How to make a proper sword

[Gorobei]

I just read an article.  It can be found here: http://www.nocturne.org/pipermail/worldbuilding/2000-September/006357.html


Basically, the point of this post is to condemn our current Zalanthan swords, once again.  However, this time I'm not advocating removal of the entire weapon class, due to this new information that has come to light.  Instead, I believe that the currect swordery should be done away with, and replaced with something more realistic, that draws heavily on examples of swords from our own past, such as this:

The macuahuitl (fig. 2) were the obsidian edged swords of the Aztecs, and there are accounts of both one and two-handed versions. They were usually made of oak, and were about 3.5 feet long. They had no thrusting point, but could slash and cut very effectively with their close-set obsidian edges.

Fig. 2 was conspicuously absent from this all-text document, and I failed to find a picture of one of these weapons, or a better description.  It seems rather clear, though.  A narrow club-like weapon with obsidian or stone teeth set into the edge.  Sounds neat, no?  It also sound much more structurally sound than these obsidian longswords everyone is so fond of.  

Please discuss.

[Armaddict]

We aren't the aztecs.

Technology trees differ.

[Gorobei]

We aren't the aztecs.

Technology trees differ.

I realize that, and I'm not saying that Zalanthas should adopt all of the Aztec technology (although now that I'm looking for more Aztec things, it's apparant that a lot of it is super neat, and would fit really well), and I'm not saying that everything currently Zalanthan should be scrapped.

I'm just saying that a narrow slab of obsidian -will- snap, under any sort of combat stress.  I'm trying to offer an alternative to  our unrealistic weapons, rather than continuing to fight for their destruction.

[Armaddict]

Maybe it's a different kind of obsidian.

-Our- obsidian came from volcanoes and fissures into the earth's mantle.  I haven't found any evidence of that on Zalanthas.

All I can say...is who knows?

[Gorobei]

I would put forward that if obsidian were really that different, then it would have a different name.  This is for the same reason that Zalanthas has agafari, cunyati and pymlithe, rather than oak, pine and maple.

[Angela Christine]

Maybe the Dragon, who doubtles had access to the AD&D manuals, cast Glassteel on all the obsidian in the known world?  Glass steel always struck me as very cool, and I'm sure the Dragon would agree.  


AC

[creeper386]

Well, the humans are fairly different, but still have the same name. Both Earth and Zalanthas have dwarves. They are fairly different, both have the same names.

And, lots of things have odd characteristics and such. So I'm guessing just because they are similar or have the same name, doesn't mean they are exactly the same.

Now, after stating that, I'm going to say that I do agree that these sort of weapons still would be more common. The bone or wood section of the sword/knife/dagger would be fairly solid and long lasting and the edge rather made out of obsidian, glass, ceramic or some other stone, could be replaced as it's broken and wouldn't use up as much of that resource as a weapon made completely out of it.

I acctually have a few weapons written up where the edges/tips and what not are made out of a different material, but do to difficulties with coming up with allowing them to be craftable, I have never got around to submitting them. I'm pretty sure at least. Either way, I'm not against a wider variety of weapons, but I don't think everything else should just be junked either.


Creeper

[Forest Junkie]

The system is fine as it is now. Leave it be.

[Dan]

There are weapons like you describe in the game. I also think that an obsidian saber or longsword is a little odd. It is fantasy though.

[sacac]

I would put forward that if obsidian were really that different, then it would have a different name.  This is for the same reason that Zalanthas has agafari, cunyati and pymlithe, rather than oak, pine and maple.

Yeah.. Because I see dwarves running all over the place.
Who in krath's name knows what half this stuff really is? Probably not many.
So whatever the elite Imm-style people tell us, That is what it is.
For all I know Obsidian could very much be a something uber-strong like Spider web rock or something..

[Anonymous]

Not to be snide, but I would rather see staff time devoted towards more NPC scripts and PC commands and expansions of that sort rather than what would ultimately be a pointless overhaul of hundreds of items.

[Morrolan]

I had also given this some thought, but dropped the idea, as it would involve a switch of almost all Zalanthan technology.

Micro-lithic technology involves the use of fairly uniform chips of a sharp stone, such as obsidian, set into a base made of another material, usually wood IRL, though giant insect-shell or bone would be an option in game.

The Aztects were certainly not the only users of this micro-lithic technology, and AFAIK, it is a part of the development of lithics in general.  It would not be suprising for the people of the city-states to develop such technology, especially considering the prevalence of small obsidian sources (coins) in their community.

Micro-lithic technology is a later invention, coming after the projectile points most of us are familiar with.  One of the real advantages is the simplicity of repair and the lesser need for obsidian.  With the micro-lithic technologies, only the cutting edge, and not the entire bulk of the weapon, need to be made from obsidian, and thus shaping becomes less of an issue, and the learning curve for shaping the stone shorter.  

In addition, this was a useful technology for people at the ends of trading routes, because more edges could be created from the same number of "blanks".

Zalanthans also have access to a few items that the Aztecs and others with micro-lithic technology did not, such as the shells of giant insects.  In terms of craftability, the game solution would be to simplify the cutting-edge chips so that they were craftable from obsidian (even coins would work!).  Then a decision would be made, where (for example) 15 chips would be necessary to create one cord of edge).

I would like to go on about how this would allow quite easily for the inclusion of weapon-degradation from use, and a simple means of repair.  Which, IMHO, would be so cool.  But instead, I will wrap it up here.

Anyway, I hope this makes sense.  I am working on just a few, not so restful, hours of sleep.

Morrolan

[Socko]

There're some swords just like this in-game. Look around.

[Bogre]

We aren't the aztecs.

Technology trees differ.

I'm just saying that a narrow slab of obsidian -will- snap, under any sort of combat stress.  I'm trying to offer an alternative to  our unrealistic weapons, rather than continuing to fight for their destruction.

There is nothing to say that Zalanthas has a chemically-stabler form of obsidian. Perhaps the molecular arrangement shifted.

[Forest Junkie]

We aren't the aztecs.

Technology trees differ.

I'm just saying that a narrow slab of obsidian -will- snap, under any sort of combat stress.  I'm trying to offer an alternative to  our unrealistic weapons, rather than continuing to fight for their destruction.

There is nothing to say that Zalanthas has a chemically-stabler form of obsidian. Perhaps the molecular arrangement shifted.

Absolutely Sherlock. And perhaps none of this fucking matters, because this is just a damned game.

There should be no alternatives, because there is no problem with the current system. Leave. It. Be.

[Sanvean]

I wouldn't mind seeing builders making use of this idea in the future and creating more weapons like this along with fewer slim-bladed obsidian ratkillers, but rewriting the descriptions of existing items seems like too large a work item with too little pay off.

Let's assume Zalanthan obsidian is less fragile than Terran, and leave it at that when explaining those older weapons.