Rez...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I am wondering something. Do we still have that three-hour ressurection gate? That is something that I think should ultimately be abolished. It kind of puts the PC who just died in a very strange position. It's a very OOC convention, as well.

[UnderSeven]

I've never been three hour rezed and I would agree with you 7, except foir the fact that I think it helps for newbies who don't even remotely grasp the game yet.  I think that's why it's here anyway.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I've had multiple people that I've introduced to the game get 3-hour rezzed.  It's usually something that you get over after the first character or so.  Even after that, though, something could still go horribly wrong and leave you quite dead within your first hour of playing time which wouldn't be much fun after you spent all that time drawing up a character and getting it approved.

[Akaramu]

Maybe allow it for a new player's first PC only.

[Forest Junkie]

Sorry, but I think it's a nice feature for people who are just starting out. It would seem a bit harsh to not have it, imo, because it would put a strain on players who are already having problems with the scope of the game.

[Northlander]

My one gripe with it is that the echos should make clear that what's going on is a very OOC thing. I get a rather bad vibe from our current ones, and am sure it's at least as jolting to the truly new:

A bright light fills your vision.
When it clears, you find yourself standing on a plane of fog.

A cold voice booms in your ears,
  'You have been spared from death.'

After a seeming eternity, the cold voice continues,
  'this once.  Know that when next you stand before me, it will be the last.'

Could make you feel like a Chosen!

[ashjpd]

I know it still works. It has to stay, cause it is the only way to keep new players playing. If they don't understand and stuff. Just think they are crazy and rp with them and help them out, it is great help in the long run. After I helped out a guy, who was running around in 'nak bleeding to death, saying that he died. I was able to cope and rp with him, and I got some feedback form an immortal. So it is all for the good.

[Anarchy]

My best PC died within the three hour limit, i came back and she kicked butt for 5 IC years.

Im very glad that Rezz thing exists, and it would be a massive shame if it was removed. My only point of it is i think PCs should come back with clothing!

[Zacharai]

I voted for Rez, simply because it was the most fun console game I've ever played.

As far as it applies to Armageddon, why not?  It's not like a second chance to play some uber, skill-maxxed, twinked warrior.  It allows you to recover from extreme stupidity, when your character is still useless, worthless, and dumb.

Additionally, it's crucial for new MUDders from H&S ports.  Is death really that bad?  Holy *kank droppings*, it is!  Better be more careful this time around.

[segue]

If this little help, the rez, is extremely useful, maybe you should think about trying to let your characters live longer.  I've seen some typo'd sdescs come through the grinder, and I blame it on the prodigious number of new apps every week.  Yes, Arm is paced slowly.  When the big *kank droppings* happens, and you're a part of it, perhaps even being in command, it's memorable.  Being killed by a tarantuala isn't.

Well, don't take my word for it.  Find out for yourself.  If you have fifty dead characters to your name, maybe turn an eye to my words.  The best parts of Arm only happen with the oldest characters.

[/segue]

--Zach

[lukie]

I agree with anarchy, you should at least get clothes after being ressurected or whatever you like to call it. Running around the bazaar naked with no clothes, money or travel cakes seems sort of strange.

I think it should load you with pants. Thats  the only complaint I have. I also think you should be able to decide NOT to come back if you so choose.

On the other hand my 100+ day char was a rez char.

[John]

I think people should get 2 hour rez's until they've had a char for over 20 hours. If they haven't had a character that's lived longer then 20 hours, they're obviously still having trouble.

*plink plink*

[Quo]

I didn't know the wording that came along with the event yet, thanks Northlander for sharing it.

I think the basic reasoning behind the feature makes a lot of sense, even though the ic impact can be difficult. I understand that limiting it to two hours is probably an attempt of keeping that ic impact down.

From what I have read in this thread it'd seem desirable to me if the wording were clearly ooc, possibly giving a little guideline about the ic impact, and leave a choice to the player if he wants to get this char resurrected, edit it for re-application, wish for immortal assistance or guidance, or abandon it alltogether.

The result could be everything from for example a new char who happened to get involved with several others and die in plain public within his first hour choosing to not reappear to someone else starting his first char at an off hour to an empty Red Storm and die lonely to be replaced  in 'nak with the help of an immortal after checking it over with the added background that he made it there through the help of a vnpc caravan.

Basically, i'd ask for more options, and a possible introduction into the Armageddon way of applying common (ic-)sense for starters.

[Callisto]

I'm all for the Res, but we need that bright light stuff replaced with some OOC information surrounding death. I know at one point someone who had just died came back and started pointing fingers at her killers, which actually resulted in some IC problems across the board.

Add in an auto-clothing script (IE: ragged pants/shirt, something worth 0 'sid), some plain OOC info about how to role-play the situation and an option to simply allow the character to stay dead (maybe a room you walk into and quit, which auto-stores/kills the character), and we'd be peachy.

[spawnloser]

I have never had a character die in the three hour limit.  I think there was one that died bare minutes outside of that time, but I can't be sure.

That having been said, I think the newly rezzed should start out with the same gear they had when they first entered the game...obviously they were having problems and now are starting at an even greater disadvantage, even if clothed.

Edit: Oh yes, especially with the fact that they are not the same person as the dead character that just got rezzed, they should start over at where they originally started at for cash...maybe repop them into the Hall of Kings without scars when auto-rezzed and have them point to a location all over again.

[Lasakar]

I had once the honor of this function. Was killed outside the gates and suddenly I found me back a the middle of the Bazzaar, completely naked!
I don't know, but I think it isn't very helpful for a complete newbie to begin without a coin or a piece of eqiupment anew. So I think it would be better to be dead and start a new char. Or let him start his old char at the old startpsoition.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I should have offered a solution, but I was pressed for time. If there is still rez, then here is the solution. The original corpse should be destroyed instantly, all the equipment transfered to the new character, and thus, they are allowed to actually restart. As it is, they start with no sid and no clothes...that is simply worse than sheer death.

[UnderSeven]

I disagree about the corpse being destroyed.  

Currently when this happens, you are expected to play not as if you're the one who died, because there could be some plot involvement.  What I do agree with though is there should be some eq put on the char and some coins given to them.  

I don't agree it's worse than death though. Some people (granted probably not a newbie) put a lot of thought and eeffort into the their char concept and desc.  I would much rather not lose a hard worked on desc if I were just grasping the game and wandered out the gates of Allanak without realizing what I was doing.

[Carnage]

I should have offered a solution, but I was pressed for time. If there is still rez, then here is the solution. The original corpse should be destroyed instantly, all the equipment transfered to the new character, and thus, they are allowed to actually restart. As it is, they start with no sid and no clothes...that is simply worse than sheer death.

I was just about to post something along those lines.

Yes, I agree. It's more jarring to pop naked, 'sidless, and confused than just plain confused.

[Lazloth]

And what about a condition where someone killed the newbie and remained reliant on those boots, bp & 872 coins?   -whoosh-

[Anonymous]

Repopping, as it's implemented, definitely encourages 'happening' to find your old corpse since resurrected without anything.  On the flip side, if you repopped with everything you used to have, then I imagine people would abuse it, get killed inside the city, repop and double their sids.

I like repopping new players so they won't get frustrated.  At first I had a hard time deterimining what was indoors and what was outdoors and I lost that PC.  I can imagine this getting frustrating for people who maybe keep dying because they are just confused about what is where.

So, I imagine, all things considered, it's implemented as well as it can be done.

[flurry]

Yep..sort of along the lines of <7 I would just say perhaps restart them with the newbie clothes and maybe half the normal amount of sid.   I strongly disagree with making the corpse disappear.    Maybe a script that if a restarted PC touches their corpse they explode.    :twisted:

[number13]

Make it what it is: it's not a ressurrection, it's a save based on DM fiat/mercy.

Instead of the unlikely message from Drov, make it more like:

"Just as the death blow is about to hit, you manage to tumble away.  In a blur, you rush about in mortal fear of your life.  Some hours later, you find yourself at ~room.desc."

"With a sinking feeling, you realize that your escape was sheer dumb luck.  If the same situation happens again, you will surely die."

Then move the player to the new location, including all equipment and gold, but near death's door.

Losing all your starting gold and equipment is a fate worse than death for a noob, espcially if the character happens to be an elf, rinther, or otherwise unable expect the sympathy of other PCs.

[ashjpd]

1. I think we should have the choice to come back to life at the end, there is no reason to keep on playing really if you start with no clothes and money, and don't have any real ways to make any sids.

2. I think there should be a reasonable start off with things. Half the coins sounds nice, definetly clothes.

3.I think I remember that if you die, you are a completely new character and stuff, someone can find a post or help file on it.

4. Concerning #1 I think it might be fun, walking over to a bar, sitting there naked. Add some nice role-play for everyone.

[UnderSeven]

This is a bad idea.  Sometimes pcs are the ones who kill said newbie. If we did that then it wouldn't be any help at all.  In addition their death sometimes is part of tiny plots. Plus what do the pcs who are around see.  Said newbie tumbling all the way to the center of meleth square from the middle of the desert?

. . . I think not.

The message could afford to be changed yes.  To somehting ooc about how they get another chance since their char is so new.

And we could give them some newbie clothes.

other than that, I think the system shouldn't change.

[number13]

A two hour old noob character is not likely to be a pivotal part of a plot...the situation would be just the same as if the noob managed to type FLEE in time.

In any case, if you're busy using some plot as an excuse to kill a clueless 2 hour old character I'd suggest that the pk wasn't in the spirit of the game, nor are such activities likely to inspire a new player to continue playing the game.

[UnderSeven]

In most cases you may be right, but if there is just ONE case wher eyou are wrong that maybe more than enough for such an idea to foul up.  Allow me to demonstrate.  Newbie pops in game first time.  See's a wagon in Meleth, meanwhile the person who owns it has said anyone on this wagon dies.  Newbie gets on and see's why, it's full of spice!  They go to hack newbie to little shrewds.

But newbie amazingly survives because of change in code.  Infact, wagon owners CAN'T kill newbie to save themselves untill he's been around for three hours.  

Where as with current code? Clueless newbie is killed, comes back confused but someone explains to him how to play it and all is well.


Another note though, it might be nice if the three hour rez was accompanied by a ooc message explaining how to treat this rez ic.

Still I think your idea is heavily flawed. I could give you examples like this all day long.  But I'll instead say, that's simply not in the spirit of the game.

[John]

I can't see repopping being very confusing for most newbies. After all, most MUs have repopping in some form or another, so the only people who it would be completely new for are those who have never played a MU before.

However if it is so difficult to know how to RP it out (I've come across some newbies who do seem confused by it), have the person repop into a room that has a description that explains what just happened. Then "recommend" (or perhaps even force) the rez'd character to read a couple of help files that will help explain what happened, and then when they leave the room it'll be a 1 way trip to their home city. This gives them the benefit of being able to take as long as they want, learning how to roleplay their character now, without standing in the middle of a room, having weather, time and people effect them.

I agree with rez'd characters having clothes. I don't agree with them having money. If they do have money, nothing more then 100 'sid. It is ridiculously easy to find money again and I've done it in the past with rez'd chars

[crymerci]

I should have offered a solution, but I was pressed for time. If there is still rez, then here is the solution. The original corpse should be destroyed instantly, all the equipment transfered to the new character, and thus, they are allowed to actually restart. As it is, they start with no sid and no clothes...that is simply worse than sheer death.

I tend to not like the 3-hours rez at all, but if it stays I think this is how it should go.

Either that or it should just be perma-death from the get-go.  I would prefer that actually, but it might not be the best solution for new players.

[Angela Christine]

Finding new stuff isn't that hard.  Often you can find a pack, cloak, or some unsaleable 'rinth crap just laying around the bazaar or the 'rinth in Allanak, and usually some gith gear can be found near the city because established characters don't think it is worth the trouble to haul it back to town to sell.  Up north it is harder to find used clothing, but it is a little easier to make money, so I guess it all works out.

I would like to see new rezes get pants and a shirt, but nothing else.  The pants and shirt newbies get usually can't be sold for more than a few coins, so even if the go strip their first corpse it isn't like they will be making a big profit on it.  Being naked sucks.  ICly it is easier to explain being shoeless than pantless.

The fact that you come back naked and sidless gives the impression that it is ok to find your twin corpse.  It is usually as stupid thing to do, but not a heineous infraction of the rules.  The couple times I've died before the the two hour limit I have dashed into the nearest building to sleep and then gone out to find my corpse.  Not because I want my oh-so-valuable newbie pants back, like I said I don't have much trouble finding new clothes, but because I don't want anyone else to see the corpse and then see a character that looks just like the corpse walking around.  That is embarassing, it's like wearing a sign that says "Hey look!  I was dumb enough to get killed right away!"  :oops:  So if I can I go find my corpse and junk it, removing my evil twin from the world.  You just can't count on the beastie that killed you to promptly eat your face off and render your corpse nondescript.

AC

[ashjpd]

Well,
When I was a newb, my character was killed while sleeping once on the north road, made me very unhappy. Anyways, my next character was accepted quite soon after that, and I was on the smae road, I was lucky enough to find my old character's head. And keep it in my pack to admire it... Maybe the same might go for someone keeping their own corpse or something of the sort.

the small, pointy-chinned man is standing here.
l small

blah blah blah....

the small, pointy-chinned man is in excellent condition.

secondary hand:the head of the small, pointy-chinned man

I am over it now... :roll:

[spawnloser]

I do recall it being said that to go find your corpse was bad form.  If it is not, I'm fine with the situation being left completely as it is.

I do NOT want to see the 3-hour rez go away as it would be annoying...just after waiting for your new character to get approved, you hop on the mud, start playing and die...now you have to wait for a new character to be approved?  Naw, dude.  Keep it the way it is.

[Angela Christine]

I think it is a grey area.  

Yes, there is a rule against going to find corpses of previous characters, but I think this means actual characters that died and then you had to send in an application and stuff.  The 2 hour rez character isn't a real character, it's just sort of a bad dream that leaves a corpse.  If you  put in your background that you are Joe the baker's son, then obviously the dead guy that looks just like you could not have been Joe the baker's son.  It's a doppleganger.  An illusion.  An unpleasant remnant of a botched abortion.  It isn't really a previous character, because you can't ever have two characters with the same name, and if the character you have now is Joe, then Joe.1 could never have existed.  

Now if you Rezzed with full newbie gear I'd say the pre-rez body would count as a forbiddin corpse.  But since you start with nothing I assume the property on the fresh corpse is still -your- newbie gear, at least if you can get to it before anyone else does.

That is my reasoning, anyway.  


Angela Christine

[Gabriel]

A point that many of you are overlooking is that the most likely reason the newby dies is that he's a newby, and thus is unlikely to know any of these unstated or hidden rules, how to re-equip himself, or anything else other than what his most-likely-cursory review of the docs has provided.

I'm waiting for my first character to be approved. I had no idea from reading the help files on the web that there was any provision for early deaths; I figured permadeath was permadeath and resigned myself myself to probably losing multiple characters in embarassing fashions until I get the hang of things.

If I hadn't seen this thread, I'd have been extremely confused with a mulligan, but would most likely have handled it as I would in the other online RPGs I've played, i.e. it is the same character, he knows who killed him, and he knows where "his" stuff is and should go get it... or, depending on my mood, I might have assumed I was undead and gone around moaning for brainnnnsssss with my hands stretched out zombie-style in front of me. Unless the player is confronted with an explicitly-stated policy about how to handle this situation, there's no point in discussing what he can or should do because he's not going to do it anyway.

If the purpose of this feature is to give the novice player an easier starting experience, then you need to re-equip him and also instruct him how the situation should be roleplayed, as part of the process. Failure to do so defeats the purpose of having the feature at all.

[UnderSeven]

Actually I don't think we were overlooking that.  I think it was more or less just assumed by most of us arguing about this that the reason it's there is for those novice people.

I'm all in support of not chagning or getting rid of it.  Except for MAYBE some minor adjustments to make it less confusiong.  

You r post is more or less exactly why I feel that way.

[Quirk]

If the purpose of this feature is to give the novice player an easier starting experience, then you need to re-equip him and also instruct him how the situation should be roleplayed, as part of the process. Failure to do so defeats the purpose of having the feature at all.

Well said, that man.

I did my best to dig up information from the website, helpfiles and even archives on how the newbie resurrection should be handled. I found zilch by the way of staff opinion. It's possible I was overlooking something obvious, as I recall coming across staff guidelines an age ago, but it certainly isn't trivial to find.

If you're going to repop in game, naked and sidless, some obvious easy-to-find information on how to RP this would be valuable, perhaps accessible from "help newbie". The point of the respawn is otherwise somewhat lost, I think.

Quirk