Think about it, as a child, you play hide and sneak, as a teenager, you got pretty good at sneaking past teachers and your parents, In college, that one person you had an awkward moment with once...
So why isn't Hide a generic skill? I can appreciate some will never have a knack for it as much as others, but even a half-giant has some chance of successfully avoiding a casual glance by stepping behind that large statue, or behind that tree.
EDIT TO ADD:
To explain further, I think Hide should be added to all guilds, and for the non-stealth guilds, capped at a lower cap than a sub-guild that applied it would achieve.
It would be nice if everyone could hide in certain rooms (no empty corridors), but everyone could also no-skill scan and find them.
(already aware you can use both these without the skill, just I don't think they do anything)
Scan will do stuff. I have scanned out VERY easy to scan out mobs by scanning with a PC who did not have the scan skill.
I think the cap is just very low. To the point that you will basically never be able to scan out the more sneaky of the sneaky-sneaks.
Hide ... I don't know. It might be like the pick lock skill ... where you can try but the game will just put you in an indefinite skill delay without ever giving you a conclusion.
Quote from: Kol on January 05, 2012, 02:06:41 PM
So why isn't Hide a generic skill?
The same reason that many other abilities are not generic skills: we have a guild/subguild system in this game. You pick and choose advantages and disadvantages. If you want your half-giant to hide, you have the ability to select his guild and subguild prior to character generation. We are not going to make every skill available to every character, and this is no exception.
Quote from: Nyr on January 05, 2012, 02:55:26 PM
Quote from: Kol on January 05, 2012, 02:06:41 PM
So why isn't Hide a generic skill?
The same reason that many other abilities are not generic skills: we have a guild/subguild system in this game. You pick and choose advantages and disadvantages. If you want your half-giant to hide, you have the ability to select his guild and subguild prior to character generation. We are not going to make every skill available to every character, and this is no exception.
I was in no way implying all skills should be given to all classes, at all, I love the guild/subguild system the game has, I simply think that everyone has the ability to hide, and the world should reflect it. However, your answered with staff policy, and I appreciate the stand-point.
Because hide is extremely powerful in this game.
there are options to the proposed version of hide. Choosing northern side of meleth's circle over southern to avoid meeting someone. Using back alleys to cross the city. Choosing the longest route. Keeping your hood on and praying they dont notice you passing by. And so on.
...you're mocking me, aren't you? XD
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on January 05, 2012, 04:20:44 PM
Because hide is extremely powerful in this game.
so is scan.
I just remembered something about hide, so it is a bad idea. :P
hide is a horrifying power that seems to level up pretty quickly. while i like the idea of everyone being able to get novice or mid-apprentice hide, the idea of a sorceror or warrior or heaven forbid a ranger with poison arrows using it and aiming for me with their crazy which will make me die.... yeah.
Quote from: Cind on January 06, 2012, 10:58:48 AM
hide is a horrifying power that seems to level up pretty quickly. while i like the idea of everyone being able to get novice or mid-apprentice hide, the idea of a sorceror or warrior or heaven forbid a ranger with poison arrows using it and aiming for me with their crazy which will make me die.... yeah.
I know when I think of a defiler, my first thought is "my God. What would he do with
hide?" ;)
And heaven forbid a ranger be able to move silently and remain unseen in the wilderness...those wascally wabbits...
Quote from: Armaddict on January 06, 2012, 04:38:38 PM
Only when 'looks at you' is some sort of horrifying phrase to you. Scan really...is not that big of a deal. At all.
Except that presumably you were hiding because your toe-to-toe chances were poor.
the shriveled, elven male speaks to you as he leans back with a lone eyebrow arching up slowly and the wrinkles on his face shifting about while nodding in a sage like manner: "I've seen things you roundears wouldn't believe. Attack witches blurred and afire off the shoulder of Xyrtix'Za. I've watched a Wyvren glitter in the dark atop a towering spire. All those moments will be lost to you, like the blind among beauty.. Time to scan."
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dI4wsdLmJJI/TZLm75p-yuI/AAAAAAAABqw/Szfu-_DdBJI/s1600/blade+runner+roy+batty+time+to+die.jpg)
Quote from: Dakota on January 06, 2012, 05:08:00 PM
the shriveled, elven male speaks to you as he leans back with a lone eyebrow arching up slowly and the wrinkles on his face shifting about while nodding in a sage like manner: "I've seen things you roundears wouldn't believe. Attack witches blurred and afire off the shoulder of Xyrtix'Za. I've watched a Wyvren glitter in the dark atop a towering spire. All those moments will be lost to you, like the blind among beauty.. Time to scan."
Very little circumstance of using hide is based around the avoidance of combat. Or rather, very little situations in which case someone can see you result in combat, unless you're in one of those random cool situations where you're actually in a bad place you shouldn't be. But that doesn't happen often, unless you're being careless, and, frankly, asking for someone to scan for you.
Quote from: Wolfsong on January 06, 2012, 05:11:18 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dI4wsdLmJJI/TZLm75p-yuI/AAAAAAAABqw/Szfu-_DdBJI/s1600/blade+runner+roy+batty+time+to+die.jpg)
+1
Quote from: Armaddict on January 06, 2012, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Dakota on January 06, 2012, 05:08:00 PM
the shriveled, elven male speaks to you as he leans back with a lone eyebrow arching up slowly and the wrinkles on his face shifting about while nodding in a sage like manner: "I've seen things you roundears wouldn't believe. Attack witches blurred and afire off the shoulder of Xyrtix'Za. I've watched a Wyvren glitter in the dark atop a towering spire. All those moments will be lost to you, like the blind among beauty.. Time to scan."
Very little circumstance of using hide is based around the avoidance of combat. Or rather, very little situations in which case someone can see you result in combat, unless you're in one of those random cool situations where you're actually in a bad place you shouldn't be. But that doesn't happen often, unless you're being careless, and, frankly, asking for someone to scan for you.
Elf Rutger Hauer disagrees with you. Its based on what your PC is, what your PC is like personality wise, has done, is doing and his or her habits. Elf Rutger Hauer and his scan boosting pigeon has all the answers.
I think scan is fine, but hide is overpowered and invisibility is underpowered. I would think it would be easier to spot someone ducking behind a table than someone who is completely invisible.
Not that this is entirely on topic, but as someone who was master scan in Allanak for awhile I'll say this.
Invisible people would have been better off with city hide if I wanted to find them. Which is weird considering the whole using the very forces of nature to aid your hide attempt against using that fat guy or the good looking woman to distract from your shady self.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on January 06, 2012, 05:41:15 PM
I think scan is fine, but hide is overpowered and invisibility is underpowered. I would think it would be easier to spot someone ducking behind a table than someone who is completely invisible.
I agree here - it's always blown my mind that it's easier to spot an invisible person than a hidden one.
I disagree personally.
For the most part, hidden people you do not see. Either you are not looking where they are, or they are covered by something.
Invisibility is different. Or I guess it depends on how invisibility works. Is it bending of light? Transluscency? What? Whatever way it is achieved, the person is looking straight 'at' the invisible person. And so it's logical to assume he can see irregularities. Shifting of the air, displacements, strange alteration of sight of things that you see "through" the invisible things. I believe the way it is handled is actually very very fitting.
Hide though, is different. Since it assumes you do not see the person at 'all'. You're not even looking in that direction, or if you are, you are seeing whatever it is that is covering the hider whole.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on January 06, 2012, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Armaddict on January 06, 2012, 04:38:38 PM
Only when 'looks at you' is some sort of horrifying phrase to you. Scan really...is not that big of a deal. At all.
Except that presumably you were hiding because your toe-to-toe chances were poor.
Scan is great unless your goal is to kill someone with master hide. :P
While I actually enjoy the change of the topic from 'give hide to everyone' to hide/invis/scan issues. I think the entire thread is kind of ... weirdly pointless :D
Elf Rutger Hauer agrees this thread is pointless..
And in his wisdom says that hide, scan and invis are perfectly OK as they are.
Of course he would, he's a dirty elf.
Quote from: Wolfsong on January 06, 2012, 06:47:48 PM
Of course he would, he's a dirty elf.
A Dutch dirty elf.
Quote from: Dakota on January 06, 2012, 06:47:22 PMAnd in his wisdom says that hide, scan and invis are perfectly OK as they are.
Relative to Master Hide, I still feel that Master Scan is a little weak. Someone with city hide should not be nigh impossible to spot for someone with master wilderness scan, in the wilderness, but I can think of a -very- recent incident where that was the case. It may have been because of a few factors that aid hide, but I can't think of any equivalent factors that aid scan.
That's not to say scan in general is weak, it's -really- fantastic. Just that Hide, which it is meant to work against, is so strong at higher levels that it pales in comparison.
Quote from: Celest on January 06, 2012, 08:30:37 PMbut I can't think of any equivalent factors that aid scan
kuraci night-vision goggles
Quote from: jstorrie on January 06, 2012, 09:04:06 PM
Quote from: Celest on January 06, 2012, 08:30:37 PMbut I can't think of any equivalent factors that aid scan
kuraci night-vision goggles
Made from Mantis eyes.
That's always been the gripe with hide and scan. There are just way more hide boosting equipment pieces in the game than there are scan boosting ones. So max scan vs max hide + lots of hide boosting gear = invisible sneaky.
*shrug*
Staff has known of the complaint for awhile. It's likely that they can see more information than we can, and believe it to be balanced already. Or they would have changed something by now.