Karma

[Abaddon]

I come from ApocalypseMUD, which I am told shares the same setting and codebase as this MUD. One particular nitpick I had with that game was karma and the guilds/races timegated behind it. I never understood why you would ask people to impress you for imaginary metacurrency before you let them play anything fun.

Does the Karma concept exist here, and if so, how?

[Kavrick]

I don't know if I'm supposed to reply to these questions as replies used to be staff locked iirc, but there is a karma system and it's getting reworked for seasons, you can read about it here: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,60314.0.html

[Abaddon]

I don't know if I'm supposed to reply to these questions as replies used to be staff locked iirc, but there is a karma system and it's getting reworked for seasons, you can read about it here: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,60314.0.html

While I found this discovery disappointing, it does answer the question. Thank you.

[Kavrick]

While I found this discovery disappointing, it does answer the question. Thank you.

I know this isn't the place for discussion, but my interpretation of it's purpose is due to certain roles requiring a deeper understanding of the setting and trust from staff. Magickers have a certain place in society, are expected to act a certain way and of course hold potentially more power than non-magicker pcs. I understand the dislike of it but I also understand the need of it.

Do keep in mind that you can do special applications to create characters above your current karma, if you want to try something new, it also means you can prove to staff that you can be trusted in a certain role. You can special app up to +4 karma from your current karma, which means it is possible to actually play a magick caster right off the bat!

Edit: Sorry, correction, you need 1 Karma to put in special apps, my bad.

[Abaddon]

While I found this discovery disappointing, it does answer the question. Thank you.

I know this isn't the place for discussion, but my interpretation of it's purpose is due to certain roles requiring a deeper understanding of the setting and trust from staff. Magickers have a certain place in society, are expected to act a certain way and of course hold potentially more power than non-magicker pcs. I understand the dislike of it but I also understand the need of it.

Do keep in mind that you can do special applications to create characters above your current karma, if you want to try something new, it also means you can prove to staff that you can be trusted in a certain role. You can special app up to +4 karma from your current karma, which means it is possible to actually play a magick caster right off the bat!

Edit: Sorry, correction, you need 1 Karma to put in special apps, my bad.

I'd be happy to continue the discussion in private or through appropriate forum, but I find having to impress staff just to even be eligible to put in those special applications cumbersome and more of a hindrance and demotivator than anything else.

Like, let me play those mages and quirky races. If my behavior isn't in line with community standard, they can just ban/strip away the player's ability to play as those classes/races, rather than proactively attempt and inhibit all attempts to do so.

[Lizzie]

It's a matter of accountability. It's not so much a matter of "earning a reward" as it is demonstrating that you understand the basic functions of the game and roleplay.

Because this is a roleplay intensive game, it would be INCREDIBLY jarring for a half-giant to show up at the bar, behaving like a perfectly intelligent, clever, educated person.  Or someone who chooses to play a fully manifested gemmed rukkian from Allanak, but doesn't know what it means to be a gemmed mage, because the player didn't read the docs, and has never played the game before so has zero experience that could provide him with that basic understanding needed to play that role.

I shouldn't have to report these things, neither should any other players. And it's not the job of staff to babysit everyone 24/7 to make sure they're living up to the potential of a role that they know nothing about.

You play the game for awhile, you get a point and can now play other stuff. You show a basic understanding of syntax and the game world, you get another point. You do more, you get more points. It's not a reward. It's unlocking options, because you've demonstrated that you understand more and more of the game.

It used to be arbitrary - staff would "reward" people for impressive roleplay, and that became problematic, with accusations of favoritism - sometimes justly accused. The karma system has gone through a few iterations over the years but by and large, its existence is preferable to a free-for-all.

[Abaddon]

It's a matter of accountability. It's not so much a matter of "earning a reward" as it is demonstrating that you understand the basic functions of the game and roleplay.

Because this is a roleplay intensive game, it would be INCREDIBLY jarring for a half-giant to show up at the bar, behaving like a perfectly intelligent, clever, educated person.  Or someone who chooses to play a fully manifested gemmed rukkian from Allanak, but doesn't know what it means to be a gemmed mage, because the player didn't read the docs, and has never played the game before so has zero experience that could provide him with that basic understanding needed to play that role.

I shouldn't have to report these things, neither should any other players. And it's not the job of staff to babysit everyone 24/7 to make sure they're living up to the potential of a role that they know nothing about.

You play the game for awhile, you get a point and can now play other stuff. You show a basic understanding of syntax and the game world, you get another point. You do more, you get more points. It's not a reward. It's unlocking options, because you've demonstrated that you understand more and more of the game.

It used to be arbitrary - staff would "reward" people for impressive roleplay, and that became problematic, with accusations of favoritism - sometimes justly accused. The karma system has gone through a few iterations over the years but by and large, its existence is preferable to a free-for-all.

That's understandable, but to players without karma who are already competent enough to know better, and want to play something besides Hunter NPC #921 or Sweatshop Worker #83, the arbitrary jumping of those hoops is annoying and tiresome. It compounds with the fact that I'm apparently not even worthy of Staff's time to be eligible of putting in a special application to plead that case until I've earned my first point of the game's metacurrency. It doesn't make me want to invest time into this game at all. Quite the contrary, actually.

[cnemus]

There are many roles that do not require karma.

Some are T'zai Byn mercenary, Arm of the Dragon militia, noble aide, PC tavern employee, affiliated criminal, and many others. All of the karma options actually limit your opportunities IG.

Depending somewhat on your personal playtime, the longevity award is quite easy to achieve on a single character.

My favorite characters have consistently been those that do not use karma. Most of the karma options actually limit where you can play, how you can play, or who you can play with. There is a lot more to Armageddon than the karma system. I hope it won't deter you and you'll come check us out.

[Riev]

I would add to Lizzie's post that not only are we checking to ensure people understand the roleplay and theme of the game, but we are also a perma-death game and plenty of the higher-karma "gated" roles have the ability to no-emote, no-RP kill someone's role.

There are no resurrections or do-overs. It would be unfair if a relative newbie were to come into the game, play a high-powered character and destroy people's fun and plot lines because they "didn't know".


I get not jumping through hoops, man. Trust me. I spent 20 (!) years in this game to earn the ability to have maximum "trust" with staff. And even that came with a caveat that I couldn't hold staff to a higher standard or be rude. The hoop jumping sucks, but in my mind the "death is final" stance makes me not want someone jumping from another game playing a special app half-giant sorceror who uses a magickal club with the soul of his best friend imbued. I kind of want them playing a couple half elves, a few humans.

[Lizzie]

There are also players who have karma, but never play anything other than 0-karma roles. Playing a human combat or merchant or crafting or stealth character requires no karma, yet any of those options can rise in the ranks and become incredibly influential. They could become a Templar's "Executor." They could become a boss in the Guild. They could become a noble's Senior Aide. They could become a skimmer captain, or destroy the city's enemies, or gain notoriety as a master assassin.

NONE of those roles require any karma at all.

[Tuannon]

They can do all that if they wanted to on 0 karma, and then not do it as a double foil to the hardcore plottists out there.

[Abaddon]

There are also players who have karma, but never play anything other than 0-karma roles. Playing a human combat or merchant or crafting or stealth character requires no karma, yet any of those options can rise in the ranks and become incredibly influential. They could become a Templar's "Executor." They could become a boss in the Guild. They could become a noble's Senior Aide. They could become a skimmer captain, or destroy the city's enemies, or gain notoriety as a master assassin.

NONE of those roles require any karma at all.

I've dabbled in roles of similar vein and flavor on ApocalypseMUD - most of them sound extremely badass on paper, but boil down to 'idle around until your Noble charge is around', or 'AFK until someone who opposes your city of choice's political compass pops up so you can harass them', or 'get paid to type 'backstab dumdum' on someone'.

It'd be cool if players had remotely any agency whatsoever. But from what I play on the other MUD, and from what I hear about this one, we don't.

But all your hospitality and nice comments are noted and appreciated. I doubt I'm going to be giving this a whirl, but hope to see you on the off chance I do!

EDIT: You say "destroy the city's enemies", but the city HAS no enemies, correct? The opposing city is entirely unsupported from what I know, and everyone in the currently accessible city is just in a vacuum.