The amount of IC information shared on the GDB.

[Angela Christine]

I like Zhaira's moderating, though I fear for her sanity.    Sometimes a reminder from a staff member is helpful, while reminders from other players generally are not.


AC

[Forest Junkie]

I think that sharing IC info via other OOC means of communication is a bigger problem than the bits of IC information that make it to the GDB.

Just my two cents.

Agreed.

The staff seems on top of things pretty much, in that they are quick to take off something from the board they deem IC-sensitive. My opinion, though.

[Akaramu]

All of this wouldnt be so much of an issue if wasnt common knowledge who plays what character in so many cases.

I personally refuse to respond to any more clan role calls unless the imm asks me to, and there is a good reason.

I might not even post on clan boards anymore unless its really called for.

[wizturbo]

All of this wouldnt be so much of an issue if wasnt common knowledge who plays what character in so many cases.

I personally refuse to respond to any more clan role calls unless the imm asks me to, and there is a good reason.

I might not even post on clan boards anymore unless its really called for.

You can make alternate GDB names to stay undercover?  Or is that not allowed?  I think it kinda ruins the fun if you know a character's player.  Although some players have a style that gives them away :-)

[marilla]

Yes, it is allowed. I am one such a person.

[Akaramu]

Good to know, thank you.

[spawnloser]

Yes, it is allowed...and I know for a fact that I have an alternate that I will be using for any future clan roles.  Unfortunately, I wasn't clear with my clan IMM and this one (my non-alternate GDB name) was added to the clan board.  Oh well, no big deal...I just know that at least a few people know who I play.

[John]

After reading a certain post. Yup. I'm sick of the IC info on the GDB  :roll:

[sacac]

After reading Callisto's last post.
I agree fully.
And this thread has brought some things I never thought about to mind.
And I won't say any IC sensitive INfo (Given I know it is) Unless needed.
When my PC dies, I will say that noone has seen them around. Which leaves you to wonder, Am I on vacation? or am I dead? Who knows.

[Bestatte]

Rather than saying no one has seen them around, you don't have to say anything. If someone is looking for your character, tell them to find your character IC and leave it at that.

If they figure out that you (the player) are available but your character is not over a length of time, then they'll probably come to the conclusion that your character is dead or otherwise permanently unavailable. Such is life, it happens, you can't prevent if if you choose to have pals who mud with you on your instant message buddy list.

It doesn't mean you're "giving out IC info" just by virtue of the fact that other players aren't stupid. It doesn't mean the other players are "using IC info learned in an OOC way" just because they were attentive enough to notice that your character, who is ALWAYS around, has suddenly disappeared.

But this still doesn't mean you have to allude or imply or hint that "something is up." If someone asks "Hey where's your PC been for the past couple of days?" Tell them that dreaded phrase: Find out IC.

[flurry]

I do think that, at times, there is too much IC information on the GDB.   The biggest area where it seems to happen is with information about magickers.   I've learned as much about what magickers can do on the GDB as I have in game, and often on threads that have nothing to do with magick.  So I wish people would be more careful about that, even if they think it's something most people know.  

Occasionally some other IC stuff comes up, but it seems fairly infrequent.   The last HRPT was absolutely ridiculous though.  The number of people posting obviously IC things that day was absurd.

Oh - and people posting about their character dying, that sucks too.   I've had two or three times when I found out about characters dying that way.  One time it was someone posting within a day, and giving details about how it happened.  If you really need to complain about your PC's death or look for a new role, -please- at least think about the fact that if you're using the same GDB name, you may be telling people about your character's death and ruining their opportunity to find out in game for the first time.

Overall I think people are good about this, but even just a little IC spillage onto the board is annoying and can hurt plots.

[Akaramu]

And I won't say any IC sensitive INfo (Given I know it is) Unless needed. When my PC dies, I will say that noone has seen them around. Which leaves you to wonder, Am I on vacation? or am I dead? Who knows.

I think all of us agree that we dont share sensitive IC info. When my last PC died, I was so upset and bummed out OOCly for 2 days, I just had to share it and hear how others deal with it. It only was a problem because so many people knew who I played. And I didnt realize it could be a problem when I posted. In future I'll simply make sure no one knows who I play, period. That solves the problem. Of course I'll still keep sensitive info out of the post, but a simple "I find it hard to get over my last character, any advice?" Will not create a board wide uproar anymore.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Understand that while I say this, I generally do not intentionally indulge in OOC sharage of IC info, nor do I condone it. I feel that it is exciting to not know anything OOC and be forced to discover IC. I feel that it is imperative, in most cases, to plot developement, to not be a future seer.

However, when comparing even the IC info that we might generally OOCly see on this board with that which one might see in a D&D tabletop game, we are very mild. We are still generally ignorant concerning other folks' actions. We may know this, but we may not know why or where or who.

Most of the folks who play this game do so for the roleplay, and so I feel that perhaps a median of trust might be alotted your fellow roleplayers, especially those who you simply do not really know. I think that sometimes we assume the worst, without considering that maybe it simply is not that bad.

Once more, I do not advocate sharing OOC info. Quite simply, it is not koshure. Thanos, I believe, once posted a great example of how it ruined an entire, world-spanning plot. The PCs involved were played poorly, primarily because the players themselves forgot to faucet their OOC knowledge. It would have been better if they had never known. But not every player will follow this route.

You can help to cut back on the amounts of OOC info spread by not informing folks who you play, and by not accepting IC info exchange when it is offered to you. Most chat clients have a nifty ignore button. Adversely, you could also simply not give out your Chat Contact.

What I see on the GBD rarely disturbs me. What you have to realize is that although we can police this board all we want, some things will simply slip through. We are only human. It is pointless to think that we can maintain a spotless IC/OOC line. The best we can do is try.

Rather than simply harping upon the evils of IC/OOC exchange, do something about it. Manage yourself, firstly, and indeed, manage what you read, if needs be. The newbie who very recently posted about their excursion was a newbie. They'll learn.

Let's all try to have some faith in our fellow players to do what is right. And let's start with ourselves. An ounce of prevention, as somebody said once, is worth a pound of cure...(or something like that.)

[Gimme a break]

It's shit like this.

CENSORED BY XYGAX

[Tamarin]

Yeah...I dunno.  That's pretty grey.  I mean...it didn't mention anything specifically, but its still pretty narrow enough that you could figure it out.  *shrug*  I think I'll step aside from this one.

[Xygax]

It would help the staff in moderating the IC info you're complaining about, if you'd stop re-posting it in quotations.  I have edited a few posts in this thread in the hopes of dealing with this issue.  I have no hope of keeping up with all of them.

Thanks,
 Xygax

[grog]

Now I don't like have the game ruined for me anymore then the next guy, but I would prefer that people err more on the side of being, very slightly, willing to share IC, then bark everytime somebody makes a mistake.  

It's a great game, but if I were to tell a new player anything other then that, or even, (lord no!) brag about some of the fun and interesting things I've found?

 I'd have to say the only thing I find hard to swallow sometimes, is how vocal some of the players --yes players, it's been years since I had a complaint about an Immortal, other then sour grapes of course-- get in defending the 'pure' RP that everybody must follow, in and out of the game!

just my opinion.

[John]

It's a great game, but if I were to tell a new player anything other then that, or even, (lord no!) brag about some of the fun and interesting things I've found?

I think sharing that sort of info to get people you know to play the game is definitely not wrong if you do it in person or on IM. But posting it on a public place, or passing the info to a regular player is another story IMO

I'd have to say the only thing I find hard to swallow sometimes, is how vocal some of the players ..... get in defending the 'pure' RP that everybody must follow, in and out of the game!

What do you mean by this? I don't understand  :?:

[Kalden]

Now I don't like have the game ruined for me anymore then the next guy, but I would prefer that people err more on the side of being, very slightly, willing to share IC, then bark everytime somebody makes a mistake.

I agree. Don't know what you mean by 'pure RP', but I'm liberal when it comes to sharing IC information, especially fun stories.

I usually find that everyone is real strict about it on boards, but when you get to know them and become their friend on IM, they're more than willing to share plenty of stuff. It doesn't even matter what your karma level is, either. It's more how impressionable you are, and how deeply someone drilled into your head that you "can never share IC info, never ever".

[Twilight]

There is an insane amount of IC information out there.  Heck, just with the game world alone, without adding in all the PC generated stuff.  That doesn't devalue the importance of it being IC, though.  

I like the GDB as a discussion forum.  I don't like it when I come around and see discussion of code mechanics, people saying they know who X's character is, people letting slip stuff about the magick system, people letting slip the IC name for this or that,  people trying to show how much they know by obscure references, half letting something slip,  thinking no one will be able to figure out what they are refering to, etc.

Each instance isn't generally that much in and of itself.  Stuff that is generally gets moderated, after all.  But I've read the boards for eight or nine years now.  I have more than a fair knowledge of the game world.  These slips add up, you can get to the point where you can made some pretty informed guesses about IC stuff from what you learn here.  I have a fairly strict standpoint towards IC info, I don't even want to be able to guess.

There is a line that should not be crossed.  Where this line is has shifted over the years.  I would say it is fairly liberal right now.

[Akaramu]

The fun IC stories, especially in the "twinkiest things ever done" and "worst death" threads are what got me hooked to the game. Quite some time ago, I read a story someone shared on a different board, about a warrior who barely escaped the fate of being an arena slave, found a mate and had twin girls, and ran into the guy who almost got him killed many years ago again. THAT story made me remember Armageddon when I grew tired of Achaea, and the candy I discovered on this board made me excited enough to dig through all the information, and stick with the game when I encountered frustrating beginner difficulties.

I dont see a problem with sharing stories about characters who are no longer alive, as long as they dont contain information about the magick system, or the likes.

These stories attract new players.

Keep everything to yourselves, and they will never know what there is to discover, and give up in frustration instead of looking forward to the richness they can get themselves involved in.

[Bestatte]

Twilight wrote (in part):

Stuff that is generally gets moderated, after all. But I've read the boards for eight or nine years now. I have more than a fair knowledge of the game world.

Caveat: Twilight, this isn't necessarily directed to you. Obviously you're not the only one in this situation. It's directed to anyone who, through continued play, knows things their current character doesn't know.

I realize that some players, especially when they're new, won't really appreciate the importance and significance of discovering things on their own. That said, what is the difference between my knowing about secret places in certain areas, because a previous character of mine discovered them, and someone whose previous character never discovered them being told about them?

Once you as a player know something, you know it. You can't UNknow it. It's your responsibility to determine whether or not your current character knows what you (the player) know. I feel it's the same with being -told- about things through OOC means by other people. No matter how you learned about something, it's still your responsibility to make sure your character knows only what your character -should- know.

If you don't wanna hear something then sure - telling someone "please don't tell me any more" is appropriate and should be honored by the "teller." And to that end, I feel the GDB is not the place for divulging info, because not everyone is going to want to see it and the only way you know that it's something you don't wanna know, is if you read it. By then it's too late.

However the query still remains: People who've been playing this game awhile and have played a variety of roles, will know things about the game, different clans, secrets, hidden treasures, etc. The players will know these things. The players will have the responsibility to make sure their characters know - or not know - about these things. New players, or players who have played a very limited role over an extended period of time, won't have this knowledge of "stuff." How is them learning of it any different (other than enjoying the experience of finding out first-hand) from what long-time players know by virtue of simply being around longer?

Bear in mind that some people really SUCK at puzzle-solving, for instance. They hate this one very narrow aspect of gaming. They wanna roleplay their hearts out, delve deep into their character's persona, but they just totally and utterly suck at finding clues and solving puzzles.

Now, you have a veteran who's had 3 characters solve this puzzle already. His PLAYER knows the answer to this puzzle, so when his 4th character shows up, he knows that he can decide whether or not his PC will solve it or not, how easy or difficult it will be for his PC to solve it, and in essence he is in complete control over the outcome. All because - he knows IC information that his PC is oblivious to.

Now you have a new player who gets stuck in the middle of this puzzle. He's never gone through it before and he HATES puzzles. He's really bad at them, and all he wants to do is get the fuck out and grab a beer at the local tavern. He's pressed for time, he wants to log out and not show up tomorrrow morning with an empty player base to a puzzle he can't get IC help with.

I'm not suggesting that answers be provided. I think that would be the "wrong" way to solve this issue. What I am suggesting is that people try to take into consideration that many of you - and sure me too - already know this stuff. We have already solved our puzzles, we can sit smugly in our computer chairs and snicker when the newbie struggles, and yell at him when he asks WTF he should do to get out of the puzzle.

Or, we can have a little compassion and remember that we have the advantage, that we already know this *highly* IC information, even though our characters might be clueless.

That's all I wanted to say.

[Larrath]

Solution: New Forum board "IC Stuff and Spoilers".

And I swear I'm not suggesting this just so that IC stuff can be deleted every five minutes.   :roll:

Or, if this is possible, make a new options for regular Board users (or a special semi-admin group) mark a particular message/thread as IC Sensitive, at which point it could be looked at and edited or removed or ignored.

[Bestatte]

I don't think it'll do the game or its community any benefit to intentionally provide IC info to the player base.

I just think people need to be more understanding and empathetic of those who don't know stuff, simply because they haven't had a character experience what some other players have experienced yet.

[Dan]

The only reason I am still here is becuase there isn't some IC spoilers thread. If one were to crop up I am near-certain that the game would degrade to something I would rather not be a part of. I would probably quit playing.

Arm is great becuase of the mystery, not only that, but it is a major part of it. Take the mystery away and all you have is code.