Quote from: flurry on Today at 06:50:50 PMI wonder if there would be any benefit for players to be required to submit a brief report after a PK. I understand it's expected for some roles, but as far as I know it's not a requirement for all. If nothing else, it would bring staff into the loop sooner for minimal effort.

I'm pretty sure PK reports are required, at the very least they're in the Karma requirements. The issue is that staff thinks rp that has happened away from the victim counts. As long as the PKer has made the reasons apparent to himself and staff, it doesn't matter what the victim experiences. I've made a couple of player complaints on characters who have attacked me with zero care for the virtual world, zero rp towards me or any communication as to why they were trying to kill me and I either get 'players are allowed to play bandits' or 'there was rp, you just didn't see it', both of which I don't personally think is sufficient standards for an action that can delete months or even  years of a player's progress.

I do want to make clear that I'm not trying to bash on staff, as if the rules aren't there, I don't expect them to act differently, but my problem really is with the lack of PK-related rules/standards.

That's really unfortunate and I can see how that would be discouraging. I haven't experienced that scenario exactly, but I've had characters killed for reasons that were not apparent to me.

I wonder if there would be any benefit for players to be required to submit a brief report after a PK. I understand it's expected for some roles, but as far as I know it's not a requirement for all. If nothing else, it would bring staff into the loop sooner for minimal effort.

Quote from: Riev on Today at 05:34:02 PMCan't kill the new Salarri Merchant? Well. Kill their Recruit crafter they hired 2 RL days ago. With no emotes and no preamble so you can 'send a message'. Did it work? It sent a message alright. I was the new Salarri Recruit, and I walked into a shop and got a zero-prompt mantis head.

Just to back this up, this has literally happened to me on a brand new crafter that joined a GMH while the GMH PC leader had pissed someone off. I was harassed every day by a gick I could do literally nothing about, it was so bad that I actually stopped playing the game for several months. I was a 4-day old character with no relationships or reputation, I had absolutely zero idea why it was happening or any of the plot around it.

Normally @Dresan I find your posts longwinded and I don't always agree. I wanted to say that to emphasize how much I agree with the above.

Can't kill the new Salarri Merchant? Well. Kill their Recruit crafter they hired 2 RL days ago. With no emotes and no preamble so you can 'send a message'. Did it work? It sent a message alright. I was the new Salarri Recruit, and I walked into a shop and got a zero-prompt mantis head.

We will always have people whose focus is being the best at combat. Whether to flex on other players, whether to feel confident in RPTs, or even just to force social situations to go their way because of the OOC fear they can kill you.


With the new season, and the on-topic non-support of Tuluk and some other areas, I hope that staff will have more time to observe and play WITH us. And if the players are focusing on the story and the roleplay AS WELL AS making sure they don't die to a failed flee from a raider pack, I think we'll be okay.

Quote from: Lizzie on Today at 08:43:43 AMContracting out the death of someone is not only a viable way to kill a PC, it also ADDs to the shared story by bringing someone else into it, and turning a single PC-single PC "shared story" into an actual plotline. ESPECIALLY when the target of the contract is the antagonist - someone who's been pilfering, burglarizing, and then taunting the person hiring the contractor, because that person isn't a crafter-type, who is physically incapable of standing up for themselves.

Does it suck to be the target of a kill? Yup. Should SOME people maybe consider that, next time they antagonize other people? Yup.

If assholes were targeting assholes then I doubt we would be discussing it right now. But that isn't what happens and it isn't what is being referred to here.

Instead, when a player cannot kill another player, and often vise versa, they sometimes use that as an excuse to target anyone involved or related with their 'enemy'. The two reason for this happening being rather common in this game.

1. 'IC Consequences' - if the target of your ire is a sponsored role, special role, or high karma role you have historically taken the risk of a staffer getting involved and reviewing you motives, methods, reports and everything else to see if it was warranted. In short, IC consequences are partially determined by OOC factors before a decision is made on how the world reacts, and/or whether or not you deserve to keep some of your karma. The outcome can depend on who is on the staffer's friend/shit lists. You would have an easier time killing their lover, someone working for them on the side, perhaps a low level clan member they flirt with where IC consequences have been historically much less enforced.

2. 'Strong class combo' - whether they got there through staff boosting, special app, high karma role or just good old fashion powergaming, the time honored art of guild sniffing has not gone away, and decisions are made based upon how strong the character is and likely to retaliate. If sponsored role A thinks you are playing hidden sorcerer, shit slides off them like it were petals of roses until they find out you have a mundane class. Again against skilled character people tend to just target everyone around them. A thread somewhat inline with this topic can be found here: Combat: Arm's Hack&Slash Legacy

This is a crappy situation, and its been allowed for the longest time because it happens in RL, stories and movies. This is what ruthless people just do, they target those around you, so should be allowed in game. However, the game cannot support this type of mentality. Its not enough to kiss the ass of sponsored roles, but I guess you can't do business or smile with X,Y or Z since that will also give people reason to butcher you mercilessly.

And to tie all this back to my original point, when its a fraction vs fraction setting, the primary enemies for these sponsored roles will all fall under category number 1. At that point these bored people often find excuses to flex their virtual muscle on just about everyone else who doesn't fit into one of the categories above, with the flimsiest 'you ain't with me, so you must be against me' excuses. I've been playing on and off since Luirs was destroyed by the mantis invasion, and in all that time I've been involved in 2 pks, one was as part of a military order by a templar to kill a captured criminal in a group and the second time was by accident, using blunt weapons when I forgot to put mercy on. I rarely found reason to murder anyone, yet I've been murdered repeatedly over the years and when I became too hard to kill, those around me begin disappearing, so they weren't just killing my character at that point, they are just killing the reasons i log in at all.

I have nothing again Pk, especially someone just trying to PK just -my- character, but it can get utter ridiculous the lengths people can to go to destroy someone's enjoyment of the game. I  sincerely believe there is a group of people involved in this game who get their jollies by finding excuses to destroy the efforts of others....X has been living Y long, cool, lets kill them/their friends, X is trying to accomplish Y, lets kill/stop them, A is about to achieve B, lets kill/prevent them. They can play high karma roles or sponsored roles, or sometimes they might even be on staff but they do nothing but maintain the status quo and destroy anything standing out that doesn't have protection from another staff member. This problem has been around a long time and is often supported and encouraged by staff. In my opinion, this setting makes the problem more prevalent, with less places to escape or avoid ongoing disputes, and more so because this game's smaller population can no longer afford to entertain staff's bored friends by letting them destroy other people effort for no reason at all.

At the end though, this just food for thought for the upcoming season.

Quote from: Lizzie on Today at 08:43:43 AMKilling a PC because they were rude to you in the Gaj is a shitty way to treat the shared story. UNLESS you are playing a noble or templar, and gave them warnings to stop, and they were "victim-hobos" who thrive on submitting player complaints to whine about how they were killed for no good reason. That happens, almost as often as PCs get killed in the Gaj for being rude.

I can agree with this, it basically just comes down to 'fuck around and find out', but I also think templars/nobles can do something more interesting than merely 'killing' with their power. I have also personally contracted someone to kill someone else, but this was 100% just a last-resort sort of scenario.

Quote from: Riev on May 11, 2024, 07:26:46 PMWhile it is still off topic, I just wanted to mention:

Killing a player character is totally fine and a viable way to resolve conflict.
Killing a player character because they "were rude to you in the Gaj" is a viable way to resolve the conflict, but is a shitty way to treat the shared story.
Contracting out a death of someone you don't like is a viable way to resolve the conflict and is still a shitty way to treat the shared story.
...
Player Character murder just happens too much as the first and only solution (Dare I say... the final solution)

Killing a PC because they were rude to you in the Gaj is a shitty way to treat the shared story. UNLESS you are playing a noble or templar, and gave them warnings to stop, and they were "victim-hobos" who thrive on submitting player complaints to whine about how they were killed for no good reason. That happens, almost as often as PCs get killed in the Gaj for being rude.

Contracting out the death of someone is not only a viable way to kill a PC, it also ADDs to the shared story by bringing someone else into it, and turning a single PC-single PC "shared story" into an actual plotline. ESPECIALLY when the target of the contract is the antagonist - someone who's been pilfering, burglarizing, and then taunting the person hiring the contractor, because that person isn't a crafter-type, who is physically incapable of standing up for themselves.

Does it suck to be the target of a kill? Yup. Should SOME people maybe consider that, next time they antagonize other people? Yup.

Quote from: Riev on May 11, 2024, 06:30:48 PMJust saying. Sometimes stuff sucks.

What is that meant to contribute exactly?

Quote from: Riev on May 11, 2024, 07:26:46 PMMurder hobo doesn't really happen so much, in my opinion. Player Character murder just happens too much as the first and only solution (Dare I say... the final solution)

I also don't think murder hobos are common, as I mentioned before, in my year of playing I encountered around 5-6. I do think players that's backstories are just 'I'm a psychopath and want to kill people' should probably be rejected though. Otherwise I do agree that murder is a viable answer to resolve a conflict, but I also do think other things should be tried first.

A big thing in the other roleplay communities that I play inside is basically just 'proper escalation', and it's PvP RP 101 to be honest. It's a lot better roleplay to go from for example, throwing insults > shoving and pushing > throwing fists > a weapon gets drawn, that sort of thing. Actually roleplay out tensions rising rather than just doing 'draw mace;kill elf'. No only is resorting to murder straight away an incredibly boring thing, especially for the victim, but doing the opposite and creating rivalries and tension add a lot to the game's atmospheres and dynamics imo.

While it is still off topic, I just wanted to mention:

Killing a player character is totally fine and a viable way to resolve conflict.
Killing a player character because they "were rude to you in the Gaj" is a viable way to resolve the conflict, but is a shitty way to treat the shared story.
Contracting out a death of someone you don't like is a viable way to resolve the conflict and is still a shitty way to treat the shared story.


The issue of murder hobo has always been one of the following:

• two handed bludgeoning dwarves that cost 0 karma and have enough endurance to tank the soldiers after they kill you at the Gaj
• Killing someone in the 'rinth because "they were clearly a PC and the 'rinth is a murder zone"
• pretending to engage in relationship roleplay so you can apartment-kill someone you don't like

Still not against PK. Just FOR alternative ways to engage in conflict. Break a finger. Hire a breed to piss on them. Hire an elf to steal their favorite spice pipe. Hire a 'rinthi burglar to steal their latest Hunter's Haul in their apartment.

Murder hobo doesn't really happen so much, in my opinion. Player Character murder just happens too much as the first and only solution (Dare I say... the final solution)