Gith vs Half-Giants

[Pungee]

You know, I've been toying with this idea just recently (within the last thirty minutes). The idea is to replace the Half-Giant on the Karma 3 slot and toss the Gith on instead. I see hardly anyone playing half-giants and I think that might be partially due to a number of players not liking the idea of playing a moron.

Yes yes, Gith are terrible nasty things that try and kill humans and elves alike but it would be a Karma 3 necessary to be playable and that might make a lone Gith or four appearing in various places throughout the world (or maybe just roaming the wilds and working for their various tribes or what not) a bit fun. I'm sure they'd experience immense hatred, which is always amusing, but I think they'd be fun to RP. It's not a 'Mantis Situation' where you're dealing with a being that has no real human thought process. Gith are just the... Uglier cousins of the elves.

This idea could be completely whack-o since I'm writing this as I have a -splitting- headache but give me some feedback here. I think the gith would make a nice replacement for half-giants or, a nice additional option for Karma 3 people.

[Larrath]

Disregarding the fact that there ARE half-giants played, gith are...well, besides different, I cannot think of a single character who will see a gith and not run away or kill him.  They will be unable to enter cities and their only purpose would be, really, to die trying to get in the way of caravans and travellers and pick up tons of trinkets they would be unable to use.

Unless, of course, a lot of players start playing gith and they open up a culture and take an immortal, but...I honestly would rather not thin the playerbase even more, especially with PCs who would spend half their time ambushing others.

[Dracul]

Special App.

I -have- seen it done.

[Gaare]

I'm quite sure there are giths in Red Storm.. So why not in other small villages..

[Larrath]

There are no gith in Red Storm.

As far as I understand, gith are like the manti.  For 'regular' people, they're simply monsters.  Would you let a halfling live next to you?

[Armaddict]

Erm, I remember at least two gith npc's in red storm.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I would be very upset if I couldn't play a half-giant.

However, I think that gith would be a cool idea for the distant future.  I think they would have to be karma 5 though, just as they were previously.

[Gilvar]

Gith are not welcome in civilization, or they would be playable. If you think you saw an npc you were most likely mistaken. Maybe it was gith-like, or gith-tattooed.

[Cenghiz]

Gith in Red Storm? Nope.. I haven't visited Red Storm for long, then decided I should with current char and wandered all rooms of it, beause my char didn't know Red Storm and I wondered if there were some big changes.. No gith I've seen. But I'll be mistaken if they're hooded. I didn't specially look at all NPC's.

[2lazy2loginVox]

There were gith NPCs in Red Storm many moons ago after Krrx rebuilt it. You were not mistaken in thinking you saw a few there. They have since however, disappeared from RSV for mysterious reasons. Whether they are welcome or unwelcome in other areas of the world is a matter of IC'ly investigating. I will say however that in the general documentation the elven tribe called the Red Fangs are said to be known for their association and often cooperation with the Gith which roam the wastes.

The question really comes down to how much would openning Gith to players add to the world. Sadly at this point it would really just draw focus and attention away from areas which desperately need it.  I played a Gith when Haldol took the reins and it was TONS of fun. But it's SO isolated that you can never truly interact with anyone other than gith, unless you're killing them. This is most of the reason I would guess this project was put on hold.

Now, in the future, if the plotline of the world brought the race of Gith more heavily into it... Like a rogue tribe of Gith from the north are dying and so they reach out to the city of Tuluk for assistance, pledging themselves to Utep as all the other humanoid tribes up there had years before... THAT would be awesome. Tuluk starts welcoming gith into the city? Perhaps grants them a small quarter they can call their own.. Could you imagine? The Gith shanties? Elves would unite with humans in the new racist surge...

heh, the imagination bubbles over with the possibilities... But ultimately I hope the ISO clans don't reopen unless either the playerbase is hefty enough to support it or a World Plot-line brings one of these races more into the picture, rather than just being the scary NPC monsters that they currently are.

[SpyGuy]

I was going to write some long post but hell, Vox said it right and I don't need to repeat it.

[X-D]

I always enjoyed playing gith, at least when there was a few other good players, but that was long ago, and yes, there used to be gith npc's in red storm not too very long ago.

But, they are iso, and so, not very needed for the game at the moment, (hard to believe I said that, I'd love them open) Unlike Half-giants, of which, I know of a goodly number of living half-giant pc's.

[John]

I see hardly anyone playing half-giants and I think that might be partially due to a number of players not liking the idea of playing a moron.

One of my most enjoyable characters have been HGs. Some of the best roleplayers I've seen have also been people playing HGs.

I think adding gith wouldn't add too much to the game. You have Elves for the tribal roleplay, and a lot of the aspects outlined in docs, can be covered by elves. I'd be happier to see Halflings opened up, I think it'd allow a more unqiue role. But having said that I think opening up more race options (at this point) would be a bad idea (IMO). We've got enough players to comfortably populate two cities, I'd say wait till the amount of players grows before opening up more options.

I think if the current playerbase increased by a third, there'd be enough to comfortably populate desert elf tribes (AFAIK current D-Elf tribes aren't as populated as the cities thank god), which (IMO) would be the time to add PC gith back into the equation. Before then and you dilute the playerbase and give nothing for gith to do.

[Bhagharva]

There -were- gith living in Red Storm. Wether or not they are still there I have no idea. Gith played in the past have been done rather poorly IMO. Raiding itself is a hard thing to accimplish, especially as a lone gith. Chances are, no one understands you at all so interaction is difficult. Though not impossible. People have a hard enough time staying tribal with elves. Too often I see desert elves in Tuluk sitting at an intimate, dimly-lit table in the Sanctuary sipping a drink. What does this have to do with gith? It patterns how gith are too often played. Unrealistic. Now don't take this as my saying that desert elves entering the cities is wrong. It isn't, it is an attitude the elves have toward civilization that keeps them distant. Some tribes actually do hunt the cities, some actually do come to hobknob and trade. More often than not though, its a lone warrior.. acting like a city elf.

My point in all of this, if people start to understand that tribal RP is something you stick to. Not something you toss aside once your more civilized friends come around.. we might be able to get a small clan of gith in the game again someday. We'll also need a larger player base.. so.. get cracking on that advertising.

Gith rock. The culture described in gith docs is great. Help us help you get this back as a part of the game.

-Bhagharva

[Malifaxis]

I never cease advertising.  Give us an estimate on how many players we would need commonly at peak times to activate gith, and I can promise you it'll be done.

Give us a tangible carrot, and we'll reach for it... but an ephemeral carrot is not as tempting.

[Bhagharva]

Unfourtunately I cannot give an exact number. I am stating what has been said before. We do not have the playerbase for it currently. When we get a larger base of players to work from, then we can take a second look at least and beg the OL's for a retry of the gith clan.

[Dracul]

Unfourtunately I cannot give an exact number. I am stating what has been said before. We do not have the playerbase for it currently. When we get a larger base of players to work from, then we can take a second look at least and beg the OL's for a retry of the gith clan.

102 more players.

*cough* I'm full of shit *cough*

[grog]

Frankly I'd vote for mantis, I mean they even have city on major trade routes now.

[Forest Junkie]

Frankly I'd vote for mantis, I mean they even have city on major trade routes now.

Hush mortal. The claw-feet of old shall return to the fold once more! Bwhahahahaha!!!

Seriously, give us a #, OL's, and I'll hardcore recruit peeps to arm. I want gith!

[Rindan]

If I were to see the Gith in any form, it would be Gith back in Red Storm.  I personally have zero desire to see a few random Gith 'raiders'.  You might as well apply for a tembo with all the interaction you are going to get.  Gith generally kill first and ask questions later (in a tongue you can't understand), so I fail to see how they could add more then being a really bad ass NPC for the population at large.  At least with tribal elves there is a little communication between them and the rest of the world.

I am not saying that I would hate to see another playable race, just that I think it should add something more to the world then raider clan that can't be communicated with.

[Forest Junkie]

I am not saying that I would hate to see another playable race, just that I think it should add something more to the world then raider clan that can't be communicated with.

Don't be so quick to count the clawed ones out. They actually share loose alliances with tribes, and even trade regularly with them. As for having a pc gith, this does not make you an automatic raider. Just a thought.

[Pungee]

If I ever played a Gith, or was allowed to play a Gith, I don't think I'd be a raider. I think I'd be a storyteller who roams from city to city telling tales from the wilderness. As I recally from reading the Gith docs, this is perfectly plausible given their society once you have a reason to have no tribe or home. Maybe you were exiled. Which would be great fun to RP when you got drunk.  

[Rindan]

If I ever played a Gith, or was allowed to play a Gith, I don't think I'd be a raider. I think I'd be a storyteller who roams from city to city telling tales from the wilderness. As I recally from reading the Gith docs, this is perfectly plausible given their society once you have a reason to have no tribe or home. Maybe you were exiled. Which would be great fun to RP when you got drunk.  

Of course, your bigger problem would be that you would be killed on site at pretty much every single city and outpost of civilization - that and you can't speak sirihish.  

I can see potential roles for Gith that could work to add something to the world, but all of them that come to mind are extreme exceptions and the sort of thing best left for special applications.  

If the play population was much bigger and there was a large tribal game, then I could beging to see Gith as being more viable.  

Perhaps one solution would be to start consilidating tribals into a single location (tableland).  Right now the tribal types are spread far and wide.  I personally think that tribal RP would be much improved if they were crushed in a little closer to each other.  I imagine the tablelands would have dozens of tribes.  Such tribes would be the first place I would want to see filled before spreading tribes elsewhere.  If you could populate a single location with enough tribes, you could start to get some interesting political tribal play.  You might even get to the point where a gith tribe is not a horrible idea because there would be people they could interact with.  As it stands though, with tribes more or less spread out and cities the center of the PC population, I think Gith PCs are not going to add much more then better scripting to Gith raiders.

[Dracul]

Not a bad idea...but that would shy someone like me away from playing a tribal char.

Im thinking of playing a delf as my next character, but Ive never played in the north, so not only would I need to learn tribal, I would need to learn north. etc. And it would again be limiting things that aren't already limited.

[Bhagharva]

One problem with gith is raiding. I am not an opponent of raiding clans I am a proponent. But..raiding is something that players have trouble getting a perspective on, from both ends of it. Do not get me wrong, we have had players that know how to raid correctly. But sadly they seem to be rare.

The people being raided so often panic as soon as they realize what is happening and spam flee to the nearest outpost. Currently there is not a good way to prevent this from happening. I watched one player that was blinded no less, flee from the tablelands all the way to Tuluk. I -did- comment that player. It demonstrates one side of the problem.

The other side of the problem are the raiders themselves. For every good PC we got in a raiding clan, it seemed like we got 4 that were not as -with it- as the mentor they followed. Raiding with RP has been done successfully and correctly, but I think too often it degenerated into a pkill fest or unrealistic views on raiding. Like raiding just outside of Allanaks gates. A small band of raiders cannot hold a city-state hostage no matter how many PC's are in a clan.

Raiders -do- kill. But the fact is, if you leave a target to live. They might return again, loaded down with goods.

Gith RP could potentially be really fun, so could mantis. But I can't envision either of them playable anytime soon until certain issues get resolved.

If we take even 5 players from the main player base and stick them in a clan that cannot interact with anyone else. We have just cut the playerbase down. Yes, it is true that some Red Fangs do interact.. also some Gith do trade inside of Red Storm. So if there is a chance of getting mantis or gith back into play it will likely be gith.

Also, asking for a number to hit and -then- you'll advertise helps very little. Just go advertise.

Dr Evil says, "One -MILLION- players!"

[jhunter]

Raiders -do- kill. But the fact is, if you leave a target to live. They might return again, loaded down with goods.

Also a fact...dead people don't talk...dead people don't go bring back forces from their own clan or nearby city-state to crush your small band.

Logically, for the better of your band, making certain there is noone to report the incident is the best and most realistic route.

IMHO, I don't see how someone cannot see the logic in this, and actually considers it better rp to let someone live when you don't have any real good reason to.

Yes, if you want someone to talk bout it...letting someone go is the best way to go.

I don't think one blanket statement saying that it is poor rp to kill off your victims is right.

Personally...I think people are too hesitant to kill...too quick to mail imms and complain about others...too quick to post on the board complaining about others instead of dealing with it IG.

Also, I've never seen anyone willing to return to an area once they've been attacked...and most clans...if a member is attacked they will stop people of their clan from going there until it's resolved by the nearby city-state.

I personally have only once been attacked by other pcs while outside of an outpost, city or whatever...as a player...I almost welcome it...things are getting rather monotonous because noone is willing to risk their precious character....even if it would be IC for them to possibly do so


Sometimes...dead is better....