Why is Allanak sometimes called the "Black City"?

[Marauder Moe]

Seems to be called that by some non-natives of the city.

[Angela Christine]

Because they haven't taken a good look at it.  

Calling Tuluk the White City and Allanak the Black City provides a satisfying dualism.  Unfortunately it isn't very accurate.  

The walls of Allanak are made from red stone.  The constant sandblasting would keep them red.  These walls are 50 cords high, well over 60 feet, so from outside the city you probably don't see much but the red walls and the black steel dragon statue (why doesn't the the sand blast the black from steel statue?  Dunno, probably magick or something).  Inside the city, not much is black.  Sure, everything is dirty and some things are made from black stone, but many things are made from sandstone or  mudbrick which would probably be off-white, yellowish, tan, or reddish, depending on the original mud and stone.  Allanak is where the black coins come from, maybe that is why.

Tuluk isn't all that white either.  The walls of Tuluk are wood, so they are likely brown, brownish-green, brownish-purple, and other brownish colours depending on the wood used.  If I recall correctly these wooden walls are only 20 cords high, so you might see some of the taller buildings from the plains south and east of the city (but the trees would obscure the view from the west).  Some construction uses white stone, white bone and ivory.  I believe much of the inner-city, where the Ivory Pyramid is, was white or off-white, thought it is all likely pretty grubby now.  The bulk of the construction is wood and mud-brick, thought the northerners do seem fond of whitewash and bright paint.  From a distance it would be the Brownish City, but I suppose from inside you could make a case for it being a white-ish city.

So my answer is that I don't know.


AC

[John]

Obsidian is black I imagine that's why.

As for Tuluk being the White City, I imagine you go back a few years before Allanak took over Tuluk, you'll find it wasn't called the White City most likely. I reckon those damn northerners are just being the opposite for the sake of being the opposite  :roll:

[Impska]

Tuluk is the Ivory City because of the Ivory Pyramid (which may or may not be made of ivory, but it's certainly white).

Allanak is the Black City mostly because Tuluk is the Ivory City, and calling it the Black City reinforces its opposition. It's fitting because of it's obsidian mining industry.

[X-D]

Hhhmmm, What color is teks tower and the iron dragon and magicker gems and the highest cast of templars in allanak?

[Pungee]

Hhhmmm, What color is teks tower and the iron dragon and magicker gems and the highest cast of templars in allanak?

Ooo! Oo! I know! I know! Plaid! Plaid! Right? No? Fuscia? Burnt Sienna? Shit...

[Callisto]

Allanak didn't earn that title because it has some black buildings, or because of obsidian mines, but because of the kind of place it is. Allanak is an terrible, brutal, evil place, easily one of the most openly savage 'civilized' places to live in the whole known world.

It was started up in Tuluk a long time ago, long before Tuluk was out from under Allanaki control, so it wasn't originally a contrast to the ivory city or anything like that, as far as I know.

Hhhmmm, What color is teks tower and the iron dragon and magicker gems and the highest cast of templars in allanak?

Unless I've got my marbles mixed up, I'm pretty sure Tek's tower is golden, not black.

[Angela Christine]

Allanak didn't earn that title because it has some black buildings, or because of obsidian mines, but because of the kind of place it is. Allanak is an terrible, brutal, evil place, easily one of the most openly savage 'civilized' places to live in the whole known world.

Ah, but is black the colour of evil or savagery in the Known World?

Sure, black is naturally associated with darkness, and therefore nightfall.  Given that the day is a time of unrelenting heat and toil, night might not have the bad rep it enjoys in some Earth cultures.  A couple hours of cool darkness ain't such a bad thing.  

Light green is associated with sorcery, for reasons I personally do not understand, but since it is light green might well be the colour of evil in the Known World.

*****

The "official" colours of the Highlord's Empire are Black and Jade, so you do see a fair bit of black and jade decorations.  The militia wear black dustcloaks.  The Allanaki militia wore black dustcloaks while they were occupying Tuluk, and they were the most obvious and common symbol of the Empire.  That could have had an influence too.


The offical colours of the Sun King's Empire are Red and White, which may account for some of the fondness for white things in the northern city.


AC

[X-D]

Grin, Well,  should of split them up some, teks tower was the one I did not know the answer too:)


But to the rest, it is all of that combined, savage, brutal, obsidian mines, templars, gemmers, all that.

[Callisto]

Ah, but is black the colour of evil or savagery in the Known World?

It would seem so.

[Yang]

I've heard Allanak refered to as the snakepit, the dragon-state and the region as vrun driath. Tuluk is also refered to as gol krathu sometimes, after the region it is founded on.

[EvilRoeSlade]

You're all wrong.

It's called the black city because of all the black people down there.

[Myrdryn]

Hhhmmm, What color is teks tower and the iron dragon and magicker gems and the highest cast of templars in allanak?

I think Tek's tower is golden, though I'm not sure if it is the the top or the whole thing.

[creeper386]

I've heard Allanak refered to as the snakepit, the dragon-state and the region as vrun driath. Tuluk is also refered to as gol krathu sometimes, after the region it is founded on.

Both of the cities I've heard being refered to as snakepits. It has nothing to do with the dragon statue that is built in Allanak. But I beleive it is ussually a tribal saying going back to the time of the Dragon. Followers of the dragon are known as serpents or something similar. The city dwellers have alot in common with the Dragon in terms of destroying whatever they want and such. So I think that's what it has to do with.


Creeper thinks if it's too IC a staff member can delete it. Whatever.

[sarahjc]

Also I believe that gol krathu is the entire area of the north, the city of tuluk and all the hunting lands around it.. Maybe up to Luirs?

[Myrdryn]

Also I believe that gol krathu is the entire area of the north, the city of tuluk and all the hunting lands around it.. Maybe up to Luirs?

Gol Krathu is actually only the area inside the scaien walls.  Once you leave the outerwalls, you are no longer on the area of land known as Gol Krathu.  The rest of the area is commonly known as the northlands.

[spawnloser]

Creeper thinks if it's too IC a staff member can delete it. Whatever.

I was once told, and I still think it is good advice, that if you think something might be too IC for the GDB, not to post it without asking your friendly neighborhood IMM if it is okay.

[Uglyhead]

Allanak is Brutal? I didn't notice. Sure, the corpses that showed up in the streets sometimes were kinda suspicious, but I was more concerned with snatching some good stuff offa them than the moral implications of the deaths on the city. Yo, I gotta eat, and the dead guy doesn't, y'know?

You want brutal, you just wait around a gate 'till the Gith decide to pay a visit. It took my character, another players's character, two Allanaki soldiers, and some HG to just drive one of those geeks out of the city, and the HG got KO'd for all the trouble. He had a nice axe, though, and it fetched a fair price at the bazaar. Heheheh.

[Stroker]

Gol Krathu is actually only the area inside the scaien walls. Once you leave the outerwalls, you are no longer on the area of land known as Gol Krathu. The rest of the area is commonly known as the northlands.

Directly from the Docs:

Gol Krathu is the ancient site where twelve wandering tribes settled after the departure of the Dragon from the Known World. The warrior-mage Muk Utep subdued and conquered these tribes and forged the city-state of Tuluk, which now occupies at least half of the area of Gol Krathu. The sub-city of the the Sun King Utep now bears the same name as the land, being called Gol Krathu or the Ivory City interchangeably.

If these facts recently changed, it would be nice to have the docs updated.

However, I've yet another point to make. Exactly what is the size of Tuluk then? If twelve tribes were able to live there, it should be quite a vast place. Which would make the city of tuluk really enormous to cover even half of the area. If so ... how come it takes no stamina to get from one end of the city to another? Just because of protection against weather elements? Does that imply that every step in the city is also equal to one league, just like outside? I always had an idea that it was much less than that.

On a slightly different note. Ancient Rome was approximately 14 square miles, give or take some (I think, I apologize if I'm mistaken). Am I to understand that Tuluk is overwhelmingly bigger than that? If so, how was such a monstrosity built? And with a population of only 40 000 wouldn't such a big city be grossly underpopulated? Perhaps I'm readying too much into it, it is afterall a fantasy world. I think I'll just continue to live in the bliss of my own ideas.

One last thing however, city-state means a sovereign city, what is meant by sub-city then?

[Gilvar]

The facts were not recently changed. Tuluk occupies half the area of Gol Krathu. The Scaien wall surrounds the entire area of Gol-Krathu. The sub-city is everything inside the Scaien Wall. Tuluk is the city-state all its territories and what not, it encompasses half the area that is enclosed in the Scaien. If you look around you'll find vast sweeps of land that take up lotsa movement that are still inside the Scaien. They are most uninhabited now though, because the tribes that dwelt there were conquered. I don't know what the sub-city is, it might've been just another word to reference the city-state without sounding redundant. I'm sure someone will correct me if Im mistaken.

If twelve tribes were able to live there, it should be quite a vast place.

Says who? You apparently, but there is no one saying that twelve tribes have to have lotsa land. Tuluk is moderately big. A tribe could be 100 people. The twelve tribes of Gol Krathu are not, to my understanding, the sole inhabitants of Tuluk, there are numerous surrounding tribes that also flocked to the new city, from the grasslands, and scrub, etc. Each of the tribes could live only a mile apart (which is very far without cars and things) and still only occupy a relatively small area. Like 5 leagues (15 miles).

Exactly what is the size of Tuluk then?

Walk along the OUTSIDE of the scaien and you'll see how big it is.

If so ... how come it takes no stamina to get from one end of the city to another?

Your walking on relatively easy roads in short spurts of time. I.e. (just making up numbers here) if from the North gate of Tuluk to the south, was 10 rooms on the outside, and 30 rooms inside, you could say that each room is only a third of a league, or about 1 mile. 30 miles long would be rather huge, since ancient Rome was only 14. The other reason is because people would throw a fit if they got tired walking in cities. What are you supposed to just stop and rest on the floor? Its easier to leave people up to their own devices to role-play the weariness of city-walking on their own.

The desert is different because its the seperating factor between many things in the game, if people could just walk across them like in a city, things would be bad. Its also a representation of the harsh landscape, the heat, etc.

Does that imply that every step in the city is also equal to one league, just like outside? I always had an idea that it was much less than that.

Yes its a third of a league at the VERY most, probably much less.

Ancient Rome was approximately 14 square miles, give or take some (I think, I apologize if I'm mistaken). Am I to understand that Tuluk is overwhelmingly bigger than that?

Nope.

Perhaps I'm readying too much into it, it is afterall a fantasy world.

You are.

Tuluk is moderately large, but not huge. Its large by the standards around it. I.e. the small virtual tribal villages of maybe 100 or so people. It was founded by the conquering of the twelve tribes, but it didn't automatically swell to 40,000 people. You are, for some reason, equating Tuluk with a large size because of the fact that twelve tribes dwelled there.

There may have only been 5000 people when Tuluk was founded, who knows. One square mile can easily accomodate 1000 people in the close quarters of Zalanthan life. Split 5000 by 12 and you have tribes of like 400, these could easily dwell in Gol Krathu, without making it a humongous area. Its hard to have a wandering tribe of 400 since wandering implies no domestication in the ways of animals or crops, so they'd essentially be hunter gatherers... and thats alot to feed. It'd be more like an army. They may have even been smaller.

Hope that helps some.

Edit: No idea on sub-city.

[Carnage]

Tuluk is moderately large, but not huge. Its large by the standards around it. I.e. the small virtual tribal villages of maybe 100 or so people. It was founded by the conquering of the twelve tribes, but it didn't automatically swell to 40,000 people. You are, for some reason, equating Tuluk with a large size because of the fact that twelve tribes dwelled there.

You mean 400,000 people.

[Stroker]

No, I do believe it was stated that the entire Northlands are 400,000, along with Tuluk, not just Tuluk itself.

And yes, thank you Gilvar, that does clear up most of it.

[spawnloser]

Dirr, why do you think that only 10% of Tuluk's population is in the city?

[Stroker]

I may be wrong, but there's an archived thread in which Sanvean states that the entire Northlands (not just the tuluk city) contains 400,000.

[spawnloser]

Yes, I found the thread (named 'Population' posted by Delerak).  Those are the numbers that Sanvaen gave.  However, that does not answer my question.  Why do you think that only 10% of the 400k would be in the city?

[Stroker]

Because the northlands are very vast containing many(?) tribes that can make up thousands and thousands of people. And lets not forget outlying tuluki villages. Seemed like a reasonable number.

[spawnloser]

Those tribals wouldn't be citizens of Tuluk, though, now would they, Dirr?  The villages, I can understand, but any one village holds nearly noone compared to the city.  Granted, there are probably a few of them, but that could not add up to 90% of the population.

[Stroker]

The Northlands are specified as containing 400,000 people, whether Tuluki citizens or not.

[spawnloser]

Allanak: 350-400k, including villages
Northlands: same number, more dispersed
Luirs: 3-5k
Tyn Dashra: 2k
Tablelands: 20k in nomadic tribes (elves/dwarves)
Red Storm: 2-3k
Anyali: 2k (counting all 3 tribes)

Okay, the tribes that you are talking about are the Anyali and the ones from over in the tablelands.  They are already represented.

[Stroker]

Maybe I'm wrong in this, but I assumed there were more tribes in the northlands than the Anyali. I wasn't really counting the tablelands either.

[Stroker]

Oh, to add one more thing. The number 40,000 is just my estimate, I really have no idea. I think I might have seen somewhere else in other posts and just continued to use it. I'm also sure that the population may fluctuate as well. So it could very well be 40,000 or 350,000 that live in the city.

[spawnloser]

Fair enough.