Ride and two handed weapons

[spawnloser]

It's not unfeasable...so hold it in your inventory, which is what that setup describes, uberjazz.  If you want it wielded, don't ride.  Try holding a huge mother of a sword while riding a horse that is trotting along...you will have problems doing both, I guarantee it.

[ashjpd]

I don't know about all you guys, but I always copy and paste -dismount- when I am out in the desert and such. It is extremely helpful, you have to be careful, but it has saved my life in the long run. Maybe that would help with the sheating/drawing/equiping while on or off a mount.

[SailorMars]

Try holding a huge mother of a sword while riding a horse that is trotting along...you will have problems doing both, I guarantee it.

What's harder: Riding along with a weapon in each hand (or weapon and shield), guiding the mount purely by the knees (already possible), or riding along with a 2-h weapon held in one hand? Give me a break. Also, Zalanthans aren't us. These people have come up hard. I promise you if we all suddenly warped into Arm, you'd learn to do all kinds of shit you didn't think you were capable of. Or die trying. Sorry, it's just dangerous ground to limit a fantasy setting with "realism", especially a coded fantasy setting where there are certain limitations inherent.

This isn't a realism-factor thing. It's a code limitation thing. Don't screw the 2-h wielders.

[Tamarin]

Exactly...as it is, two-handed has a ton of limitations...especially the ride factor which can be seriously detrimental to one's health.

[creeper386]

Yeah... Skilled rangers ride with no hands at all... On beasts that it'd be impossible to control with your legs... Unlikely to control by sound, or just general sixth sense of how the rider is feeling.

If you want realism... Well, you could hold the weapon and the reins all together.

Honestly, if the excuse was you couldn't swing a two handed sword from kank back... From the description of them, it'd be hard to use anything but a spear and reach or be reached... They aren't huge, but you aren't straddling them like a horse and considering if you assess then with even tall characters they are taller then you... Your probably sitting up high. Lets just take mounted combat out for kanks... As really they are about as suitable to combat as a donkey, or a lame mule.

Over all, I think there is alot about the game that isn't realistic. A WHOLE lot. Some of its because of the game world. Some of it is also because of playability. Over all I don't think it really needs to be added in, but I see little reason to limit choices. As thats what this does. Riding kanks is fairly important. Etwoing weapons is a new skill. Probably why people are using it more. It makes little sense for it to be around when the code makes it difficult to live by that choice. Which it isn't from what I've seen an easy thing to live with as it is.


Creeper is done.

[Malifaxis]

For fucks sake.

I don't think its too much to ask, considering it will add a lot more flavor to the game world.

How, HOW, I ask you, would it add flavor?  It wouldn't.  It would merely make it easier to survive in unrealistic situations.

Have you ever, as a person, held a two handed weapon?  Have you ever tried to swing one?  A two handed sword is not an easy thing to maneuver, it's big, it's bulky, and it's annoying as fuck to turn.  So you've got your big ass treated baobab, obsidian razor-edge zweihander across your lap, and you're riding along.  Suddenly Joe Shit the Gith Man jumps out at you and goes RAWWR!

Your sword is across your lap, you have one hand on it.  You start to pull it up... since you have to flex your mighty zalanthan arms to do it, that gith is going to know EXACTLY what you're doing.  Since it's going to take you approximately 5 seconds to get your damn sword into a position to do ANYTHING, that gith is going to charge your 2h using ass and eat your brains.

Why does it take 5 seconds you ask?
Because the damn sword is horizontal.
Because the damn sword weighs about 20 lbs.
Because the damn sword is very very NOT good for defense.

And lets say you're lucky, and that the blade is facing AWAY from your opponent... then you can, if you are insanely strong and wicked fast, you can bring that big mother over in an arc of demise in about 3 seconds.

3 seconds would easily give any gith enough time to get around to the other damn side of your kank.  If the blade is toward your gith buddy when he enters, then you have one option... and that's to thrust... from a position with that sword on your waist... without leverage... without ANY DAMN POSSIBILITY of parrying.

The combo of ride lag and draw lag make it PERFECTLY realistic, imnsho, and it should not be changed.

And if a middle ground must be reached... then I would say that if you have a 2h out and you're riding, then your ride lag is increased, to simulate the fact that anything with half a damn brain is going to know what you're doing the second you even try to twitch that damn canoe/blade out of your lap.

Malifaxis
-who wonders why the bloody fuck he's still arguing this.

[Angela Christine]

But wouldn't those problems also apply to most single hand weapons too?  Anything bigger than, say, a light shortsword is probably going to be lying accross your lap.  Even  a dagger probably won't be held up at the ready, even holding up an empty hand gets tiring after a few minutes, much less hours.

Keeping things the way they are restricts mounted two-handers to rangers, which isn't a big deal.  There are people who don't ride, mostly elves and unlucky half-giants, or people with tents and know how to use them.  I'd like two-handers to be a little easier to use, but I can deal with it either way.

AC

[Malifaxis]

Even a longsword is relatively easy to get into position once you get used to it.  Not THAT easy, mind you, but easier than a blade that is twice to three times its weight.

Although, I could go on and on and bitch and bitch about mounted combat.

Especially when dealing with those bastards that think it's possible to knife fight from the back of an anything... you know who you are, you choads.

[creeper386]

This is alot of rambling. I don't give a shit if you think I'm wrong or I am. Or whatever. Still is the point this is a game. Realism is nice sometimes, but hardly neccessary, and it isn't like realism is the back bone of the game and just EVERYTHING is like real life to a T. Banning that which doesn't exist.

Most likely if weapons in Armageddon are going to weight that much for a two handed sword, a longsword alone well probably weight about ten pounds... But you know... I guess longswords in real life way 6-10lbs... Okay... I still get a kick out of people that think weapons way just incredible amounts. When the little amount they do way is plenty heavy enough.

I can't decently tell the weight of alot of Zalanthan weapons... But Earth swords certainly aren't ever that heavy. Most the time a longsword at MOST might be 5 lbs. Ussually around 3. A bastard sword ussually between 4-5 lbs. A two handed sword... I'd say alot of times whats common now of days to see in stores or on walls wouldn't be that common, and even if they were twice the size of a longsword in every possible way that'd be between 12-20lbs or so... Although they ussually aren't that much thicker then a longsword, width, it'd depend, maybe abit wider at the base. Ussually probably wouldn't be twice the length, a good eight feet of steel wouldn't work well for a sword. And I don't know about you... But reaction time with weapons is fairly quick even a huge thing like that... If you couldn't react quickly with them. They wouldn't be used. As anyone that tried to use them would get killed and the idea would stop with them.

There are alot of 'realistic' things that could happen when a gith comes along. If it's that quickly that he can charge you... When he just entered... Even if he was in the room laying an ambush there is a good chance he's no where near you... Realism honestly doesn't come into play that often... The code does what it does. Very really doesn't it include alot of variables that would be in place if things were 'realistic'.

And still ... Want realism... Anyone with any sort of small weapon won't be able to fight from kank back. Probably not from an erdlu and certainly not an inix. They can't protect themselves or anything. Then have the same apply to the people attacking them. Want to hurt them, get them off the kank first. As it'd be hard to reach them. Lets have mounts run off, when combat happens... Most aren't trained in combat, I doubt most could EVEN be trained in combat. Insects aren't exactly easy to work with I imagine. Want realism... Well get it in real life. Honestly shit isn't real.

Creeper

[Rindan]

I think a simple solution would be to get a weapon for riding and a weapon for killing.  Keep your weapon for killing sheated and have your smaller riding weapon out when on kank back.  If you get attacked at any point it is a simple enough matter to drop your riding weapon once off your kank and draw your two handed weapon.  I think you can probably do this without any sort of delay so I don't think there is even a coded disadvantage.

The bigger issue is that a two handed weapon might just be a shitty choice for a guy who needs to ride around.  It might work great for your militia man, but is probably somewhat of a pain in the ass for your Byner.  It might very well turn out to be that Byners generally run around with two weapons for a good reason, the poor dumb bastards like to walk into ambushes and it is good to have a weapon ready when ambushed.

I don't think it is a deal breaker, you are just going to have to work out a way around it.  There are ways around it, they just are not as clean and simple as simply using two weapons or a weapon and a shield.

Really, just get a second smaller weapon you hold for riding.  The IC justification is simple, you like having a weapon at ready when riding in case of ambush, and the tree you normally lug around simply can't be used from kank-back.