Armageddon General Discussion Board

I have quite a few suggestions to making it a far better place for people that actually like the area, right now RS seems to be the only village in the game which has gotten almost no attention. Mostly it would have to do with vendors, apartments, and spice traffic. This would assist with the population of actual red storm folks. It'd be realistic! Since now we'd have criminals on the run from the law, spice-hunters, hunters, and all kinds of folks coming by! Breathing new life into the village, when all of these make sense IC. Its a heaven for these sort of people as long as they follow the Sand Lord's laws! Though codely it is rather annoying to even attempt to play these out.

I will also post my ideas here: And edit later to add the rest/more...

New/Old Apartments: I see apartments as you are renting out a home, these are your homes, most families living in here have worked hard to get into them! Most may also have multiple families living in the same shitty room to save coin, since they are all commoners. I believe that a few more apartments should be added to Red Storm, and/or the price of the old apartments should be lowered. New apartments: I would like to see some two room apartments with higher rent cap. Also to drop the old one room apartments down to 250-300 coin a rent-phase! Should be able to rent with more then -one- other person. As this is closest to a third world country, should not be uncommon for 2-3 families to share a living space!!
Apartments in general should not have a max of two people per room.


Vendors: For the most part the market of Storm is good enough in items and stock. They have a wide variety of things, though could do with a few more choices on certain items. The main problem with the vendors in Storm is that there is no vendor to sell spice to. Now with all the 'happy' spice hunter echoes, one would assume you could at least make a living for bread and water off spice hunting. Now there is no Kuraci PC that wants to go down there to support the sifting network, so I think a npc (Much like the one that buys salt in Allanak.) should be added to the warehouse. So spice hunters can sell their spice for a reasonable amount of coin, at the moment selling it is worthless. Its more useful snorted off the ass of a hooker in the tavern! (That is fun regardless but back to the point!)


So these are two of my ideas for Storm at the moment to make it far better for anyone not of a certain sub guild. So all the run a ways, outcasts, and such have a -chance- to survive. Since you should be able to get some work with kurac for the spice-hunting, work in the mills, join the militia, or such things in the virtual world if you are down there for any reason. And many folks have reasons to go hide out or find a new living in Storm!

Yes.

Two things I never understood about RS.

1) Why are apartments soooo expensive?
2) Why is there no jal-like spice vendor?

It used to be that every few months or so some Kuraci would be around to buy your spice, and give you food and water. Haven't seen one in a looong time, and personally I don't blame anyone for not wanting the role of sitting around bored in RS waiting to grab spice off of people. I personally don't 'play' there (except for starting out, or passing through) because it has no lovin'.

My first character was from RS... aaaahh...

I've gone out for entire days to sift on old ranger pcs.

And came back with at most 5-6 grains of spice. Its annoying, its not hard at all, its near impossible to survive off of spice-hunting.
I wish the echos would change to spice-hunters being upset and pissy. Not drunk, happy, buying rounds, etc.

It may be because I actually rp? And don't spam 'use sift deposit' till it disappears. Maybe if I stop rping while doing it.  :'(


And the "2 per room" + how expensive always got me.

I'd love to play a simple commoner, who lives down there to spice-hunt, hunt, work in the mills, etc..

Please be very careful with posts like this. I edited a few parts that were heavily suggestive of IC information.

Quote from: Oleupata on April 15, 2010, 03:10:07 PM
Please be very careful with posts like this. I edited a few parts that were heavily suggestive of IC information.

Sorry about that, Oleupata. Thanks though!

I did quirk an eyebrow at the poll options--who's going to vote no to "Do you want more ice cream?"

Red storm is a very small location.  The one-room apartments are really all that would be available; I don't foresee us adding more to add further incentive to dilute the playerbase, and really, it's not meant to be a high-volume PC hang out place.  I'd be willing to review the spice sales in Red Storm, but to be honest, there's a sentiment backed by data that more PCs than not manage to make profit (if not unrealistic profit) in this village.  I'd rather look at curbing this somewhat before reviewing spice or apartment prices.  (Somehow the apartments are all full anyway, so I doubt the prices are a major issue.)

I like having no profitable way of selling spice to NPC's in Storm.  It's a great incentive to go out and make contacts.

Quote from: Nyr on April 15, 2010, 03:30:26 PM
Good Stuff.

I was hoping more so for people to comment, and not simply go yes/no to be honest. I most likely should have not done a poll.

Though I kind of agree on the unrealistic profits, and maybe if those were balanced out- reviewing spice traffic would not be so bad or lowering apartment prices.
I could give a few ideas on balancing it. Though would be far better emailed then here since would be IC information.

I would like those 'yes' people and 'no' to give their comments, actually ideas. Why? Or Why not?

Please?  :'(

I love Red Storm.  Very hard to "make it" there, though.

Quote from: solera on April 15, 2010, 03:34:07 PM
I like having no profitable way of selling spice to NPC's in Storm.  It's a great incentive to go out and make contacts.

And I doubt Kurac would be very happy with you spice hunting, and making contacts to go sell it on your own. Undercutting their profit on their spice.
This is where the vendor comes in hand. And most PCs will not buy spice nor entertainment. One the reasons I have stored bards, and don't wanna play a beggar.
Many people IC are out for themselves. No one wants to support a 'flavor' role. Aka beggars, entertainers, bards, or indie sellers of useless things- spice included.
And not complaining, simply being realistic here. And actually make sense for most people to be out for themselves- issue is it does not count for the Vworld, and someone would pay for it.

Quote from: Nyr on April 15, 2010, 03:30:26 PM
I'd be willing to review the spice sales in Red Storm, but to be honest, there's a sentiment backed by data that more PCs than not manage to make profit (if not unrealistic profit) in this village.  I'd rather look at curbing this somewhat before reviewing spice or apartment prices.  (Somehow the apartments are all full anyway, so I doubt the prices are a major issue.)

If people are making profit, I doubt it is with spice.  Not only it has 5 item limit in selling, but NPCs also buy them so cheap it is not a feasible way of survival.

An NPC vendor like House Jal's Salt buyer would make a lot of sense.  They could buy infinitely, and pay per weight of it.

I agree that if compared to salt grebbing, spice sifting should be more profitable. Or maybe salt is too rewarding. My salt grebber PC made 300 'sid -per run-.

Why should spice be so much less valuable than salt?

I remember when Tlaloc gave Red Storm some love back in the day.  He did a great job.

I still think it needs more.

A Kuraci spice buyer that operates like the salt, cotton, and dung buyers would not only make spice sifting the viable career it should be, it would also make IC sense.  Kurac would profit more for buying spice from independent sellers at a low (lower than what they sell it for, at least) price, rather than paying the salary of the gazillion or so in-house sifters it would take to meet the world's spice demand.

I know they likely wont add more apartments in Storm. But it would be really nice if they did.  :-\  Or even if they put a couple buildings up in Luirs. Again I would also like to see houses being rent-able again.

The alleys on the east side of Storm aren't dangerous enough.

Quote from: roughneck on April 15, 2010, 04:27:35 PM
The alleys on the east side of Storm aren't dangerous enough.

The dead guy I found there last week would probably disagree.

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2010, 04:20:10 PM
Again I would also like to see houses being rent-able again.

Hell yes. Two  8) 8) faces of agreement.

Quote from: Ghost on April 15, 2010, 03:48:15 PM
If people are making profit, I doubt it is with spice.  Not only it has 5 item limit in selling, but NPCs also buy them so cheap it is not a feasible way of survival.

An NPC vendor like House Jal's Salt buyer would make a lot of sense.  They could buy infinitely, and pay per weight of it.

Just to clear things up, the spice should get cleared out once per day, allowing more spice to be sold the next day.  If this isn't working we'll look into something else that allows more spice to be bought.

Still, it would make more sense if the NPC buyer was coded similar to Jal, I think.

I have not checked if the NPC is cleared in the next IG day.

Quote from: Myrdryn on April 15, 2010, 04:45:41 PM

Quote from: Ghost on April 15, 2010, 03:48:15 PM
If people are making profit, I doubt it is with spice.  Not only it has 5 item limit in selling, but NPCs also buy them so cheap it is not a feasible way of survival.

An NPC vendor like House Jal's Salt buyer would make a lot of sense.  They could buy infinitely, and pay per weight of it.

Just to clear things up, the spice should get cleared out once per day, allowing more spice to be sold the next day.  If this isn't working we'll look into something else that allows more spice to be bought.

From past old pc experience. Its not. Or I have bad luck.

Unless you mean once a RL day?

And even 5 items a day is extremely low and impossible to do anything with.
Unless on all RL day, sifting. And go back every dawn, every hour on. Then could get somewhere.

Quote from: Myrdryn on April 15, 2010, 04:45:41 PM

Quote from: Ghost on April 15, 2010, 03:48:15 PM
If people are making profit, I doubt it is with spice.  Not only it has 5 item limit in selling, but NPCs also buy them so cheap it is not a feasible way of survival.

An NPC vendor like House Jal's Salt buyer would make a lot of sense.  They could buy infinitely, and pay per weight of it.

Just to clear things up, the spice should get cleared out once per day, allowing more spice to be sold the next day.  If this isn't working we'll look into something else that allows more spice to be bought.

I haven't done a lot of spice grebbing mainly because I spend more in water looking for it then I could ever profit from it. I have no idea how anyone could make enough just for food and water off spice hunting.

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2010, 04:55:59 PM

Quote from: Myrdryn on April 15, 2010, 04:45:41 PM

Quote from: Ghost on April 15, 2010, 03:48:15 PM
Stuff....

Stuff....

I haven't done a lot of spice grebbing mainly because I spend more in water looking for it then I could ever profit from it. I have no idea how anyone could make enough just for food and water off spice hunting.

Its mostly impossible, unless I am missing something.
Though not trying to make it easy either, hard is good, challenge is good, though the whole being impossible is not good.

Spice is one my favorite parts of the game and Zalanthas. :(

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2010, 04:55:59 PM
I haven't done a lot of spice grebbing mainly because I spend more in water looking for it then I could ever profit from it. I have no idea how anyone could make enough just for food and water off spice hunting.

On that note, the price of water being sold in Red Storm really puzzled me last time I had a PC there to check. I wonder if it's intended.  ???

It's definitely a hard place to play and try to keep a character in there-- even harder than 'Rinth if you're not a crafter of any sort. There's really not much a newbie hunter could hunt, because beetles or other beasties from around the Silt Sea always pop up and "omnomnom" their ass when they even try. And Spice Sifting, when compared to dung-digging, salt-grebbing, and even obsidian mining, has a retarded risk:profit ratio. It's near impossible to keep a PC alive there if t anyone wants to try to keep a PC there, what with the sandstorms that rangers even get lost in, lack of plants to supplement food supply, nothing to hunt that won't kill you, and beetles almost perpetually lurking a few leagues from the gates and spice deposits. It's really no wonder nearly everyone who makes a Stormer winds up in Allanak, which is really a shame because Red Storm has an interesting history and a unique take on things.

But.... There are no clans to join in Storm, spare a GMH compound or two that nobody really uses. No PC militia at all..... It's pretty much a place for a criminal or raider or rogue magicker to lay low for a while.

I agree that Storm needs a good bit of love.... And if it's not meant to be a PC "hangout" place, then why is it even available as a starting location? Might as well just take it off the selection list and leave the settlement for the odd PC that wants to go there-- like Cenyr.

I personally wouldn't see giving Storm some TLC as "diluting the playerbase", but more as, "enriching the game world".

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
A lot of good stuff...
I personally wouldn't see giving Storm some TLC as "diluting the playerbase", but more as, "enriching the game world".

I agree here. Specially on the first part! Though this part left in the quote is the one I wanted to bold out from the rest.

Also this: It makes me sad to see that spice is less valuable then dung/poop, obsidian, and salt! Specially since all three those are fairly risk-free-easy-made-coin for a smart player.

thoughts there was a spice buyer? In the kuraci building on the south end of the market.. I distinctly remember selling spice there.

Quote from: askaran on April 15, 2010, 05:12:32 PM
thoughts there was a spice buyer? In the kuraci building on the south end of the market.. I distinctly remember selling spice there.

There is, and people are aware of it. They have been discussing -other- issues in the rest of this thread.  :)

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 05:08:25 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
A lot of good stuff...
I personally wouldn't see giving Storm some TLC as "diluting the playerbase", but more as, "enriching the game world".

I agree here. Specially on the first part! Though this part left in the quote is the one I wanted to bold out from the rest.

Also this: It makes me sad to see that spice is less valuable then dung/poop, obsidian, and salt! Specially since all three those are fairly risk-free-easy-made-coin for a smart player.

Agreed as well. If you are playing a indy that for whatever reason doesn't want to go in or near the cities its really your option. It would also be very cool to see more pc skimmer crews and what not. Its really an interesting little town.

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 05:08:25 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
A lot of good stuff...
I personally wouldn't see giving Storm some TLC as "diluting the playerbase", but more as, "enriching the game world".

I agree here. Specially on the first part! Though this part left in the quote is the one I wanted to bold out from the rest.

Also this: It makes me sad to see that spice is less valuable then dung/poop, obsidian, and salt! Specially since all three those are fairly risk-free-easy-made-coin for a smart player.

Maybe salt and dung grebbing is too profitable and payouts should be lower.

Quote from: Schrodingers Cat on April 15, 2010, 05:25:08 PM

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 05:08:25 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
A lot of good stuff...
I personally wouldn't see giving Storm some TLC as "diluting the playerbase", but more as, "enriching the game world".

I agree here. Specially on the first part! Though this part left in the quote is the one I wanted to bold out from the rest.

Also this: It makes me sad to see that spice is less valuable then dung/poop, obsidian, and salt! Specially since all three those are fairly risk-free-easy-made-coin for a smart player.

Maybe salt and dung grebbing is too profitable and payouts should be lower.

Nobody would greb salt or dung if it were made less profitable than spice-- ever, if a change like that went in....

From my experience (and I -could- be doing it wrong) going out and sifting spice all day, ALL BEETLE AND BEASTY-DODGING DAY, would barely amount to enough to fill your waterskin and a couple of bites to eat.

I think sifting would be alot less painful if it were based more on forage, with a sifter just giving a bump to "forage spice".

Make spice so its more in line with obsidian mining and salt grebbing!

Why? Then would make it balanced, and you could actually get some water/food off of it!

Now with that said, Dung/Poop should never be near as profitable as the other three as you NEVER have to leave the city. Though its better then spice at the moment.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:29:02 PM

Nobody would greb salt or dung if it were made less profitable than spice-- ever, if a change like that went in....

It's hard to know what people would do.  I'm sure some would.  And I'm not suggesting it be made -less-profitable than sifting spice, just that it shouldn't be as profitable as it is now.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:29:02 PM
I think sifting would be alot less painful if it were based more on forage, with a sifter just giving a bump to "forage spice".

This. And a less harsh limit on sales per day.

Quote from: Akaramu on April 15, 2010, 05:38:05 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:29:02 PM
I think sifting would be alot less painful if it were based more on forage, with a sifter just giving a bump to "forage spice".

This. And a less harsh limit on sales per day.

So... would this also require a deposit in the room?

If it would not... I would love this change.

As it is, since it doesn't require stamina but does require a deposit, I think it balances rather nicely, although it would be GREAT to see more deposits.

Quote from: Akaramu on April 15, 2010, 05:38:05 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 15, 2010, 05:29:02 PM
I think sifting would be alot less painful if it were based more on forage, with a sifter just giving a bump to "forage spice".

This. And a less harsh limit on sales per day.

Honestly. I prefer the deposits. I really like the deposits and having to go look for them. Now if were a few more deposits popping up about would help balance it in the huge range they seem to have.

And if a vendor which was like the House Jal's salt vendor (assume reasonable pricing) was put in, and we kept deposits. It'd balance it out most likely, since could not over forage and get a TON of 'sid.

Honestly with the demand for spice in Luirs you would think it would be more profitable. I like the jal/salt vendor idea. Drugs are normally sold on a bases of weight anyway  ;)

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2010, 04:55:59 PM

I haven't done a lot of spice grebbing mainly because I spend more in water looking for it then I could ever profit from it. I have no idea how anyone could make enough just for food and water off spice hunting.

yet some do. it's as if by magick.
:-X


p.s.
I played a Kuraci Sand Master once. It was fun and I didn't retire the role for lack of interest in the role itself but instead for lack of play time. To be honest, Kurac seemed OOCly so happy to have a volunteer for the role that it was shamefully easy to get ICly. If you really love red storm I encourage someone to try for this role.

Quote from: Agent_137 on April 15, 2010, 05:48:20 PM

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2010, 04:55:59 PM
............

I played a Kuraci Sand Master once.

They still do that? I've only seen/heard of it being done once.  :'( And it was a merchant of the house, I thought? Mm..

Also a vendor would still help, that would be a temp fix, not always going be someone willing to do a Kuraci Sand Master.

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
They still do that? I've only seen/heard of it being done once.

Only one way to find out.

Tangentially (and this is personal opinion only]), I'd prefer there to be some PC that handles Kuraci spice grebbing and bulk spice sales. My reason for this is that, in such a small place as Red Storm, having a PC handle spice would promote interaction that can be seriously lacking.

That said, I know that's not a solution to the problems surfacing in this thread.

I am 150% gung-ho seriously extremely over-the-toply in favor of more support for PC existence in Red Storm.

it's always been my favorite slice of armageddon. I'll have to swing around and see if I can find some folks.

Quote from: Oleupata on April 15, 2010, 07:10:56 PM

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
They still do that? I've only seen/heard of it being done once.

Only one way to find out.

Tangentially (and this is personal opinion only]), I'd prefer there to be some PC that handles Kuraci spice grebbing and bulk spice sales. My reason for this is that, in such a small place as Red Storm, having a PC handle spice would promote interaction that can be seriously lacking.

That said, I know that's not a solution to the problems surfacing in this thread.

I actually think this would be pretty cool.  If a Kuraci PC is buying spice, they would, in turn, have to push their drugz to the PC market for sale (or pass them on to an agent who does so).  This could do wonders for the PC spice trade. ;D  On a completely unrelated note, I always thought that it would be cool for Kuraci agents to try and lure in new clients with "free samples".  You could even make a mini-RPT event out of it...  You know, like wine tasting, only with spice?

I do have one concern about having a PC handle all that business though, and that's that it has a chance of really putting the off-peakers at a disadvantage, if they can't log on at the same time as said PC.  Also, given the low PC population of Red Storm, I'd expect a pretty high turnover rate for the role due to boredom (unless they travel, but then the spice hunters would have to do a lot of planning just to catch the "spice dealer" in time to sell their product). So, like most ideas, the benefits would need to be weighed against the drawbacks.

Quote from: Oleupata on April 15, 2010, 07:10:56 PM
Only one way to find out.

Guess the only real way to find out is by emailing the merchant house imms!

How would one go about that, anyway? Would they need to be a Kurac merchant or agent?
Special app?
Can a commoner get a job doing it, being hired by them?

Though a PC would be awesome, if we could have one all the time. Though seems its once in a blue moon. :'(

blackmagic, in my experience, any of those methods could work. Only a Kurac IMM or Agent could speak to the most efficient path.

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 08:54:05 PM

Quote from: Oleupata on April 15, 2010, 07:10:56 PM
Only one way to find out.

Guess the only real way to find out is by emailing the merchant house imms!

How would one go about that, anyway? Would they need to be a Kurac merchant or agent?
Special app?
Can a commoner get a job doing it, being hired by them?

Though a PC would be awesome, if we could have one all the time. Though seems its once in a blue moon. :'(

They would just say:

Quote from: General Merchant Houses staff
Find out ic.

Either way!

Their still a few issues with red storm needing lovings. With or without Sand Masters.

Vendor would be nice for when is not one, make it possible at least- not impossible anymore.
And think was a flat no to more apartments, though maybe to making the cheaper.

So....  Anymore comments and concerns? Or ideas? From folks?

I'm highly in favor of more apartments!!!

Quote from: Bast on April 16, 2010, 12:53:08 AM
I'm highly in favor of more apartments!!!

If you're struggling to find an apartment to call your own, you should consider "forcibly evicting" an existing tenant.  Permanently.  ;)

I wonder how many "existing tenants" are actually dead already.  300 IC days is a pretty long time.

Quote from: Synthesis on April 16, 2010, 01:02:38 AM
I wonder how many "existing tenants" are actually dead already.  300 IC days is a pretty long time.

Yeah, man.  That's like, just shy of nineteen real life days, which, given the character mortality rate, might be too long to wait before your own character bites the dust.

If you are the only person sifting spice in Storm, you can subsist with low playtimes and no apartment.  Depending on your guild or sub-guild, it can actually be easy to do better than subsisting as a sifter.  Add in another person, though, and suddenly it's hard to sell any spice, if you ask me.  Casual people come through Storm, too, and apparently will sell spice as well making it hard to do sifting as a dedicated job, unfortunately, in my experience.

If the shop would actually empty of spice, maybe.  Something more like the saltyards or the cottonfields is an interesting idea and could work too, though, and may be easier.  It wouldn't be too hard, I think to make the kuraci merchant not buy spice and add another kuraci merchant that functions off of those scripts.  The only problem is that it would require adding in another NPC, and where to put him?  Ideas?

Quote from: spawnloser on April 16, 2010, 01:31:42 AM
The only problem is that it would require adding in another NPC, and where to put him?  Ideas?

Probably close to the stables, the first place the grebbers would be when they return, most likely.

I'd think that adding a room to the Kuraci warehouse/shop would be the most logical location.  I'd write a room and NPC description, if the staff gives this the thumbs up.

Though I do agree there is a somewhat limiting space for PC survival in Red Storm, I am still near to content to how things are. Of course, some few additions could always go a long way.

I would like to see an NPC vendor for spice added - Allanak and Tuluk were given poop, salt and cotten vendors (in their respective locations). Beyond sand and NPC's with sharp-pointy things, I understand why Luirs Outpost is limited to it's vendors - Though the Vendors that they do have help well enough.

In my opinion, Red Storm shows the most "lop-sidedness" to their marketplace economy. No readily available Spice Vendor and the prices, even if for IC reasons, for certain items tend to go into the extremes - Either pitifully low or ridiculously high. I'd like to see a balance actually brought into the marketplace in RS. From my experience, certain animal parts from certain parts of the Known sell with varying prices of increase/decrease, dependent on their rarity to that area in which they are being sold. In RS, it seems this concept goes directly out the window - Nothing selling for more then 50 coins (again, from my personal experience).

Another thing I've noticed is that RS feels particularly "lonely". Most of the city suggests people moving under cover of hoods and facewraps from one place to another - I'd like to see a few NPC soldiers/commoners scripted to wander around.

My personal suggestions to "improve" Red Storm village:
1.) Add a spice vendor.
2.) Re-check and (hopefully) balance the buy/sell prices.
3.) Add NPC militia/commoner wander code.

Quote from: Aaron Goulet on April 16, 2010, 01:11:17 AM

Quote from: Synthesis on April 16, 2010, 01:02:38 AM
I wonder how many "existing tenants" are actually dead already.  300 IC days is a pretty long time.

Yeah, man.  That's like, just shy of nineteen real life days, which, given the character mortality rate, might be too long to wait before your own character bites the dust.

I think if the decay time was cut in half, once your pc dies, or set 10-20 days. Would help with not needing more apartments, since don't gotta wait half a month + for an opening from a dead guy.
I'd say simply are given up right away, though... eh.. no IC way to explain that, besides playability.

Giving it half-time, till the landlord gives up your shit? Got 100 days left? Die, only got 50. Shitty.
And would tell it so to the co-owners, or give them owner ship right away.

Woah. That is.. to much talking and rabble rabble.  :o

Quote from: Gunnerblaster on April 16, 2010, 02:18:38 AM
My personal suggestions to "improve" Red Storm village:
1.) Add a spice vendor.
2.) Re-check and (hopefully) balance the buy/sell prices.
3.) Add NPC militia/commoner wander code.

1) Yes.
2) Yes. Balance the unrealistic wealth one can amass there a bit more. Buy/sell prices.
3) I think they around wander? I believe last time my PC was there, they wandered. Eh.

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 16, 2010, 02:18:47 AM

Quote from: Aaron Goulet on April 16, 2010, 01:11:17 AM

Quote from: Synthesis on April 16, 2010, 01:02:38 AM
I wonder how many "existing tenants" are actually dead already.  300 IC days is a pretty long time.

Yeah, man.  That's like, just shy of nineteen real life days, which, given the character mortality rate, might be too long to wait before your own character bites the dust.

I think if the decay time was cut in half, once your pc dies, or set 10-20 days. Would help with not needing more apartments, since don't gotta wait half a month + for an opening from a dead guy.
I'd say simply are given up right away, though... eh.. no IC way to explain that, besides playability.

Giving it half-time, till the landlord gives up your shit? Got 100 days left? Die, only got 50. Shitty.
And would tell it so to the co-owners, or give them owner ship right away.

I don't want to derail but I think that if I ICly just paid my rent and died - My apartment should still be considered "rented" by me. It doesn't matter to the Land lords if they see me ever again or not. As far as they're concerned, I paid for however many days I have left and no need to bother me. If I don't pay - They just set my apartment back up for rent. And, ICly, land lords aren't going to go out of their way to find out your PC is dead and they aren't going to "assume" you're dead and just give away your apartment to the next person who buys it. Otherwise - That defeats the purpose of renting an apartment.

At Gunnerblaster since to lazy to quote all that:

That would be why I said. Their is no rp excuse for that, only playability to open up apartments and keep them in cycle more often. So less "more apartment" asking!
See? ;) Though.. back on topic to red storm! (open houses for rent and those unique apartments!)

It also creates the problem where, if someone knows what apartment you rent, and you're pretty religious about keeping it paid, they can find out if you are dead by going to your apartment building's lobby and typing 'list'.

I don't think the apartment issues in storm atm has anything to do with dead pcs.

I'd think the number of apartments is enough given the nature of the location. If they don't seem to be enough, maybe there are too many PCs in the area and time will fix that situation, or PCs based in other locations are renting apartments there only because they are less likely to be broken into. I have no idea though, just guessing.

I misunderstood the poll as meaning, "Do people in Red Storm need to love more?" I have no idea why, but I change my answer to a resounding yes.

Quote from: kuhfelsen on April 17, 2010, 10:05:54 PM
I misunderstood the poll as meaning, "Do people in Red Storm need to love more?" I have no idea why, but I change my answer to a resounding yes.

.... I want less friendly people, less loving people, in the game! This isn't happy bunny fuzzy fuofuo land! ;)

Though glad to see you agree.

I made a change that should help things.  While prices may change at this particular water seller after we review it some more, this is more in line with the other generic water sellers in-game.  I know the script isn't the easiest one to use so here's the recap:

Quote
Syntax:
list - gets a list of liquids for sale (also shows syntax)
offer <seller> <container> <liquid> - Ask how much to fill <container> with <liquid>
fill <seller> <container> <liquid> - Fill <container> with <liquid>

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 03:47:58 PM

Quote from: solera on April 15, 2010, 03:34:07 PM
I like having no profitable way of selling spice to NPC's in Storm.  It's a great incentive to go out and make contacts.

And I doubt Kurac would be very happy with you spice hunting, and making contacts to go sell it on your own. Undercutting their profit on their spice.

Thats bad?
I've no idea why the vendor was set to buy at dirt cheap prices though.
I have this feeling though, that Storm shouldn't have a vending machine  (whatever it buys) that can keep you solvent once you know how the system works.  That a PC sifter has to go out and sell it.
Though I guess you're right.
Storm is the only place I felt I Failed the game.

Quote from: solera on April 19, 2010, 03:04:06 PM

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 15, 2010, 03:47:58 PM

Quote from: solera on April 15, 2010, 03:34:07 PM
I like having no profitable way of selling spice to NPC's in Storm.  It's a great incentive to go out and make contacts.

And I doubt Kurac would be very happy with you spice hunting, and making contacts to go sell it on your own. Undercutting their profit on their spice.

Thats bad?
I've no idea why the vendor was set to buy at dirt cheap prices though.
I have this feeling though, that Storm shouldn't have a vending machine  (whatever it buys) that can keep you solvent once you know how the system works.  That a PC sifter has to go out and sell it.
Though I guess you're right.
Storm is the only place I felt I Failed the game.

I think Kuracis at least should be able to harvest their own spice codedly. It would open up a dynamic of economy uncommon in the southlands.

I would also like to throw in that I agree that its odd the apartments only allow for two to a room. With the high rent and the fact that most likely two or three families might possibly be living under the same roof it seems odd to restrict the number or tenants to a room.

Worse than that, it actually seems that the number of tenants per room was cut in half on some buildings. I remember when there were places up in Tuluk that would rent 4/room and will now only rent 2/room.

I have yet to find these elusive 'red storm apartments'. :(

I think:
Should not be a rent limit at all. No limit. Why would a landlord care? As long as you bring the key back, and you pay your rent! Am I right?
Not like they need to make new keys, as you gotta return the key -every- time you leave...

I really liked the whole, multiple people packing into a place to afford it as indies. And we can't rent warehouses or houses.

If we could rent the unique apartments, houses, or warehouses. Sure, let two be the limit for apartments.
Since then if you wanna make a hunting group, rent a house together from bank house guy for your barracks. No houses/unique apartments. Oh well.


Also the water seller things is awesome!!

Now hopefully they can balance the unrealistic profit some crafter types can make, and balance out spice sifting more.
It is true that if their is more then ONE single PC that is sifting at any time, you can't even scrap by with coin.

Though.. I trust in our staff and that they are reviewing it as we speak!

(totally would write up the room, and npc, and reply scripts if they wanted)


Or get a Sand Master PC!! (both?)

Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 19, 2010, 07:20:49 PM
Now hopefully they can balance the unrealistic profit some crafter types can make, and balance out spice sifting more.
It is true that if their is more then ONE single PC that is sifting at any time, you can't even scrap by with coin.

Though.. I trust in our staff and that they are reviewing it as we speak!

I hope you're right.  :D  In my opinion and experience, profiting from anything other than "certain crafts" is extremely difficult.  Grebbers and spice gatherers definitely have the short, SHORT end of the stick here, and in the case of the latter, you'd really think it would be a more profitable trade (if you're wondering why, refer to my previous post).

The end result isn't very pretty, either; you tend to see quite a few people using the same subguild down there just so their PCs can survive.  This leads to less diversity in PC professions.

I just want to see spice gatherers get their fair shake.  Spice is one of the only two commonly "grebbable" resources in the area, and as others have pointed out, it's a high-risk profession with very little reward; so little, in fact, that I've played spice gatherers who lost more money on food and water than they made on spice in a given day.

Keep the support coming!!

Only way to make sure the Immortal Staff keep looking here!

MOAR IDEAS!  8)

I agree that something should be done regarding the profitability of spice sifting. Kurac gets a great deal of its supply from the folks who do this work, which is dangerous and dirty on a good day. It seems sensible that they would be fairly compensated, so as to keep them churning out more material for the House.

As well, something should be done about apartments in the village. Players want to live there, and where people want to be, there is RP. I'd say either lift the restriction on people-per-room, or expand the housing available. Maybe Kurac decides to build a new complex as a result of the influx of locals supporting sandcloth manufacturing and the spice trade.

What with the volcano and famine  things going on in Nak I'm seriously shocked more npc crowds aren't moving towards Storm. Population boom = building more to fit that population  ;D

Quote from: Bast on April 20, 2010, 02:04:36 PM
What with the volcano and famine  things going on in Nak I'm seriously shocked more npc crowds aren't moving towards Storm. Population boom = building more to fit that population  ;D

I don't think the Sand Lord necessarily -wants- more people in Red Storm, so why build more apartments? Half starved nakki people aren't his problem, let the templars take care of it.

Quote from: Bast on April 20, 2010, 02:04:36 PM
What with the volcano and famine  things going on in Nak I'm seriously shocked more npc crowds aren't moving towards Storm. Population boom = building more to fit that population  ;D

They're moving, just not so much to Red Storm.

Quote from: Myrdryn on April 20, 2010, 04:22:01 PM

Quote from: Bast on April 20, 2010, 02:04:36 PM
What with the volcano and famine  things going on in Nak I'm seriously shocked more npc crowds aren't moving towards Storm. Population boom = building more to fit that population  ;D

They're moving, just not so much to Red Storm.

Allanak aside... and yes.. you can find Allanak npc crowds in other places. (not red storm)
Still the population in red storm, and the sifting/profit issues.

Though this seems, strange..

Red Storm is not going to get more apartments for various IC reasons and a few OOC reasons.  Red Storm's apartments are not going to get more renters added to them, either.  This one is far more of an OOC restriction.

As mentioned previously:

Quote from: Nyr on April 15, 2010, 03:30:26 PM
Red storm is a very small location.  The one-room apartments are really all that would be available; I don't foresee us adding more to add further incentive to dilute the playerbase, and really, it's not meant to be a high-volume PC hang out place.

I can understand the apartment things. Though seems something is confusing me with them.

Mm.. So the apartment thing is settles: Turn this thread back toward the other ideas, folks! No more apartment stuff.

Spice sifting.
Hunting.
Balancing profits.
And such.

Drudging up old topic:

Was any of this ever brought up for review on the IDB? More over, I am interested in the spice sifting being a more profitable market than selling grains one by one. Just have maybe a "sell sifter" and base the coin on how much you have in the sifter?

Quote from: Kieandatu on January 17, 2012, 05:15:15 AM
Drudging up old topic:

Was any of this ever brought up for review on the IDB?

Yes.  And we changed a few things a bit more than a year ago to bring sifting code in line with forage code.

Quote11/11/2010: Spice deposits may now be foraged in silty areas, primarily near the Eternal Sea -- Tiernan

If you read the thread, I also changed this:

Quote from: Nyr on April 19, 2010, 09:50:35 AM
I made a change that should help things.  While prices may change at this particular water seller after we review it some more, this is more in line with the other generic water sellers in-game.  I know the script isn't the easiest one to use so here's the recap:

Quote
Syntax:
list - gets a list of liquids for sale (also shows syntax)
offer <seller> <container> <liquid> - Ask how much to fill <container> with <liquid>
fill <seller> <container> <liquid> - Fill <container> with <liquid>

And we disagree with the rest of the proposed changes from players because we don't want this to be a major population center.  It's fine for a few indie PCs.  You can also get enough spice to greb for other folks if you'd like, though that means grebbing it and smuggling it/selling it.  Them's the breaks.  Being a spice grebber shouldn't be something that makes you independently wealthy.  Being a spice smuggler or seller, on the other hand, can make you wealthy, and has even more risks.

Being a spice sifter/smuggler/seller is something I would love to do, there is just one problem I have found...


I just want to see the ability to combine sifted grains into pinches, and pinches into knots...so on and so forth.

craft grain grain grain grain grain into a pinch of spice

Who wants to only buy your little grains from you? You cant roll them into awesome full tubes to smoke.

Smoking spice is something most people do because its fun to rp. Smoking your little one grain half-tube-limp-one-smoke-blunt is first off, not very cool looking, and second of all, kind of a pain.

So, most people just buy from Kuraci NPC's so they can sit around roleplaying smoking their awesome full tubes of spice and the independent sifters/smugglers/sellers are like, "But dont you want my crappy little one grain tubes? No, ok, I'll forage salt now."

I'm going to feel stupid if there is already a way for independent sifters to do this.

(If a way to do this already exists, I have never found it.)

I debated a few responses to individual points there, but the best one is to find out IC.

Quote from: Nyr on January 17, 2012, 10:51:19 AM
I debated a few responses to individual points there, but the best one is to find out IC.

I saw that coming.

I just always wondered if it was a coded syntax thing and not a world secret thing. How to combine grains into pinches...secret lore.

Well, to shift that idea slightly...

I just want to see the ability to roll multiple grains into a larger tube than a single half-tube-one-hit-crap-blunt.

make smoke grain 2.grain 3.grain 4.grain 5.grain

Or whatever...I may be beating a dead horse here.

Anyways, I personally think it would improve the playability aspect of a indy sifter/smuggler/seller. But, I'm sure there are lots of little things I am missing here.

Quote from: Desertman on January 17, 2012, 10:52:04 AMBut, I'm sure there are lots of little things I am missing here.

It does appear that this is the case.  As indicated, you can find out the answer by researching this in the game itself, IC.

Definitely find out IC on the grain/pinch thing. Also there are NPCs you can sell grains too, unless that was changed. I swear I've done it before on sifter PCs. if you want to sell to other PCs you need to be proactive and seek them out. In my experience Kuracis will come to you if they know you have a good haul of spice for them.

I'd say the only thing that bugs me is that you can't roll a 'full' tube, due to the coded 'amounts' of pinches. It wasn't this way until amounts were better represented, which leads me to believe it was more of an oversight of the original builders. A full tube should be 3 hits, not 5. Not that I don't think the 5-hit tubes are awesome.

You should also be able to roll 3 grains into one spice tube. That's just common sense! You're wrapping it up in paper. It'll stay there.

Only Kurac can roll a full tube? That's a bit of a stretch.

Quote from: Desertman on January 17, 2012, 10:38:36 AM
I just want to see the ability to combine sifted grains into pinches, and pinches into knots...so on and so forth.

One thing that can be said is the Kurac stuff is supposedly much more pure.  If you wanted to clump it into knots, it just might not have the stickiness necessary due to silt and such.

Quote from: Delirium on January 17, 2012, 11:28:14 AM
You should also be able to roll 3 grains into one spice tube. That's just common sense! You're wrapping it up in paper. It'll stay there.

That would actually be a fairly good update for the code.  Until then, though, an illicit spice dealer might want to sell his stuff in pre-packed pipes.

Quote from: Delirium on January 17, 2012, 11:28:14 AM
You should also be able to roll 3 grains into one spice tube. That's just common sense! You're wrapping it up in paper. It'll stay there.

Provided it doesn't scale up from there, your argument seems reasonable.  The "make" code is probably older than crafting...

I'm 99% positive it is, actually!

Just buy a pipe, sheesh.

Quote from: Nyr on January 17, 2012, 11:40:46 AM

Quote from: Delirium on January 17, 2012, 11:28:14 AM
You should also be able to roll 3 grains into one spice tube. That's just common sense! You're wrapping it up in paper. It'll stay there.

Provided it doesn't scale up from there, your argument seems reasonable.  The "make" code is probably older than crafting...

This is exactly what I wanted...

Quote from: Desertman on January 17, 2012, 10:38:36 AM


I just want to see the ability to combine sifted grains into pinches, and pinches into knots...so on and so forth.

craft grain grain grain grain grain into a pinch of spice

Just ask Kurac for there secret way of doing that. I'm sure there willing to share.

What they don't want you to know is that their spice press is really just a mul squeezing grains of spice between his butt cheeks.

I haven't been able to make "full" tubes of spice for while now.  Even if you use a whole pinch, the end result is just "half" of tube.  The only way I know to get full tubes of spice is the buy them from a single merchant in game.

I think Delirium's idea of being able to roll x amount of grains (or pinches) into a "full" tube is really good.

Quote from: Synthesis on January 17, 2012, 01:02:27 PM
What they don't want you to know is that their spice press is really just a mul squeezing grains of spice between his butt cheeks.

I laughed. lol

I do not like the idea of making it possible to make smokes with multiple grains.  I can only agree to it if 'grains' would have some significant penalties to smoking them. It is the 'unprocessed' impure spice after all.

But mostly, I prefer it how it is. If you do not like one toke=one smoke, buy a pipe. Buying a pipe gives you the opportunity of finding a PC merchant whether Kurac or not and buying it. It also gives the opportunity for PC templars to search your pack, find the pipe, and ram it up your ass for having spice paraphernalia. It also gives PCs the opportunity of running spice houses, by loaning pipes out, so people would not need to carry those heavy things around. Overall ... the unpinched grains only add to the game, but do not remove it.

Only only only thing I can envision, is a creation of some kind of a mini pinch. Let's call it a 'clump'. It would require 5 grains of spice, and create a clump that gives you 3 tokes. Extra points for making the clump fall apart on an agility check or whatever based chance when you are trying to make a smoke out of it. 

Once upon a time in Red Storm, there were three apartments that PCs had to meet a playtime requirement to rent out.  These apartments had to be set up manually by imms.  By "set up," I mean imms had to give the key for them.

For those who are familiar with Storm, it just be fairly easy to guess which three apartments I'm referring to.

Most people outside of Red Storm wouldn't -want- to move there. You have escaped muls, criminals, slaves, magickers, murders, and scum, sifting for spice and salt. On top of all of this the weather is shit, there's a giant sea of salt right beside it that has nasty things coming out of it. This is a place where people don't make eye contact, or ask too many questions for a reason.

Most of the population is on the run from something, or comes from a parent who was on the run from something. It's where the rejects of Zalanthas go. There's something very unwelcoming about that if you happen to live anywhere outside of Red Storm.

Quote from: janeshephard on February 15, 2012, 04:31:29 PMMost of the population is on the run from something, or comes from a parent who was on the run from something. It's where the rejects of Zalanthas go. There's something very unwelcoming about that if you happen to live anywhere outside of Red Storm.

Considering PCs tend to be a cut above the rest of the population, and many seem to be a hidden thief/assassin/gicker/bender/backstabber (figuratively), its probably palateable to most of the playerbase.  Plus, no templars/nobles/less ass to kiss, afaik.

Edited to add: Re: below.  Got it :P

Quote from: Ktavialt on February 15, 2012, 04:37:16 PM

Quote from: janeshephard on February 15, 2012, 04:31:29 PMMost of the population is on the run from something, or comes from a parent who was on the run from something. It's where the rejects of Zalanthas go. There's something very unwelcoming about that if you happen to live anywhere outside of Red Storm.

Considering PCs tend to be a cut above the rest of the population, and many seem to be a hidden thief/assassin/gicker/bender/backstabber (figuratively), its probably palateable to most of the playerbase.  Plus, no templars/nobles/less ass to kiss, afaik.

I should have quoted the post I was responding to. What I meant is that commoners in Allanak would sooner go to Luir's than Red Storm. Although I would tend to think they'd clutch at their tall walls until their dying breath because Vrun Driath is not all that safe to travel in.

Maybe we should try re-branding the Red Storm, giving it and the local area names that sound a little less foreboding and inhospitable.
We could call the Red Storm Cuddletown, and the Red Desert the Endless Waves of Approval and Harmony.

Quote from: Kronibas on January 17, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
I haven't been able to make "full" tubes of spice for while now.  Even if you use a whole pinch, the end result is just "half" of tube. 

Found the error, this should be fixed for any new rolled up tubes of spice.  Pinch + papers = no more half-tube, that's a full tube.

Quote from: Nyr on February 23, 2012, 04:06:26 PM

Quote from: Kronibas on January 17, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
I haven't been able to make "full" tubes of spice for while now.  Even if you use a whole pinch, the end result is just "half" of tube.

Found the error, this should be fixed for any new rolled up tubes of spice.  Pinch + papers = no more half-tube, that's a full tube.

Thankyou so much! <3 <3 ,£

Quote from: Nyr on February 23, 2012, 04:06:26 PM

Quote from: Kronibas on January 17, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
I haven't been able to make "full" tubes of spice for while now.  Even if you use a whole pinch, the end result is just "half" of tube. 

Found the error, this should be fixed for any new rolled up tubes of spice.  Pinch + papers = no more half-tube, that's a full tube.

So good.

Quote from: Yam on February 23, 2012, 05:21:24 PM

Quote from: Nyr on February 23, 2012, 04:06:26 PM

Quote from: Kronibas on January 17, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
I haven't been able to make "full" tubes of spice for while now.  Even if you use a whole pinch, the end result is just "half" of tube. 

Found the error, this should be fixed for any new rolled up tubes of spice.  Pinch + papers = no more half-tube, that's a full tube.

So good.

SO GOOD.

Omnomnomnomnom!
Go NYR!

Quote from: Kronibas on January 17, 2012, 06:12:00 PM
Once upon a time in Red Storm, there were three apartments that PCs had to meet a playtime requirement to rent out.  These apartments had to be set up manually by imms.  By "set up," I mean imms had to give the key for them.

For those who are familiar with Storm, it just be fairly easy to guess which three apartments I'm referring to.

A minimum of 20 days play time, by the way.

Quote from: Nyr on February 23, 2012, 04:06:26 PM

Quote from: Kronibas on January 17, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
I haven't been able to make "full" tubes of spice for while now.  Even if you use a whole pinch, the end result is just "half" of tube. 

Found the error, this should be fixed for any new rolled up tubes of spice.  Pinch + papers = no more half-tube, that's a full tube.

(http://troll.me/images/ancient-aliens-guy/the-joint-was-this-big-it-could-only-been-created-with-alien-technology.jpg)

Or Nyr.  Good show, sir.  Good show.

im not saying it was aliens that changed the size of the spice tubes

Hehehe. That guy with Centauri hair is such a doofus.

Relevant: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/36cdra/

Quote from: Nyr on February 27, 2012, 03:03:13 PM
im not saying it was aliens that changed the size of the spice tubes

It were the Dutch.

Quote from: BleakOne on February 27, 2012, 04:04:50 PM
Hehehe. That guy with Centauri hair is such a doofus.

I dont know what's worse. Someone using 'centauri' as a way to describe the hair, or me actually understanding what they ment.

Quote from: Iiyola on February 27, 2012, 05:08:51 PM

Quote from: Nyr on February 27, 2012, 03:03:13 PM
im not saying it was aliens that changed the size of the spice tubes

It were the Dutch.

And carnies. "Small hands, smell of cabbage."

Quote from: Dar on February 27, 2012, 08:25:56 PM

Quote from: BleakOne on February 27, 2012, 04:04:50 PM
Hehehe. That guy with Centauri hair is such a doofus.

I dont know what's worse. Someone using 'centauri' as a way to describe the hair, or me actually understanding what they ment.

:D

I love BleakOne now.  B5, my favorite show ever.