Initially, when I heard the power supply was fried, I thought, "Damn, I have spare power supplies, too bad I couldn't donate one faster than they will be able to replace it." I figured that forgoing the internet and spending the extra $10 a power supply might cost in a story would surely be worth the convienence of having the game up in a timely manner. When I heard that there were going to be more upgrades, I thought, "Sure, but why not just get a power supply and get the thing running in the mean time?". Apparently, I don't have a clue, because the next thing I hear is this:
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So, good news is, Ginka is repaired to its pre-power supply failure state. It runs, and I could technically put it back up now, but I'm going to make you all wait in the name of improvements.
I don't know about anyone else, but I would vastly prefer to have the game running and then taken down for another brief period than simply continue to wait. I feel like people who contribute and help pay for these types of things do it precisely so that the game isn't down for ten day stretches.
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Like I said, all that stuff's here, I just have to install it and get the OS reinstalled for Monday.
Maybe I'm totally insane, but I would install the OS on the new drive (don't all techies have multiple PCs lying around?) while the game was still running, then copy everything over and do the switch in a very brief period of time.
I simply cannot understand why we are being subjected to all this needless waiting and delay. Has this effected the building or work on Arm2, or is that all hosted elsewhere? I just can't understand the rational behind keeping Ginka down. We can't even email staff while there is possibly time for detailed responses.
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Sorry again about the delay. Complain to UPS.
Yeah, I'll complain here as well. WTF?
Put Ginka up already.
:evil:
Well you can't really install the OS on different hardware and just swap the drives later. That will cause all sorts of problems.
Also, you don't pay anything for this game. You may donate, but that doesn't entitle you to anything. That's what a donation is.
Relax, go outside tomorrow, read a book or something.
I can understand your frustration PF but I don't think that complaining about that thing is really a good thing if you want to keep on the good side of the Imms, accusing the dude that buys the hardware and installs it is never a smart move, no matter how long it takes or what the situation is.
Coming from a guy that is always walking the thin line with his posts and always regretting posting half the things I do after I do it, even -I- know better than that :)
Oh, no, I might anger one of the almighty staff... I guess I should just go bow my head in a corner. Or not.
I have a 'right' to complain on this forum, if I so choose to. Just as my complaint can be censored, if the staff so chooses. My complaint is that we are all waiting for no reason. I feel it's a valid complaint, whether I have contributed or not. I just happen to think it is infuriating that we have been waiting for 10-days for something that could've been easily remedied within a single evening.
I suppose not everyone has machines with the same hardware lying about, and I really have no idea what kind of linux Ginka is running... Nonetheless, the game could've been up for days until the new hardware came, and easily taken back down while the conversion was -actually- being undertaken. 10 days to replace a fucking power supply is completely absurd.
Sorry if I feel a bit jerked around at this point, perhaps the smarmy tone of the announcement set me off a bit, perhaps I'm just an asshole.
As much as I would love to have the game back up, I've actually gone back and reconnected with several of my favorite hobbies that I had put aside after my addiction to crackageddon took over. You know, small things:Work, cleaning the house, seeing the sun again and realizing that light bulbs are artificial, shaving off my beard and getting a haircut, scheduled another date with a fine young woman, reconnected with several good books, picked up and dusted off a list of goals I'd forgotten about, and found something I'd thought I'd lost:
My life...Damn I'm pathetic.
...Oh well, guess I'll have to wait a couple of more days before I crawl back into my cave and once again begin the pagan rites of worship before my mystic glowing alter that gives me visions of a desolate, dying world and the pitiful struggles of the mortals that live there in.
P.S. Hope the staff takes all the time they desire to get the game running at better efficiency.
psionic fungus, I feel your pain. It's just one of those things you have to accept if you want to play Arm, which has something of a history of downtimes (including the dreaded Saturday downtime until recently). After more than a decade of operation, I can imagine things lose their urgency. I think we should be pleased that the high-ranking staff retains some enthusiasm after all this time instead of getting tired and shutting the game down.
Corruption, Betrayal, Embezzlement: The 'Armageddon 2007 Downtime' E! True Hollywood Story.
Trust me, I've been playing for over a decade, I know plenty about downtimes. I've waiting in queue to play. I've waited for weeks for a -normal- character application to get approved. I've played on that god-forsaken ROM that was put up from time to time to try to satiate the playerbase.
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I think we should be pleased that the high-ranking staff retains some enthusiasm after all this time instead of getting tired and shutting the game down.
I honestly would rather see the game shut down than run half-assed, if that is what it comes down to... There are plenty of people who have abundant amounts of time and energy for the game, if they can replace people who don't, they should.
The other issue is that this is hampering the development of Arm2. I was only speculating, but Ammit has just posted something mentioning his work on cendi was hampered by the loss of Ginka. I see absolutely no reason why Saikun cannot have the server running for at least the Staff to read/answer e-mails and work on developing Arm2.
Once again, 10 days for a power supply is utterly ridiculous.
This isn't about the house-work I can do while the game is down. It isn't about other hobbies, or anything else for that matter. It's about the -fact- that Saikun is keeping the -server- down on a whim, and doesn't seem to have too much interest in getting it up soon...
You have the parts but an hour or two's worth of work is still going to take three more days? Puh-lease.
Get someone else to handle the hardware if Saikun doesn't have the time or inclination.
Hi,
I haven't been an active staff member for quite some time now (a year?) but after reading this I had to pipe up.
This summer has been my first chance to play Arm with any regularity for, well, a year. So I truly feel your pain.
The thing is: the machine was fried. It smelled strongly of burning when turned back on. It COULD NOT have been running all this time with the new power supply.
My totally non-staff opinion? Stop being an ass. Immortals miss the game too.
Everyone get a grip.
Seriously, do somthing other than Arm. Its healthy. Don't bitch at volunteer staff members who are spending their own money to fix a game that is absolutely free and is just that: A Game.
They can take years if they want to, because its their project.
We, as players, are entitled to nothing, donations included. As MM pointed out, they are just that, donations. Nothing is expected of it. You are doing it out of the kindness of your heart. In fact, they are anonymous for a reason.
Arm is a great game.
It will be back on monday, thats in 48 hours. Hey, maybe it'll be up on tuesday. Thats not far off. Bashing Saikun for taking his time and spending it on -your- game is ludicrous, in my honest, humble opinion. The Staff are human, just as we are, and are doing their best in this sort of situation to bring the game back up. I am doubting it could have been brought up sooner, knowing the Staff's dedication to this game.
*shrug* Yeah I'm taking a trip next week so I won't even get to play when it goes back up harhar.
Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. I've caught up on a lot of work, heh, and the game will be waiting when I get back.
The players may contribute money and things to the game, but the real truth is that the Imms actually are the ones physically working on this stuff. I couldn't begin to tell you how long you'd have to wait if it was me the game had to rely on to come back up, even if I knew a lot about hardware and could do it.
Go do the galaxy thing its awesome.
Taking a break can be nice, Psionic Fungus. I like to play armageddon, but sometimes I feel like if I don't log in I might be missing a Very Important Plot Point. Though I don't treat Armageddon like a job that I must be present for, if I decide to do some real life stuff rather than play, I'll be wondering what I missed when I got home. Much like missing an episode of my favorite television show, I will regret not having been around to see it. But thanks to this break, nothing is going on in Zalanthas and we aren't missing a thing. We can pick up where we left off when the game comes back up, and nobody's suffered any lasting hurt.
Tune in Monday, for the Season Premier of Armageddon: The Final Chapters.
PF: You don't like it; suck it up or leave.
Seriously, these are all volunteers, doing this because they love it. Bitching in their faces is somewhat like complaining to the guy who just gave you $10 because he couldn't spring for $20.
If this is how you treat the 'almighty staff' then I, for one, have no respect for you.
Quote from: "Tisiphone"PF: You don't like it; suck it up or leave.
To be fair, this is a little harsh. If someone invites you into their home as a guest, don't you expect to be treated with a little respect, instead of an attitude of "this is my house so you don't count for shit here"?
I'm not saying that is how the staff treats players, but it is what this black and white, all or nothing type of statement suggests.
Now, reasonable guests won't make asses of themselves complaining loudly and endlessly and making scathing demands of their host. But if you were a host and your guest was unhappy some way, which would you prefer? To hear about it and have a chance to straighten things out, or for the guest to just shut up, leave, and never accept another invitation?
While I don't fault PF for voicing an opinion, I think it was expressed in a tactless and condescending way.
A little gratitude and patience go a long way.
Sometimes people have to vent, I understand this. I'm disappointed as well to have the game down, but it will be back up. Saikun has the thankless job of maintaining the server, year after year. Unlike those of us who have the ability to log in at our leisure, Saikun gets stuck working on repairs when stuff happens. Sometimes breakdowns happen when it is least in sync with stuff happening in real life. We all work around it as best as possible.
Truth is, this breakdown came at a good time for me. I needed the break and work was tremendously hectic and stressful last week. I've had a healthy breather from the game and I'm enthused and anxious to start jumping back into things.
1st: A 550W+ server grade power supply for a dual Xeon board is $120, not $10. The last one lasted us 4 years of 24/7 use, and this one should last at least that long. We shelled out an additional $300 for other stuff at the same time.
2nd: Ginka is a 120 mile round trip from where I live now, and I'm not going to drive down there to put it up for 24 hours then take it down again. It's been my experience that teasing the players by having the game up for a day, then down again for two does more damage than just having one contiguous break. Besides, gas is crazy expensive in this tax-happy blue state I live in, and nobody's donating towards that.
3rd: This is the first time we've been down for hardware (non router) since we bought this machine in 2003. See number 1. That's a pretty good track record. We're taking this time to replace everything else that moves in Ginka. Hard drive and all the fans. The CPU fans were literally hours from burning up.
4th: The CPU fan/heat sink combos didn't arrive until Friday afternoon, and were put on/tested Friday night. I wasn't going to use Ginka before then, since I didn't feel like cooking the CPUs with the bad fans.
5th: We're changing the hard drive type and putting in a new controller card, which would cause the OS to puke if I just tried Ghosting it over. If I was putting in a exact replica of the old drive, and keeping it on the old controller, than yes, I could just have imaged it over. But we're not, and as someone else said, you can't just go swapping drives that are looking for different boot devices, etc.
6th: A lot of the Arm2 code development is being done not on Ginka, and there's also a chat server set up for the imms, so most of the stuff is being worked on during the down time.
7th: I'm posting these updates so people know where we are, and aren't kept in the dark thinking it's another 30 day mystery blackout. I'm sorry if you're disappointed with the news, but that's the way it is.
-S
You don't live with Ginka?
Not anymore. Ginka stayed put, I moved.
-S
Thanks Saikun for taking the time to get Ginka back up and running. I think most of us appreciate your work and time invested in doing it.
I have to say that these love it or leave it attitudes are about as encouraging as hicks running around with flags chiding the same bullshit behind Dubya. People have the right to complain, while they still contribute to a community, in fact complaints can be healthy - people aren't positive all the time so get off his ass.
Second, I too am frustrated, because I enjoy playing the game from time to time. It doesn't mean if I'm playing sometimes I'm not enjoying my life or reading books or going outside while occasionally playing. I don't see why the game has to remain off for the remainder of the weekend when people have the most time to play. He brings up some valid points.
I'm also kind of sad when I see IMMs appear begrudged at working on this game or people act like other are entitled to a certain this or that. I know for one I would be happy to help run Ginka and the game in anyway I could because it means alot to alot of people.
Quote from: "Saikun"...a bunch of stuff...
Okay, so there we have it. Things aren't so simple as they appeared.
Thanks for your efforts on our behalf, Saikun.
Quote from: "Bebop"I have to say that these love it or leave it attitudes are about as encouraging as hicks running around with flags chiding the same bullshit behind Dubya. People have the right to complain, while they still contribute to a community, in fact complaints can be healthy - people aren't positive all the time so get off his ass.
Second, I too am frustrated, because I enjoy playing the game from time to time. It doesn't mean if I'm playing sometimes I'm not enjoying my life or reading books or going outside while occasionally playing. I don't see why the game has to remain off for the remainder of the weekend when people have the most time to play. He brings up some valid points.
I'm also kind of sad when I see IMMs appear begrudged at working on this game or people act like other are entitled to a certain this or that. I know for one I would be happy to help run Ginka and the game in anyway I could because it means alot to alot of people.
Uh....I don't see any of the IMM's being 'begrudged' at working on this game. In fact, I have -never- heard of an Immortal complain about workload or plots or coding or anything. In fact, I have witnessed more Immortals pour their -life- into this game, that is completely volunteer-run, and put more money than I make in a single month most times into upgrading hardware and software. I do not see Saikun as being 'bedgrudged' but rather informative, when people make biased, vague, and ignorant comments about what is going on. He merely stated what -was- going on. Would you drive for 2 1/2 hours plus as well to check in on the server, repair it knowing it probably won't be a full repair, just to have to drive back right when you get home because it fries again?
Saikun's point is definitely somthing to remember: Y'all would be -way- more pissed if the game kept going up and down, because it was being maintained, rather than keep it offline until -all- repairs are made, and it is 99.9% positively going to work for another 4 years.
Quote from: "Saikun"6th: A lot of the Arm2 code development is being done not on Ginka, and there's also a chat server set up for the imms, so most of the stuff is being worked on during the down time.
Really?
Does that include building of Arm 2 as well?
I'm really really interested in Rasesanos's mud building tool.
Well, joygasm. I'm glad that's all settled.
I just wanted to point out that the jist of my complaint is this... Saying things like:
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I'm going to make you all wait in the name of improvements.
...Can seem pretty smarmy. When I read things like that, after I've been patiently waiting for a week, I tend to get a little bit annoyed. I want to be smarmy back. And then I am.
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1st: A 550W+ server grade power supply for a dual Xeon board is $120, not $10. The last one lasted us 4 years of 24/7 use, and this one should last at least that long. We shelled out an additional $300 for other stuff at the same time.
I meant the $10 you save ordering over the internet... Not that the total cost was $10... But whatever, it's always a matter of cost vs. quickness in situations like these.
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2nd: Ginka is a 120 mile round trip from where I live now, and I'm not going to drive down there to put it up for 24 hours then take it down again. It's been my experience that teasing the players by having the game up for a day, then down again for two does more damage than just having one contiguous break. Besides, gas is crazy expensive in this tax-happy blue state I live in, and nobody's donating towards that.
Seriously... This just sucks. It's very unfortunate that you have to maintain a machine that is an hour drive from you. I'm sorry.
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3rd: This is the first time we've been down for hardware (non router) since we bought this machine in 2003. See number 1. That's a pretty good track record. We're taking this time to replace everything else that moves in Ginka. Hard drive and all the fans. The CPU fans were literally hours from burning up.
4th: The CPU fan/heat sink combos didn't arrive until Friday afternoon, and were put on/tested Friday night. I wasn't going to use Ginka before then, since I didn't feel like cooking the CPUs with the bad fans.
5th: We're changing the hard drive type and putting in a new controller card, which would cause the OS to puke if I just tried Ghosting it over. If I was putting in a exact replica of the old drive, and keeping it on the old controller, than yes, I could just have imaged it over. But we're not, and as someone else said, you can't just go swapping drives that are looking for different boot devices, etc.
Yes... It's a good track record. And yes, the upgrading needed to be done. Not to be an ass, but I'd still prefer a speedy local purchase over internet savings.
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6th: A lot of the Arm2 code development is being done not on Ginka, and there's also a chat server set up for the imms, so most of the stuff is being worked on during the down time.
I just saw Ammit complain and figured that there must be things Staff can't access.
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7th: I'm posting these updates so people know where we are, and aren't kept in the dark thinking it's another 30 day mystery blackout. I'm sorry if you're disappointed with the news, but that's the way it is.
Updates are good. Waiting isn't. Being told you're waiting because of someone's whim is annoying. Perhaps a 120 mile drive isn't just 'a whim', but when phrased "I'm going to make you all wait in the name of improvements". You may have to expect some animosity.
In light of the details, I'd like to commend Saikun for having the patience to respond rationally, and for dealing with a server that is 60 miles away. I'd also like to propose a fund-raiser for getting the machine moved somewhere in house when Arm2 goes up, so any issues can be resolved in a speedy manner.
Just so you all know, I'm adamantly against waiting for essential hardware replacements to be shipped, and/or housing the server an hour's drive from anyone with access.
And a little something for the haters...
Quote from: "mansa"Quote from: "Saikun"6th: A lot of the Arm2 code development is being done not on Ginka, and there's also a chat server set up for the imms, so most of the stuff is being worked on during the down time.
Really?
Does that include building of Arm 2 as well?
I'm really really interested in Rasesanos's mud building tool.
Apparently your reading between the line skills are getting rusty.
From the "What are you gonna do now that Armageddon is down?!" thread...
Quote from: "Belenos"It will give me time to code without feeling guilty about neglecting my clans.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"I just saw Ammit complain and figured that there must be things Staff can't access.
I didn't mean to come off as complaining! Honest. I was just saying there's stuff I can't access (although there's other stuff I can access :)).
Wow. I didn't read this thread until now, because I only skim for topic titles that interest me. What a compelling read it's been though. Psionic fungus' complete meltdown was a real page-turner. You had to be looking for smarmy to find smarmy there.
It's been a welcome and refreshing breather, and I have a feeling there's going to be a surge of motivated playing once the game comes back up.
Does anyone know what "smarmy" actually means?
Quoteexcessively or unctuously flattering, ingratiating, servile, etc.: the emcee with the smarmy welcome
Not quite sure how that applies to "I'm going to make you all wait".
He might've meant "snarky" or "snappy" or "snotty."
But, when life gives you smarmy, make smarmalade!
I do have an abundance of snark. One must filter through that when I post.
As far as the local purchase vs shipping, all we've got around here is a CompUSA. And not a good one. And they don't stock socket 604 Xeon heat sink/fan combos. Nowhere does around here. And they didn't have the power supply I wanted. So since I had to get that stuff shipped, I figured I'd do everything in one whack to my credit card. They didn't tell me the heat sinks had to be hand-crafted by remote Aleutian islanders, then shipped around the NorthWest passage by dug-out canoe and scantily clad warrior babes riding polar bears. So yeah, I paid for everything to be here by Tuesday/Wednesday, and it didn't get here until Friday.
-S
Quote from: "Saikun"They didn't tell me the heat sinks had to be hand-crafted by remote Aleutian islanders, then shipped around the NorthWest passage by dug-out canoe and scantily clad warrior babes riding polar bears. So yeah, I paid for everything to be here by Tuesday/Wednesday, and it didn't get here until Friday.
-S
Well, next time you do something like this, get pictures. They'll be worth the three-day wait.
I'm sure they'd be hot until the frostbite set in.
Polar bears don't get frostbite.
Uh...
Quote from: "Salt Merchant"
Does anyone know what "smarmy" actually means?
Quote
excessively or unctuously flattering, ingratiating, servile, etc.: the emcee with the smarmy welcome
Not quite sure how that applies to "I'm going to make you all wait".
Perhaps he does not know what "unctuously" means? :twisted:
Where do you get a definition like that, anyhow?
Quote from: "Merriam-Webster"
1 : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness <a tone of smarmy self-satisfaction -- New Yorker>
2 : of low sleazy taste or quality <smarmy eroticism>
Quote from: "The Free Dictionary"
1. Hypocritically, complacently, or effusively earnest; unctuous. See Synonyms at unctuous.
2. Sleek.
Quote from: "Wiktionary"
1. Falsely earnest, smug, or ingratiating.
So... Like, yeah. Smarm on, Smarmeladers.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"Uh...
Quote from: "Salt Merchant"
Does anyone know what "smarmy" actually means?
Quote
excessively or unctuously flattering, ingratiating, servile, etc.: the emcee with the smarmy welcome
Not quite sure how that applies to "I'm going to make you all wait".
Perhaps he does not know what "unctuously" means? :twisted:
Where do you get a definition like that, anyhow?
Quote from: "Merriam-Webster"
1 : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness <a tone of smarmy self-satisfaction -- New Yorker>
2 : of low sleazy taste or quality <smarmy eroticism>
Quote from: "The Free Dictionary"
1. Hypocritically, complacently, or effusively earnest; unctuous. See Synonyms at unctuous.
2. Sleek.
Quote from: "Wiktionary"
1. Falsely earnest, smug, or ingratiating.
So... Like, yeah. Smarm on, Smarmeladers.
Smarmy: S-ma-r-my
1. This Post.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"..a bunch of stuff...
So you're saying Saikun is sleek? :lol:
...Saikun is sexy
Saikun is a polar bear!
You all were clearly not drinking enough schnapps in the early 90's.
She still haunts my dreams.
-S
Rumple Minze Girl (http://cgi.ebay.com/1990-woman-warrior-polar-bear-art-Rumple-Minze-print-ad_W0QQitemZ110149282716QQihZ001QQcategoryZ35657QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting)
I absolutely cannot drink peppermint schnapps, or ice 101, or anything alcoholic with a peppermint flavor. My body refuses to forget how peppermint vomit burns like nothing else.
Any ETA on the time of day for Ginka's revival? Afternoon, evening, late at night? Just wanna know if I should stay home.
After too many times drinking Ice 100, I'm with Moe on this one, no peppermint schnapps for me... unless I'm spiking my hot cocoa.
That's because you're french.
If you weren't, you'd slobber all over that scantily mail clad woman with a bear between her legs.
It's going to be evening/night, US eastern time. There might be a short period of the machine being up but not the game, while the coders re-link everything to the new OS. But that doesn't normally take long.
-S
Saikun, I just wanted to post my many thanks for all you've done. My husband builds computers and I've seen him go through hell even with several places to buy computer parts around us. It's not just a ten dollar difference either. Half the time he can find twice the part for half the price online.
As for PF, I think Slipshod worded it best. Complete Meltdown. I don't know, I've been in the military 5 years now and waiting, like anything else, is a well practiced skill. I just cannot understand getting pissy about things that stamping your feet will do nothing to change. Even if Saikun did word things snarkily, with a thick coating of the smarmalade... and I -was- a little put off by some of the wording I'll admit, He's been doing this for so long I have faith in him taking care of ginka to the best of his ability.
I miss armageddon. I miss my character. But damn, I did forget how much fun I could have with my head removed from Zalanthas for more than an hour at a time. And the added benefit of knowing I'm not missing anything has been awesome.
Cheers Saikun. :P
I agree with everything Saikun said really. A thing like this cannot be rushed. I also agree with whoever said there will be plenty of motivated players playing when it comes back up. I was certainly getting worn down and now I can't wait to start back up. It's just a game, and I don't like to wait either, but hey, an imms gotta do, what an imms gotta do.
Quote from: "mansa"...Saikun is sexy
Having met Saikun in RL more than once, I can safely say: this is untrue. He is not sexy.
He is many things: cool, fun, entertaining, a great guy.
But sexy he is not...
(I'm sure he has equally unkind things to say about me, too)
I got to go on a vacation without worrying about my underlings getting slaughtered without my inspired leadership.
Thanks, Ginka!
Quote from: "Halaster"Quote from: "mansa"...Saikun is sexy
Having met Saikun in RL more than once, I can safely say: this is true. He is sexy.
He is many things: cool, fun, entertaining, a great guy.
But sexy... he is a guarentee
Awwww!
You misspelled guarantee when you misquoted Halaster, mansa.
I wonder how long you're going to keep my dripping sarcasm in your sig, too.
So, the game is supposed to be up Monday... is there some kinda time frame because the wee hours of my bed time are approaching.
Quote from: "Saikun"It's going to be evening/night, US eastern time.
I haven't seen any specific hours, but this was said, just in case you missed it.