Idea to improve gameplay -- limited message system.

[hcwalker]

This has probably been the subject of past threads, but here goes...

Overall I am very satisfied with the manner in which players communicate in Armageddon.  I like that  'who' doesn't tell you the names of everyone who is on, and I think the psionics/contact system overall is excellent.

A failing of the game, particularly in the context of permadeath, is that players who wish to do things together and advance significant in-game plots often do not log on at the same time or play sporadically enough that they are unable to communicate in-game.  How many times have I logged on and wondered "gee, I haven't spoken to him in weeks and we had such great plans, I wonder if he's dead, etc...?."

I think a useful function would to be able to contact players regardless of whether they are off-line and at least leave a brief message.  Perhaps after successfully contacting a player who is not on-line the message would read "<insert player's name> is asleep and unable to respond to your message."   Then you could do something like...

psi [or some other similar command word] I did this and this and our plans are advancing as anticipated.  OOC  We'll meet with the others on Wednesday 8 PM CST.

The next time the person who was contacted logged in they would receive a message...

You were contacted during your sleep with the following messages, or whatever.

This would of course require significant coding and might be difficult because of name redundancies, etc...  but I strongly feel it would improve gameplay and plot advancement.

What does everyone think?

[Akaramu]

I love the idea, at times I have been very frustrated with the inability to find people online to coordinate something or tell them about something terribly important, when realistically, it should have been possible to reach them somehow.

The problem I see with this system is that it would allow people to check if someone is logged in or not... on the other hand, failing contact 6 times in row does the same thing. Maybe some sort of seperate "psi buffer" could be implemented that stores way messages no matter if the person is offline, or online and AFK or disconnected. Have you ever tried to notify a PC of something terribly important, and after 5 successful psi messages a staff member told you that the person is disconnected?

If this buffer was implemented, it would need to be limited in length / number of messages that a single PC can send to another, to avoid spam, and force people to be spare with it.

[Delirium]

What about PCs that have the same names?

[wizturbo]

This would really help advance a lot of plots...but the method isn't too great.

I really think a "communications" merchant house would be the best solution.

Go to your local "Mindbenders Union" and collect your messages *grins*

Make it strictly an NPC organization, and just have it be a merchant house consisting of many scribes, who take messages and you can visit one of their shops in the major cities to retreive messages for a fee.  I think House Nenyuk could potentially provide this service as well, since they already basically have the facilities for it.

Could be something like this:

To send:
message <codename> <message you want delivered>
Costs sid.

Receive:
retreive <the name/codename>
Costs sid.


So basically you'd have to swap codenames with certain people that they can leave you messages under.  This would allow anonymity, and -also- allow for spies to intercept these messages by learning the codeword!

[Delirium]

Now that I like.

If you trusted Nenyuk to get in on all your dirty little secrets...

[Vettrock]

I think the biggest problem is how you would Identify the person you are trying to reach.  Characters have been known to have the same name, and to give out false or nicknames.  Perhaps, Nenyuk could rent in addition to houses and bank accounts, a mailbox or something such.  So you would go to the message center and say I want to leave a message for 659, they would take the message and put it in the box.  You would then show up later and check if there are any messages in the box.  They could charge for leaving the message as well as picking it up.  I think this would overcome all of the disadvantages and reason why the way messages isn't as practical.  You can still leave messages for dead people, (they would have a hard time picking them up) and therefore couldn't be abused in that manner.  The messager could contact you via the way to say that you had messages waiting when you logged in.

Yes I know its illegal for commoners to write, but The Nenyuk bank has slave scribes in it, (at least according to the description)

[Bestatte]

1) if the person you're trying to find is dead - how to send a message to a dead person, without your finding out that VERY IC info that he's dead?

1a) Theoretically, once a character is dead, their bank account and any coded reference to that character is deleted from the codebase. He ceases to exist.

2) If someone -wants- people to think he's dead - it would be WAY too easy to abuse that system by trying to send him a message. What if he's around but his barrier is up, or is otherwise inaccessable via the Way? I can think of several plotlines that would be totally ruined because of something like this.

3) There used to be different echoes for people who were logged out of the game. It was abused horribly and the echoes were removed. As much as I hated the idea at the time, I've grown to really appreciate it.

I don't like the idea of being able to pass messages in this manner, at all. If you need to send OOC info to set up login times, there's e-mail, AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, MSN, Trillian, PM, IRC, the various Clan forums for clan-related RPTs, etc.

[Gilvar]

I don't so much agree to the first post as I do to the psi-buffer sort of thing.

If you are alive (on-line or not) it would be neat if you could be contacted, even when not online, and then a person would deliver a message. Because technically if your alive and awake you'd be receiving messages, even if not online.

Then maybe when you next log in, you could review way messages before the MOTD or something, and they'd be like...

On Waleuk Day #whatever, in the Early Afternoon,
The bald man sends, We will be travelling to Allanak next week, meet at the Sanctuary at High Sun.

On Nekrete Day #whatever, in the Late Evening,
The bald man sends, Seems we have missed you. We'll meet up later then.

The only problem is that people may think your online and just ignorning them, and then get subsequently upset. But that seems to be the only way to do it without implying your not online.

[Tlaloc]

Whats wrong with hiring a friend, underling, assistant, or goon to take the messages for you? Also: I'm personally amazed at the oft-unused advantage that nobles have, that is writing: if you have a buddy-noble who logs in during peak hours, but you don't...write them a letter with your instructions.

If you're worried about it...seal the letter.

This becomes harder with lower status PCs, who are illiterate...but I think you can still hire buddies to help deliver messages for you.

[sjanimal]

It seems like every single post in this thread brings up very good points.  I'll post something as soon as I have something important to contribute to this.

[wizturbo]

I should have elaborated further on what a "codename" is.

A codename would basically be that "mailbox", however you can use whatever name you want.

Lets say you want to tell your assassin friend you want Lord Fancy Shoes dead.  Your assassin friend said, whenever you want to leave a message for him, use the codeword Redrum as the name.

Nenyuk doesn't care who Redrum is, its just the word you need to collect whatever the message is.

Now lets say master spy Joe happened to learn this codeword Redrum, they could use that to retreive someone elses messages, or even use it to send anonymous messages!

Something like, "I know your relationship with that Kadian merchant...i'll inform the templarate if you don't pay me 1,000 sid. Send a response to "blackmail" to arrange payment"  *cackles...damn i'm evil*


You could make these codewords public knowledge, like...if your a merchant you could just use your real name so customers can contact you.  Each person can have unlimited codewords they use, if they have the desire.  

Does this put Nenyuk in a situation to intercept information, yup, sure does...but everyone would know that, so they could use codes if necessary, or just not use this service for secretive things.  I'd imagine this system would be mostly used for business stuff.

[sacac]

I like the psi-answering machine idea.

As for the communications house.. it wouldn't have a place IG. IMHO.
Because commoners can contact each other all the time.
And the nobles and templars wouldn't let a bunch of commoners learn how to read and write for the benefit of the other commoners (With exceptions).
Example of that would be the garden in allanak, obviously strains the commoners and does little to the nobility.

[wizturbo]

I like the psi-answering machine idea.

As for the communications house.. it wouldn't have a place IG. IMHO.
Because commoners can contact each other all the time.
And the nobles and templars wouldn't let a bunch of commoners learn how to read and write for the benefit of the other commoners (With exceptions).
Example of that would be the garden in allanak, obviously strains the commoners and does little to the nobility.

It would not be used by commoners as much.  Most wouldn't be willing to pay the fees for use of the service.  To a noble or wealthy merchant however, a fee is a drop in the bucket.

[X-D]

I'm gonna go with gilvar on this one.

Being logged out is OOC, the PC is still alive and in the world, therefor, should still be contactable.

The problem of people thinking the pc was ignoring them? No problem that I see, all of mine have at one time or another, for whatever reason and if you got the messages when you logged on you would be able to think up excuses:)

The only problem I see is in the case of dead pc's, You can't have contact so and so after they are dead. So the way, once again could be abused to find out if somebody was dead.

Though, a good way to solve that I think would be for the current message "Something is blocking your telepathy" to be expanded to cover more, maybe even make it the default message for any NON-mindbender who fails a contact for any reason. Non-mindbenders, not being expert in the way would simply have to try again, with no clue as to the reason, which, is as it should be.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Something is blocking your message.

You contact *blankityblank*.

You sense that you can send a message. (This latter should fire whenever you make your psi skill roll, whether there is actually a person there or not. Even if that person is dead, you should be able to do it. The current message you get, which says...) You cannot reach their mind. (...this message should be alternated with the message in green above. That way, you never know if they are alive, dead, on-line, off-line....)

[hcwalker]

Thanks for all the interesting replies.  Keep them coming, I'm still formulating my thoughts as well.  

It is clear that a "psi buffer" type of function would require some coding to sort out player's real names, who is dead, etc...perhaps with a codeword or something similar.  I think it is realistic to know through the way when someone has died.  If you are proficient in the way, you should know when your pal is no longer there.  Remember just because a player is logged out it doesn't mean they're not in some virtual place in the game resting or sleeping or whatever.  

I initially liked the idea of the message-exchange house, however I agree with some posts in that it wouldn't be that useful for the "real life" Zalanthas scenario where commoners would contact each other with the way whenever they felt like it.  Also most people can't read, so would some Nenyuki dude be sitting alone in a sound-proof room barking out messages to people who paid?  Although it would be cool to imagine setting this up, it just doesn't make as much sense to me.

[X-D]

I think it is realistic to know through the way when someone has died. If you are proficient in the way, you should know when your pal is no longer there. Remember just because a player is logged out it doesn't mean they're not in some virtual place in the game resting or sleeping or whatever.

Though it would probly be more realistic to know, there is a playability issue a stake also.

Besides -proficient- is a relative term, Proficient for the average joe might be less then 1% of a mindbender's abilities, I see nothing wrong with a normal way user not being able to tell if somebody is alive or dead.

[Angela Christine]

Also: I'm personally amazed at the oft-unused advantage that nobles have, that is writing: if you have a buddy-noble who logs in during peak hours, but you don't...write them a letter with your instructions.

It might help if Noble Estates had mail slots.  Writing a message doesn't help if you have no way to get it to your noble buddy.  It can be hard to even leave a note for your own cousin who lives down the hall, if his bedroom door is locked.  You can try dropping it outside the door, but then anyone could take it and it gets "swept up by the housekeepers" if the game reboots before your buddy logs in, because the area outside a door is usually not a save room.  A mail slot would let you push something small (like a scroll or a letter bomb) from one room into the room on the other side of the door.  Hopefully the room the slot drops into is a save room.


AC

[wizturbo]

The communication system I'm suggesting would do more then just allow leaving messages.  It would allow for ANONYMOUS communication.  Something I think would be greatly benefital to various intrigues in the game.

Also, Nenyuki have a great many scribes working for them, as Banks tend to have a lot of paper work so the resources for this are basically already there.

[Tlaloc]

Noble houses do have libraries, storage rooms, and bedrooms, however, all of which are probably safe places to leave a note. It could be very easy to set up a system where Noble's A and B always check the spice-box, stashed on the bookshelf for letters to one another. There is a chance that someone could happen by and swipe the letter, sure...but then thats the risk you take when you leave notes unattended. I, for one, don't believe there should be a 100% chance of leaving a message to someone that is un-interceptable by anyone else.

Also, if you don't like the idea of leaving a note unattended...you can always give it to one of your PC aides, to give to your buddy in question.

Furthermore: letters leave an interesting record of IC events as they pass. It could be fun to read back two RL years later, over some notes that were written in-game between a pair of Nobles, plotting an assassination (or something).

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree with Tlaloc. Use your damned writting skill. Geez!

[Quirk]

Thanks for all the interesting replies.  Keep them coming, I'm still formulating my thoughts as well.  

It is clear that a "psi buffer" type of function would require some coding to sort out player's real names, who is dead, etc...perhaps with a codeword or something similar.  I think it is realistic to know through the way when someone has died.  If you are proficient in the way, you should know when your pal is no longer there.  Remember just because a player is logged out it doesn't mean they're not in some virtual place in the game resting or sleeping or whatever.

Not really. It's entirely possible for someone to raise some manner of barrier to the way to prevent themselves being contactable. I very much doubt, given that a measure of ability to do this is in everyone's possession, that a person skilled in the way being unable to contact a friend would automatically assume that they were dead - at least, not until a fairly long period of time had passed in which all attempts to reach them had failed.

Oh, and as an addendum, I've had characters who have for IC reasons tried to stall communications with others using similar routes, and I'd have been very annoyed if they could contact me in my absence when in game I had my mind locked tight against intrusions.

Quirk

[Akaramu]

I agree with Tlaloc. Use your damned writting skill. Geez!

What writing skill?

The majority who is affected by this problem cannot read or write. Nobles can order their aides to relay messages, the average commoner is out of luck.

[Delirium]

Noble houses do have libraries, storage rooms, and bedrooms, however, all of which are probably safe places to leave a note. It could be very easy to set up a system where Noble's A and B always check the spice-box, stashed on the bookshelf for letters to one another. There is a chance that someone could happen by and swipe the letter, sure...but then thats the risk you take when you leave notes unattended. I, for one, don't believe there should be a 100% chance of leaving a message to someone that is un-interceptable by anyone else.

FYI, something very similar to this has been done IG and worked very nicely. It can be done.

[Forest Junkie]

I agree with Tlaloc. Use your damned writting skill. Geez!

What writing skill?

The majority who is affected by this problem cannot read or write. Nobles can order their aides to relay messages, the average commoner is out of luck.

Oh well? People have played around it without much gripe for over ten years. I'm sure you can as well.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I was talking to the same folks that Tlaloc was talking to. The rest of you commoners can scurry around in the dirt like little tregil, using the barbaric Way. We of more noble blood will indulge in our blood-given right to pen words on paper.

[Akaramu]

I agree with Tlaloc. Use your damned writting skill. Geez!

What writing skill?

The majority who is affected by this problem cannot read or write. Nobles can order their aides to relay messages, the average commoner is out of luck.

Oh well? People have played around it without much gripe for over ten years. I'm sure you can as well.

Hello? The entire thread is about discussing an idea that some of us like. Are you not in favor of discussing anything? No one was whining or complaining.

And yes at times there has been much gripe, I've seen players take long breaks because of frustration with this problem.

[spawnloser]

I've been frustrated by not being able to get messages to people...so I figured out a way to get messages to people.  I know of one clan that has a solution for this issue that I helped the clan IMM come up with and test.  I don't know if it is the same one Delirium is thinking of, but that could indicate that there are ways to go about this for more than one or two clans.

[Gilvar]

I think clans and nobility are an exception from this. There is a limited ability through clan boards and IC message boards for clans to arrange and coordinate play time for special events and other nescessary meetings. So of course the suggestions in this thread arn't as valuable to them.

[spawnloser]

Well, I can see the value of something for a non-clanner...but if we're only trying to come up with ideas for non-clanned people, that AUTOMATICALLY means that writing notes and having them delivered is completely out of the question, as nobles and merchant family members are the only people that can read and are clanned from the start.

[Naiona]

At least one clan has been using a written message system with success for a couple real life weeks now.  Of course, you have to be literate to use it, which limits it severely.

[Delirium]

Actually, my example was just a case of two literate characters setting up a place to leave notes to keep each other informed with, even though they rarely got to actually speak in person.

[Trenidor]

[Again...too lazy to read other posts]

As much as I think it would be a good idea, I think we dicussed this a while back about a answering machine kinda thingy.

Anyway, the results turned down the idea.

I would rather see the message mail system that is at the begining, used currently for staff to player mail, to be avalible for player to player mail. Unfortunately, even that wouldn't work because of too much ooc info spreading.

Anyway, I don't see any other way to do this but: When you meet a player, and you are planning something big, the best thing to do is exchange email, when they die, you just don't respond to any of their emails and eventually they understand.

bla bla bla I have no say, bla bla just some useless imput bla bla

[Savak]

The problem with bringing back "mudmail" for player-to-player communication is a practical one as well, because it requires targeting not only to the character name but also to the account name -- and neither of those do I think a person should HAVE to give out in order to arrange further communication.

In most cases, if you need to send messages back and forth this can be done in-game, or at least messages can be sent via other PC's or clan/house boards.  In the relatively few cases in which this isn't so, messages can usually be forwarded via a staff member.  Personally, I think the vast majority of messages can and should be sent in-game, even time arranging messages -- because really, it's an IC message often translated into OOC terms (see ya next Nekrete, aka Monday 9pm).

We've seen numerous cases of people abusing the ability to send "ooc" messages to one another, and this is easy enough as it is (email, irc, AIM, MSN, etc. etc.), versus seeing vanishingly few cases in which sending an out of game message to someone is necessary.

-Savak

[Akaramu]

Well, I can see the value of something for a non-clanner...but if we're only trying to come up with ideas for non-clanned people, that AUTOMATICALLY means that writing notes and having them delivered is completely out of the question, as nobles and merchant family members are the only people that can read and are clanned from the start.

Even in clans the communication can be a problem... for example when people dont even sign up for the clan board, and everyone missed the fact that they did not, or it is something only a specific player should know, not every little employee who can read the board.

I found that emailing over the clan imms is helpful, but might turn into too much extra work for them if the play times of several key PCs are too diverse. I had the idea of a clan NPC who whispers specific messages to specific people and is updated regularly, if I have time I will develop this idea more.

[Kalden]

I'm very much in favor of the psi-buffering idea. I hate inconsistency, especially where it's not necessary. As long as characters are alive, they should be contactable by the Way. The Way messaging offline would be helpful for both gameplay and realism.

As far as Quirk's point about raising barriers, even if you have a barrier raised, you're still contactable. You're just not messageable. So someone would know you're alive and around.

All barrier really seems to do, in my experience, is lower spam and probably prevent mindbenders from getting at you. You could ignore the spam, or if it's really so important, a toggle could be made.

[Kalden]

*mutters* Doublepost.

[spawnloser]

Um, Kalden...not 100% correct there, but I'll let you and everyone else find out IG how.

Back to Akaramu, yes, there are GDB forums for clans, but there are IC Boards in game as well, that you don't have to 'subscribe' to and can just look at.  At least one clan has more than one board so that you can post something for these people and something else for those people...and then you can go post something on the clan's GDB forum as well.

This is potentially more realistic than the an NPC that whispers messages only to certain people.  Having a board allows messages to spread, which will happen if not told directly to the person you are talking to.

[Kalden]

So the biggest problem with the psi-buffer idea is that it will allow a few messages to slip through the barrier? Can barriers be put up during sleep? Are they dependable enough to be up all the time? *shrugs* It seems like a very small problem to dump on a very good idea, and a toggle could likely be coded(say, if you log off while your barrier is up). I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

The biggest problem I see with the idea is the amount of coding involved. It's not really abusable - the Arm pbase is responsible enough to use it ICly. Even if they weren't, they're smart enough not to twink it, because it would likely be logged. Instant-messaging is used to twink regularly, I'll bet, and this has the potential to reduce that.

[Lazloth]

So the biggest problem with the psi-buffer idea is that it will allow a few messages to slip through the barrier?

The "biggest problem" will be identifying the recipient, n'est ce pas?
Just not worth it imho.  Use PC go-betweens.  Use written skills.

[Tlaloc]

What happens if your character is asleep while offline? What happens if they get incapacitated? What happens if they get shit-faced drunk? What happens if they just want some privacy, to s3x0r thier F-ME PC mistress? What if you're dead? What if you're dead, and a Sorcerer is using your undead body for his own evil uses?

What if the PC's you're trying to contact are online...only you just don't know it?

I think all of those are reasons alone why a psi 'buffer' would probably be alittle unworkable, at least from an IC standpoint. Sure, you character -should- be able to get messages when they're conscious...but thats only assuming you have a 100% chance of 'contact' working all the time anyway.

With the way I understand this buffer proposal is working, I would know, with almost 100% certainty, when a PC was online, or not, just by the mere fact that I might or might not get a message sent through. I don't think this is feasable, really, nor really something people would want. Psionics isn't a 100% thing (for most people). Its unreliable, hard to use, uncomfortable. There is a reason why it takes away 'stun' at a steady pace.

I don't think you need to be in a clan, or fabulously wealthy, or use fancy boards, or writing to be able to take messages to someone who doesn't play when you do.

[Gilvar]

I think the point is that currently it takes much more effort then should need to be taken to get in contact with someone who would technically be in the world. Sure the proposed plan may have kinks, but I think that anything is a better alternative then just trying endlessly to contact, or work through a network of people (which may not even be in-character for that person) to have a message delivered, or any of the number of other possible,  yet silly, ways an independant can arrange things with others.

[X-D]

Well, one could always change the way contact works completly.

contact templar hardnose

You fail to touch the way.

contact templar hardnose

You feel the subtle contact of the ether of the way

psi Yo! I saw you diddling that kank last night.

You send the message through the ether of the way.

You are drained from the strain of holding the way.

(templar hardnose)

You feel a nudging of the way.

A scarred elf sends to a telepathic message through the ether: Yo! I saw you diddling that kank last night.
==========================================

This would allow for a psi buffer and would NEVER give away if somebody was alive or dead, logged on or not, awake or asleep, barriered or not.

I could also think of some interesting mindbender skills to go with it, but am not gonna talk about them here.

Though, it would require that an nickname/alias line be added in char creation and no keyword use on contact...maybe even allow a more refined version if you happen to know somebodies -real- name...a tighter link as it would be. This would allow real names to hold more power in game.

[Akaramu]

Back to Akaramu, yes, there are GDB forums for clans, but there are IC Boards in game as well, that you don't have to 'subscribe' to and can just look at.  At least one clan has more than one board so that you can post something for these people and something else for those people...and then you can go post something on the clan's GDB forum as well.

I probably havent made my point clear. Okay, again. Some things are not to be spread / be heard by everyone. Actually, with my current role, -a lot- I deal with is not to be overheard by 80% of the virtual and NPC, and in some cases not even all of the PC population. And sometimes, it is very very urgent. And very IC to want a specific person to know about it -immediately- or something terrible might happen.

Seriously, would you post "person XY has been acting suspicious and has been watched, these are the results" on the clan board where that person reads the message as well?

In all the clans I've been in, few actually used the IC board. There was like one message per RL month, at most. Hardly anyone checked the IC boards regularly because there was almost never anything new on them. Maybe your experiences were different, I dont know.

It depends a lot on the clan, and the role within that clan. My little commoner PCs with common everyday jobs they shared with hundreds of others never had to urgently forward stuff back and forth.

[spawnloser]

I do understand, Akaramu.  I completely do, but if you want to pass a message from your character to another, the ONLY ways to do so realistically that would have noone else find out would be to speak to that person directly.  I'm sorry, but there are ways for information to get out...people can overhear, get a copy of the letter, torture someone into talking, and etc.

[Quirk]

General agreement with Tlaloc; originally had posted something here on the verge of IC-sensitive which I later rethought the wisdom of adding.

[Akaramu]

I do understand, Akaramu.  I completely do, but if you want to pass a message from your character to another, the ONLY ways to do so realistically that would have noone else find out would be to speak to that person directly.  I'm sorry, but there are ways for information to get out...people can overhear, get a copy of the letter, torture someone into talking, and etc.

Exactly. And if you dont see someone on for RL weeks because play times differ, but realistically you should be able to talk after an IC week, it can be frustrating. Thus I favor the idea of a psi buffer system.

[spawnloser]

Having found out something in game, about the Way...I'm not sure how this psi buffer system could go in without requiring certain other things to be analyzed quite well.  I would be in favor of the idea...but I would not expect them to put it in any time soon or at all, for that matter.

[UnderSeven]

As far as the way letting you know if someone is dead or not, or actually online, it actually USED to work that way.  If said player wasn't on you got a different message, it was abused.. EXT.  

No, I actually don't like this idea at all.  The way is all knowing enough as is, if someone doesn't want to be found, in order to pull it off they have to REALLY know the mechanics of the way and how to makethemselves unreachable, because lets face it, barrier doesn't do the trick very well considering contact is used so much more often anyway.

The only way I'd be in favor of something like this being implemented is if the BARRIER skill was given a higher cap for regular people so that they could have greater success using it to appear non existant.  

Then again, I think that should be the case anyway.

[wizturbo]

I still don't think the way should be used to solve this problem.

Clans have the boards.  If your not in a clan, you could OOCLY request contact information if your involved in an indepth plotline with someone.  

Adding a complicated psionic ability could do more harm then good.

[Chac]

I'd expect the existance of mindbenders and less conventional Way skills complicates this enormously.  It's somethign that will probably have to be left to the imms to consider since it can't be talked about on an open forum, but it's worth keeping in mind.

[Kalden]

The way I'd see the 'psi-buffer' working doesn't require any major changes to the Way format, and doesn't let people know you're online or not.

You contact someone, send them a message. If they're online, they'll see it. If they're not, it will go into a storage to be shown to them when they log in. Either way, the person sending sees nothing different.

The truth is that the Way can still be abused to check whether people are online or not -very- easily. You try it five times on someone, you basically know they aren't online, or they're putting up a barrier. If the person logs off while they have a barrier up, then they become uncontactable. You can assume they're either dead or trying to stay unreachable.

I don't know if such a thing is codeable, but it'd be neat. It would be an inconvenience because people wouldn't know for sure whether the person they just Wayed for help is online or not, but it'd be more realistic.

[Bestatte]

There are limitations to the code, first of all. Characters exist in the game only when the player logs that character on. When the character is not logged on, it gets tossed into the database and the file is closed. The character -does not exist- code-wise in the game at that point.

You can't send a message to someone who doesn't exist. There's no place in the game, code-wise, to store the message for a non-existent entity.

Then you've got the difficulty involving trying to send a message to a guy whose name is Jakhal - if he isn't logged in, you will be attempting to send a message to a jakhal creature. And of course - you can't do that, so you'd get a message saying so and voila - now you know Jakhal isn't logged in, or is dead, same as now.

The game doesn't distinguish between dead characters and characters that aren't logged in. They are -nonexistent- until that character is logged into the game.

If it -was- possible, then don't you think that merchant PCs waiting for the staff to load stuff up would just have them dropped into their inventory while they were logged out? It isn't possible - which is why they don't do it.
An IMM would have to pull the pfile out of the dbase, bring the character into the game themselves, and force a barrier onto him just so that Joe Templar could send him a message.

We have the GDB, e-mail, AIM, Yahoo, MSN, IRC, ICQ, and private messages outside the game. Inside the game we have tavern boards, clan boards, waying someone ELSE and asking them to deliver the message when your target is available, sending a runner to deliver the message at a later time, writing/reading for those who can.

There are PLENTY of ways to get info communicated. We don't need another one, especially not one that will return us to the same problems that caused the staff to remove certain echos from the Way the last time.

[Akaramu]

We have the GDB, e-mail, AIM, Yahoo, MSN, IRC, ICQ, and private messages outside the game. Inside the game we have tavern boards, clan boards,

All of the OOC means are a big no-no to use, except to coordinate login times, which is difficult when half the players in a clan refuse to post some sort of GDB name they can be PMed with.

And I brought up plenty of examples why rumor boards have a very limited use for such things.

No, I wontnt let all the VNPCs of a tavern spread the rumor that I consider reporting another clan player to suck up to a templar, which will probably get him executed, and that I desperately need to speak to my clan superior (who's GDB name or email I have no clue about since he refused posting them) before taking further steps.

I'm glad all those ways mentioned work for you, they dont for me.

[moab]

The best solution is for someone to start a clan that carries messages, packages and whatnot between people in the same town and intra-town.

This is completely do-able IC.  If you know that you might be getting message from someone else, you would go find yourself one of those pale-pinked robed merchants, cough up the fifty sid and get your message / package or whatever.

[Angela Christine]

There is another way to relay a message to a character that you ought to be able to reach, but it is a last-ditch thing that you wouldn't want to try more often than once a month or so.  Ask your clan imm (or the mud account if niether you nor the person you are trying to reach is in a sponsered clan) and ask if they can relay the message.  I've never tried to send a message to another PC this way, but I have recieved a couple messages this way.  Obviously this wouldn't be a routine way to chat, but if you have a VERY urgent, life and death message, or you haven't been able to reach another PC for WEEKS, then it might be worth a shot.

For routine "Hi, how are you?  I am fine," type communication I think the current communication channels are adequate.  If you just want to shoot the breeze there is nothing wrong with having to try to contact the same person 15 times (or 50) over the week.  If there was an automated message system it wouldn't just be used for the important communications that have been used as examples in this thread, it would also be used for routine communications.  It would be used for things that should be played out in game so that spys and mindbendser have the chance to overhear your plans.


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