New players and even old alike need some kind of skill sheet or comprehensive list of what can and can not be done in game. The descriptions for both the main guilds and sub-guilds are pretty vague. I understand it should be an experience to learn about your character in game and to grow with it over time, but for a game that has such stringent rules in character creation and also validation, I would assume you would want to make it as much an enjoyable experience as possible for both the players and the admins. I am sure it takes time and effort on the part of the admins to validate each and every submission. And they get 'Tells' left and right about new players and maybe old ones re-rolling about what such and such does.
I think it would be far easier to just have the info known. I am not saying it has too be a 100% tell all sheet, a little mystery and intrigue is fine, it doesn't have to be presented in anything as nice and eye catching as spread sheets and graphs, but more than the bare bones there are now. Most games give a detailed account on what you can or can not do, either in game before/during character creation or also on their websites. However, this game doesn't as far as I can tell and I have seen more than one thread on the same topic, but they were a few years old.
If the admins are busy, surely there are others with such knowledge willing to post their gems of wisdom for the general populace. Not random thoughts or here says mind you, we need confirmation from other reputable players as well, but a list should be able to be created and stickied, so as to always be at the top of the forum. A lot of other forums do this as a work around, so as to save time for admins.
I took the time to go to both the main website and the forum. I looked through the first few pages of many topics and threads, even random ones that looked like they might help and I even used the search function, but found nothing to what I was really looking for, although one thread hinted at a few ideas and I am sure there are specific threads of a particular skill, but I am talking about a 'one thread to rule them all' type thing and one very easily accessible. And undoubtedly in the end players will still probably have questions to ask here and in game, but the amount of questions and the amount of replies should be greatly lessened, as too the frustration of not really knowing what the players are getting into in the game.
If this information is actually some where and I missed it, my apologies in advance. I do not want to rub any shoulders the wrong way, I did not want to necro any old threads nor beat a dead horse, but something like this would be really nice and help new players and older ones who are frustrated and free up time for admins I would assume. I am sure no matter what you do players will still have questions, but this should drastically help. Thank you for your time, patience and understanding.
First of all Welcome to Armageddon.
To address this I wanted to say the reason skills aren't mentioned too much in the help files for the different guilds is because that's the way staff probably wants it. They want things to be a mystery. The other thing is that other MUDs that list are not as focused on RP as Armageddon is. With Armageddon you aren't judged by how quickly you can max out on skills, or what skills you have in the first place. If other PCs are doing this I don't think they should be. First and foremost you should develop a character. Take time to learn things and have a persona. In a place where an being an Assassin doesn't mean you have to be around just to kill other players... Or being a hunter doesn't mean you can't just be a vegetarian.... Skills just aren't important.
The help files for each particular guild gives a lot of an indication as to what each one is able to do. Granted being a new player it might not be as easy to discern. I urge you to read each guild and subguild and extended subguild help file several times over. Even as a new player you should get a lot of things out of them that should allude to what each is capable of having for skill.
Hi NewPlayer! Welcome to Armageddon!
Your question sounds to me like you're uncertain about what differences might be between certain guilds or subguilds? The helpfiles do cover most of what a guild can be expected to do, but they're written in paragraph form instead of skill list form. For example, from help warrior, we can see:
A warrior's skills involve only the many aspects of fighting. Every
warrior possesses an aptitude for all weapons, and can learn to master them
far beyond the meager abilities of other guilds. Unarmed combat, expert
battle maneuvers such as disarming, the ability to hurl missiles, strategic
withdrawal, and the eventual expert use of bows and arrows are all part of a
warrior's skills. Some master warriors can learn to bandage the wounded.
It looks like what you were hoping to see is more along the lines of something like this?
Weapon skills
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
piercing weapons (novice) slashing weapons (novice)
chopping weapons (novice) bludgeoning weapons (novice)
Can I ask why the skill sheet approach would be more useful to you than a helpfile? I personally wouldn't see anything wrong with showing the initial skill lists of the 0-karma main guilds, but I think you run into trouble when you start revealing what skills branch what, or what the maximum skill level a certain guild can reach in a particular skill is, because if people know OOCly that warriors can reach Master in chopping weapons but just Advanced in piercing, suddenly no guild_warriors will ever want to use piercing weapons even when it might make sense ICly to do so. (My example is totally made up, btw.) And you definitely don't want to expose the skill lists of any of the karma guilds, since such things can be found out IC if you are unfortunate enough to ever meet one.
Can you be a bit more specific in what you're trying to figure out exactly, and maybe we can offer some more advice?
This was a problem back when the helpfiles were more vague and sometimes even missing skill references, but that's been mostly rectified from what I've seen.
Hey there, welcome to the game!
The descriptions for the main guilds are a bit vague but they do detail for the most part what one can expect. However, all subguilds detail every skill they get (it is not in a specific list format, but in written paragraph form).
I'm afraid that we are not going to create a list of the skills each guild gets. For the most part, this can be discovered through the helpfiles for those guilds as well as the helpfiles for those skills. We expect a certain amount of discovery in-game for some things, and this is one of those things. It's pretty rare for a starting skill to not be mentioned in a guild helpfile, though, as I recall...
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on October 14, 2013, 03:48:21 PM
First of all Welcome to Armageddon.
To address this I wanted to say the reason skills aren't mentioned too much in the help files for the different guilds is because that's the way staff probably wants it. They want things to be a mystery. The other thing is that other MUDs that list are not as focused on RP as Armageddon is. With Armageddon you aren't judged by how quickly you can max out on skills, or what skills you have in the first place. If other PCs are doing this I don't think they should be. First and foremost you should develop a character. Take time to learn things and have a persona. In a place where an being an Assassin doesn't mean you have to be around just to kill other players... Or being a hunter doesn't mean you can't just be a vegetarian.... Skills just aren't important.
The help files for each particular guild gives a lot of an indication as to what each one is able to do. Granted being a new player it might not be as easy to discern. I urge you to read each guild and subguild and extended subguild help file several times over. Even as a new player you should get a lot of things out of them that should allude to what each is capable of having for skill.
I can understand and actually appreciate this game being RP focused opposed to simple level grinding. However, I do not want to pick a race, a guild and a sub-guild to totally find I gimped my character in the short or long term. I never expect to be the best of the best, it clearly wont happen, but I also do not want to have skills that overlap if they do not need to be or get skills I simply wont need for the character I am playing. I am also assuming there are more skills than listed or basic skills all races or certain races start with that makes other skills gained by joining a guild or sub-guild useless.
And I actually have read the help files or at least what I am assuming the help files are, several times. I have narrowed my choices down to but a few. However, I still do not want to gimp my character, plus I am thinking of others in the same boat such as my self for future reference.
I would think the help chat might be the way to go.
First, don't worry about races in terms of skills: in Armageddon, races don't get special racial skills or powers (e.g. not all elves have the steal skill). Any of the four starting races is codedly viable for any of the six starting guilds. Socially, you will probably find it much much easier to play a human.
In terms of guilds having skills you won't need... pretty much every guild has some skills you'll use quite often, and some you may not touch at all. That's just the nature of the game no matter what class you pick. The helpfiles on subguilds and guilds are pretty good about identifying overlap; if it sounds like there might be one, there probably is. This isn't necessarily bad; for example, a Warrior with the Guard subguild will be better at guarding than a warrior with the Armormaker subguild, but he obviously won't be able to craft armor. Focus on what skills sound the most interesting on day 1, and pick those! If your character lives long enough and goes in a totally different direction, you can request that staff add/change your skills via roleplay.
It sounds like you might be confusing "guild" with "clan." Guilds aren't things you join in this game. They're skillsets you pick during the character creation process. Using warrior as the example - here's what you can expect:
QuoteA warrior's skills involve only the many aspects of fighting. Every warrior possesses an aptitude for all weapons, and can learn to master them far beyond the meager abilities of other guilds. Unarmed combat, expert battle maneuvers such as disarming, the ability to hurl missiles, strategic withdrawal, and the eventual expert use of bows and arrows are all part of a warrior's skills. Some master warriors can learn to bandage the wounded.
So - ALL weapons. That would be melee and ranged weapons, plus unarmed. Notice this does not mean a warrior will be able to do everything with all weapons - only that they will have an aptitude for them all. It's been clarified in the forum at some point, that warriors would -not- have backstab as a skill. However, they can master stabbing weapons. Backstab is a style of fighting, not a type of weapon. So this makes sense, both ICly and OOCly.
Disarming - disarm is a coded skill. Warriors get that. Strategic withdrawal - this means flee. Flee is a coded skill. *eventual* expert use of bows and arrows - implies that warrior doesn't start out with archery but will eventually branch it.
"Some master warriors can learn to bandage the wounded" - means again - your character wouldn't start out with it, but you can eventually branch it.
So a warrior won't merely get all the weapon types - they will be able to master all of them. This is something no other guild can do. It might be better to clarify that warriors won't come with all weapon types at start-up - they'll come with several, and the rest can eventually branch.
I don't need a spreadsheet or pre-fab list to know these things, though certain terms might not be intuitive. If you see something about knocking someone out with an abrupt blow to the head - that skills is called "sap." It's a skill, and there's a help file for it. I've always been a proponent for "reverse dictionary" type help files, and the staff has done an amazing job in providing cross-references. But I can understand how some of it might get missed along the way. Just like backstab is not a weapon - it's a fighting style, so you might need to check combat strategies rather than weapon types, in the help files, to find references to it.
You really -will- find most of what you want to know, right in the guild and sub-guild help files. There is no way you can possibly gimp your character, unless you are asking for something that the game simply doesn't have, no matter which guild you pick. And to find that out - you need only to use the search engine for the term you want to find, and if there's no help file for it, then it's likely what you're looking for isn't a coded skill. But - you don't necessarily need a coded skill to achieve what you want your character to achieve. It depends on what you want, really. I mean - if you intend for your character to become the master male whore of Zalanthas - the only coded thing you "need" is the emote system. There's no coded mudsex skill. If you plan on your character trying to draw a master mural on a wall - okay there's no coded painting skill. But if you were to send a note to the staff, and choose Merchant as your main guild (which is the guild that can master all the existing crafting system), I'm sure they'd be happy to hear your reports of your attempts, over time, and once you've shown a steady and reasonable progression, they might accommodate you with a finished coded object or wall mural (check the artwork throughout Tuluk - most of it was created by PCs through roleplay and implemented by staff).
If you're looking to play a predominately combat-oriented character, then you -might- gimp yourself if you pick merchant - because they don't come with any weapon skills. If you're looking to create a masterpiece of art, you -might- gimp yourself if you pick warrior, with a thug sub-guild, because neither of those will master any crafting skill.
But this information is evident in the help files for each guild and subguild. Another thing that you might not know, as a newbie - is that if there's a reference to knowing how to navigate in storms (or similar verbiage) then there is a coded skill called "direction sense" that applies to it.
Other than that, it's pretty clearcut: archery - bows and arrow USE - fletchery - arrowMAKING..but not use. Critical strike of a pointed weapon - backstab skill. Ability to reach heights = climb skill. Ability to find hidden crevices = search skill.
And so on and so forth.
I actually agree that knowing the starting skills for main guilds would be a really good idea. Leave the discovery to 'what will I branch to' and not 'what skills appear on my sheet after my character is approved'.
I absolutely think players should know what skills will be on their begining skills lists, because they might have actually written references to these skills in their background or they might have a plan for a character and find out after character generation that they don't even have the basic skillset to do what they intended.
That said, I'm not advocating for the list format over the paragraph format, and the subguild descriptions I think are fine. What I think would be best for new players is for the main guilds to follow the subguild's example.
Chiming in to say that I am glad you enjoy the game enough (or at least it's concept) to offer up suggestions on ways that might make it better or smoother. It may sound like you get some rough critiques from the GDB base upon occasion, but it is because we all love this game deeply.
Breeds get a special ability, spelled out in the helpfile. I think, if I remember the answer to a question I posted before correctly, if there is skill overlap between guild/subguild/race, then I think your starting skill may be higher, but the cap is the highest one out of the three, so likely guild, but maybe subguild, or possibly race, all things depending.
If you plan on going outside, I'd reccomend a subguild which contains direction sense, I'm not sure of the other races but I don't think city elf gets it. If you want some extra coin while being stuck inside the walls, I'd suggest a craft subguild. I know you can make decent money with one of them, not sure of the others, though. If you're a ranger, I think you'll definitely get direction sense. It pays to carefully consider what you may be getting into, but any character is playable, even if you get slapped down on stats and end up with all the wrong skills, you can still do things with that character, I've had the most fun with some of my most "unplayable" characters.
So there's really no wrong way to do it. If you want combat, pick warrior, you can make a decent living as a skilled warrior hunting, grebbing, brawling, what have you. If you want sneaky scouty skills outside, ranger. If you want to play around with the crafting system and stack up tons of sid, merchant. The others may be more difficult to get into, especially at first. It just takes trial and error, I think. I've still got much to learn, didn't start too long ago, but the more I get into it the more possibilities I see. as someone mentioned, helper chat is your friend.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 14, 2013, 04:31:20 PM
First, don't worry about races in terms of skills: in Armageddon, races don't get special racial skills or powers (e.g. not all elves have the steal skill). Any of the four starting races is codedly viable for any of the six starting guilds. Socially, you will probably find it much much easier to play a human.
In terms of guilds having skills you won't need... pretty much every guild has some skills you'll use quite often, and some you may not touch at all. That's just the nature of the game no matter what class you pick. The helpfiles on subguilds and guilds are pretty good about identifying overlap; if it sounds like there might be one, there probably is. This isn't necessarily bad; for example, a Warrior with the Guard subguild will be better at guarding than a warrior with the Armormaker subguild, but he obviously won't be able to craft armor. Focus on what skills sound the most interesting on day 1, and pick those! If your character lives long enough and goes in a totally different direction, you can request that staff add/change your skills via roleplay.
Qapla'! Technically, I was referring more to the skills of the sub-guilds and when they begin to over lap and make skills already found in use by the main-guild or even the race redundant. I have read some where, as I recall, that if you pick two of the same kind of guilds, although your choices for expanding on other skills are mostly wasted, the said main skills are strengthened because of the two similar guilds. I just simply do not want to gimp my character.
I like reading the story paragraph version, as it seems to flow and I find it interesting and well written. But at the same time, as already previously stated, rather vague. A skill sheet is more of wanting to see what your character for race/guild/sub-guild can potentially become or it can at a glance tell you what is possible. (Like a link that says click for more info under the story paragraph that brings you to the skill sheet. I do see the 'See Also' links, but they too are a bit vague...)
As you stated, if in fact I wanted to be a warrior who wanted to master the pole-arms, so to speak or spear, but could only advance in it opposed to master it, to me it would make more sense to use what can be mastered, since the game puts a physical limit on advancement of said weapon that I had no idea of in the first place. (I wouldn't want to bring nun-chucks to a fight and use them haphazardly so to speak, when I could simply use a sword or staff or even hand to hand which I am very well proficient in.) Days, weeks, months or even years later I come to find that all along I had picked the wrong guild and or sub-guild. Kind of a set back even if you did make all those friends and enjoyed your time, my initial focus, (Including back ground info and RPing, was wanting to be a spear-man, possibly like my father such and such...) however was wasted.
Specifically I guess I should ask can Half-elves see in the dark like other games or stories or can humans for that matter in this setting. (Heck, does the day and night cycle, thus the sun and moon cycles even play a role in the game?) If H-E's prefer to be on their own and hunt their own food do they start out with stats already attuned to that? I see they are between a Human and an Elf in power and stature, so I can picture the out come at least in that regard middle of the road between the two. Do all races start with the same starting 'basic' skills or only some? Do some start better at some said skills? Are some forbidden or extremely hard to acquire? (I heard about pure Elves wont or refuse to ride or use a mount...)
I am thinking of being a Ranger and I see that their skills with poisons and healing is "ok". If I want to be a really good healer, I would assume I would need to take the Physician sub-guild. But maybe a Ranger can heal good enough to get by and or make his own bandages, etc, if not starting out, later in game. The description is there, it wets my palate, but when it is all said and done, does not give me knowledge of what can really be achieved. And there are quite a few sub-guilds that have parts of Rangers skills already in it, yet have their own unique stuff as well, at least opposed to Rangers.
And the Bard I like the idea of being able to play an instrument if it served some real purpose, but I am more interested in the ability to story tell in other languages. It seems like a bonus opposed to just being a Linguist, yet I really do not know since there is no detailed info on what either truly does. I mean are there Bard spells like other games or you simply 'pretend to play the lute' at taverns and people hand out coins cause it is part of the RPing? If that is all there is to it, would a Linguist just be better off in that sense and "this" Linguist can just 'pretend to play the lute'... Also I am reading there are nine or so different languages, but the Linguist only knows three... With time does the Linguist learn them all or can any one from any back ground and guild/sub-guild learn any and all languages? Does being a Linguist make it easier (Not counting the three languages you start with.) because of skills in learning a Linguist might have or being a pure Elf due to higher intelligence and or wisdom?
There are many more questions like this for all guilds/sub-guilds, but these are just a few of my most predominate ones, but other players might have their own which is why I posed the question of making a more detailed list.
Note: This post is replying to both your replies, so sorry if it sounds a little weird or redundant. Also I did not know that Admins would let you change your skills eventually, I thought you were stuck with them, although like you said, the character would have to be around long enough to be worth a change and for RP purposes.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 14, 2013, 05:04:46 PM
They're skillsets you pick during the character creation process. Using warrior as the example - here's what you can expect:
QuoteA warrior's skills involve only the many aspects of fighting. Every warrior possesses an aptitude for all weapons, and can learn to master them far beyond the meager abilities of other guilds. Unarmed combat, expert battle maneuvers such as disarming, the ability to hurl missiles, strategic withdrawal, and the eventual expert use of bows and arrows are all part of a warrior's skills. Some master warriors can learn to bandage the wounded.
For me at least, I guess what it really boils down to in a nut shell is, "
such as"...
Well what else can they do? I get this example, but I was also referring to the many other sub-guilds and all the other little nuances of the game. Do warriors get to dual wield only, or get to use shields only, or wear the best and heaviest of armours, etc.? Do they even get to forage (Or if so, suck at.) or hunt or if a Half-elf gets to start with that skill even if a Warrior class would not provide such a skill? Or do all races have the basic skills and are the same level starting or each race has their own stats in said skills. (I am not talking Str, Dex, Con, Wis, etc.)
Quote from: Narf on October 14, 2013, 05:14:03 PM
I actually agree that knowing the starting skills for main guilds would be a really good idea. Leave the discovery to 'what will I branch to' and not 'what skills appear on my sheet after my character is approved'.
I absolutely think players should know what skills will be on their begining skills lists, because they might have actually written references to these skills in their background or they might have a plan for a character and find out after character generation that they don't even have the basic skillset to do what they intended.
That said, I'm not advocating for the list format over the paragraph format, and the subguild descriptions I think are fine. What I think would be best for new players is for the main guilds to follow the subguild's example.
Exactly! However, even some sub-guilds only have two sentence long descriptions. I would assume there is a lot more to these guilds than that.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 14, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Narf on October 14, 2013, 05:14:03 PM
I actually agree that knowing the starting skills for main guilds would be a really good idea. Leave the discovery to 'what will I branch to' and not 'what skills appear on my sheet after my character is approved'.
I absolutely think players should know what skills will be on their begining skills lists, because they might have actually written references to these skills in their background or they might have a plan for a character and find out after character generation that they don't even have the basic skillset to do what they intended.
That said, I'm not advocating for the list format over the paragraph format, and the subguild descriptions I think are fine. What I think would be best for new players is for the main guilds to follow the subguild's example.
Exactly! However, even some sub-guilds only have two sentence long descriptions. I would assume there is a lot more to these guilds than that.
Err, no, actually all the subguild descriptions are complete. Even the ones that are only two sentences. I think I've actually gone through all of them to check, and I know Nyr has. You can consider them reliable and complete.
Anyone can wear any armor so long as they have the strength to wear them. Some sneaky skills may become impossible with heavy armor, I'd tell you more, but I don't usually play sneaky characters. Being encumbered heavily impacts combat abilities, so you may wish to pay careful attention to your weight, or just pile on the silt horror plate and say forget it.
I'm not sure any race gets infravision, maybe gith, but I don't think you can play those. If you wrote up an app for a mutie maybe you could get it, with some form of downside... I think there are ways to acquire it temporarily, but that would be a find out IG thing, myabe.
The difference between classes are the skills, and a small stat bump up or down depending on class and stat. Warriors don't get a bonus to heavy armor, but they have very, very good parrying abilities and some nice, small stat bumps, as well as unbelievable combat skills. Just, good luck with getting ambushed.
That said, I've heard it said before three maxxed warriors will find themselves at the mercy of a single well played ranger outside the gates, unless any of them can scan well, and even then, well, I wouldn't know because I haven't seen it, someone with more experience would have to spell that out. Suffice to say every class gets some huge advantage somewhere, the three recomended classes just get those advantages somewhere easiest for new players to take advantage of and learn with.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 14, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Narf on October 14, 2013, 05:14:03 PM
I actually agree that knowing the starting skills for main guilds would be a really good idea. Leave the discovery to 'what will I branch to' and not 'what skills appear on my sheet after my character is approved'.
I absolutely think players should know what skills will be on their begining skills lists, because they might have actually written references to these skills in their background or they might have a plan for a character and find out after character generation that they don't even have the basic skillset to do what they intended.
That said, I'm not advocating for the list format over the paragraph format, and the subguild descriptions I think are fine. What I think would be best for new players is for the main guilds to follow the subguild's example.
Exactly! However, even some sub-guilds only have two sentence long descriptions. I would assume there is a lot more to these guilds than that.
Save for branching skills, the main guilds are the same way. If you find a skill where this is not true then staff can fix it if you send in a request or typo/bug/idea it.
New Player, I love that you responded to my post in Klingon. I like you. I think you're gonna do well here. :)
It seems like you have lots of detailed questions, which is awesome. Let me echo Barzalene and definitely suggest you check out the Helper chat. Beyond that, some general advice: very few players, even veteran ones, survive long enough on a character to reach the coded maximums of skills for our guilds or subguilds. So I wouldn't fear the choice of guild/subguild much, or the skills you start using once you start, because in all likelihood, whether you pick Subguild Bard or Subguild Linguist won't make much difference to save you from a templar or a scrab.
Again, pick what sounds fun and give it a try! The most important thing is to pick a concept you'd like to roleplay.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 14, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
Again, pick what sounds fun and give it a try! The most important thing is to pick a concept you'd like to roleplay.
I think this can't be emphasized enough. Pick a concept you'd like to roleplay, -instead- of picking a skillset you'd like to max. Use the available skillsets to support your concept, instead of making up a background to support a skillset.
So - if your concept involves a real outdoorsy type, try a ranger. If you want your outdoorsy type to have some kind of income-producing hobby on the side, add a crafting subguild. Use common sense for this - if your outdoorsy ranger is going to spend most of his time away from major trade routes, you might want to avoid clothworking as an option, because you can't forage for silk in the dunes; you have to buy it. On the other hand, if you plan for your outdoorsy type to be a stolid city-dweller who just really loves going out for fresh air and hunting, you might do great with clothworking as your subguild. Or...you might prefer to pick Merchant as the main guild - and hunter or scavenger for a subguild, which would give you the *very basic* survival skills you'd need outside the safety of city walls.
Once you get the hang of roleplay in Armageddon, AND you've experienced personally how the skills "work" - only then will you really be in a position to pick a guild, and build your character concept around the skills. It's not that you shouldn't do it at all - I think a lot of us do. I know I do. I almost always pick the guild I want to play, and then create a character concept. But I was only able to do that AFTER I did it in reverse - pick the role, then apply the skillset. Learn how the two work together - then try a different role and different skillset next time. And just do that for a few RL months until you really get the hang of the mechanics.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 14, 2013, 04:17:49 PM
However, I do not want to pick a race, a guild and a sub-guild to totally find I gimped my character in the short or long term. I never expect to be the best of the best, it clearly wont happen, but I also do not want to have skills that overlap if they do not need to be or get skills I simply wont need for the character I am playing. I am also assuming there are more skills than listed or basic skills all races or certain races start with that makes other skills gained by joining a guild or sub-guild useless.
It's pretty easy to avoid overlaps - just don't pick a subguild and a class whose helpfiles say they do exactly the same thing. Warrior/guard, pickpocket/thief, and ranger/hunter, for example, are obvious overlap cases. Beyond that, there isn't a lot of 'gimping' (uncool word choice, by the way) to worry about. I would only advise three things that aren't made explicit in the helpfiles:
- Easy-to-kill wildlife will generally flee from you while wildlife which does not flee from you will generally kick your ass if you're a new character (warriors included) - so if you intend for your character to hunt alone, you will probably need to have either archery, throw, or sneak from your guild/subguild. Warriors don't start out of the box with any of these.
- Thievery is more difficult if your character doesn't have sneak/hide, so if you are slapping the thief or cutpurse subguild on a non-thief guild in order to do a little stealing on the side, be aware of that.
- The average character does not have the ability to ride a mount without a free hand. If you intend to play a combatant who roams around outdoors on a mount while going sword-and-board, or while using a weapon in two hands, you may want to select a guild, race, or subguild whose helpfile mentions aptitude at riding.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 14, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
New Player, I love that you responded to my post in Klingon. I like you. I think you're gonna do well here. :)
It seems like you have lots of detailed questions, which is awesome. Let me echo Barzalene and definitely suggest you check out the Helper chat. Beyond that, some general advice: very few players, even veteran ones, survive long enough on a character to reach the coded maximums of skills for our guilds or subguilds. So I wouldn't fear the choice of guild/subguild much, or the skills you start using once you start, because in all likelihood, whether you pick Subguild Bard or Subguild Linguist won't make much difference to save you from a templar or a scrab.
Again, pick what sounds fun and give it a try! The most important thing is to pick a concept you'd like to roleplay.
Thanks, I was actually studying Klingon for a little bit until I found it unpractical, fun, but totally useless in the real world. (Same with Egyptian Hieroglyphics, although at least that has real world history...) I have been studying Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, Spanish and a brief stint of Russian. And I plan on learning Korean and probably something else along the way if I can stay focused... maybe Russian again... or even Klingon just for something fun. (One of the reasons I was interested in the Linguist or Bard sub-guilds, but then I was told I can learn the languages with out those sub-guilds, they just take a very long time.)
I did try the Helper Chat actually and although I found it very convenient, not really helpful in terms of what I was really looking for. But then again, I might of been asking impossible questions...
Yea... about that very few players surviving long enough to worry about maxing out their stats... I actually had not realized there was a permanent death for the game... I some how over looked that intro part and went straight to character creation. Only found out when I was researching more and came across it by accident. Will probably save me from throwing my lap top across the room...
However, that brings me to my next question. Do I have to come up completely with a new character and back ground every time I die and have to wait to become oked to play, or can I just jump right back in? Can I reuse my old back ground story as long as I remember to play it as a new character?
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 01:41:48 AM
However, that brings me to my next question. Do I have to come up completely with a new character and back ground every time I die and have to wait to become oked to play, or can I just jump right back in? Can I reuse my old back ground story as long as I remember to play it as a new character?
You make a new character, complete with a new backstory, each time you die. This does require waiting for approval for each character, yes.
Hey, look at it as motivation to learn to not die as quickly as possible. (=
Quote from: Lizzie on October 14, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
Quote from: Jherlen on October 14, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
Again, pick what sounds fun and give it a try! The most important thing is to pick a concept you'd like to roleplay.
I think this can't be emphasized enough. Pick a concept you'd like to roleplay, -instead- of picking a skillset you'd like to max. Use the available skillsets to support your concept, instead of making up a background to support a skillset.
So - if your concept involves a real outdoorsy type, try a ranger. If you want your outdoorsy type to have some kind of income-producing hobby on the side, add a crafting subguild. Use common sense for this - if your outdoorsy ranger is going to spend most of his time away from major trade routes, you might want to avoid clothworking as an option, because you can't forage for silk in the dunes; you have to buy it. On the other hand, if you plan for your outdoorsy type to be a stolid city-dweller who just really loves going out for fresh air and hunting, you might do great with clothworking as your subguild. Or...you might prefer to pick Merchant as the main guild - and hunter or scavenger for a subguild, which would give you the *very basic* survival skills you'd need outside the safety of city walls.
Once you get the hang of roleplay in Armageddon, AND you've experienced personally how the skills "work" - only then will you really be in a position to pick a guild, and build your character concept around the skills. It's not that you shouldn't do it at all - I think a lot of us do. I know I do. I almost always pick the guild I want to play, and then create a character concept. But I was only able to do that AFTER I did it in reverse - pick the role, then apply the skillset. Learn how the two work together - then try a different role and different skillset next time. And just do that for a few RL months until you really get the hang of the mechanics.
A few RL months just to get the hang of the mechanics is a bit of a long time for me. However, I had from the start narrowed it down to a Half-Elf Ranger. It was just I was worried about my sub-guild over lapping. Scavenger, Rebel, Guard, Physician among a couple others all have what Rangers have to begin with, but with a little added extra incentive or better multiplying for said needed skills. I do not do crafting generally, but I can see me role playing a black smith if I want to settle down some where in the future... Regardless, I just was not sure if only Scavengers can really climb a rope or go into a cave, how well a Rebels could fix their armour or even if spears and especially knives were useful in the game to be made in the first place. (Same with Mercenary...) Rangers already have basic healing, so I was not sure how convenient or purposefully stacking a Physician would be and as far as Bards were concerned, I did not know if they worked the same as they do in other games, help supporting their group with magic songs, but I was told that music is all RPing based so that is a no no unless their language skill is even better than a Linguist, but I should doubt that.
Quote from: jstorrie on October 14, 2013, 10:51:20 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 14, 2013, 04:17:49 PM
However, I do not want to pick a race, a guild and a sub-guild to totally find I gimped my character in the short or long term. I never expect to be the best of the best, it clearly wont happen, but I also do not want to have skills that overlap if they do not need to be or get skills I simply wont need for the character I am playing. I am also assuming there are more skills than listed or basic skills all races or certain races start with that makes other skills gained by joining a guild or sub-guild useless.
It's pretty easy to avoid overlaps - just don't pick a subguild and a class whose helpfiles say they do exactly the same thing. Warrior/guard, pickpocket/thief, and ranger/hunter, for example, are obvious overlap cases. Beyond that, there isn't a lot of 'gimping' (uncool word choice, by the way) to worry about. I would only advise three things that aren't made explicit in the helpfiles:
- Easy-to-kill wildlife will generally flee from you while wildlife which does not flee from you will generally kick your ass if you're a new character (warriors included) - so if you intend for your character to hunt alone, you will probably need to have either archery, throw, or sneak from your guild/subguild. Warriors don't start out of the box with any of these.
- Thievery is more difficult if your character doesn't have sneak/hide, so if you are slapping the thief or cutpurse subguild on a non-thief guild in order to do a little stealing on the side, be aware of that.
- The average character does not have the ability to ride a mount without a free hand. If you intend to play a combatant who roams around outdoors on a mount while going sword-and-board, or while using a weapon in two hands, you may want to select a guild, race, or subguild whose helpfile mentions aptitude at riding.
Yes, thank you for the suggestions. I already had my race and guild in mind, just a few sub-guilds giving me second thoughts. However, what is wrong with "gimping", I thought that was the word used for these situations... Should I use "derping" instead? :D
"Gimping" sort of implies that certain guild/subguild combos are unquestionably better than others, which may or may not be true, but certainly wouldn't be realized either way except on a very very long lived PC (we're talking at least 50 days played if not more.) It's kind of the wrong mindset to approach character creation with. Skills you gain from your subguild will not, typically, be able to rise as high as skills you gain from your main guild. They mostly add some flavor to your character and give you something to be okay at when you're brand new and most of your skills are novice level.
We really should call out permadeath in the getting started guide or make it more prominent in the website somewhere! It is definitely one of the defining features of the game. If you take risks, you will die often. If you take fewer risks, you may live a while. Some players have lived for a year or more on their first character without dying, though they tend to be city-based social/merchant types. As a ranger, well, I hope you will be so lucky, but the odds are not as much in your favor. :)
One last bit of advice: half-elves are socially shunned, restricted from employment in many clans, and tend to be picked on more by just about everyone. You will probably find it harder to make friends and get people to help you in game. Play one at your own risk. :)
Half-elves are just picked on because roundears are jealous of their good looks and endowments. They also start with some ability in the most beautiful language in the known. You can't blame them for being jealous. They also ride better than most others, just ask the ladies, or guys if you're into that, who've been there. :P
Yes, half elves can be difficult to play because of the half-elven mindset. I'd strongly recommend reading the docs and seriously consider the mood issues and the social stigma you'll face as a result of being one before apping one. That said, you can choose to make your breed look more like a human, or more like an elf, although the latter illusion will likely be destroyed the second you hop on a mount, and the former only after many strange, authentically half-elven actions.
There's a lot of disagreement as to how the docs are interpreted... I tend to interpret them rather liberally, but I'm literally terrible at this game so don't take any of my advice.
Maybe roll a pair of real dice to determine a random guild/subguild combo? Occasionally, if I'm not particularly focused on being something that would need a skillset, I just pick whatever. Its fun to learn that something you were never interested in trying is now your second favorite thing, which has happened to me like four times, with regards to guilds and subguilds.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on October 14, 2013, 06:29:28 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 14, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Narf on October 14, 2013, 05:14:03 PM
I actually agree that knowing the starting skills for main guilds would be a really good idea. Leave the discovery to 'what will I branch to' and not 'what skills appear on my sheet after my character is approved'.
I absolutely think players should know what skills will be on their begining skills lists, because they might have actually written references to these skills in their background or they might have a plan for a character and find out after character generation that they don't even have the basic skillset to do what they intended.
That said, I'm not advocating for the list format over the paragraph format, and the subguild descriptions I think are fine. What I think would be best for new players is for the main guilds to follow the subguild's example.
Exactly! However, even some sub-guilds only have two sentence long descriptions. I would assume there is a lot more to these guilds than that.
Save for branching skills, the main guilds are the same way. If you find a skill where this is not true then staff can fix it if you send in a request or typo/bug/idea it.
Mmm, this is not quite true.
The helpfile springing to my mind at present is "help merchant", which mentions a handful of merchant skills, and is exceedingly vague about the crafting ones. This would be useful, for as it happens the initial crafting skills are not well supported in all starting locations, and I can think of at least one starting location where every initial crafting skill is to all intents and purposes wholly unsupported. To add insult to injury, the helpfile goes on to suggest "Merchant is one of the three guilds that are _highly recommended_ for new players to choose," which rather contradicts help FAQ 3, which states "Merchants are quite possibly the hardest guild to play, even more so than defilers. The life of a merchant is extremely hard unless he/she knows the land very well, and he/she must have a good working knowledge of the trading possibilities in the world early on or he/she will starve." The truth probably lies somewhere inbetween, and is very dependent on location and clanned/unclanned status.
This is a not uncommon problem, I think - there are a number of very basic helpfiles relevant to the new player which haven't been given any serious attention in many years and can be quite misleading. To make a brief run through some easily spotted offenders:
Quote from: guild warriorMaster warriors are sometimes unwillingly and automatically nominated as leaders of small armies, or as captains of tribes and outposts.
Leadership in the game is largely orthogonal to combat ability, a correlation existing only in as much as that old characters tend to have accumulated both political connections and combat skills.
It should also be noted, looking at the same helpfile, that while suggesting a warrior can be employed as a spy is fine, it's true in the sense that anyone can be a spy; they're not particularly suited to it, code-wise.
Quote from: guild burglarThe luckiest will find a permanent contract with a powerful organization as a bard, spy, thief, assassin, or all four.
Bard is the entry that seems somewhat out of context here, particularly given how bardic culture has been fleshed out with regard to the North.
Quote from: guild warriorWarriors are the easiest persons to employ.
Quote from: guild assassinAssassins are often the simplest people to employ...
Fight!
I've dug into the issues with the city elf roleplay helpfile sufficiently in the Catching Up: City Elves thread, so no need to revisit it here.
With the guilds in particular though the big issue is how the descriptions disconnect from how the game is mostly played. There are the in-game jobs - like aide, artisan, bard, beggar, grebber, guard, hunter, soldier, etc - and the guilds, and the mapping varies in obviousness. I have a strong suspicion that a very large proportion of players entering the game with shady guilds end up in not particularly shady roles. That's fine. The experienced player looking to make an aide might consider the advantages of a burglar - some combat skill, some information-gathering ability - against a merchant or even an assassin. The new player sees "burglar" and "assassin" and "pickpocket" and gets a strong push in the direction of criminal RP, which the helpfiles for these guilds do nothing to discourage. I strongly feel it should be discouraged - having a newbie pickpocket pop, fail to steal something, and get jammed into jail feels like a great way to dissuade a new player from further experimentation with the MUD. We do attempt to push them into warrior/ranger/merchant through the page on the character generation process, but even sticking to those three, merchant is arguably worse described than the criminal guilds and comes with some serious challenges that can make it a very bad choice for an off-peak newbie in particular.
I do think we could do better. I don't think exhaustive skill lists are necessarily the answer, but there is a fair quantity of "veteran" knowledge which is essentially workarounds for the way the code is and the way the game world is implemented, knowledge that cannot be defended by "preserving the joy of discovery" or "keeping IC secrets secret". Having to get to the point that you have that knowledge and are relatively insulated from making painfully bad choices is a hurdle for new players, and I'm willing to bet a decent number get winnowed out by it. The more we can do to align the expectations with the new player with what they encounter when they enter the game, the better.
+1 to Quirk's post. Very good insights.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 01:55:27 AM
A few RL months just to get the hang of the mechanics is a bit of a long time for me. However, I had from the start narrowed it down to a Half-Elf Ranger. It was just I was worried about my sub-guild over lapping. Scavenger, Rebel, Guard, Physician among a couple others all have what Rangers have to begin with, but with a little added extra incentive or better multiplying for said needed skills. I do not do crafting generally, but I can see me role playing a black smith if I want to settle down some where in the future... Regardless, I just was not sure if only Scavengers can really climb a rope or go into a cave, how well a Rebels could fix their armour or even if spears and especially knives were useful in the game to be made in the first place. (Same with Mercenary...) Rangers already have basic healing, so I was not sure how convenient or purposefully stacking a Physician would be and as far as Bards were concerned, I did not know if they worked the same as they do in other games, help supporting their group with magic songs, but I was told that music is all RPing based so that is a no no unless their language skill is even better than a Linguist, but I should doubt that.
[/quote]
I would have to very strongly advise against playing a half-elf as a new player. Half-elves are not only a challenge because NO one likes them, but also because RP in and of itself is VERY challenging as a half-elf. If you still do decide to pick one please make absolutely certain of the following:
1) You read and re-read and even read five or more times the half-elf RP file.
2) You completely understand the fact that not a lot of people are going to help you and in fact most will be mean and rude to you. This is a simple fact of life on Zalanthas.
3) You will not find anyone that will hire you again a simple fact of life on Zalanthas.
4) The Known believes that you are some crazy fuck up regardless of how you came into the world. It is your fault.
Good Luck and I look forward to some new boots!
Quote from: Fujikoma on October 15, 2013, 07:11:49 AM
Half-elves are just picked on because roundears are jealous of their good looks and endowments. They also start with some ability in the most beautiful language in the known. You can't blame them for being jealous. They also ride better than most others, just ask the ladies, or guys if you're into that, who've been there. :P
Yes, half elves can be difficult to play because of the half-elven mindset. I'd strongly recommend reading the docs and seriously consider the mood issues and the social stigma you'll face as a result of being one before apping one. That said, you can choose to make your breed look more like a human, or more like an elf, although the latter illusion will likely be destroyed the second you hop on a mount, and the former only after many strange, authentically half-elven actions.
There's a lot of disagreement as to how the docs are interpreted... I tend to interpret them rather liberally, but I'm literally terrible at this game so don't take any of my advice.
You see I was thinking the same thing, so for my short description I submitted "The well endowed, third legged half-breed..." I just hope it gets approved... ;D
I already have my character, seeming at first glance, indistinguishable from a rather tall male human or a medium Half-Elf... or at least that was what was in my mind, I am not used to inches and especially not to stones... I also made it not aware of being able to see pointed ears, etc. in the long description, however I am not sure if the game will auto tag me as a HE from the start, thus all my efforts to secrecy for RP purposes is wasted. Good idea about the mount riding though... I remember reading Pure Bloods do not, I did not really think about haphazardly riding a mount and making it obvious... I should probably hide the beast of burden somewhere when visiting a town... Hmmm...
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on October 14, 2013, 06:29:28 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 14, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Narf on October 14, 2013, 05:14:03 PM
I actually agree that knowing the starting skills for main guilds would be a really good idea. Leave the discovery to 'what will I branch to' and not 'what skills appear on my sheet after my character is approved'.
I absolutely think players should know what skills will be on their begining skills lists, because they might have actually written references to these skills in their background or they might have a plan for a character and find out after character generation that they don't even have the basic skillset to do what they intended.
That said, I'm not advocating for the list format over the paragraph format, and the subguild descriptions I think are fine. What I think would be best for new players is for the main guilds to follow the subguild's example.
Exactly! However, even some sub-guilds only have two sentence long descriptions. I would assume there is a lot more to these guilds than that.
Save for branching skills, the main guilds are the same way. If you find a skill where this is not true then staff can fix it if you send in a request or typo/bug/idea it.
About a year ago I wanted to play someone that hit people with sticks. It had been a long time since I had played some of the guilds and I couldn't remember who got the 'hit people with sticks' skill so I went through the helpfiles to try to figure it out. I was not able to discern this from reading the helpfiles.
... Actually, I'll be honest. Almost all of my characters like to hit people with sticks. It's a thing for me.
But my main point is that no, the skills mentioned in the helpfiles for main guilds are nowhere near as complete as they are for subguilds. Honestly if you were worried about giving out too much information I'd remove the info on what each guild branches to, but make the starting skills mentioned complete.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: Fujikoma on October 15, 2013, 07:11:49 AM
Half-elves are just picked on because roundears are jealous of their good looks and endowments. They also start with some ability in the most beautiful language in the known. You can't blame them for being jealous. They also ride better than most others, just ask the ladies, or guys if you're into that, who've been there. :P
Yes, half elves can be difficult to play because of the half-elven mindset. I'd strongly recommend reading the docs and seriously consider the mood issues and the social stigma you'll face as a result of being one before apping one. That said, you can choose to make your breed look more like a human, or more like an elf, although the latter illusion will likely be destroyed the second you hop on a mount, and the former only after many strange, authentically half-elven actions.
There's a lot of disagreement as to how the docs are interpreted... I tend to interpret them rather liberally, but I'm literally terrible at this game so don't take any of my advice.
You see I was thinking the same thing, so for my short description I submitted "The well endowed, third legged half-breed..." I just hope it gets approved... ;D
I already have my character, seeming at first glance, indistinguishable from a rather tall male human or a medium Half-Elf... or at least that was what was in my mind, I am not used to inches and especially not to stones... I also made it not aware of being able to see pointed ears, etc. in the long description, however I am not sure if the game will auto tag me as a HE from the start, thus all my efforts to secrecy for RP purposes is wasted. Good idea about the mount riding though... I remember reading Pure Bloods do not, I did not really think about haphazardly riding a mount and making it obvious... I should probably hide the beast of burden somewhere when visiting a town... Hmmm...
You get the option on how the game tags you if you're a half elf. You should have had it come up during character creation, do you recall that?
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 03:10:20 AM
"Gimping" sort of implies that certain guild/subguild combos are unquestionably better than others, which may or may not be true, but certainly wouldn't be realized either way except on a very very long lived PC (we're talking at least 50 days played if not more.) It's kind of the wrong mindset to approach character creation with. Skills you gain from your subguild will not, typically, be able to rise as high as skills you gain from your main guild. They mostly add some flavor to your character and give you something to be okay at when you're brand new and most of your skills are novice level.
We really should call out permadeath in the getting started guide or make it more prominent in the website somewhere! It is definitely one of the defining features of the game. If you take risks, you will die often. If you take fewer risks, you may live a while. Some players have lived for a year or more on their first character without dying, though they tend to be city-based social/merchant types. As a ranger, well, I hope you will be so lucky, but the odds are not as much in your favor. :)
One last bit of advice: half-elves are socially shunned, restricted from employment in many clans, and tend to be picked on more by just about everyone. You will probably find it harder to make friends and get people to help you in game. Play one at your own risk. :)
Sadly I get attached to things, like characters in games, so I am not sure how well I will like this game when it is all said and done. Dieing and losing Exp I am not too worried about, even if I was stripped completely naked and half my EXP pool siphoned away... But to lose the character with the name, background and all the ideas that come with it... I mean if I could have multiple characters I would keep my one favorite as safe as possible and enjoy the RPing aspect, while the others are in it just for the fun of the game and or discovery. But I can not see my self rerolling my character again and again after each death and pretending I am new to the game and don't know any one or any thing. It seems like the chances of death are instantaneous the moment you come into the world for the most part. I can't see my self coming up with fresh and entertaining back grounds every single time I start again. :-\
Quote from: Narf on October 15, 2013, 01:33:42 PM
You get the option on how the game tags you if you're a half elf. You should have had it come up during character creation, do you recall that?
Well I chose Half-Elf, because that is what he is. If you saw his ears with out his hair covering it, you could tell or perhaps if you saw his eyes, etc. But the descriptions I proposed only hint at it...
Also speaking of descriptions it tells me, as I recall, that you should use at least four lines worth (2000 max letters/spaces) of a description... Well it keeps cutting off at six lines or so, in stead of the eight or so I am assuming it would be. It said it was auto trimming or something... Then when I had the option of changing something before submitting, every time I tried to fix the background part, not only would it continually cut it short, but also stack the exact same thing on top of the other. I tried four different times and all it did was have four stacks of the same description. I finally quit and retried. I figured they would have refused my submition on the grounds of stacking the same background, unless they were kind enough to fix it for me.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: Narf on October 15, 2013, 01:33:42 PM
You get the option on how the game tags you if you're a half elf. You should have had it come up during character creation, do you recall that?
Well I chose Half-Elf, because that is what he is. If you saw his ears with out his hair covering it, you could tell or perhaps if you saw his eyes, etc. But the descriptions I proposed only hint at it...
Also speaking of descriptions it tells me, as I recall, that you should use at least four lines worth (2000 max letters/spaces) of a description... Well it keeps cutting off at six lines or so, in stead of the eight or so I am assuming it would be. It said it was auto trimming or something... Then when I had the option of changing something before submitting, every time I tried to fix the background part, not only would it continually cut it short, but also stack the exact same thing on top of the other. I tried four different times and all it did was have four stacks of the same description. I finally quit and retried. I figured they would have refused my submition on the grounds of stacking the same background, unless they were kind enough to fix it for me.
If you chose half-elf for your appearance, humans and half-elves will be able to tell what you really are if they look closely at you. Other races won't be able to discern this though, I think.
I have made over thirty PCs I think, lost count, but only a third or so had carefully thought out backgrounds. The backgrounds I find most interesting are those I built up in character, assuming the PC survived that long.
The question of skill sets can be gleaned from experience and help files. I think this is largely a "find out IG" question. IG refers to mechanics of the game that one gains by playing; "find out IC" for future reference refers to setting info you learn by RPing with others or interaction with NPCs.
A list of skills was formerly found by searching help files for skill_(blank). With the new website I think one can't do that. There are also skills that are intentionally hidden. All in all this is an RPI so skills and the like are a secondary feature.
Welcome to Arma. Enjoy the spice.
Chance of death isn't instantaneous, as long as you play smart. You'll definitely live longer if you can join a clan and try and learn the ropes from somene more experienced, so to speak.
As for making a new background, it really does get easier after a while. A basic background is simple to create, and you can customize it from there. LauraMars had a great post with more on tha recently. Maybe someone else can link it? I'm on my phone.
I know how you feel...I felt that way with my first lovely little half-elf. But many of us are not being facetious when we say Permadeath is our favourite part of Armageddon. It can be devastating to lose a young character whose story you've dreamed about for years. (For me that was a unmanifested magicker). But the story is what we are about, and tragedies make good stories.
It's very true that the story of our PC is the story of how they die, though some do take years to find their end.
There are a lot of different societies in the Known. My new characters are normally as far away as I can get from my old ones, and most never interact with the previous site. Some of my characters are roles I have in my head, some are just a reaction to the death of the old one and an "I don't care what happens to you", some are to explore a guild or race I've avoided in the past.
I suggest you dip your toes in with a character, and have a look around the world to see if other aspects suit you.
Good luck anyway.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 03:10:20 AM
"Gimping" sort of implies that certain guild/subguild combos are unquestionably better than others, which may or may not be true, but certainly wouldn't be realized either way except on a very very long lived PC (we're talking at least 50 days played if not more.) It's kind of the wrong mindset to approach character creation with. Skills you gain from your subguild will not, typically, be able to rise as high as skills you gain from your main guild. They mostly add some flavor to your character and give you something to be okay at when you're brand new and most of your skills are novice level.
We really should call out permadeath in the getting started guide or make it more prominent in the website somewhere! It is definitely one of the defining features of the game. If you take risks, you will die often. If you take fewer risks, you may live a while. Some players have lived for a year or more on their first character without dying, though they tend to be city-based social/merchant types. As a ranger, well, I hope you will be so lucky, but the odds are not as much in your favor. :)
One last bit of advice: half-elves are socially shunned, restricted from employment in many clans, and tend to be picked on more by just about everyone. You will probably find it harder to make friends and get people to help you in game. Play one at your own risk. :)
Sadly I get attached to things, like characters in games, so I am not sure how well I will like this game when it is all said and done. Dieing and losing Exp I am not too worried about, even if I was stripped completely naked and half my EXP pool siphoned away... But to lose the character with the name, background and all the ideas that come with it... I mean if I could have multiple characters I would keep my one favorite as safe as possible and enjoy the RPing aspect, while the others are in it just for the fun of the game and or discovery. But I can not see my self rerolling my character again and again after each death and pretending I am new to the game and don't know any one or any thing. It seems like the chances of death are instantaneous the moment you come into the world for the most part. I can't see my self coming up with fresh and entertaining back grounds every single time I start again. :-\
You didn't type six lines. You typed in one line that was six lines long. The line breaks aren't automatic. You have to manually insert them by hitting the enter key. What I'd recommend, is type out what you want in notepad, and size your notepad to accommodate the appropriate length -per line-. Then, copy and paste each line, one at a time, to the chargen buffer, separating each one with the enter key.
Alternately, you could paste one sentence at a time, adding <enter> *after the space after the period* at the end of each sentence. Always do period, space, and THEN enter. When you're all finished, type .f (that's period f, no space). That'll format the whole thing so it all falls into a single paragraph with no weird spacing.
I'll echo a strong recommendation not to start with a half-elf. There is a steep learning curve with this game. The code is a complex beast, figuring out how to interact with the game world in a way that promotes your continued survival is a challenge, and getting to grips with the customs of the various places takes work. People attempt to remain in character at all times; at its best, this game is like being stuck in an enthralling book, the story unfolding page by page as you write your character into it. This is mostly a good thing, even a great thing, but one consequence that arises from it is that starting from a position where other characters have reason to despise you and ignore you is extremely hard. The players might wish to aid you, particularly if it's obvious that your problems stem from lack of knowledge as a player, but they can only bend their characters so far. As a half-elf, you will likely learn a lot less than you would as a human, because you will have fewer allies with opportunity to teach you.
Permadeath however is less scary than you might think. I know where you're coming from. A long time ago, coming to my first permadeath Role Play Intensive MUD, I joined out of curiosity as much as anything else: the whispered word among those who told me of it was that it was crazy, that your character could just die and then... that was it. Once you learn to appreciate what permadeath does for a game though, you won't want to go back. Where politics in other games can descend into banal schoolyard drama, no-one able to do more than inconvenience their foes, long-term rivals locked in interminable conflict until someone gets bored and gives up, in Armageddon changes in power can be swift and sudden and brutal. Someone who was feared as a tyrant and seemed invincible can perish in a moment, cut down with a dagger in their back. Plots - secrets - take on serious meaning. There is a thrill in talking to someone who, if they knew what you really were, would have you killed. You will not find this kind of immersion in many other places. And, when you die, you will have ideas for new characters crowding in, from things you've seen, things you've learned about, other characters you've met who've inspired you to think along new lines.
Few characters live to a ripe old age. If yours does, in some ways it matters little what guild you chose - if you chose to practice your guild's skills, you will be awesome at something. However, everyone starts out as comparatively inept. Subguilds give you a boosted start with a few skills, but the long-term maximum that can be achieved with a subguild skill is limited, unless it is also one of your main skills.
Speak with the helpers. It's what they're there for. And good luck.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 01:48:25 PMAs for making a new background, it really does get easier after a while. A basic background is simple to create, and you can customize it from there. LauraMars had a great post with more on tha recently. Maybe someone else can link it? I'm on my phone.
Here you go.
Quote from: LauraMars on October 04, 2013, 01:56:08 PM
What Malken said.
To this day, most of my characters have fairly brief, basic backgrounds that are fleshed out once I actually begin playing and developing my character's story. In the case of a new player, I almost always recommend reading the introductory documentation for awhile, especially paying attention to the tutorials that deal with commands, emoting, and syntax. Learning the mechanics of how to play can be some of the most confusing stuff about Armageddon at first. I then recommend the player play Armageddon MADLIBS and say something like:
"<Character Name> comes from a small village outside of <major city>. He doesn't know much about the world but he has grown <emotion> with <commoner occupation> and wants to find adventure in the great wide somewhere, even though the great wide somewhere is filled with <regional danger>. His mother is <occupation> and his father is <occupation>. He has decided to strike out for <major city> to find his destiny. His parents are very <emotion> for him!"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a more fleshed out character from the beginning - but it may be a LOT easier on you if you simply dive right in with your first few characters, because the amount of information thrown your way is a lot to assimilate, even when you're not trying to remember that your character has multiple personality disorder, is kind to animals and beggars, hates cheese, likes to wear blue linen clothing, and enjoys the taste of human flesh.
All that said, I think your background is pretty good and basic - it's open ended and it will allow for plenty of growing space! Just don't be too upset when your character dies because that happens a lot in this game. And no, you can't remake your character, but if you enjoy playing certain types of characters (the stoic soldier, the free-spirited hunter, the mischief maker) you can revisit those themes, as long as you're aware that each character you make is a completely different person.
Also, please do check out the helper chat. It is a great resource for new players, and most of us are extremely glad to walk a new player through the more complicated situations you might find yourself in as you begin playing!
There are a few employers who will hire half-elves... You'll still face significant discrimination. If you look like a human, but act like a breed, people will begin to suspect something, but this is easily explainable. I think there are ways to tell (edited).. Or so I've experienced. Most players I've run across IG are creative, thoughtful roleplayers, even if they do take your boots.
Also, sometimes losing a character can be liberating, even if you have strong feelings for that character, in that you are now free to explore a new concept, backed with the code experience from the previous one. It still feels like someone kicked your dog to death, but soon the new character you create will be interacting with the world in new and undreamt of ways. It can be daunting, but each one gets a little easier to make. Just, don't throw away your old character for a new concept to play with, you may find yourself kicking yourself.
Just one thing, though, it can be awkward when your new character stumbles in on your old character's friends who are mourning the loss, I mean, it's hard to know what to say, and "Well, better luck next time" might get your new character's teeth kicked in, you have to start from the position that this is someone your new character never interacted with, hasn't heard about, etc...
Back to half elves... What the other players are advising you is likely the best course... But challenges are fun to work around. My first character was human and lasted three rl hours, fell down a well, was helped by something that didn't speak sirihish to get back out, wandered around a little while and finally got stabbed to death. Hint: don't start in the rinth.
My second character was a breed and I really haven't looked back at human since. I find it a lot of fun. Others might not be such a glutton for punishment. Elves can be fun, but very difficult to get into the proper mindset, and the whole no riding anything ever kind of puts a damper on your opportunities, unless you're a d-elf, which takes trust from staff that you will play it properly.
I've not tried dwarf. I don't think I could pull that off, that, to me, looks the most challenging to play properly (I could play it, but it would not fit well, need more experience before I try). Dwarves get good stats, and an excuse to do pretty much anything, but at the same time you have to pick ONE THING and do that thing until it's done, then find ONE MORE THING, repeat until you die. It's something I can't bend my mind around yet.
Quote from: Fujikoma on October 15, 2013, 02:22:10 PM
There are a few employers who will hire half-elves... You'll still face significant discrimination. If you look like a human, but act like a breed, people will begin to suspect something, but this is easily explainable. I think there are ways to tell with searching for tracks, but this is code and thankfully a lot of people will ignore it for the sake of allowing you to develop your story... Or so I've experienced. Most players I've run across IG are creative, thoughtful roleplayers, even if they do take your boots.
Also, sometimes losing a character can be liberating, even if you have strong feelings for that character, in that you are now free to explore a new concept, backed with the code experience from the previous one. It still feels like someone kicked your dog to death, but soon the new character you create will be interacting with the world in new and undreamt of ways. It can be daunting, but each one gets a little easier to make. Just, don't throw away your old character for a new concept to play with, you may find yourself kicking yourself.
Just one thing, though, it can be awkward when your new character stumbles in on your old character's friends who are mourning the loss, I mean, it's hard to know what to say, and "Well, better luck next time" might get your new character's teeth kicked in, you have to start from the position that this is someone your new character never interacted with, hasn't heard about, etc...
Back to half elves... What the other players are advising you is likely the best course... But challenges are fun to work around. My first character was human and lasted three rl hours, fell down a well, was helped by something that didn't speak sirihish to get back out, wandered around a little while and finally got stabbed to death. Hint: don't start in the rinth.
My second character was a breed and I really haven't looked back at human since. I find it a lot of fun. Others might not be such a glutton for punishment. Elves can be fun, but very difficult to get into the proper mindset, and the whole no riding anything ever kind of puts a damper on your opportunities, unless you're a d-elf, which takes trust from staff that you will play it properly.
I've not tried dwarf. I don't think I could pull that off, that, to me, looks the most challenging to play properly (I could play it, but it would not fit well, need more experience before I try). Dwarves get good stats, and an excuse to do pretty much anything, but at the same time you have to pick ONE THING and do that thing until it's done, then find ONE MORE THING, repeat until you die. It's something I can't bend my mind around yet.
FYI the tracking has never been confirmed nor denied by staff. Please remember to keep IG information off GDB. Tracking is just a rumor no verifiable docs that I've found. If anyone says anything IG you can always do what others have in the past. "Everyone's tracks are different. No two tracks look alike. My feeling on this is that the hunt skill needs a huge overhaul.
My mistake. Didn't realize that was a big, unconfirmed secret. I have edited my post.
That said, I've found mantis tracks in some fairly odd places.
EDIT: Must have been the mantis head, waiting for the right moment to strike.
Quote from: Harmless on October 15, 2013, 01:47:14 PM
Welcome to Arma. Enjoy the spice.
Thanks and that last bit reminded me of Dune... Actually the whole setting of the game reminds me of Dune, or at least on that one desert spice planet, minus no space ships... or are there... *Looks about curiously...*
Quote from: Pale Horse on October 14, 2013, 05:16:44 PM
Chiming in to say that I am glad you enjoy the game enough (or at least it's concept) to offer up suggestions on ways that might make it better or smoother. It may sound like you get some rough critiques from the GDB base upon occasion, but it is because we all love this game deeply.
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. :) I had not forgotten, I just did not want to spam the forum worse than I have so far with back to back posts replying to each or most of the posts. I am pretty excited to join the game, my first character concept got rejected, so I tried to change a few words here and there and tried again. I will see how it fairs for me. :-\
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 01:48:25 PM
Chance of death isn't instantaneous, as long as you play smart. You'll definitely live longer if you can join a clan and try and learn the ropes from somene more experienced, so to speak.
As for making a new background, it really does get easier after a while. A basic background is simple to create, and you can customize it from there. LauraMars had a great post with more on tha recently. Maybe someone else can link it? I'm on my phone.
I would assume there are some pretty nasty ICs running around whacking people over the head with sticks and the like... *Looks for Narf over his shoulder and puts on a helmet...* ;)
But I have seen games ruined or become unplayable, because of the none discretion of killing anyone not yourself or your clan. Not so much as from a role playing perspective, "He is a half breed, lets go kill him...", but more, "Hey, lets troll and ruin this person's day, I have nothing better to do and I think it will be fun!" and they some times will continually search for and kill the same person over and over again or even wait for them out side of safe zones. (I am sure there will be other people who will step up and help that person being maliciously attacked, presuming he or she did not do anything to deserve such treatment, but that is besides the point.) Now I am not saying that is how it is here, I have not even stepped foot into the game world yet, but I know of other PvP games that were that way, although that last bit might have been just some really bad cases.
I have heard of 'easy marks' in and around town mentioned in the forums, assuming that means they were dressing rather nicely and throwing their money around being boisterous, but does that also mean death to the character as well?
Quote from: solera on October 15, 2013, 02:01:21 PM
I know how you feel...I felt that way with my first lovely little half-elf. But many of us are not being facetious when we say Permadeath is our favourite part of Armageddon. It can be devastating to lose a young character whose story you've dreamed about for years. (For me that was a unmanifested magicker). But the story is what we are about, and tragedies make good stories.
It's very true that the story of our PC is the story of how they die, though some do take years to find their end.
There are a lot of different societies in the Known. My new characters are normally as far away as I can get from my old ones, and most never interact with the previous site. Some of my characters are roles I have in my head, some are just a reaction to the death of the old one and an "I don't care what happens to you", some are to explore a guild or race I've avoided in the past.
I suggest you dip your toes in with a character, and have a look around the world to see if other aspects suit you.
Good luck anyway.
Thank you. :)
Quote from: Lizzie on October 15, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
You didn't type six lines. You typed in one line that was six lines long. The line breaks aren't automatic. You have to manually insert them by hitting the enter key. What I'd recommend, is type out what you want in notepad, and size your notepad to accommodate the appropriate length -per line-. Then, copy and paste each line, one at a time, to the chargen buffer, separating each one with the enter key.
Alternately, you could paste one sentence at a time, adding <enter> *after the space after the period* at the end of each sentence. Always do period, space, and THEN enter. When you're all finished, type .f (that's period f, no space). That'll format the whole thing so it all falls into a single paragraph with no weird spacing.
I see... thank you. I will have to remember that if my submission gets denied again... do they usually tell you why they refused it however?
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 07:07:06 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 15, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
You didn't type six lines. You typed in one line that was six lines long. The line breaks aren't automatic. You have to manually insert them by hitting the enter key. What I'd recommend, is type out what you want in notepad, and size your notepad to accommodate the appropriate length -per line-. Then, copy and paste each line, one at a time, to the chargen buffer, separating each one with the enter key.
Alternately, you could paste one sentence at a time, adding <enter> *after the space after the period* at the end of each sentence. Always do period, space, and THEN enter. When you're all finished, type .f (that's period f, no space). That'll format the whole thing so it all falls into a single paragraph with no weird spacing.
I see... thank you. I will have to remember that if my submission gets denied again... do they usually tell you why they refused it however?
From what I've seen in game, they do not always require proper formatting for character descriptions. However if your description got cut off in the middle because you typed too much in one line (there's a maximum) they really have no choice but to reject you.
By the by, I've gotten characters approved with formatting errors. You can just wish up to have them corrected usually.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 07:07:06 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 15, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
You didn't type six lines. You typed in one line that was six lines long. The line breaks aren't automatic. You have to manually insert them by hitting the enter key. What I'd recommend, is type out what you want in notepad, and size your notepad to accommodate the appropriate length -per line-. Then, copy and paste each line, one at a time, to the chargen buffer, separating each one with the enter key.
Alternately, you could paste one sentence at a time, adding <enter> *after the space after the period* at the end of each sentence. Always do period, space, and THEN enter. When you're all finished, type .f (that's period f, no space). That'll format the whole thing so it all falls into a single paragraph with no weird spacing.
I see... thank you. I will have to remember that if my submission gets denied again... do they usually tell you why they refused it however?
Staff will usually send comments with a rejection notice, yeah.
Re: dying, there aren't rampant bands of killers running lose in all areas of the game. Cities, for the most part, are safe enough, because soldiers patrol the streets and will arrest criminals. In the deserts and certain seedier sections of town, though, you'll find no such luxury.
Quote from: Narf on October 15, 2013, 07:19:02 PM
From what I've seen in game, they do not always require proper formatting for character descriptions. However if your description got cut off in the middle because you typed too much in one line (there's a maximum) they really have no choice but to reject you.
By the by, I've gotten characters approved with formatting errors. You can just wish up to have them corrected usually.
I got approved on my second try, but found every part of my descriptions; long, short and background changed completely... I now look to be about the same (Or exact...) as the guy in the communication room in the newbie town. :-\
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 07:38:27 PM
Staff will usually send comments with a rejection notice, yeah.
Re: dying, there aren't rampant bands of killers running lose in all areas of the game. Cities, for the most part, are safe enough, because soldiers patrol the streets and will arrest criminals. In the deserts and certain seedier sections of town, though, you'll find no such luxury.
Where do they send the comments to; email or when you actually try to connect to the game? I did not notice anything in game and I have not bothered to check my email yet. And thank you for the insight. I got approved my second attmept, although they changed my descriptions to I guess a defualt one and I started in the Farming Town, Red Village or something or other...
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 07:38:27 PM
Staff will usually send comments with a rejection notice, yeah.
Re: dying, there aren't rampant bands of killers running lose in all areas of the game. Cities, for the most part, are safe enough, because soldiers patrol the streets and will arrest criminals. In the deserts and certain seedier sections of town, though, you'll find no such luxury.
Where do they send the comments to; email or when you actually try to connect to the game? I did not notice anything in game and I have not bothered to check my email yet. And thank you for the insight. I got approved my second attmept, although they changed my descriptions to I guess a defualt one and I started in the Farming Town, Red Village or something or other...
They send comments to the email address on your account. Usually they won't talk to you directly in game. Sometimes staff members do rewrite backgrounds / descs for newbies in order to help you get into the game and not be stuck in character generation for too long. I'd check your email, I bet they left comments.
Did you get to 'point' at what town you wanted to start in when you got into the game? You should have started in a newbie zone and picked your starting location from there. Shoulda picked Allanak or Tuluk, RS is... a bit more hard mode. :P
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 07:38:27 PM
Staff will usually send comments with a rejection notice, yeah.
Re: dying, there aren't rampant bands of killers running lose in all areas of the game. Cities, for the most part, are safe enough, because soldiers patrol the streets and will arrest criminals. In the deserts and certain seedier sections of town, though, you'll find no such luxury.
Where do they send the comments to; email or when you actually try to connect to the game? I did not notice anything in game and I have not bothered to check my email yet. And thank you for the insight. I got approved my second attmept, although they changed my descriptions to I guess a defualt one and I started in the Farming Town, Red Village or something or other...
Rewriting your description is something staff occasionally does for new players. I think it was the general consensus that going back and forth about what was allowable with someone that had never played before would be more discouraging than having their background and description edited. And yes, almost all communication with staff will be through your email account.
It's actually very nice of staff, it's hard to write a background that fits in with the game world, they were very kind when it came to my first few rewrites, the next few I wrote while plastered and they were even kind about telling me how those can be fixed, gently poking me in the direction of creating an acceptable character. They're actually very, very thoughtful and considerate when it comes down to it. Drunk, in love with everyone mood right now, so I have to refrain from trying to advise because it won't be very informative, and likely wrong.
Maybe one day I will be a good RPer... A goal to work toward while I deal with being a reckless, destructive jerk.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 15, 2013, 09:39:50 PM
They send comments to the email address on your account. Usually they won't talk to you directly in game. Sometimes staff members do rewrite backgrounds / descs for newbies in order to help you get into the game and not be stuck in character generation for too long. I'd check your email, I bet they left comments.
Did you get to 'point' at what town you wanted to start in when you got into the game? You should have started in a newbie zone and picked your starting location from there. Shoulda picked Allanak or Tuluk, RS is... a bit more hard mode. :P
I did initially go to the newbie area first and did as much of the tutorial as I could do as far as I am aware of. (Which was extremely short by the way...) I even went to the main website and read through each city that was offered, besides 'rinth that was obviously a bad choice, (And someone else mentioned it as well...) most others spoke of corrupt soldiers and Templars in most of the other cities. The only reasonable area in my mind was RS, since I actually do like farming and it said it did not put up with thieves and murderers. I just heard traveling to and fro was hard, but I figured I could hitch a ride. :D
Quote from: Narf on October 15, 2013, 10:17:15 PM
Rewriting your description is something staff occasionally does for new players. I think it was the general consensus that going back and forth about what was allowable with someone that had never played before would be more discouraging than having their background and description edited. And yes, almost all communication with staff will be through your email account.
Oh ok, I will have to check my email then. Yea, I was a little disheartened and even upset when I first saw it changed. I was like, what the hell!? I thought maybe they were playing a joke on me. But then I thought I can just go into this game and learn about it and if I screw up I can always try again latter, hopefully I can just reuse my name again.
Quote from: Quirk on October 15, 2013, 02:05:51 PM
I'll echo a strong recommendation not to start with a half-elf. There is a steep learning curve with this game. The code is a complex beast, figuring out how to interact with the game world in a way that promotes your continued survival is a challenge, and getting to grips with the customs of the various places takes work. People attempt to remain in character at all times; at its best, this game is like being stuck in an enthralling book, the story unfolding page by page as you write your character into it. This is mostly a good thing, even a great thing, but one consequence that arises from it is that starting from a position where other characters have reason to despise you and ignore you is extremely hard. The players might wish to aid you, particularly if it's obvious that your problems stem from lack of knowledge as a player, but they can only bend their characters so far. As a half-elf, you will likely learn a lot less than you would as a human, because you will have fewer allies with opportunity to teach you.
Permadeath however is less scary than you might think. I know where you're coming from. A long time ago, coming to my first permadeath Role Play Intensive MUD, I joined out of curiosity as much as anything else: the whispered word among those who told me of it was that it was crazy, that your character could just die and then... that was it. Once you learn to appreciate what permadeath does for a game though, you won't want to go back. Where politics in other games can descend into banal schoolyard drama, no-one able to do more than inconvenience their foes, long-term rivals locked in interminable conflict until someone gets bored and gives up, in Armageddon changes in power can be swift and sudden and brutal. Someone who was feared as a tyrant and seemed invincible can perish in a moment, cut down with a dagger in their back. Plots - secrets - take on serious meaning. There is a thrill in talking to someone who, if they knew what you really were, would have you killed. You will not find this kind of immersion in many other places. And, when you die, you will have ideas for new characters crowding in, from things you've seen, things you've learned about, other characters you've met who've inspired you to think along new lines.
Few characters live to a ripe old age. If yours does, in some ways it matters little what guild you chose - if you chose to practice your guild's skills, you will be awesome at something. However, everyone starts out as comparatively inept. Subguilds give you a boosted start with a few skills, but the long-term maximum that can be achieved with a subguild skill is limited, unless it is also one of your main skills.
Speak with the helpers. It's what they're there for. And good luck.
I probably should have picked Human, I am just use to them being so ordinary in every other game. I figured Half-Elf would give me more abilities in between the two, although I did hear about the racial tensions, I did not know how serious they actually were. But I like a challange and usually being on my own.
PS. Come to Quark's. Quark's is fun. Come right now. Don't walk, run!
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 11:25:51 PM
although I did hear about the racial tensions, I did not know how serious they actually were.
;D
I feel like we should quote this on the website somewhere.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 16, 2013, 01:46:45 AM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 15, 2013, 11:25:51 PM
although I did hear about the racial tensions, I did not know how serious they actually were.
;D
I feel like we should quote this on the website somewhere.
I do not think I like this game very much... I have wasted the last few hours just reading the long incredibly detailed and well written descriptions of weapons, armours and items! I can only imagine how the real game will be like... I'll probably die in the middle of the street, not by a murderer or mugger, but by a horse drawn carriage as I get run over checking out this or that... :D
In all seriousness though, I was trying really hard to be frugal and only buying the essentials, not being sure what lies beyond the arch way... and I bought a saw-toothed broadsword. The description of 'view' did not mention it was one or two handed and when wielded says it is in my primary hand. I can even wield a torch in the other so I assumed it was one/hand and a half sword and I could dual wield two. (A falchion (sp) actually says you can wield in one hand, but it was too heavy for me and some kind of pole also available explained that it was indeed for two hands...) So I bought a second one, since I want my character to be a dual wielding
nunchuck Abraham Lincoln sword Half-Elf. But it wont allow me to do so. I looked up 'es' as I recall and tried 'es sword', 'es broadsword' and 'es saw-toothed', but it refused to do it. (Thinking about it now... I am 90% sure it was before I began wielding my torch in my other hand and only started wielding it to see if it could be done, since the second sword would not.) I am a Ranger so I thought that was automatic and my attributes were Agility first so what is wrong? Are the swords I chosen simply two handed only and if so, why can I still wield a torch in one hand while still holding the sword in the other?
Also is there a way to compare items on a list to each other or to what you already have? View gives a description, but not how much more damage it can cause or how much damage it can with stand or how well it protects, although some items say it covers the back of the neck or the front of your nose etc.
And is there a way to put a string of items into a pack, while opening and closing it. I thought I played a MUD way back when that used a semi colon, but I could be mistaken and each game seems to be different some times... Like say I wanted to: 'open pack, put shirt pack, put pants pack, put torch pack, take hat pack, close pack'. Also how do you put all of something like cakes that are stacked into a pack? I had to keep doing it one at a time and 'all cakes pack' gave a weird message. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:31:13 AM
And is there a way to put a string of items into a pack, while opening and closing it. I thought I played a MUD way back when that used a semi colon, but I could be mistaken and each game seems to be different some times... Like say I wanted to: 'open pack, put shirt pack, put pants pack, put torch pack, take hat pack, close pack'. Also how do you put all of something like cakes that are stacked into a pack? I had to keep doing it one at a time and 'all cakes pack' gave a weird message. Thanks in advance.
It is like you thought:
'open pack;put shirt pack;put pants pack;...' etc.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:31:13 AMI looked up 'es' as I recall and tried 'es sword', 'es broadsword' and 'es saw-toothed', but it refused to do it.
What kind of message do you receive when you try to 'es' the weapon? Some heavier one-handed weapons can only be wielded in the primary hand ('ep'), not the offhand ('es'). If that is the case you may need to find a lighter weapon for your secondary hand. I don't recall the exact message given in this case, but it should be suitably informative.
There are some weapons out there that are not strictly two-handed, but have to be wielded in your primary hand.
How you managed to find two of them on your first go befuddles me-- they're not super common or often used as far as I know. >_>
Also, on weapon damages. The description and materials and overall craftsmanship will give you a pretty good idea on this, but be aware that "most expensive" doesn't necessarily mean "does most damage".
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:31:13 AM
And is there a way to put a string of items into a pack, while opening and closing it. I thought I played a MUD way back when that used a semi colon, but I could be mistaken and each game seems to be different some times... Like say I wanted to: 'open pack, put shirt pack, put pants pack, put torch pack, take hat pack, close pack'. Also how do you put all of something like cakes that are stacked into a pack? I had to keep doing it one at a time and 'all cakes pack' gave a weird message. Thanks in advance.
You can 'put all pack' to put everything in your inventory into your pack. For stacks, you'd need to 'put all.<keyword> pack' -- so, if we're talking travel cakes, the command would be 'put all.cake pack'
I can't remember off of the top of my head whether 'put all pack' will work on coin stacks, but I have this nagging feeling that it doesn't, so if you were moving items and money, be sure to check and 'put coins pack.' I can't test it out at the moment, unfortunately.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on October 16, 2013, 03:31:58 AM
There are some weapons out there that are not strictly two-handed, but have to be wielded in your primary hand.
How you managed to find two of them on your first go befuddles me-- they're not super common or often used as far as I know. >_>
Also, on weapon damages. The description and materials and overall craftsmanship will give you a pretty good idea on this, but be aware that "most expensive" doesn't necessarily mean "does most damage".
I suspect the way it works may be that you can wield heavier weapons in your primary hand than in your secondary hand, but the limits for each hand will be set from your strength. It's been a while since I've played about with this though.
You should be able to use the assess command (http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/assess) to get some more info about an object, including if you can/can't wield it, if it requires two hands, etc. It also tells you where you can wear it, for armor and clothing pieces. I believe the same info is shown when you 'view' the object at a shop, though.
Since the sword you bought is described as a broadsword, and those are usually big, and half-elves are not the strongest of folks, I'm guessing you may only be able to two-hand wield it. But, just to be sure, did you try and remove the torch you were holding in your offhand before you 'es'd your second sword?
PS: This is a desert world; horses do exist but they're very rare. You are unlikely to be run over by a horse-drawn carriage, but an inix-drawn wagon, a mekillot-drawn argosy, or just a crew of riders on war beetles are all plausible.
Quote from: FreeRangeVestric on October 16, 2013, 02:44:38 AM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:31:13 AM
And is there a way to put a string of items into a pack, while opening and closing it. I thought I played a MUD way back when that used a semi colon, but I could be mistaken and each game seems to be different some times... Like say I wanted to: 'open pack, put shirt pack, put pants pack, put torch pack, take hat pack, close pack'. Also how do you put all of something like cakes that are stacked into a pack? I had to keep doing it one at a time and 'all cakes pack' gave a weird message. Thanks in advance.
It is like you thought:
'open pack;put shirt pack;put pants pack;...' etc.
Oh... I think I was using spaces inbetween the commands... Code is fickle and one reason I do not code. :-\
Edit: Ok I tried that. 'open pack;take broadsword (or sawtoothed or bone);close pack' with out half quotations tells me it is not a direction. And with half quotations it tells me this is an Out-of-Character room. And spaces between semi colons does not seem to make the difference in error message.
Quote from: vissa on October 16, 2013, 04:08:08 AM
You can 'put all pack' to put everything in your inventory into your pack. For stacks, you'd need to 'put all.<keyword> pack' -- so, if we're talking travel cakes, the command would be 'put all.cake pack'
I can't remember off of the top of my head whether 'put all pack' will work on coin stacks, but I have this nagging feeling that it doesn't, so if you were moving items and money, be sure to check and 'put coins pack.' I can't test it out at the moment, unfortunately.
So I have to put a 'period' (.) in the equation... That must have been it, 'all round pack' did not work, it only did one at a time. Also I tried using the key words 'traveling' (traveler) and or 'cakes', but the game acted like it had no idea what I was talking about. I do not think I had any thing else in my inventory that even remotely read as 'traveler' (traveling) and especially 'cakes'...
Also does putting coins in my pack, keep it safer? I mean I am assuming no one can look into a closed pack, at least not ordinarily. Also would I know if someone opened my pack to look? I am sure there are pick pockets for a reason, and making your self a lesser mark is helpful, but just how technical does the game go?
Putting coins in your pack is the ultimate safehouse, so long as the pack remains on your back. No one else can open your pack but you if you have it in your inventory or are wearing it. Putting coins in your cloak/aba/whatever weird word your overcoat is called and then closing the cloak is as safe; basically, for as long as the cloak remains on your back. Just remember there is mugging in this game as well as simple pickpocketing.
I haven't seen a griefer pickpocket in a really long time. Like three years maybe. Pickpocket pcs tend to be pretty savvy about who to scavenge from, so just make yourself less of a target. Be clanned, don't wear silk or fine jewelry, even go full pauper in appearance. In the same vein, if you have figured the game out, at least with regards to riches, and have more money than you'll need for the near future and methods to attain more, carrying a lot of coins, some in your inventory, some in your open cloak etc. might end up helping a pickpocket pc get their daily dinner. Although honestly for a while you might want not to tempt the wolves.
Quote from: joyofdiscord on October 16, 2013, 02:58:58 AM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:31:13 AMI looked up 'es' as I recall and tried 'es sword', 'es broadsword' and 'es saw-toothed', but it refused to do it.
What kind of message do you receive when you try to 'es' the weapon? Some heavier one-handed weapons can only be wielded in the primary hand ('ep'), not the offhand ('es'). If that is the case you may need to find a lighter weapon for your secondary hand. I don't recall the exact message given in this case, but it should be suitably informative.
I just checked again, it tells me when I take the second one from my pack, that it is very lite. I am assuming it means lite to me, a Half-Elf... When I type 'es sawtoothed' it simply says "You can't hold this." I checked my equipment and it shows only my primary hand being used with the first sawtoothed bone broadsword. I am not holding a torch or anything in my off hand.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on October 16, 2013, 03:31:58 AM
There are some weapons out there that are not strictly two-handed, but have to be wielded in your primary hand.
How you managed to find two of them on your first go befuddles me-- they're not super common or often used as far as I know. >_>
Also, on weapon damages. The description and materials and overall craftsmanship will give you a pretty good idea on this, but be aware that "most expensive" doesn't necessarily mean "does most damage".
I wanted to dual wield two swords and the falchion, although in fact told me it could be used with a one or two handed grip, also said it was too heavy, plus it was more expensive than a broad sword and I was trying to be realistically frugal in an unknown world, with out resorting to carrying knives... So I stuck with the broadsword (Although it did not say it could be held in one hand, didn't say it could not either...) and now I can not dual wield it. I played a game before, the name escapes me, that did some thing similar. I was suppose to guess what the weapon did, like if it was in good condition or not and what it was made of, etc. In this game I was using 'view' before I bought it and someone else mentioned using 'assess', assuming after I had bought it. And as I already stated the 'skimmer pole' says out right that it is a two-handed weapon.
Quote from: i love toilets on October 16, 2013, 01:47:40 PM
Putting coins in your pack is the ultimate safehouse, so long as the pack remains on your back. No one else can open your pack but you if you have it in your inventory or are wearing it. Putting coins in your cloak/aba/whatever weird word your overcoat is called and then closing the cloak is as safe; basically, for as long as the cloak remains on your back. Just remember there is mugging in this game as well as simple pickpocketing.
I haven't seen a griefer pickpocket in a really long time. Like three years maybe. Pickpocket pcs tend to be pretty savvy about who to scavenge from, so just make yourself less of a target. Be clanned, don't wear silk or fine jewelry, even go full pauper in appearance. In the same vein, if you have figured the game out, at least with regards to riches, and have more money than you'll need for the near future and methods to attain more, carrying a lot of coins, some in your inventory, some in your open cloak etc. might end up helping a pickpocket pc get their daily dinner. Although honestly for a while you might want not to tempt the wolves.
Wait... putting coins in my back pack and my cloak with it closed is the ultimate safe house, but a pick pocket can still access it if they are skilled enough? Or they are kept out permanently, unless of course they just mug me or kill me to take my coin? Also can a pickpocket actually take my backpack when it is being worn or in inventory or my cloak off with me not even being aware of it?
I have my character bare bones for the most part and not just because I am starting either. The cheapest of everything, regarding clothing that is and I try to have some form of defense like leggings and arm guards, etc. However... just out of curiousity... it said in order for me to put on my leggings, since I guess it was attached to their own breeches... I had to remove my current pants. Well I did that, no one "seemed" to be around, plus I was still in the OOC room. But in game, will that catch some kind of offense or some other naughty even?
Also does the slitted eye goggles and or head scarf actually affect vision in the game or the over all health of the character or is that strictly for appearance? I bought gogglesgles because they were cheep and sounded useful...
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:22:44 PM
Also does the slitted eye goggles and or head scarf actually affect vision in the game or the over all health of the character or is that strictly for appearance? I bought gogglesgles because they were cheep and sounded useful...
Without going into too much detail (and without knowing too much detail, really), yes, sunslits (I think those are what you're referring to?) are functional beyond making you look kinda silly, and are useful, as you thought.
Quote from: vissa on October 16, 2013, 04:08:08 AM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:31:13 AM
And is there a way to put a string of items into a pack, while opening and closing it. I thought I played a MUD way back when that used a semi colon, but I could be mistaken and each game seems to be different some times... Like say I wanted to: 'open pack, put shirt pack, put pants pack, put torch pack, take hat pack, close pack'. Also how do you put all of something like cakes that are stacked into a pack? I had to keep doing it one at a time and 'all cakes pack' gave a weird message. Thanks in advance.
You can 'put all pack' to put everything in your inventory into your pack. For stacks, you'd need to 'put all.<keyword> pack' -- so, if we're talking travel cakes, the command would be 'put all.cake pack'
I can't remember off of the top of my head whether 'put all pack' will work on coin stacks, but I have this nagging feeling that it doesn't, so if you were moving items and money, be sure to check and 'put coins pack.' I can't test it out at the moment, unfortunately.
I see the problem I am having, minus I was not aware of the period and no space at first, but regardless of how many cakes I have, I can only use the singular form of the word because that is how it shows up on my screen, even if I was referring to all cakes that I possess. Also 'put coins pack' (plural) works just fine. However, what if I wanted to split the amount to take out of my pack, say I was worried someone might steel 1000 coins in my hand, when I only needed 100 in the first place to shop?
You, NewPlayer, depending on where you start, may have made one of the most important purchases in those rooms by purchasing those wacky goggles. Just my opinion.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 16, 2013, 11:05:47 AM
You should be able to use the assess command (http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/assess) to get some more info about an object, including if you can/can't wield it, if it requires two hands, etc. It also tells you where you can wear it, for armor and clothing pieces. I believe the same info is shown when you 'view' the object at a shop, though.
Since the sword you bought is described as a broadsword, and those are usually big, and half-elves are not the strongest of folks, I'm guessing you may only be able to two-hand wield it. But, just to be sure, did you try and remove the torch you were holding in your offhand before you 'es'd your second sword?
PS: This is a desert world; horses do exist but they're very rare. You are unlikely to be run over by a horse-drawn carriage, but an inix-drawn wagon, a mekillot-drawn argosy, or just a crew of riders on war beetles are all plausible.
I just checked again and I am not holding anything else and it tells me the sword in question is very lite. I am assuming it means lite to me, as in for a Half-Elf... When I type 'es sawtoothed' it simply says "You can't hold this." So I have no idea.
Quote from: Fujikoma on October 16, 2013, 02:40:51 PM
You, NewPlayer, depending on where you start, may have made one of the most important purchases in those rooms by purchasing those wacky goggles. Just my opinion.
Thanks FreeRangeVestric and Fujikoma- They sounded important to me at least anyway. I did not start in a desert area, since it was described as a farming town, but I do plan on doing some traveling, so I figured, if they could actually be used, will be put to good use. :D Plus who knows how far the sand travels... I am hearing about endless sands or something and bad wind storms...
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
Thanks FreeRangeVestric and Fujikoma- They sounded important to me at least anyway. I did not start in a desert area, since it was described as a farming town, but I do plan on doing some traveling, so I figured, if they could actually be used, will be put to good use. :D Plus who knows how far the sand travels... I am hearing about endless sands or something and bad wind storms...
Hehe, trust me, you started in just about the desert-est of desert areas by picking Red Storm. Honestly, it is probably not the best starting location for a new player, but... Might as well get used to Arm's harshness by starting in one of the harshest places there is, I suppose. (=
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:22:44 PM
Wait... putting coins in my back pack and my cloak with it closed is the ultimate safe house, but a pick pocket can still access it if they are skilled enough? Or they are kept out permanently, unless of course they just mug me or kill me to take my coin?
Kept out permanently. There is no way right now for anyone to open anything anyone else has their mitts on, therefore, your all-important crap is safe, although if the container for your stuff is in your inventory, they can try to steal it, and then open it later.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:22:44 PM
Also can a pickpocket actually take my backpack when it is being worn or in inventory or my cloak off with me not even being aware of it?
Common sense would say no, and I have never seen this actually happen to anyone (a pack being taken off someone's back when they are not asleep), but the best thieves can surprise you with what they are capable of taking, and you can get drunk or spiced or both, or otherwise be mentally incapacitated in this game. I've had like four packs taken from me when my pc was sleeping. None awake, nor have I heard of it. Things in your inventory are potential prey. The helpfiles state that heavier objects are generally harder to steal, and that very heavy objects like a heavy sword or heavy pack are extremely difficult to steal.
1. Definitions:
Wield = EP (P = primary)
Hold = ES (S = secondary)
Dual-wield = ETWO
To switch from one of those, to another, you use the command CHANGE, this way:
change hands ep etwo
or
change hands etwo es
Which would switch your primary "wielded" weapon, to a dual-wield position, with both hands wrapped around the handle of the weapon.
or
which would switch from having both hands wrapped around the weapon, to being held (ES) in your secondary hand.
2. Certain weapons and tools can only be wielded, and not held. It sounds like that sawtooth sword cannot be held. Conversely, certain bows and tools can only be held, and not wielded.
3. By choosing things totally contrary to what people have recommended, you have discovered WHY people recommend otherwise.
4. You can only wear one item per wear slot. That is the nature of the code. There are LOTS of wear slots - I believe 8 "finger" slots just for rings - a neck AND a throat slot, a torso AND a body slot, a "belt" AND a waist slot, a head AND a face slot. If you type EQ you will see what you're wearing, and which slot it's taking up.
5. Items in the game are singular, when it comes to manipulating the code. You put all.cake pack, not put all.cakes. If you're transferring from one container to the other (such as from a bag to your pack) the command is pour bag pack. This does not work on all containers, such as trying to pour a bag of items onto certain furniture items in apartments.
6. Theft: if you are wearing something and that something can be closed, and it IS closed, then no one can steal whatever is inside it. However, they can still knock you unconscious, then steal the whole container, which will result in them having your container, plus everything that's inside it. If you don't have something in a container, and it's just loose in your inventory, then it is MUCH easier for someone to steal it from you. That's why people suggest that you pocket your items. Typing INV will display which items are loose in your inventory, and not secure in a pocket or container.
QuoteHowever... just out of curiousity... it said in order for me to put on my leggings, since I guess it was attached to their own breeches... I had to remove my current pants. Well I did that, no one "seemed" to be around, plus I was still in the OOC room. But in game, will that catch some kind of offense or some other naughty even?
If you're in an OOC starter room, you can change clothing and things like that without any worry of IC reprecussions. But once you enter the game, you won't find any such places.
In the game world, just ask yourself: What would happen if you took your pants off in the middle of a street or a bar in real life? Expect the same kind of reaction in Zalanthas, for the most part. Most taverns will have some sort of dorm room with bunks, cots, and so on for people to bed down, so someone changing clothes in such places probably wouldn't raise too many brows. But if you start changing clothes while sitting at the bar, people might start taking offense.
In general, try and use emotes (whether via the emote command or command emotes attached to other commands) to explain more about what your character is doing and how. As you might expect. There's a difference between:
emote steps behind a bunk to conceal himself while he changes from ~pants into ~trousers.
remove pants
wear trousers (slipping them on quickly)and:
emote jumps up on top of ~bar, pulling down his pants for all to see!
remove pants:)
BTW: Red Storm has farms, but it's also definitely in the middle of the desert. Most of the grain fields around RS are virtual, I believe. Allanak does have a few farming villages. They're to the north of Storm.
Quote from: FreeRangeVestric on October 16, 2013, 02:57:31 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
Thanks FreeRangeVestric and Fujikoma- They sounded important to me at least anyway. I did not start in a desert area, since it was described as a farming town, but I do plan on doing some traveling, so I figured, if they could actually be used, will be put to good use. :D Plus who knows how far the sand travels... I am hearing about endless sands or something and bad wind storms...
Hehe, trust me, you started in just about the desert-est of desert areas by picking Red Storm. Honestly, it is probably not the best starting location for a new player, but... Might as well get used to Arm's harshness by starting in one of the harshest places there is, I suppose. (=
Red Storm equals desert storms... Doh! :o It said there was very few theiving and murders going on, so I figured it was one of the safest places. Other towns said the Templars were too cruel and corrupted and 'rinth definately was not newbie friendly... maybe I will just stay for ever in the OOC room... :P
Or just wish up and ask if you can point again.
Yeah...Red Storm is not really this sort of farming village...
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs31/f/2008/201/6/e/Medieval_Village___Final_by_Betomelo.jpg)
...but a little more similar to this:
(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1903/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1903-4373.jpg)
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: FreeRangeVestric on October 16, 2013, 02:57:31 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
Thanks FreeRangeVestric and Fujikoma- They sounded important to me at least anyway. I did not start in a desert area, since it was described as a farming town, but I do plan on doing some traveling, so I figured, if they could actually be used, will be put to good use. :D Plus who knows how far the sand travels... I am hearing about endless sands or something and bad wind storms...
Hehe, trust me, you started in just about the desert-est of desert areas by picking Red Storm. Honestly, it is probably not the best starting location for a new player, but... Might as well get used to Arm's harshness by starting in one of the harshest places there is, I suppose. (=
Red Storm equals desert storms... Doh! :o It said there was very few theiving and murders going on, so I figured it was one of the safest places. Other towns said the Templars were too cruel and corrupted and 'rinth definately was not newbie friendly... maybe I will just stay for ever in the OOC room... :P
I believe the help files say that there isn't much thieving and murder in Red Storm because thieves and murderers are too soft for Red Storm. Or something along those lines. =p
That being said, you are right that the village itself is relatively safe so long as you don't anger the wrong people, since the militia there enforces a sort of heavy-handed peace. However, the area around the village is about as dangerous as it gets as far as wildlife goes, and any enemies you manage to make inside the gates can simply look for you once you leave, and the guards will take about 0 interest.
So, like I say, probably not the best newbie area! Still, try to make the most of it, since you've already picked. Don't be too discouraged if death comes quickly, and consider rolling up in one of the major cities next time! I find that's a much better way to get familiar with the game, but I'm sure others have learned in some of the more dangerous areas before.
Those corrupt Templars are really harmless pussycats. Well, at least next to a Silt Horror. (=
Quote from: FreeRangeVestric on October 16, 2013, 03:38:26 PM
I believe the help files say that there isn't much thieving and murder in Red Storm because thieves and murderers are too soft for Red Storm. Or something along those lines. =p
That being said, you are right that the village itself is relatively safe so long as you don't anger the wrong people, since the militia there enforces a sort of heavy-handed peace. However, the area around the village is about as dangerous as it gets as far as wildlife goes, and any enemies you manage to make inside the gates can simply look for you once you leave, and the guards will take about 0 interest.
So, like I say, probably not the best newbie area! Still, try to make the most of it, since you've already picked. Don't be too discouraged if death comes quickly, and consider rolling up in one of the major cities next time! I find that's a much better way to get familiar with the game, but I'm sure others have learned in some of the more dangerous areas before.
Those corrupt Templars are really harmless pussycats. Well, at least next to a Silt Horror. (=
Haha! Alright, thank you. I will try my best. :D
Quote from: manipura on October 16, 2013, 03:36:21 PM
Yeah...Red Storm is not really this sort of farming village...
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs31/f/2008/201/6/e/Medieval_Village___Final_by_Betomelo.jpg)
...but a little more similar to this:
(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1903/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1903-4373.jpg)
You know, with all seriosuness... the first picture is how I actually envisioned it, minus the water ways and such lushness of the land, but close enough. :D But now with everyone telling me other wise, I picture it as the deserts of Morrowwind, with the desert winds coming at you at high speed ripping flesh from bone and blackening everything and the blight making people sick, etc. What the hell did I get myself into!? Haha! Puts on the slit goggles. 8)
Quote from: Jherlen on October 16, 2013, 03:13:47 PM
In the game world, just ask yourself: What would happen if you took your pants off in the middle of a street or a bar in real life?
In general, try and use emotes (whether via the emote command or command emotes attached to other commands) to explain more about what your character is doing and how. As you might expect. There's a difference between:
emote steps behind a bunk to conceal himself while he changes from ~pants into ~trousers.
remove pants
wear trousers (slipping them on quickly)
and:
emote jumps up on top of ~bar, pulling down his pants for all to see!
remove pants
:)
BTW: Red Storm has farms, but it's also definitely in the middle of the desert. Most of the grain fields around RS are virtual, I believe. Allanak does have a few farming villages. They're to the north of Storm.
I picture the reaction to be the same as from Blazing Saddles. :D
I wanted to try and practice my emoting as the help files suggested, but it wont allow me, assuming because I am still in the Out-of-Character room. So I guess I will have to step out and go look for a bonnie lass and
have my way with her talk to her about the weather in general... "Nice sand storms we're having..." *smiles stupidly and falls off barstool...*
And what does 'virtual' mean? Made up in the sense that even in the game world they do not exist, can not be interacted with or even seen with one's eyes... only spoken about being there?
Virtual in this sense is anything that exists in the game world, but not the coded world. Like the millions of other humans and elves you can read in the Mdescs of city rooms. Or the birds, bugs, and plant life that is there, but cant be interacted with codedly.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 04:46:45 PM
I guess I will have to step out and go look for a bonnie lass and have my way with her talk to her about the weather in general... "Nice sand storms we're having..." *smiles stupidly and falls off barstool...*
And that's fine! Emoting is pretty encouraged when you're in the game world, even if you're just practicing. You can emote and have a whole conversation with an NPC if you're too afraid to talk with a PC.
Quote
And what does 'virtual' mean? Made up in the sense that even in the game world they do not exist, can not be interacted with or even seen with one's eyes... only spoken about being there?
Correct, it means something exists, but isn't a coded object or character or location in the game. When you enter a tavern, for example, you'll generally see about 3-5 NPCs in the room plus however many PCs are there. That doesn't mean that only 3-5 people are in the room besides you. The rest of the people there can be considered "virtual" (in Armageddon we use the term "vNPC" as shorthand to refer to these virtual people.) The reason we use these virtual people is that having several dozen NPCs in a crowded tavern would be quite spammy. Even in public locations where there are no NPCs in the room, like streets for instance, there are probably still virtual NPCs on the road besides your character. So keep in mind if you try and attack someone on a road in broad daylight, someone will probably see and report it to the guards.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 16, 2013, 03:07:21 PM
1. Definitions:
Wield = EP (P = primary)
Hold = ES (S = secondary)
Dual-wield = ETWO
To switch from one of those, to another, you use the command CHANGE, this way:
change hands ep etwo
or
change hands etwo es
Which would switch your primary "wielded" weapon, to a dual-wield position, with both hands wrapped around the handle of the weapon.
or
which would switch from having both hands wrapped around the weapon, to being held (ES) in your secondary hand.
2. Certain weapons and tools can only be wielded, and not held. It sounds like that sawtooth sword cannot be held. Conversely, certain bows and tools can only be held, and not wielded.
3. By choosing things totally contrary to what people have recommended, you have discovered WHY people recommend otherwise.
4. You can only wear one item per wear slot. That is the nature of the code. There are LOTS of wear slots - I believe 8 "finger" slots just for rings - a neck AND a throat slot, a torso AND a body slot, a "belt" AND a waist slot, a head AND a face slot. If you type EQ you will see what you're wearing, and which slot it's taking up.
5. Items in the game are singular, when it comes to manipulating the code. You put all.cake pack, not put all.cakes. If you're transferring from one container to the other (such as from a bag to your pack) the command is pour bag pack. This does not work on all containers, such as trying to pour a bag of items onto certain furniture items in apartments.
6. Theft: if you are wearing something and that something can be closed, and it IS closed, then no one can steal whatever is inside it. However, they can still knock you unconscious, then steal the whole container, which will result in them having your container, plus everything that's inside it. If you don't have something in a container, and it's just loose in your inventory, then it is MUCH easier for someone to steal it from you. That's why people suggest that you pocket your items. Typing INV will display which items are loose in your inventory, and not secure in a pocket or container.
1. Thank you for that, I was using the help files, but it is much more convenient to simply read it all at once instead of typing and scrolling and retyping, etc. However, I am still a bit confused and was not sure how to go back to how it was originally, so I simply removed it and then rewielded it.
2. How do you find out which can be 'held' and which can only be 'wielded'? I 'view' before I buy, but it does not mention anything about wielding or holding...
3. I did try and go with what was recommended, minus my starting race. The game says to roleplay and I can simply do it better as a Half-Elf, although I also read a Human can be anything, so a loaner could have also been possible, but I like the plight of the Half-Elf. As far as for starting location, I did take into consideration other people's suggestions while also reading the help files... I suppose on that one the help files won out, but I definitely did not choose the 'rinth as someone else whole heartedly suggested against it.
4. Makes sense, although I am curious how serious the game is regarding wearing said items. Some I know have to take off something to put something on and then reput what you were wearing to begin with, instead of being automatic. Kind of like wearing your underware on the out side of your pants, who actually does that!? *walks quietly away to change...*
5. Thank you.
6. I was curious about that, I figured how hard could it really be to pull a draw string or unzip or unbutton a bag from behind. Like in high school when you walk carefully and unzip a buddies backpack with out them knowing and then rezip it, but they never notice. My INV is completely empty and my cloak is closed. Can you focus on a specific body part like a head when attacking or trying to sap some one and if the victim wears a helmet keeps them from being knocked out or at least drastically reduces the chance? 'help sap' did not mention it and nothing came under 'help helmet' and 'help armor' did not show what I was asking, just that it protects some what, not protects against sap or surprise knock out.
And thanks for all the help. :)
Superheros... Superheros wear their underwear on the outside... No one knows why...
EDIT: Speaking of sneaking up on people and doing silly things, when I was in the army I used to creep up on people who stood really still while talking and gently place a rock on top of their helmet, then sneak away.
Quote from: Jherlen on October 16, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
Correct, it means something exists, but isn't a coded object or character or location in the game. When you enter a tavern, for example, you'll generally see about 3-5 NPCs in the room plus however many PCs are there. That doesn't mean that only 3-5 people are in the room besides you. The rest of the people there can be considered "virtual" (in Armageddon we use the term "vNPC" as shorthand to refer to these virtual people.) The reason we use these virtual people is that having several dozen NPCs in a crowded tavern would be quite spammy. Even in public locations where there are no NPCs in the room, like streets for instance, there are probably still virtual NPCs on the road besides your character. So keep in mind if you try and attack someone on a road in broad daylight, someone will probably see and report it to the guards.
Thanks RogueGunslinger and Jherlen! I read about people who were not coded, but still there. I was hoping the farms were coded, but that is fine. However, does it state when you 'look' that there are virtual people in the tavern, with out using the term 'virtual'? I mean if it is night time do you just assume most everyone is asleep or it will give a description like 'the streets are barren' or even that does not count, virtual people are just every where regardless of what it says or time of day, etc.?
The notion of griefing in armageddon is so pathetic. As long as everything is kosher and no rules are being broken, dont cry too much.
I've learned this.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: Jherlen on October 16, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
Correct, it means something exists, but isn't a coded object or character or location in the game. When you enter a tavern, for example, you'll generally see about 3-5 NPCs in the room plus however many PCs are there. That doesn't mean that only 3-5 people are in the room besides you. The rest of the people there can be considered "virtual" (in Armageddon we use the term "vNPC" as shorthand to refer to these virtual people.) The reason we use these virtual people is that having several dozen NPCs in a crowded tavern would be quite spammy. Even in public locations where there are no NPCs in the room, like streets for instance, there are probably still virtual NPCs on the road besides your character. So keep in mind if you try and attack someone on a road in broad daylight, someone will probably see and report it to the guards.
Thanks RogueGunslinger and Jherlen! I read about people who were not coded, but still there. I was hoping the farms were coded, but that is fine. However, does it state when you 'look' that there are virtual people in the tavern, with out using the term 'virtual'? I mean if it is night time do you just assume most everyone is asleep or it will give a description like 'the streets are barren' or even that does not count, virtual people are just every where regardless of what it says or time of day, etc.?
Virtual people are present when the room description or room echoes say they're present.
If the room description says the streets are barren, then the streets are barren.
If the room description says it's bustling and busy, then it's bustling and busy.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 16, 2013, 05:31:23 PM
I read about people who were not coded, but still there. I was hoping the farms were coded, but that is fine. However, does it state when you 'look' that there are virtual people in the tavern, with out using the term 'virtual'? I mean if it is night time do you just assume most everyone is asleep or it will give a description like 'the streets are barren' or even that does not count, virtual people are just every where regardless of what it says or time of day, etc.?
There are coded farming villages and ranches, but not ones controlled by the government of Red Storm. Allanak has at least a few coded ones in the vicinity of the city.
Many rooms will have different descriptions depending on the time of day. I can't say with certainty that they will always mention the presence/absence of people, but you can assume there are more people out during the day than at night. Taverns you can safely assume are never totally empty, since at the very least there will always be NPCs there.
Honestly the best way to learn about what the rooms look like, is to go into the rooms and look. Many of the things you're asking about, you don't actually need to know prior to game play. Such as removing your cloak before removing your shirt. If you were to actually -try- to remove your shirt, you'd discover that - yes, you can do that. Does it make sense to do it? Probably not. But don't feel you need to micromanage every movement your character makes. You can also "fudge it," by using the emote system.
With the cloak/shirt example, let's assume you have a cuirass you want to wear instead of the shirt. So you can:
rem cloak
rem shirt
wear cuirass
Or you can
rem shirt (after shrugging ~cloak off ^me shoulders)
wear cuirass [and drapes ~cloak around &me)
which would result in others seeing:
>After shrugging his hooded desert-camouflaged greatcloak off his shoulders, the tall handsome
man removes his sleeveless sandcloth shirt.
>The tall handsome man wears a duskhorn cuirass around his body, and drapes his hooded, desert-
camouflaged cloak around himself.
If you are really nervous about showing up in the game without understanding the concept of a virtual world, here's a room description from the logs on the original submissions webpage (the page itself can be found here:
http://www.armageddon.org/original/type/Logs )
QuoteThe Desert Rose [ES Quit]
Entering this busy bar is like stepping into a dimly-lit cave, the thick stone walls keeping it comfortably cool inside and adding to the cave-like feel of the place. A constant buzz of conversation fills the room, which is populated by elves from a variety of tribes. Narrow arrow slits on the western wall are draped with sandcloth to block the heat of the afternoon sun, but still let in a scant measure of filtered light. The sandcloth covers are rolled up and tied at dusk to let in the cool night breezes. The bar is on the north wall, and tables and chairs, most of them occupied, are grouped about the room in the shadows. On the south wall, a clear area provides a spot for dancing or entertainment to be performed. An elaborate archway in the eastern wall allows entry to a vibrantly-hued room,smoke writhing out past its entry curtain.
The desert elf outpost message board is propped up against the wall here.
A thick rug of shiny quirri hide lies on the floor beneath the arrow slits.
A multi-ringed dartboard hangs on a wall here.
So - the walls - are virtual. You can't interact with them. The "elves from a variety of tribes" are not coded - they're virtual. The description describes what your character sees, and you, the player, will imagine the ambiance of a crowded bar filled with a bunch of elves all wearing tribal colors, trinkets, feathers, etc. etc. Now, here's where it gets tricky: The bar is coded. The archway to the east really is a coded "exit" that you can go through to another room. I don't recall if there really is a curtain - but if there is, you can open and close it.
The message board - is *strictly* an OOC device. Your character cannot read, literacy is criminal in the entirety of the game-world, unless you are a noble or templar, or a high-enough-ranking GMH merchant family member who grew up learning to read and write the trade language Cavilish. The board is more of a "gossip clutch." Your character isn't reading a post; he's overhearing some gossip. That's how you'd treat it. Do pay attention to the dates on those posts though - they'll clue you in on whether or not anything is worth discussing with other characters you sit with at the bar (in other words - if Kadius was hiring, back in 2007, it's very likely that the agent who was hiring, is LONG dead, and you won't be able to find him for a job. BUT! You could still ask around if there's a Kadian agent doing any hiring currently).
The rug is a "sittable" object, and I believe at least 2 people can sit on it at the same time.
The dartboard is also a coded object. To use it, you need darts - you have to either ep or es the dart (both syntaxes will work), then "throw dart dartboard". Emoting around a game of darts can be a lot of fun, and it's actually a good way to practice your emotes. Just don't emote missing the dartboard and throwing a dart in someone's eye - that is considered "power-emoting" - and besides, if a staff member is peeking, he might make the world come to life and have your character arrested for attempted murder :)
Quote from: Lizzie on October 16, 2013, 03:07:21 PM
Something wrong related to dual wielding
'
Dual wield is a combination of ep and es of two weapons, either the same or different.
Two-handing is etwo. Dual wield is es and ep, which is holding a secondary and primary weapon.
Quote from: evilcabbage on October 17, 2013, 12:16:32 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 16, 2013, 03:07:21 PM
Something wrong related to dual wielding
'
Dual wield is a combination of ep and es of two weapons, either the same or different.
Two-handing is etwo. Dual wield is es and ep, which is holding a secondary and primary weapon.
This is correct.
I like two handed... Dual wield is good, sure, but man...
Quote from: Fujikoma on October 17, 2013, 01:21:20 AM
I like two handed... Dual wield is good, sure, but man...
Each one has its own merits that are for you to discover :D
Protip: True Zalanthan badasses es the worst weapon they can find and have nothing else for defense. Don't... ever do that. Unless you want to be a certified badass.
Done that in sparring many times, with a dagger or a knife.
Yep what the others said was correct - I got the terms mixed up. Dual-wield = wield *plus* hold, one weapon per hand. Two-handed = one weapon held with both hands.
"change hands ep etwo' is still the correct syntax - etwo is two-handed wielding
Quote from: Wastrel on October 16, 2013, 05:32:01 PM
The notion of griefing in armageddon is so pathetic. As long as everything is kosher and no rules are being broken, dont cry too much.
I've learned this.
I've never understood the deep ire some pcs (players? I don't know) seem to have for thieves and burglars. Sure, maybe you're upset that somebody took your sword or your pack. Its a game, and they sold that to buy kalans to eat. You can get your clan to give you more or go earn your ridiculous indie cash for more and anyone who steals or burgles likely doesn't have other methods of self-sustaining to fall back on.
Pc criminals need all the slack they can get too, with authorities rarely having chances to go after criminals and usually being quite get-go about it; likely if soldiers are asking your pc for the description of That Thief Guy you can go ahead and forget that he has blonde hair, a vertical facial scar, and blue eyes. Or maybe you only saw that he's got blonde hair. Or maybe you saw that he has blonde hair and brown eyes, and aren't really sure of the eye color, but the conversation is going fast enough so that you forgot to mention you aren't really sure. That's your decision though. Just giving you a heads-up though, playing a non-authority-protected criminal in this game is tough.
I have never had a problem with pick pockets...burglers that don't relock or take everything...well, that is another story.
I mean, it would make sense if a burglar only took a small to a moderate amount of stuff, and locked the door, leaving the owner to think they misplaced it somewhere, somehow, as opposed to grabbing everything not nailed down and leaving the door wide open, which screams burglar, which might make some of the same profession start eying you as a liability possibly in need of dealing with, I would think. But I don't know, don't usually play those types of characters, just how I would imagine such a thing going down when the militia starts kicking down doors and rummaging through people's things looking for lockpicks and contraband and asking questions about where all these things came from.
Quote from: i love toilets on October 17, 2013, 07:51:26 AM
Quote from: Wastrel on October 16, 2013, 05:32:01 PM
The notion of griefing in armageddon is so pathetic. As long as everything is kosher and no rules are being broken, dont cry too much.
I've learned this.
I've never understood the deep ire some pcs (players? I don't know) seem to have for thieves and burglars. Sure, maybe you're upset that somebody took your sword or your pack. Its a game, and they sold that to buy kalans to eat. You can get your clan to give you more or go earn your ridiculous indie cash for more and anyone who steals or burgles likely doesn't have other methods of self-sustaining to fall back on.
Pc criminals need all the slack they can get too, with authorities rarely having chances to go after criminals and usually being quite get-go about it; likely if soldiers are asking your pc for the description of That Thief Guy you can go ahead and forget that he has blonde hair, a vertical facial scar, and blue eyes. Or maybe you only saw that he's got blonde hair. Or maybe you saw that he has blonde hair and brown eyes, and aren't really sure of the eye color, but the conversation is going fast enough so that you forgot to mention you aren't really sure. That's your decision though. Just giving you a heads-up though, playing a non-authority-protected criminal in this game is tough.
Well in real life would you want someone stealing from you? I highly doubt it. Hell, most people complain about being short changed a few scents at the market for crying out loud or complain of high prices. "Look at that! That is highway robbery!" So, although I have not been around long enough in the game to see how it all works, I would assume people would not look kindly to being stolen from, especially since we are suppose to role play heavily in the game. I have been reading the help files one by one, and understand Elves steal, not so much because they need to steal as in to eat or even survive, but simply because it is looked graciously upon, at least to their own tribes, as a good skill to have and master. Like showmanship and trying to one up another...
You have no idea if that person in game you stole from had a family to feed or if their mother was sick and dieing in bed, etc. That money or that expensive pendant (Which should of been hidden or was in fact in a closed pack before it was taken from them.) was to be sold for coin in order to pay the bills or to buy food for their children. Now you took it for what ever reason and their family is suffering because of it, possibly starving with echoed cries of their malnutrition children and dieing mother. Perhaps if you had come to that person and ask they would have gladly given it to you, (Not ask or tell them to give their money as if mugging them of course.) speaking of food, perhaps a little coin if no food was on hand and they had it to spare or even giving you some odd task to perform, with dignity of course, to 'earn' it.
Now if you are some other race trying to steal (I have not been through all the help files, mostly what was available at character creation for a newbie.) than maybe you have a legit reason (Although stealing is never legit, except to the Elves, but again it is not so much as legit as 'cool', to my understanding.) but I would say get a job like the rest of the population.
However, obviously, this is a game. And with out the scum to walk the streets, the game would be a whole lot more boring and less intriguing. So in saying all that, don't act surprised if people become up set or someone tries to knock your block off for stealing from them. Just as I would expect in game, if the attacker was more powerful to fight back and possibly kill the victim, in the end. But then I would assume that would be considered murder or manslaughter, plus thievery, etc. by the law.
And what is all this talk about soldiers asking questions to identify the assailant. That actually happens in the game or you were speaking figuratively? And can the victim be considered safe from the militia if they are being mugged or pick pocketed, but the victim retaliates and beat the thief with in an inch of their life, or is that considered abuse? What if the victim kills the pick pocket, assuming that he or she had not attacked you first, only tried to steal. Would the soldiers throw you in jail or execute you for murder or the game considers that fair play for being stolen from in the first place?
Quote from: Fujikoma on October 16, 2013, 05:27:59 PM
Superheros... Superheros wear their underwear on the outside... No one knows why...
EDIT: Speaking of sneaking up on people and doing silly things, when I was in the army I used to creep up on people who stood really still while talking and gently place a rock on top of their helmet, then sneak away.
Drill SGTs use to go around the barracks with a black marker and if asleep, mark your neck and considered you killed, then smoke you. I use to place small pebbles in people's boots when on guard and watch them wake up and dress and tell them they're dead for not checking for scorpions, poisonous spiders and such. ;D
Yea, I am not sure why a lot of Superheros do that either...
When you're talking about law-related issues in game, there are two considerations: the NPC-driven crime code, and then dealing with PC militia/templars.
PCs, in general, are open to corruption. A well-placed bribe can take the heat off you if you're somebody important/useful/liked by whatever templar or soldier catches you. On the other hand, even failing a steal on a noble is enough to get you executed if you get caught and can't beg and plead for your life.
The NPC crime code is more "fair", but less forgiving. NPC soldiers will attempt to arrest you and drag you to jail if you commit a crime; if you resist, they will attack and most likely kill you. If taken to jail, you'll lose your weapons and be forced to sit in the cell for a number of hours, during which PC templars and soldiers can come find and harass you.
I suggest you study "help nosave", in particular nosave arrest, for some more info.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
Well in real life would you want someone stealing from you?
I mean that I have encountered a number of times people for whom the ire of being stolen from goes deeper than their character and that they as RL people wish pickpockets weren't a guild... of course I might have just happened to run into the same person playing multiple characters or misinterpreted something along the line.
In this game, however, this world, theft and mugging and murder are daily occurrences which run rampant compared to Earth. I expect people not to treat the fact their non-essential non-majorly expensive thing getting stolen as LESS OF A BIG FREAKING DEAL OMG I HATE PICKPOCKETS SO FREAKING MUCH come on that's like the twentieth time in your life you've been stolen from.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
You have no idea if that person in game you stole from had a family to feed or if their mother was sick and dieing in bed, etc. That money or that expensive pendant (Which should of been hidden or was in fact in a closed pack before it was taken from them.) was to be sold for coin in order to pay the bills or to buy food for their children. Now you took it for what ever reason and their family is suffering because of it, possibly starving with echoed cries of their malnutrition children and dieing mother.
1. Of course I don't know, you don't know, that guy doesn't know, only the victim knows, and I, you, and that criminal don't care. This is Armageddon.
2. Profit margins for active independent criminals tend to be slim.
3. Profit margins for most members of the Zalanthan population tend to be pretty darn slim.
4. You've got some bite to your reply when there was none in mine. Upset you lost something? I get upset, too. However I think everyone who hasn't needs to get over it and treat pickpockets and burglars as flavorful, exciting additions to the game, not a source of butthurt.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
Perhaps if you had come to that person and ask they would have gladly given it to you, (Not ask or tell them to give their money as if mugging them of course.)
Nothing is free, unfortunately. Handouts always comes with a price and some people will refuse handouts for this reason also. This is an extremely resource-strapped world. Although I've seen the occasional noble or other high-ranking pc shell out stuff to the unwashed masses for their own amusement because they are extremely powerful, can afford to indulge their expensive hobbies, and are either having some clean old-fashioned fun with the pitiful unwashed masses or are sending some kind of message, one I've seen a lot being, we are X powerful clan, and can give out monstrous amounts of Y and Z if we so choose without batting an eye/plus we're celebrating something.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
speaking of food, perhaps a little coin if no food was on hand and they had it to spare or even giving you some odd task to perform, with dignity of course, to 'earn' it.
I enjoy when this happens in the game, myself.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
Now if you are some other race trying to steal (I have not been through all the help files, mostly what was available at character creation for a newbie.) than maybe you have a legit reason (Although stealing is never legit, except to the Elves, but again it is not so much as legit as 'cool', to my understanding.) but I would say get a job like the rest of the population.
The availability of jobs, and the types of jobs (hard-coded ones for pcs at least) varies from place to place. It would be too long to list here. If you mean jobs that are 100% honest and you point to the 'rinth, you're basically screwed. Elsewhere its more flexible.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
However, obviously, this is a game. And with out the scum to walk the streets, the game would be a whole lot more boring and less intriguing. So in saying all that, don't act surprised if people become up set or someone tries to knock your block off for stealing from them. Just as I would expect in game, if the attacker was more powerful to fight back and possibly kill the victim, in the end. But then I would assume that would be considered murder or manslaughter, plus thievery, etc. by the law.
Yep.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
And what is all this talk about soldiers asking questions to identify the assailant. That actually happens in the game or you were speaking figuratively?
Soldiers exist as pcs and can be animated by staff as well. If you mention being mugged or seeing something get stolen around them and the city isn't burning down, one will ask you to remember what you can about them.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
And can the victim be considered safe from the militia if they are being mugged or pick pocketed, but the victim retaliates and beat the thief with in an inch of their life, or is that considered abuse? What if the victim kills the pick pocket, assuming that he or she had not attacked you first, only tried to steal. Would the soldiers throw you in jail or execute you for murder or the game considers that fair play for being stolen from in the first place?
1. The militia is not free of corruption and bias, and often can be bought off. 2. Being a citizen and in good standing with the law helps but does not guarantee your safe removal from the situation.
Let's assume your situation is complication free. Crimcode now enters in. Crimcode is criminal code, what happens when the thief gets a crimflag, or is caught by a virtual person or yourself in the room while committing the theft. This causes the npc soldiers to go after them, and then catch them for a stint in the jails if they can't get away. Any move on your part in this situation will be crimflagged as a murder attempt and soldiers will cut you down there--- this is, of course, assuming you didn't move from a room where there are people to a room where its just you and the thief. A room where there aren't people besides you two won't put a crimflag on either of you of any type.
Socially, you will still be considered a murderer if you kill them and then tell anyone, because you did it in the city, and one of the few things holding people to the cities is the fact that its somewhat safer, therefore the authorities are interested in getting rid of anyone willing to commit non-authority-backed murder inside the gates. Bribing could possibly work in this situation, or blackmail. I can't think of anything else but undoubtedly there's other stuff you can do too.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 17, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
Well in real life would you want someone stealing from you? I highly doubt it. ... I would assume people would not look kindly to being stolen from, especially since we are suppose to role play heavily in the game.
The character can do everything that's realistically in their power to deal with their problems, but the player behind the keyboard should keep roleplay in mind. There are circumstances where doing everything possible as a player to get a thief PC caught is *bad* roleplay. Imagine your PC is stolen from by a robed and masked thief. You get only a brief tiny glimpse with 'look' as the thief disappears into the virtual crowd. IC, your PC barely saw the thief and has almost no useful information to catch them. Codedly, the game just gave you their complete mdesc and equipment list. Your PC might be really upset about getting stolen from. Now you have a choice:
* Go spread around their full description because OMG THIEVES MY LOOOOOT!
* Roleplay the situation honestly and realize that your PC has no idea who stole from them.
What some of us regret is that the first one is way more common than it should be. Maybe even more common than the second.
On a general note, pickpocketing and thievery is also far more common in Zalanthas than on Earth. When I hear a PC complaining about a routine theft, I tend to think of them as a whiner, similar to if someone complained about people bumping into them on the sidewalk in real life. Pickpockets are like the weather. Anyone who thinks they're a big deal doesn't really get how the world works.
Also, it's pretty common that pickpockets have friends that can just flat-out kill your PC if they want to. Most PCs, if stolen from, should probably be feeling lucky that they weren't knocked out or killed for the rest of their loot. Most PCs certainly wouldn't think of going to law enforcement, not unless they had a specific friend or contact. Otherwise, they'd probably just get fleeced again by the soldiers, not to mention face potential reprisals from the criminals. The irate revenge fantasy (which tends to be the average PC response), in my opinion, is something that only really makes sense for Templars, Nobles, GMH family, and other overmoneyed, overpowerful PCs that are sufficiently unhinged and lacking in perspective that it makes sense for them to seek revenge for a minor theft.
Getting stolen from--- whether you can afford it or not, whether you were flashing your swag or not--- upsets people. Little upset to big upset, there is usually some kind of reaction in that vein. That is the natural state of things. That is something I encourage you to get over when it happens to you, and try to transform it into something exciting, like, an "Oh, shit," moment, or milk it into a story for a slow night at the bar, because I've done that, and made it neat and cool and all that, and not just, Ugh, DAMN IT.
Actually playing as a pickpocket will teach you worlds about theft that can't be explained here for spoiler reasons, if you're interesting in learning. Burglaring too I suppose but that's insanely dangerous and you may need to roll more than two to start understanding it.
Quote from: joyofdiscord on October 18, 2013, 09:52:51 AM
On a general note, pickpocketing and thievery is also far more common in Zalanthas than on Earth. When I hear a PC complaining about a routine theft, I tend to think of them as a whiner, similar to if someone complained about people bumping into them on the sidewalk in real life. Pickpockets are like the weather. Anyone who thinks they're a big deal doesn't really get how the world works.
I definitely feel like OOC opposition to the tough role that PC pickpockets play isn't congruent with the game's big professed themes: murder, corruption and betrayal. Having objects taken from your PC could be a bummer. Or, you could see it as a form of inclusion into the environment: look at you, you were robbed like the setting says Zalanthans are all the time! Welcome to Zalanthas!
Quote from: i love toilets on October 18, 2013, 03:15:17 AM
In this game, however, this world, theft and mugging and murder are daily occurrences which run rampant compared to Earth.
1. Of course I don't know, you don't know, that guy doesn't know, only the victim knows, and I, you, and that criminal don't care. This is Armageddon.
4. You've got some bite to your reply when there was none in mine. Upset you lost something? I get upset, too. However I think everyone who hasn't needs to get over it and treat pickpockets and burglars as flavorful, exciting additions to the game, not a source of butthurt.
Nothing is free, unfortunately. Handouts always comes with a price and some people will refuse handouts for this reason also. This is an extremely resource-strapped world. Although I've seen the occasional noble or other high-ranking pc shell out stuff to the unwashed masses for their own amusement because they are extremely powerful, can afford to indulge their expensive hobbies, and are either having some clean old-fashioned fun with the pitiful unwashed masses or are sending some kind of message, one I've seen a lot being, we are X powerful clan, and can give out monstrous amounts of Y and Z if we so choose without batting an eye/plus we're celebrating something.
What Earth do you live on where theft, mugging and murder is
NOT a daily occurrence? The only difference between the the real world and Armageddon, is one is real life and the other is made up, but one where you role play and act as if it is real, thus you would not take too kindly to someone pick pocketing you, a friend or an associate. I am not sure about the butt hurt, I am still an anal virgin after all.
I would hope there are some kind and caring ICs. Not everyone has to be a raving mad lunatic, thief or murderer. (Even if the world is so bleak and depressing.) I am not saying people have to run up a tall dune and start singing "The Silt Hills are alive, with the sound of Music...", but something other than a knife to ones throat every day.
I am assuming there is some kind of bounty system. If you see someone else getting mug can you not assist the victim, like a vigilante or at least a good citizen or are you even considered bad for helping. (Provided you did not out right kill the pick pocket?)
Quote from: joyofdiscord on October 18, 2013, 09:52:51 AM
The character can do everything that's realistically in their power to deal with their problems, but the player behind the keyboard should keep roleplay in mind. There are circumstances where doing everything possible as a player to get a thief PC caught is *bad* roleplay. Imagine your PC is stolen from by a robed and masked thief. You get only a brief tiny glimpse with 'look' as the thief disappears into the virtual crowd. IC, your PC barely saw the thief and has almost no useful information to catch them. Codedly, the game just gave you their complete mdesc and equipment list.
On a general note, pickpocketing and thievery is also far more common in Zalanthas than on Earth. When I hear a PC complaining about a routine theft, I tend to think of them as a whiner, similar to if someone complained about people bumping into them on the sidewalk in real life. Pickpockets are like the weather. Anyone who thinks they're a big deal doesn't really get how the world works.
Also, it's pretty common that pickpockets have friends that can just flat-out kill your PC if they want to. Most PCs, if stolen from, should probably be feeling lucky that they weren't knocked out or killed for the rest of their loot. Most PCs certainly wouldn't think of going to law enforcement, not unless they had a specific friend or contact. Otherwise, they'd probably just get fleeced again by the soldiers, not to mention face potential reprisals from the criminals. The irate revenge fantasy (which tends to be the average PC response), in my opinion, is something that only really makes sense for Templars, Nobles, GMH family, and other overmoneyed, overpowerful PCs that are sufficiently unhinged and lacking in perspective that it makes sense for them to seek revenge for a minor theft.
I figured if you looked at a masked man (If he was actually masked to begin with.) would only give you the short description anyway, that would make most sense. Thus "the lanky masked, golden haired elf wearing a red cloak" would be all that you get to see. As you mention that is how it is in real life most times. And maybe not even get to see the golden hair if their hood is up. I would never have thought you get to see the entire main description, unless you got to look at him after knocking him out or killing him. So when speaking to the militia I would assume saying "the lanky masked, golden haired elf wearing a red cloak", would be reasonably justified for IC purposes. Of course as I stated, the hood up would take the golden hair away and in my opinion any smart pickpocket would have a stash of less incrementing clothes near by to take the red cloak even from off them. Then it just depends on, who saw who changing or coming from where (If they even wanted to get involved if PC or was coded virtually) and if the militia even cares to do any detective work or even bothers to file a report etc.
As I stated in another reply to some one else, what Earth are you residing on? Pick pocketing, thievery and murder run rampant. You can not turn on the news with out hearing about it. Of course it depends in what country you live and what city, etc. But I would say you would be hard pressed not to find a country in which one, if not all three, do not occur on a daily basis and in some really bad parts, multiple times a day and that includes rape, torture, abuse against women, etc. This is more OOC than IC discussions and probably best left for another thread, but I hope you do realize it is not all sunshine and roses out side the game either...
And in all honesty I do not know how the game works yet, I am still learning, as it is so painfully obvious. But I have a vigilante mind set. We shall see how far it takes me.
Democracy doesn't exist in Zalanthas. Neither does benevolent dictatorship. Get modern politics out of your head. Vigilantes are cut down mercilessly, often violently, and sometimes silently, by the Sorcerer-King's minions - who are given permission to do so, and who have powers and resources to find out who you are, where you are, what you're doing, who you're doing it with, who you're doing it to, when, where, and how, AND who provided you with the tools to do all those things, and who THEY work for, sleep with, etc. etc. etc. One reason behind this: Who are you to say that our king's militia are incapable of doing their job? You're a nobody. Therefore - you insult the king's militia. And when you insult the king's militia, you insult the king's ability to pick his people. When you do that, you insult the king. Insulting the king is treason. Therefore, you are a low-life scum who has committed treason.
Commoners in both cities live under a reign of oppression; they are not -allowed- to be literate. Their lives are dependent on the whims of the king's minions, who are corrupt and really don't give a shit if you're trying to right a perceived wrong or not. Justice is defined by the ones who enforce it, and you have no say-so in the matter unless they decide to give you a say-so. And if they do that, your say-so better agree with their say-so. And even if it does, you're probably in for a world of hurt anyway. IF they let you live through it.
There are no knights in shining armor in Zalanthas. There are would-be knights in shining armor, but they die as quickly as they appear. Your right-fighter is fighting the wrong battle. He should be fighting for his next meal, because he has no "right" to eat.
Also - your masked man's sdesc would be:
The tall thin figure wearing a carved agafari mask.
Someone with their hood up would be:
The short and obese figure in a desert-camouflaged, hooded greatcloak.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 18, 2013, 03:53:10 PM
Democracy doesn't exist in Zalanthas. Neither does benevolent dictatorship. Get modern politics out of your head. Vigilantes are cut down mercilessly, often violently, and sometimes silently, by the Sorcerer-King's minions - who are given permission to do so, and who have powers and resources to find out who you are, where you are, what you're doing, who you're doing it with, who you're doing it to, when, where, and how, AND who provided you with the tools to do all those things, and who THEY work for, sleep with, etc. etc. etc. One reason behind this: Who are you to say that our king's militia are incapable of doing their job? You're a nobody. Therefore - you insult the king's militia. And when you insult the king's militia, you insult the king's ability to pick his people. When you do that, you insult the king. Insulting the king is treason. Therefore, you are a low-life scum who has committed treason.
Commoners in both cities live under a reign of oppression; they are not -allowed- to be literate. Their lives are dependent on the whims of the king's minions, who are corrupt and really don't give a shit if you're trying to right a perceived wrong or not. Justice is defined by the ones who enforce it, and you have no say-so in the matter unless they decide to give you a say-so. And if they do that, your say-so better agree with their say-so. And even if it does, you're probably in for a world of hurt anyway. IF they let you live through it.
There are no knights in shining armor in Zalanthas. There are would-be knights in shining armor, but they die as quickly as they appear. Your right-fighter is fighting the wrong battle. He should be fighting for his next meal, because he has no "right" to eat.
Also - your masked man's sdesc would be:
The tall thin figure wearing a carved agafari mask.
Someone with their hood up would be:
The short and obese figure in a desert-camouflaged, hooded greatcloak.
Sounds fun! ;)
If that is all the description that can be seen and then told to the militia, how is that not being realistic? Or you can still see the mdesc regardless?
If you LOOK at the person, you will see their Mdesc and their visible equipment (meaning - if their cloak is able to close, and is closed, you won't see their belt, or jacket, or any weapons or waterskins hanging off their belt, because the closed cloak obscures those wear-locations).
If you are in the room, and the person walks in, and you do not "look" at them - then you'll just see:
The tall and obese figure in the dark hooded cloak arrives from the west.
And when you type the word "look" by itself - without targetting anyone in particular, you'll see the room description, and anyone in it.
Really though - you should just enter the game. ALL of this stuff you're asking now, you can find out simply by entering the game.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 18, 2013, 04:30:01 PM
If you LOOK at the person, you will see their Mdesc and their visible equipment (meaning - if their cloak is able to close, and is closed, you won't see their belt, or jacket, or any weapons or waterskins hanging off their belt, because the closed cloak obscures those wear-locations).
If you are in the room, and the person walks in, and you do not "look" at them - then you'll just see:
The tall and obese figure in the dark hooded cloak arrives from the west.
And when you type the word "look" by itself - without targetting anyone in particular, you'll see the room description, and anyone in it.
Really though - you should just enter the game. ALL of this stuff you're asking now, you can find out simply by entering the game.
I have entered the game. And I have used the 'look' command. But I have never had anyone try to mug or pick pocket me so far, (That I am aware of anyway, perhaps they were really good...) so I was not sure how under those circumstance the game would allow for looking at someone who is purposely trying to mask themselves. After all, if you are going to rob a convience store, you do not put your mask on after you come in, use names (Or the correct ones anyway.) and take off your mask while inside. Heck, I doubt you would even drive to the store in your own car and or with your actual license plates to be seen, unless it was a spur of the moment thing which happens from time to time. I would assume the game, as techinal and realistic as it tries to be, would factor in code- man trying to mug
is masked and only the short description can be seen regardless what you tried to do, unless you subdued him or killed him and you unmasked/opened his cloak etc. A pick pocket on the other hand would want to look as normal as possible in a crowd, other wise you suspect they are going to do something they shouldn't, but a pick pocket generally does not try and shank you either, unless caught and backed into a corner.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 05:52:43 PM
I have entered the game. And I have used the 'look' command. But I have never had anyone try to mug or pick pocket me so far, (That I am aware of anyway, perhaps they were really good...) so I was not sure how under those circumstance the game would allow for looking at someone who is purposely trying to mask themselves. After all, if you are going to rob a convience store, you do not put your mask on after you come in, use names (Or the correct ones anyway.) and take off your mask while inside. Heck, I doubt you would even drive to the store in your own car and or with your actual license plates to be seen, unless it was a spur of the moment thing which happens from time to time. I would assume the game, as techinal and realistic as it tries to be, would factor in code- man trying to mug is masked and only the short description can be seen regardless what you tried to do, unless you subdued him or killed him and you unmasked/opened his cloak etc. A pick pocket on the other hand would want to look as normal as possible in a crowd, other wise you suspect they are going to do something they shouldn't, but a pick pocket generally does not try and shank you either, unless caught and backed into a corner.
Hehe. You're getting to the kind of thing that is really best discovered by playing the game itself, I think.
I will say that you cannot look at hidden people who you have not detected, however.
QuoteSounds fun!
If that is all the description that can be seen and then told to the militia, how is that not being realistic? Or you can still see the mdesc regardless?
If you are hooded, completely covered, facewrap/mask, etc. Disguinishing marks covered, like say a tattoo on your neck - thats covered with a scarf. And you commit a crime, and the PC tells a militia member about your mdesc, a rule has been broken. Its code abuse. Unless your PC is a gicker with X-ray vision he could not see the intimate details of what said perp was wearing or what he looked like. This is a pretty common thing with playing pickpockets and stealy types. All players should be mindful of it, both victim and thief. Saying the guy was tall, or short, etc, is fine though.
Quote from: Wastrel on October 18, 2013, 08:20:07 PM
QuoteSounds fun!
If that is all the description that can be seen and then told to the militia, how is that not being realistic? Or you can still see the mdesc regardless?
If you are hooded, completely covered, facewrap/mask, etc. Disguinishing marks covered, like say a tattoo on your neck - thats covered with a scarf. And you commit a crime, and the PC tells a militia member about your mdesc, a rule has been broken. Its code abuse. Unless your PC is a gicker with X-ray vision he could not see the intimate details of what said perp was wearing or what he looked like. This is a pretty common thing with playing pickpockets and stealy types. All players should be mindful of it, both victim and thief. Saying the guy was tall, or short, etc, is fine though.
Why not fix the code to begin with and when someone is fully covered the Mdesc no longer functions? Makes sense to me, then do not have to worry about certain people RPing or not and everything works out fine. Has it been tried before and failed or no one has bothered with it. I heard something about reigns on wagons being buggy, thus is no longer used, but I have no idea.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 09:20:23 PM
Why not fix the code to begin with and when someone is fully covered the Mdesc no longer functions? Makes sense to me, then do not have to worry about certain people RPing or not and everything works out fine. Has it been tried before and failed or no one has bothered with it. I heard something about reigns on wagons being buggy, thus is no longer used, but I have no idea.
Well, because there isn't a set rule for what is in someone's mdesc, and there are certainly
some things you can tell about someone by looking at them when they're cloaked/masked/etc. I'd agree that it's not the cleanest bit of code we have in this game, but I don't think it's the most problematic either. Just don't go describing the generic, face-wrapped man you see down to the color of his eyes and that he was missing his front tooth, and I think you'll be alright. (=
Quote from: FreeRangeVestric on October 18, 2013, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 09:20:23 PM
Why not fix the code to begin with and when someone is fully covered the Mdesc no longer functions? Makes sense to me, then do not have to worry about certain people RPing or not and everything works out fine. Has it been tried before and failed or no one has bothered with it. I heard something about reigns on wagons being buggy, thus is no longer used, but I have no idea.
Well, because there isn't a set rule for what is in someone's mdesc, and there are certainly some things you can tell about someone by looking at them when they're cloaked/masked/etc. I'd agree that it's not the cleanest bit of code we have in this game, but I don't think it's the most problematic either. Just don't go describing the generic, face-wrapped man you see down to the color of his eyes and that he was missing his front tooth, and I think you'll be alright. (=
I see your point of just faking it, but wouldn't it make more sense to force it where you can not see the mdesc while he/she is perfectly masked with hood up and cloak shut etc.? Then there can be no qualms.
We've had the discussion before and the imms just dont want to bother coding it
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 02:59:37 PMAs I stated in another reply to some one else, what Earth are you residing on? Pick pocketing, thievery and murder run rampant.
Yes, of course I'm aware, I lived within a notoriously violent part of the world for a few years. And in places like those, in my experience, the reaction to being robbed is usually much as I described -- relief at being alive and safe rather than gathering up a posse to hunt down their stuff (though I can tell you a true story of the latter type too, which involves a harpoon). However, many players of online games don't have that same experience. They are used to being able to keep their stuff most of the time, maybe even have reasonably trustworthy police, etc.
Quote from: Wastrel on October 18, 2013, 10:00:20 PM
We've had the discussion before and the imms just dont want to bother coding it
That's 32 flavors of untrue.
Once upon a time, masks used to obscure a PC's mdesc, and replace it with the masks's mdesc. It was an actual disguise. Once upon a time, it was so horribly abused, that they finally said enough - and took that away. There were still a few of those mdesc-covering masks when I played a Kadian family member, and they were turned into non-desc-covering masks while I was playing her. Now, they obscure -only- the sdesc, just like hoods obscure the sdesc.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
Quote from: FreeRangeVestric on October 18, 2013, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 09:20:23 PM
Why not fix the code to begin with and when someone is fully covered the Mdesc no longer functions? Makes sense to me, then do not have to worry about certain people RPing or not and everything works out fine. Has it been tried before and failed or no one has bothered with it. I heard something about reigns on wagons being buggy, thus is no longer used, but I have no idea.
Well, because there isn't a set rule for what is in someone's mdesc, and there are certainly some things you can tell about someone by looking at them when they're cloaked/masked/etc. I'd agree that it's not the cleanest bit of code we have in this game, but I don't think it's the most problematic either. Just don't go describing the generic, face-wrapped man you see down to the color of his eyes and that he was missing his front tooth, and I think you'll be alright. (=
I see your point of just faking it, but wouldn't it make more sense to force it where you can not see the mdesc while he/she is perfectly masked with hood up and cloak shut etc.? Then there can be no qualms.
A person's head is not the only thing that's described in a person's mdesc. Something that obscures the entire mdesc, is obscuring the fact that his BODY is muscular, that he has a missing HAND...that he walks with a limp..that any visible skin on his body is darkly tanned, that his EYES are orange (remember, if his eyes were covered, he wouldn't be able to see out), that he has inks running up and down each ARM...that he has an enormous pot-belly, that she has melon-tits, that he is so skinny he looks like he might tip over with a stiff breeze...
It makes absolutely zero sense for a mask that is worn on the face to make it impossible to tell what all the REST of this person looks like, when someone is making the effort to LOOK at him.
Quote from: NewPlayer on October 18, 2013, 02:59:37 PMAs I stated in another reply to some one else, what Earth are you residing on? Pick pocketing, thievery and murder run rampant.
Quote from: joyofdiscord on October 18, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Yes, of course I'm aware
Quote from: joyofdiscord on October 18, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
However, many players of online games don't have that same experience. They are used to being able to keep their stuff most of the time, maybe even have reasonably trustworthy police, etc.
What we were basically trying to tell you is that Zalanthas is a majorly corrupt and desperate world, where pickpocketing, theft, mugging etc. are extremely common, in case that hadn't been clear before you asked about stuff.
... A harpoon, really?
Quote from: Lizzie on October 18, 2013, 10:41:53 PM
A person's head is not the only thing that's described in a person's mdesc. Something that obscures the entire mdesc, is obscuring the fact that his BODY is muscular, that he has a missing HAND...that he walks with a limp..that any visible skin on his body is darkly tanned, that his EYES are orange (remember, if his eyes were covered, he wouldn't be able to see out), that he has inks running up and down each ARM...that he has an enormous pot-belly, that she has melon-tits, that he is so skinny he looks like he might tip over with a stiff breeze...
It makes absolutely zero sense for a mask that is worn on the face to make it impossible to tell what all the REST of this person looks like, when someone is making the effort to LOOK at him.
It would make perfect sense providing the perpetrator was not naked. If he is masked you wont know what his face looks like and most likely even his eyes if he is looking out from slits or through a black veil. Take into account he would be completely bundled up in a cloak that is closed with hood up and most likely would be wearing gloves of some type.
I know in code, under certain conditions, things can be changed when the criteria is met. So if in full regalia of disguise, you can not see anything but what he or she wants you to see. Typing 'look' no longer gives you the mdesc or what would normally be accepted as the mdesc. Now maybe only a line or two at best and what can be seen as equipment is visible.
As far as the other little touches you mention, that all depends on if it is code based or player story driven based. I know tats are code based, if you have a tat on your chin and or a scar on your cheek and you only wear a half mask, those will be visible, but with a full mask, they would not be. However, if you do not want people to use the 'look' function in a way to identify someone in that particular circumstance, than take the option to even do so away by coding it impossible to see the mdesc when the thief is wearing appropriate attire/disguise.
So I am not sure how it use to be coded, as you mentioned before, but I am saying it isn't just a mask that prevents someone from seeing the thief's identity, but the whole shebang.
Quote from: i love toilets on October 19, 2013, 06:25:08 AM
What we were basically trying to tell you is that Zalanthas is a majorly corrupt and desperate world, where pickpocketing, theft, mugging etc. are extremely common, in case that hadn't been clear before you asked about stuff.
... A harpoon, really?
Cool beans. Understood.
And as far as the harpoon incident is concerned...
Gang went to terrorize home owner, home owner went whalling...