Quote from: eska on Today at 04:27:49 PM

Quote from: Patuk on Today at 04:14:18 PMOh, so it should have some restrictions. Cool. Now we're just discussing the particulars, which is part of what's been going on in this thread.

It is not restricting the PK, it is restricting the so-called "toxic" player you all talking about. If your PC got PKed and it is against the rules, your next PC will still be able to get PKed, but not likely by the same player.
I thought it was easy to understand. Sorry about it, if it was not. English is not my mother language.

This is what the nerds like to call a distinction without a difference. If staff say you can't do a thing, and will tell you off for it, and (hopefully) offer some means of restitution to discourage the griefers, those are in fact restrictions. I have no idea why you'd argue against anything else, when I see nobody in this thread trying to propose different systems.

Quote from: Patuk on Today at 04:14:18 PMOh, so it should have some restrictions. Cool. Now we're just discussing the particulars, which is part of what's been going on in this thread.

It is not restricting the PK, it is restricting the so-called "toxic" player you all talking about. If your PC got PKed and it is against the rules, your next PC will still be able to get PKed, but not likely by the same player.
I thought it was easy to understand. Sorry about it, if it was not. English is not my mother language.

Ugh, some things never change. Fundamentally, this shouldn't be a problem for seasons- except that it is. If Armageddon is generally considered a collaborative experience where the playerbase gets involved with a broader story together, it makes sense to structure character approvals and groups so that psychopathy is strongly discouraged. Just about every functioning society has taboos and laws against similar pathologies, whether you call them wendigo sickness or cyberpsychosis. Maybe the Red Fangs didn't, but there's a reason they got stamped out by the other elves. Antagonist PCs can exhibit such behaviors, of course, but after rare approvals they should expect short lifespans and relatively limited success. Most RPI muds have some sort of protection against this, actually, and I'm surprised Armageddon doesn't.

Conversely, you can say "hey, solve it IC scrub" and maybe the players in Allanak will enforce the no-PK rule. Possibly with PK, if we get right down to it. But at that point you have to be honest about the broader point of your setting, and be very good at balancing your codebase. There's a reason gameplay functions are most hotly contested in heavily competitive PVP servers.

I do not believe that Armageddon would exist long without PK.  PK (permadeath) adds that dimension that sets us apart. I will trust the staff to keep an eye on things and sort out players that abuse PK.  All loving and respecting each other isn't a realistic answer nor likely to ever happen.  Trust but verify.  The staff sees the big picture.

Quote from: eska on Today at 03:17:13 PMWhat my point by giving these examples is, we shouldn't restrict PK in game.

Well that seems a little-

Quote from: eska on Today at 03:17:13 PMIf one thinks that they got killed by a "toxic" player, they can report it and let the staff take care of that player.

Oh, so it should have some restrictions. Cool. Now we're just discussing the particulars, which is part of what's been going on in this thread.

Quote from: eska on Today at 03:17:13 PMMost of those "toxic" players and staff has already be driven away. So trust your staff now.

Get me a piece of that crystal ball of yours, man, because I'd love to be as much of a psychic as you are. How do you know this? How does anyone?

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!! My wife's go to saying.  Works well in real life as well as Armageddon.

Quote from: eska on Today at 03:33:10 PMDon't just read the last sentence please.

On the other hand, what is wrong with 'as long as PKing is an easy solution to my problems, I'll do it'? This is the main reason for a death in Zalanthas, and this is valid RP.
Is there someone causing me problems? Yes.
Will they stop anytime soon? No.
Can I kill them or get them killed? Yes.
Mantis head for them, no more headache for me. The problem is solved.

I read the entire thing, I just didn't have anything to say about the rest. I'm not looking to talk in circles, and I'm not trying to be rude on that, I've just already talked a lot in this thread.
Also valid rp isn't always good rp, you should always strive to be better, especially if the bare minimum of being 'valid' creates a negative experience for other people. It's valid for me to swear at a child who's being annoying, that doesn't mean I should do it.

Quote from: Kavrick on Today at 03:22:47 PM

Quote from: eska on Today at 03:17:13 PMWe all want this game to continue and grow. We cannot succeed it, if we cannot trust each other and the staff.

It doesn't help the trust situation when you have some people in the community that say 'as long as pking is an easy solution to my problems, I'll do it'.

Don't just read the last sentence please.

On the other hand, what is wrong with 'as long as PKing is an easy solution to my problems, I'll do it'? This is the main reason for a death in Zalanthas, and this is valid RP.
Is there someone causing me problems? Yes.
Will they stop anytime soon? No.
Can I kill them or get them killed? Yes.
Mantis head for them, no more headache for me. The problem is solved.

Quote from: eska on Today at 03:17:13 PMWe all want this game to continue and grow. We cannot succeed it, if we cannot trust each other and the staff.

It doesn't help the trust situation when you have some people in the community that say 'as long as pking is an easy solution to my problems, I'll do it'.

Quote from: Kavrick on Today at 02:28:09 PMThe new rules are incredibly reasonable and well-written.

That is why I said there are rules and trust the staff.

Even though I sound like a player who kills other PCs, in my many years of playing time I killed less PCs than the count of my PCs which ended up PKed.
I am not arguing that one should kill in every opportunity. But when I read posts in this thread, I kinda feel that there are people who support the idea in every situation one should give the other party another chance first. There are situations where you can choose to do it. However, this should not become a rule for PK. If you need to die and you die, just go with it.

In one case, a red robed killed my Guilder PC in a locked room using his half-giant guard to subdue me. I was furious like hell, because I was loyal and other shit and he gave me lame excuses for the murder. He probably had his own reasons. I just gave a quick break to smoke a cigarette and started creating the next character. Did I do so because I was satisfied with how well the scene played? No. My PC was supposed to die sooner or later, or I was gonna store it at some point. So I didn't report this PK.
Another hunter I played was killed at Abili Pah by two desert elves when resting. They jumped at me out of the blue and I had no weapons drawn. I panicked, instead of fleeing I drew my weapons, got bashed and mantis head in a minute. They probably planned their attack, wayed their timing, used thinks and feels. I never saw any part of it. For them it was a well-played scene. For me it was mantis head in a minute. I was furious and angry. Smoked a cigarette and went for the next character. I didn't report this PK as well.

What my point by giving these examples is, we shouldn't restrict PK in game. If one thinks that they got killed by a "toxic" player, they can report it and let the staff take care of that player. Most of those "toxic" players and staff has already be driven away. So trust your staff now.

We all want this game to continue and grow. We cannot succeed it, if we cannot trust each other and the staff.