurth
>get shell
>put shell pack
There's your pet.
::)
That is funny. Alot of my characters keept gurths as pets, in their apartments. haha!
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on August 23, 2011, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 23, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
>kill gurth
>get shell
>put shell pack
There's your pet.
::)
That is funny. Alot of my characters keept gurths as pets, in their apartments. haha!
You should let the staff know. They love animating wild animals inside people's apartments/camps/caves ect. I've seen on 3 different occasions now, various wild animals seriously jack up the room they were being kept in, shit everywhere, and then escape or be set aggro to attack the person when they come home.
And still, people never believe me when my PC is like: Yo dawg ... keeping that turaal that you stunned and subdued in your apartment is a bad idea ... ::)
Sometimes players also keep tame animals such as mounts in places where they shouldn't be keeping them (as in, the room is described as too small for that or it was never the intention of the room), and well...the same kind of thing musashi's talking about can happen with them, too. In short, if you're playing in unrealistic ways with animal NPCs, it will very possibly be noticed by staff and there will be IC consequences.
I immediately wished up the moment I found a gurth in someone's apartment while visiting. It turned real fun real fast. :D
My character has a pet/companion.
Sometimes I think that my character spends more time RPing with the pet than RPing with other PCs...
My pet gurth ate my couch, you could sleep on that couch it was so big.. and comfortable. Never got the couch back.. or repaired.. bad gurth, bad, bad.
Quote from: Feco on August 23, 2011, 09:47:01 PM
I immediately wished up the moment I found a gurth in someone's apartment while visiting. It turned real fun real fast. :D
That is half the fun of having a pet! lol
Quote from: Talia on August 23, 2011, 11:18:19 AMIn the past 5 years, there have been at least two to three player-run projects to create/breed/train new animal types. Animals which resulted from these projects have been seen in game.
I would say that it's not unimaginable that a player-run project could produce something that might be deemed a "pet," but it's not going to be a puppy or a kitty or any other real-world equivalent; it's more likely to be barely tamed, and/or declawed and defanged, and/or akin to chained zoo animals (medieval style, not modern style), and/or extremely exotic in appearance. And it's also highly likely that such "pets" would be completely inappropriate for Amos the Commoner to own due to the expense of both purchasing and keeping them--sort of like slaves are, only more so.
Agreed, I don't think keeping a pet would be common amongst the typical Zalanthan. High merchants, nobles and templars would be the best bet, I would think--or maybe a single organization of cronies like a platoon of soldiers might have a mascot.
That said, I have had a pc who was very wealthy in a position of high status and kept a pet lizard. This was a looooong time ago though. This was also an Allanak pc, which I could making a point to domesticate and overly breed creatures to their liking more than Tuluk and their closer-to-tribal origins.
Dogs are a great example, and one I think we keep revisiting, mainly because there are so many varieties of them that they're hardly recognizable as being in the same species. Their physical and personal characteristics are very evident based on their purpose, and both their form and personality are bred into them more than most. As a result, a dog can be either a ball of fluff with short limbs and a tiny frame or a sleek, muscular hunting creature with long limbs and superior senses. And then there's everything in between. While most species don't seem to have the ability to sport such genetic variety on Earth, I would conclude based on the need to adapt in Zalanthas that the currently existing species there might have the capacity to breed into many different directions with the right pc breeders.
Pets make sense among the nobility, IMO, at least as far as Allanak goes. There's that bit about how they're always trying to out-do one another's fashion and what-not, and having an exotic pet is an extension of that.
I really don't get why pets make sense for nobility but not for anyone else. Pet rats? Pet slugs? Pet rocks? It doesn't have to be some well trained neat animal to be a "pet'. It just has to be there to accept your affection for it.
Not that this is on topic. Cats don't have to be pets even. I just want to see a mangy, one-eyed cat howling at rodents and scampering off into the alleyways. Or hunting birds and shit. :)
Quote from: manipura on August 23, 2011, 10:23:33 PM
My character has a pet/companion.
Sometimes I think that my character spends more time RPing with the pet than RPing with other PCs...
i did that one time by accident.
it was surprisingly fulfilling.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 24, 2011, 12:59:57 AM
I really don't get why pets make sense for nobility but not for anyone else. Pet rats? Pet slugs? Pet rocks? It doesn't have to be some well trained neat animal to be a "pet'. It just has to be there to accept your affection for it.
Not that this is on topic. Cats don't have to be pets even. I just want to see a mangy, one-eyed cat howling at rodents and scampering off into the alleyways. Or hunting birds and shit. :)
Now I wanna roll a guy with nothing but a pet rat for company.
Just an idle comment on the gwoshi stuff earlier in the thread...
Gwoshi (General)
These woolly quadrupedal mammals stand nearly as tall as a human at the
shoulder. Although they can sometimes be tamed for use as mounts, their
name, originating from the Allundean for "biter" can give a potential rider
pause. Attacks on nomadic humans and elves have been reported, their large,
clawed paws adding to their painful bite, but they are normally relatively
solitary beasts.
Gwoshi travel in small family units as opposed to herds, and do not take
well to being herded. Their unusual woolly coat is highly sought after by
certain Houses.
I've always kind of seen that as something like a woolly llama with claws. The ig descriptions even say they are 'bearded'
Standing about four and one half cords at the shoulder, its muscular
body is covered with a short, curly muddy-brown wool that is matted down and
thick with sand and grass. Its four strong legs end in large, padded paws
that are equipped with claws, and its bearded head is set on a long neck
that is encircled by a shaggy mane.
Domani Kadius had purchased a tamed white-maned gortok for some time, was one of the most enjoyable experiences I had as his player, until some complications with a guard led to its demise.
As for gurth, that never gets old. However, I took it a step further once and didn't just try to keep it as a pet for company...
"A squat gurth is here, fighting a sand-filled sparring dummy."
Was thinking of starting up gurth pit fights! ;)
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 24, 2011, 12:59:57 AM
I really don't get why pets make sense for nobility but not for anyone else.
I wouldn't think it should be limited to those of high standing either. However, I think the point that the wealthy are more likely to keep a pet rather than eat it is what others are trying to express.
Quote from: Intrepid on August 24, 2011, 03:19:40 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 24, 2011, 12:59:57 AM
I really don't get why pets make sense for nobility but not for anyone else.
I wouldn't think it should be limited to those of high standing either. However, I think the point that the wealthy are more likely to keep a pet rather than eat it is what others are trying to express.
A great point.
Most people seem to forget that most of the commoner population is often starving and poor, and would sooner eat a gortok raw, than try to keep it as
a pet another mouth to feed.
Though I could see a few tribals utilizing domesticated hunting beasts, as well as filthy rich nobles holding a small menagerie of exotic creatures.
But that filthy, downtrodden group that most of our PC's belong to? I severely doubt it.
Besides, I don't see widely-available pets IG being treated as they should. Hell, we've already got people that let their already-available pet birds soak in a barrel of cleaning fluid because they wore it everywhere they went, always, in combat, out of combat, sleeping, mudsexxing, and everything else in between.
So I'd be totally cool with keeping things as they are.
Quote from: Wasteland Raider on August 22, 2011, 05:15:57 PM
Zalanthas is harsh, gritty, and a fantasy place. People having domesticated dogs is not something that 'adds' to this to me. Gortok are wild, feral, hideous things that do not domesticate well. Kurtoks were removed from the game because they were not in line with documentation and added nothing but Yet Another Unique OOC Status Symbol that ICly would have dozens of repercussions that were not roleplayed out by many who had them: feeding it, training it, keeping it in check, a place to keep it, people to keep it entertained, cleaning it, caring for it, cleaning up its messes... by and large PCs would just parade them about taverns/whatnot, or they would just keep them locked up in their clan compounds never to be seen.
I think more then just pet NPCs get ignored. People NPCs do too. You don't have to feed or cloth them, but giving them a personality is nice. Some players do this, others do not. My favorite NPC guard ever was Gataz, who I only interacted with a little, but who had a bit reputation.
Related to the actual topic, here is the only time I encountered a Kurtok:
Some location somewhere.
The Allanaki Blue-Robe Templar is sitting at a circular table.
The Great Lord Templar of the Red is sitting at a circular table.
The High Templar Jihaen dude is sitting at a circular table.
The Faithful Lord Jihaen dude is sitting at a circular table.
The High Templar Lirathuan dudette is sitting at a circular table.
The bristling red-streaked kurtok paces here, growling for no reason.
[important meeting stuff]
With a faint constant growl about him, the bristling, red-streaked kurtok paces over along the base of the stands, and lifting a hind leg lets out a thin stream of yellowish fluid to stain the ground.
The ranks may be off slightly, in this time frame. I sent in a Kudos for that to the player, but apparently it was a staff animation. It was still awesome.
Quote from: Kronibas on August 23, 2011, 01:29:56 PM
Best Armageddon pet story ever:
When Markua Kadius tried to keep a silt louse as a pet in a chest full of silt.
...it got bigger. A lot bigger.
:-X
Sometime after Markua died, there were rumors about a different Kadian who had a pet silt horror. I wonder if it's connected or a separate incident.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 24, 2011, 07:47:59 AM
But that filthy, downtrodden group that most of our PC's belong to? I severely doubt it.
Are you serious? Most pc's are flipping rich, and seldom if ever starving.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 24, 2011, 08:01:47 AM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 24, 2011, 07:47:59 AM
But that filthy, downtrodden group that most of our PC's belong to? I severely doubt it.
Are you serious? Most pc's are flipping rich, and seldom if ever starving.
I was mostly describing the other 99% of the IG NPC and VNPC population.
Seeing the poor condition most everyone is in, pets wouldn't exactly be a common, easily-obtained thing for most folks.
For (poor and loose) example, if you step into a city where everyone's very most favorite color of all time is red, you're not gonna find many blue things.
Feel free to keep a virtual pet cockroach or three, if you are playing a commoner.
As opposed to the real pet insects available? ;)
Having to think about what a pet would be doing -all the time- can get old even if you're determined to pay attention to it, even for existing pets ... sometimes I slip and have to be reminded about what's on my shoulder for it to start doing anything. I would personally probably play out a bloodstained pet as getting badly injured itself. :'(
... Now I want one of my breeds to go into a detailed and loving explanation of the benefits of raising insects over other meat sources when someone gets annoyed at her for feeding a cricket, because tenderly feeding something you have a minor emotional attachment with while discussing eating it/its kin + bug = creepy enough for me.
Quote from: Cind on August 24, 2011, 01:12:21 AM
Quote from: manipura on August 23, 2011, 10:23:33 PM
My character has a pet/companion.
Sometimes I think that my character spends more time RPing with the pet than RPing with other PCs...
i did that one time by accident.
it was surprisingly fulfilling.
:) I think so, too. I didn't plan it this way either, to have a pet, it just happened and now we are inseparable. :D
My last PC with a pet had a certain large rat. I basically pictured it as a capybara with a tail. And staff animations made it seem it had much the same temperment. (capybara make reasonable pets BTW)
It was entertaining, a bit of work to keep him and I think staff actually had more fun with him then My PC or his friends did.
I never asked for the mount flag for him (which would have allowed for hitching) Because I liked the idea of a half wild animal pet. Still, if enough time and training went into the npc, I would have expected the request to be granted. Most rodents tame easily and walk on leashes. I've had IRL, leash trained rabbits and rats and know somebody with a very loving 110lbs capybara.
So, I don't have any problem with people having pet NPCs of the small harmless type. But I think if staff sees them not taking care of it properly, to have a little fun. Of course, I think staff should on the pet objects as well. If Joe with the hawk on his shoulder spends a few days without feeding it, then he should end up with a dead and stinky hawk object on his shoulder. In combat, shots to the neck should count as a hit to the shoulder and the pet object, killing it. Look, Joe has a pile of blood and feathers on his shoulder. That desert snake you wear all the time as a bracelet...take a hit to the arms or wrists, Dead snake.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 24, 2011, 07:47:59 AM
A great point.
Most people seem to forget that most of the commoner population is often starving and poor, and would sooner eat a gortok raw, than try to keep it as a pet another mouth to feed.
Though I could see a few tribals utilizing domesticated hunting beasts, as well as filthy rich nobles holding a small menagerie of exotic creatures.
But that filthy, downtrodden group that most of our PC's belong to? I severely doubt it.
Besides, I don't see widely-available pets IG being treated as they should. Hell, we've already got people that let their already-available pet birds soak in a barrel of cleaning fluid because they wore it everywhere they went, always, in combat, out of combat, sleeping, mudsexxing, and everything else in between.
So I'd be totally cool with keeping things as they are.
I wasn't saying I agreed with it; just that that's the point others were trying to express. If you want things to remain at the state of affairs they already are, well--pets already exist. There are npc pets out there, both among npcs and occasionally pcs. They have been loaded for pcs by request before.
Quote from: Intrepid on August 24, 2011, 04:17:18 PM
I wasn't saying I agreed with it; just that that's the point others were trying to express. If you want things to remain at the state of affairs they already are, well--pets already exist. There are npc pets out there, both among npcs and occasionally pcs. They have been loaded for pcs by request before.
The NPC pets that were previously in game were removed. Currently there are only pet objects (like birds) and mounts.
Erdlu!
Erdlu are ideal aren't they? Look at their helpfile. You can't get a more (useless and therefore) loveable little animal buddy. Whenever I do see them it's pretty much in the context being discussed here.
I always assumed there were cats since there's a cat figurine somewhere. Maybe it was removed.
Honestly I think I would prefer having the wearable pets taken out of game as well, and just RP'd as vpets the same way people RP their vbabies. I find having to clean them like a piece of equipment kind of silly. And super silly that they can be stained; although that at least could be remedied by tagging the pet object to be like weapons or some types of jewelry where the blood and sweat just wipes off ... I think anyway. But I'm also personally a bit annoyed when it comes to finding a place to put said coded object. For example ... you have a hunting hawk/owl/falcon/whatever ... and you are RP'ing that it's flying overhead ... hunting. You have to do something with the object. Inventory I guess. Of course then it's stealable ... and it affects your climb checks ... or you can put it in your bag but then it looks awkward. You end up emoting something like:
> put bird pack [but seriously he just let it take flight from his arm. It's not chilling in his backpack]
I mean it's cool that people can check the animal's description because it's coded, and it's SUPER cool that a lot of those animals can be crafted into food! But I find them a little clunky as RP props overall.
>draw flamingo
>kill musashi
On the other hand, Musashi, I'm grateful we still have these wearable ones at least. Until the day this becomes a MUSH, I'll take every bit of coded support I can get in my RP.
As things stand, it'd be far more jarring for me for someone to, out of the blue, reference a hawk flying off his shoulder and soaring above. I just looked at them two seconds ago and I think I would have noticed something the size of a hawk chilling on their shoulder. Likely would have reacted to it as well, the moment I saw it. So now, potentially thirty minutes into RP'ing with this character, I'm forced to deal with the fact they decided/remembered they have a hawk on their shoulder and, oh look, it just pooped on my head from above. It starts to border on power-emoting, in some ways.
Or on the flip-side of the coin, it'd be a pain having to remember and rp about this virtual pet on my shoulder every time someone new walks into the room so they can react accordingly. Sometimes you're involved in something you don't want to break away from, like a deep discussion. I'd rather focus on what I'm doing and let others react to the actual object, than have to go through the motions each time.
I'll take the coded disadvantages of a pet in my inventory, hope that anyone trying to steal it will have enough sense to at least hemote accordingly, do my best to clean it when it gets dirty, emote around its actions when needed, etc. Because the alternative would be worse for me.
But yes, if their becoming stained could be altered it'd be great. Being forced to douse my pet in cleaning fluids because the code doesn't agree with how good a job I did of clean it, does suck. Then again.. It's one of those things where I simply have to look at it from an OOC standpoint, because the reason they're stained in the first place is due to the OOC restrictions of code. So I'll either emote around the cleaning fluid or treat it OOC entirely, such as accidentally removing your onyx-studded pants in the middle of a tavern, instead of your onyx-studded bone bracelet.
Simply have pet objects always show up when in inventory, like heavy objects do now. Then you'll know as soon as the owner walks in, or when you look at the room.
The grey man has arrived from the west.
- a tan desert hawk is with him.
Ouroborus ..... ..... tdesc?
Quote from: musashi on November 16, 2011, 05:07:45 AMOuroborus ..... ..... tdesc?
Sure. But it's one more step I need to remember to take each time, and only offers the possibility of an sdesc-type description (unless I want to spam anyone that looks at me with a full desc, each time). Why do that, when I can just have a coded object that addresses everything needed, with a lovely mdesc of its own for any that would wish to examine it.
Code beats virtual, nine out of ten. The main problem we tend to face is staff having the time to implement coded representations of things that might otherwise be virtual. Here we have a situation where staff has already
taken the time to implement them and we're asking for them to be removed? Makes no sense, to me at least.
Furthermore, removing such objects entirely opens up
everything to the virtual realm. Keep in mind there's reasons and backstories for the existance of several of those wearable pets. For example...
Quote from: The Arabet public documentation...They are also the ones who trap the birds and small pets that are often found for sale wherever Kurac is based.
Which means that once "rare" pet object that you might have had to travel across the Known for or pay x amount for or befriend y individual to get, can now be added to your tdesc on a whim. I'm not really comfortable with that. Could it be RP'ed properly by some individuals? Sure. But unfortunately one has to consider the worse-case scenario first. Could worse-case "exceptions" be dealt with by the staff? Sure. Do we want to add one more thing for them to have to oversee? Doubt it.
In short: If you're not happy with the way the coded pets function, either work around it, ask to have it fixed, or even simpler...
don't use them. No one's forcing you to, they're rp props without any coded benefit. Some of us enjoy having them. While I'd be happy to see some fixes in place for how their code works with regards to cleaning, personally I'm just dandy with how they are right now. So forgive me if I don't agree with your call to have them removed entirely, just because you're not happy with the way they work as is.
It wouldn't be "each time". Tdesc saves to your character until you manually clear it, even through logging in and out.
I did say that having them as objects was cool for the very reason that it gives them a full mdesc, but I was just addressing the issues you raised in your first post, which were:
- It's jarring for someone to reference something out of the blue when I couldn't tell it was there by looking at them.
- What if I don't want to emote my vpet every time for each new character to walk in?
Both of those concerns would be perfectly addressed by tdesc.
In any case, I'm not "calling" for the removal of anything. I'm just saying that my personal opinion happens to be that I find the little animal critter objects in game to be a touch more cumbersome than they're worth, at least in the case of the birds. For something like a hissing cockroach or a big iguana that isn't gonna go anywhere else except your shoulder, it's not as much of an issue.
You're not a real tribal unless you walk, eat, mudsex and sleep with an hawk on your shoulder, it is known.
*sage*
Quote from: Kaiden on November 16, 2011, 12:42:13 PM
You're not a real tribal unless you walk, eat, mudsex and sleep with an hawk on your shoulder, it is known.
I'm going to behaviorally train my hawk to help out during mudsex. I dunno, maybe pull their hair or something kinky like that.
Quote from: musashi on November 16, 2011, 12:10:58 PM
It wouldn't be "each time". Tdesc saves to your character until you manually clear it, even through logging in and out.
By each time I meant each time the pet would leave the position you'd have it set at. If on your shoulder for example, you'd have to change the tdesc under circumstances such as the hawk flying off your shoulder (clear tdesc), landing on your arm (set tdesc), moving it over to the shoulder later (change tdesc), removing it for the night (clear tdesc), etc. It's no more a "set & forget" solution as always wearing the pet object itself is. And I don't think that's how you personally rp with these objects, based on your comments. So yes, if rp'ed right, it'd need regular adjustments.
Quote from: musashi on November 16, 2011, 12:10:58 PMIn any case, I'm not "calling" for the removal of anything.
Well... ok. Forgive me, I was just going by your original post. Which stated:
Quote from: musashi on November 15, 2011, 05:54:09 PMHonestly I think I would prefer having the wearable pets taken out of game as well, and just RP'd as vpets the same way people RP their vbabies.
It certainly
seemed that's what you were calling for. If that's the case, my comment stands; work around it, work on fixing it, or don't use it at all. If it's not the case and you were just trying to emphasize the fact you find them cumbersome by saying you'd rather they were removed, but didn't
really want to see them removed, then... I'm with ya, as I echoed already in my own annoyance at the cleaning bit. But try to voice concerns in clearer ways, so others don't misunderstand your intentions. It's like saying, "This magick system is really cumbersome and at times awkward, so I think I'd prefer to see magick taken out of the game entirely and we can all rp it."
Either way, no hard feelings. :)
Quote from: Ouroboros on November 16, 2011, 03:01:49 PM
By each time I meant each time the pet would leave the position you'd have it set at.
I see. This shouldn't take any longer than the time it takes to command emote much of the same whenever we remove the objects, and put them back on, or take them in and out of containers; especially given that most people keep notes in notepad or the like so more elaborate tdesc's could just be cut and pasted as needed. I think it would be fairly similar to what we have to do now in terms of "effort".
Quote from: Ouroboros on November 16, 2011, 03:01:49 PM
Well... ok. Forgive me, I was just going by your original post. Which stated:
Quote from: musashi on November 15, 2011, 05:54:09 PMHonestly I think I would prefer having the wearable pets taken out of game as well, and just RP'd as vpets the same way people RP their vbabies.
It certainly seemed that's what you were calling for.
I thought the difference between "I would prefer" and "I think we all should" was clear enough. Sorry you misread into it. I'm just saying, I find them a bit cumbersome. I wouldn't mind it they were all handled like vobjects the same way people handle their vinfants. But I'm not petitioning the government or anything. Just shrugging off an opinion.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on November 15, 2011, 06:47:44 PM
>draw flamingo
>kill musashi
LOL I love you Rogue...I so want a flamingo now!
I don't know if this has been mentioned but I would like for pets to have echoes.
Quote from: titansfan on March 01, 2012, 05:41:05 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned but I would like for pets to have echoes.
I would love pet objects to have echoes. Especially pet echoes that react to certain environmental cues.
The brindle cat licks his crotch--because he can.And in a perfect world, they would have a bit of AI to them. They would get tired and cranky. They would not sit on your shoulder nicely.
The red-tailed hawk sits on your shoulder.
The red-tailed hawk pecks at your eye.
You are blind!
Pretty sure I've seen an "ivory cat" decorative item. Could be making that up, though.
I've been told several times that 'cat' is an ok description to use ICly, although there's no such thing as house cats, per se.
Quote from: Voular on March 02, 2012, 12:42:21 AM
Pretty sure I've seen an "ivory cat" decorative item. Could be making that up, though.
There are cat figurines IG somewhere. I can second this.
There are indeed several items IG that have the word "cat" in their description and seem to depict something akin to what we would know as a domesticated cat. I think it would be safe to assume these items are either fanciful renditions of a number of felines currently in the world, or that in Ages past there were indeed domesticated felines that did not fare well with the collapse of civilization and the subsequent ruination of the Known.
Quote from: Kronibas on August 23, 2011, 01:29:56 PM
Best Armageddon pet story ever:
When Markua Kadius tried to keep a silt louse as a pet in a chest full of silt.
...it got bigger. A lot bigger.
:-X
Oh my, that was fun. Nothing like fighting a silt horror in Luir's.
It did cost him a hand. But entirely worth it.
One of the things that remind me how intricately involved the staff can be sometimes, a little, spur of the moment decision can profoundly effect your pc's life like an RL year later heh
I am not the biggest fan of walking into a room and seeing a bird, a snake, some kind of beetle or something else sitting there like a decoration. People having hawks on shoulders or lizards or snakes ect..
I rarely see anyone doing anything with these things beyond the occasional "emote look at me, I have insert animal here on my shoulder!" emote about feeding it a bit of meat or something.
I like the idea of them, just not how they are often applied in-game :/
You know honestly I dont see why Arm wouldnt have some sort of creature similar to the domestic cat....They are serious desert survivors all out domestic cats stems from a wild desert breed in Eygpt and they thrived in cities because, where there is people, there is grain, where there is grain, there are rats....and we certainly have rats running around in Arm. I'm not sure if this cats should/would me tame (or semi tame) as our own Domestic feline but but they could certainly thrive in our game setting. Wild cats also get about 80% of there water intake from blood of downed prey. It would actually make them a much more affordable pet. Cats will also hunt whether they need food or not. They just like to kill things. ;D
The common housecat of Zalanthas, or Felinus Domesticus Zalanthas, weighs an average of 30 pounds and is one foot tall at the shoulder. Six legs and a prehensile tail combine with superior night vision and venom-sacs along the jawline allow it to hunt prey much larger than itself. A set of inner jaws assist in goring and devouring prey at a much faster rate than other predators, and it has been known to gorge itself on nearly 75% of its own weight in meat.
In addition to its skills in hunting and scavenging, the Zalanthan feline has been clocked at a maximum running speed of over 40 mph for short bursts and can leap up to a maximum of 20 feet with a running start. In cities, they gravitate to and even mimic humanoids, who keep them as pets and watchcats for their homes. Territorial to the extreme, they form packs in the wild and can become a dangerous infestation even along the silt coasts, hunting almost anything in their path.
Their colorations tend to reflect the hues of the desert area they live in, ranging from greys and beiges to deep reds and blacks. Allegedly, a rare version of saltcat has been accounted by travelers in the eastern reaches of the Salt Flats with shades of light grey and ivory, but this has yet to be substantiated.
Oh gosh, Intrepid still owns me.
Quote from: Delirium on March 02, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
Oh gosh, Intrepid still owns me.
Yeah...I don't tend to change my sig much.
Quote from: Intrepid on March 02, 2012, 11:38:07 AM
The common housecat of Zalanthas, or Felinus Domesticus Zalanthas, weighs an average of 30 pounds and is one foot tall at the shoulder. Six legs and a prehensile tail combine with superior night vision and venom-sacs along the jawline allow it to hunt prey much larger than itself. A set of inner jaws assist in goring and devouring prey at a much faster rate than other predators, and it has been known to gorge itself on nearly 75% of its own weight in meat.
In addition to its skills in hunting and scavenging, the Zalanthan feline has been clocked at a maximum running speed of over 40 mph for short bursts and can leap up to a maximum of 20 feet with a running start. In cities, they gravitate to and even mimic humanoids, who keep them as pets and watchcats for their homes. Territorial to the extreme, they form packs in the wild and can become a dangerous infestation even along the silt coasts, hunting almost anything in their path.
Their colorations tend to reflect the hues of the desert area they live in, ranging from greys and beiges to deep reds and blacks. Allegedly, a rare version of saltcat has been accounted by travelers in the eastern reaches of the Salt Flats with shades of light grey and ivory, but this has yet to be substantiated.
I love everything except the six legs. I think that over complicates things a little, simple is better for great agility and running speed derived from pure muscle. Plus it just weirds me out.
yeah, it does seem ungainly.
It was mainly a reference to a Dark Sun feline called a Kirre, if I remember right. A horned feline great cat. But yeah, I suppose it doesn't make a lot of sense for the additional legs, does it?
As for skinning products:
- 2 tiny pink glands: makes a paralytic poison.
- cat's eye: Viqrol spell component
- a mass of stringy guts: instrument strings, netting, basket fodder
- teeth: ornamentation, of course.
- fur/hide: element-proof leather for small items like pouches, gourds, etc.
i don't know about paralytic, man.
just make them like the honey badger.
Yeah - Substitute 'paralytic' with blood burn. More manageable.
Cats should be vNPCs if anything, like many other animals we would never give a shit about. Jesus. It's a cat. A cat in Zalanthalas would be about as useful as a rat.
Given there are a pissload of disease carrying rats everywhere... one would think cats would be quite useful?
I'd almost consider snakes, if they had the intelligence of small domestic canines/felines. But... They don't.
Maybe something like a ferret... Or maybe some other type of mid-sized medium intelligence lizard like one of those what'cha'call'em dragon lizards.
Quote from: CravenMadness on March 02, 2012, 11:47:32 PM
I'd almost consider snakes, if they had the intelligence of small domestic canines/felines. But... They don't.
Maybe something like a ferret... Or maybe some other type of mid-sized medium intelligence lizard like one of those what'cha'call'em dragon lizards.
Tegus?
Nice, yea, I was actually thinking of komodo dragons. But the Tengu looks a lot more to what I was imagining. Tengu is a more reasonable size too, like 3-4 feet long.
Quote from: Voular on March 02, 2012, 11:33:22 PM
Cats should be vNPCs if anything, like many other animals we would never give a shit about. Jesus. It's a cat. A cat in Zalanthalas would be about as useful as a rat.
I may be in the minority here, but I think the two major cities should be crawling with coded npcs to hunt; some hidden, some visible. Snakes, spiders, scorpions, lizards, cats, rodents, slugs, etc. Maybe even have them hunt each other in citywide ecosystem. It would make scavenging easier.
Obviously, they would be limited to certain areas. But when you think about it, the Rinth and the Commoner's Quarter are filthy and ill-maintained. They should be teeming with critters.
Yes! I could use more things to practice backstab on.
:P
But honestly I agree. More critters in the cities(and out of them, for gods sake) would be great. I hate going on a hunt and not finding a single thing to kill.
Maybe a bump to the current critters regen rate is in order. That way that one douchebag who want to kill everything in the known doesn't ruin it for everyone else.
*toescuff*
Sorry...
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on March 03, 2012, 10:40:28 AM
That way that one douchebag who want to kill everything in the known doesn't ruin it for everyone else.
Yes, things I hope for in 2.Arm:
- Animals produce significant amounts of food. (requires revamp of the crafting system)
- That food has significant weight (requires a revamp of all the other weights)
- Food goes bad. Raw food goes bad quickly, cooked food in a while, and preserved food eventually.
I hope Arm 2 has devils which are cute and awesome like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRyFQNmb1Q4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRyFQNmb1Q4)
They make awesome pets that would eat your face off at night. Very Zalanthan.
That IC info burned a hole right through my eyes.
Quote from: Jingo on March 04, 2012, 07:17:11 PM
That IC info burned a hole right through my eyes.
If you're referring to my Mutual of Ohama's Wild Kingdom disseration on Zalanthan cats, I was just making it up. ;) If you're not, nevermind.