House goods

[darksheep]

I was wondering, do the Houses actually do the things that the site documentation says they do to make money? ie. Does a PC character of House Borsail actually sell slaves to someone for House income, or does anyone actually sell water for House Tenneshi? Or does an immortal give PC House Nobles money that they made from virtual work? I just kinda thought of it because the barracks for the Houses are able to provide seemingly unlimited amount of food, water and pay for all it's PC players but I don't really hear much about anyone doing anything to make money for the House. This isn't a complaint or anything, I was just curious.

[edit] Question is directed towards PC work only. I know there are vnpcs who are doing work for the House.

[Dakkon Black]

From the houses I've seen yes indeed they do. Thats the roll of the PC merchants and or Agents of the house. However on that note you have to remember that there is a massive Vnpc Presence in any given house. Realistically you will always have 10 warriors to every PC Merchant because people like to play that role more for the most part. Not to mention bieng a merch requires time and  patience. In the end, yes you can do these roles that make money for the house but you are only a small part of a large collective of money that comes into any given house. And it's more then enough to pay for the military branch.

[sacac]

Like House Nenyuk, They probably get to keep all the PC's money that they have in the bank when they find out who died and whatnot.

[Anonymous]

Speaking from the perspective of the active Winrothol noble, yes, I sell slaves.  The only issue here being that slaves aren't sold to anyone, so I have a limited customer base.

[sarahjc]

I've watch guest turn people down for slaves.. Its great!  


But yes, belive it or not, the Nobles don't just sit on the couch. They have jobs that they have to do other then sceeming and thinking up evil plots.


:twisted:

[Jacques]

But yes, belive it or not, the Nobles don't just sit on the couch. They have jobs that they have to do other then sceeming and thinking up evil plots.

But... but... I thought that's what the nobles' job WAS!  :wink:

Having known and served quite a few Northern nobles, I can say without question that they all have additional functions beyond "sceeming and thinking up evil plots." They're just the things that we, the common scum, so rarely see that we tend to forget they're there.

[Bestatte]

Yep I can attest to that.

They also hire and train people to carry out their scheming and evil plots.

Then they have to buy equipment for the employees, so that they can carry those evil plots out efficiently.

They also have to make nice with the merchants, which can take an inordinate amount of effort, so that they can be guaranteed a good price in the purchase of the equipment that their employees will need to carry out those evil plots.

And let's not forget sucking up to the templars, who can be crucial in the development and execution of those schemes and evil plots.

There's also the unclanned spies, assassins, and general scum of the known world types who need to be mollycoddled so that they can unknowingly be duped into helping the noble's schemes and evil plots come to fruition.

Being a noble is a LOT of work!

-note - I'm not being facetious in this post, consider it a quasi-truthful satire, with the utmost respect for players who take on such an important and responsible role as a noble.

[sarahjc]

True.. True and I forget how much time is acctually consumed by the evil ploting process.. I did not mean to undermine the value of the nobles evil plotting skills which should by all means be their most important job.


:twisted:

[Lerl]

I think VNPCs are how the immortals ultimately control the story line and thats a good thing as they usualy create an interesting believable story.  That said it is quite boring that VNPCs do most of the work of a House.  This makes the economy (and pretty much everything else) uneffected by PC hard-coded actions (helpful or hurtful), which is a horrible loss of opportuntiy for conflict and drama.

Personally, I love and hate nobles.  I love to have someone to humble myself before.  But I find it unbelievable that taxes, property rent, loans to merchant houses, or whatever else could support them.  I think in this case the virtualness detracts from the story as there is no story cause it isn't obvious where they get their money.  They certainly haven't gotten any money from any of my characters.  I think there needs to be an obvious 50% tax to Oash in all shops or something.  I think Tor needs to regularly visit house merchant estates to collect supplies (take.. not buy) to support the troops.   I think templars/gate guard should charge you for going in and out of the city.  ETC.. ETC.. I think you get my point.

Rick

[spawnloser]

I dunno, Lerl.  Nobles that you see (read PCs) are low tier.  I would imagine that if any PC noble actually climbed the ranks in the House, they would become an NPC...a great way to retire a character, yes, but still, that kind of responsibility can really throw things off kilter.  A lot of us don't really know how some of that stuff should work, so keeping it virtual isn't a bad thing, in my opinion.

[darksheep]

I agree with Lerl in that I think players should have a greater influence on the economy. More necessities should have to be provided by players. Although I know in game it makes sense for someone to join a House and be fed and paid and everything, I think it makes it too easy for someone to survive. I mean the only major danger that you face if all your basic needs are provided for you is death by some creature outside the city. I dunno...I guess what I'm trying to say is I know that it makes sense in game, but it makes things too easy. Just an opinion.

[Angela Christine]

Great idea.  :roll:  Now which 1/3 of the player base wants to volunteer to play the unskilled labour slaves that form the real basis of the economy?   Slaving away from dawn to dusk in the mines, farms, construction sites and other heavy labour projects sound like a tonne of fun, doesn't it?  This isn't including gladiators or indoor slaves that do the cooking, cleaning and maintenance of rich folks property, or trained craftsmen, scribes, etc., those are a smaller seperate group of skilled slaves.

The economy is maintained mainly by VNPCs because PCs wouldn't really want to do it.  Most of what goes into an economy is dull, which may be why so many people in RL hate their jobs.  If you have to be an accountant in RL you probably won't want to play one, complete with actually -doing- a House's books, in a game.  I certainly don't want to play a fry cook, a slave locked in the mines, or a dung collector.  
Besides the actions of PCs can and have had an affect on the economy out of all proportion to their numbers.  

For example, I remember once that due to IC events and manuverings a noble fell out of favor with the other PC nobles and templars of his city.  So when that noble communicated with the templarate via the lone PC templar, his proposals were communicated in a way that made them sound just a little more silly, a little more  frivilous and ill-planned.  Not many of his projects were approved, if they had been then more projects with his house's mark on them would have been visible to the public, so their status might have risen, at least in PC circles.  A subtle effect, but a real one.

Blackmoon was closed, at least in part, because their infuence and power in the world had become far greater than it was ment to be, and more than the numbers of people (including VNPCs) could really justify.  The actions and competence of the PC raiders made the clan into one that was absurdly powerful for a group of desperate raiders living on the edge of survival.  I guess they were victims of their own success.

On a smaller scale, a few crafters can completely corner any particular section of the market PC-wise.  If you get a few stonecarvers, it will be very difficult for a newbie stone worker to break in, because the established ones know how to get their supplies, which items sell for the greatest profit, and who buys them.  3 or 4 stone workers probably won't effect the world economy, or even the virtual economy of a given city, because there are hundreds or thousands of people working stone in the known world.  But they will have an impact on the PC economy, and that is the part that matters to PCs.

AC

[Timid]

Being part of an iso-clan for a good deal of time I often thought of ways to give folks jobs and such.  If your clan is low on raw materials (wood, stone, etc.) then it would be someone's job to go get it and bring it back.  Some sort of hard-coded number could reflect how much they'd acquired for their clan (and how much they need) and maybe they would get rewarded for the effort, in some way.  Sort of like selling to a merchant, only in this instance you'd be "turning in" raw materials although I suppose you could get coin just as if you were selling stuff to a merchant.

Just a thought.  I do think raw materials should not be taken for granted given the dangers and expense (and time) involved in gathering them.

[Anonymous]

Blackmoon was closed, at least in part, because their infuence and power in the world had become far greater than it was ment to be, and more than the numbers of people (including VNPCs) could really justify. The actions and competence of the PC raiders made the clan into one that was absurdly powerful for a group of desperate raiders living on the edge of survival. I guess they were victims of their own success.

That was one of the most well-said things I've ever read on this board.  I'm on record as missing blackmoon bigtime, but you are right.  The way I recall from when I was a member they only numbered in the hundreds, all told.

[Lerl]

I wasn't around for Blackmoon, but I would have agreed with the closing yet disappointed.

It would be much more interesting if resources were truly scarce, i.e a million less VNPCs (maybe have nearly all the water run out and make water creation via magic too hard).  Then maybe Blackmoon could have had an appropriate role.  Be even more interesting to see the Blackwing/Gypsies robbing and marching their people back to the Tuluk area/forest due to lack of water in the Tablelands/Gypsy home.  Robbing your food is certainly more interesting in potential than being given it for your virtual work.

Anyone ever see the movie Gangs of New York?  It was set in the 1890s and portrayed corrupt politicians, police, thugs, thieves, families, clans, and gangs in a way that I'd love to see in Armageddon.  Power was all about fear, not necessarily violence.  Personally it is boring that circumstances aren't dire enough that the sorcerer kings don't have to be walking around their cities in a futile struggle to barter in influence, power, and fear.

Rick/Lerl