What Delf Tribes would you like to see opened at the start?

[shadeoux]

The documentation says there are three open at any given time, so Ill choose my three. I am just interested in seeing what Delf tribes
people are wanting to play in, maybe help out the staff in the decision making process.

P.S.
They have to be non-virtual and already coded in the game to limit staffs need to change a lot.

Two Moons - Due to the close nature to Allanak they have.

Sun Runners - While I dislike them as a Delf clan, they would make sense because they are allowed in Allanak and would/could patrol the Pah.

Red Fangs - Because we can all use some dangermouse in the desert and it has been long enough, it's time for their return.

[Riev]

Allanak is going to need trade points AND enemies.

Two Moons is just Templarate Sponsored assassins, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Sun Runners are built on trade and are the most populous tribe after absorbing the remnants of the Fangs as well.

I would do something out of left field and either put effort in the Dune Stalkers to be antagonistic, or after 10 RL years or so ... rez the Silt Winds with someone born as a blood descendant of Shattered regrowing the clan over the last couple generations.

[Roon]

Will there even be d-elf tribes in season 1? I was under the impression that only Allanak-based clans would exist.

Maybe some could open up after a while, like in the second "chapter" of S1. However, I think it would be a shame if they're there from the start, because it'll be important to get as many people as possible in one place. Even if tribes are welcome in Allanak, they're not going to spend any real amount of time there. The tribes' documentation typically says that visiting the city is okay (for the tribes that can) but staying there is not. And with the rest of the world put into stasis, it's limited what a tribe can contribute to the city's roleplaying environment. It's not as if they'll be bringing exciting news from abroad.

If we're being honest, d-elf tribes are almost entirely irrelevant and have been for a long time. At best, they represent an arbitrary hazard to people visiting the Tablelands. It has been quite a few years since any tribe had a significant impact on the game and were a net positive for Armageddon. When tribes have between 0 and 3 players each, they just can't do much, and that has been the case for a long time. It's the kind of thing that might have worked when the game peaked at 60+ players.

It's the season of Allanak, the one big (and probably final) chance to really get the city to be all that it can be. This requires that most players buy into that and do what it takes to keep the wheels turning. If a bunch of people are out playing hunter-gatherer in various tribes, that's directly detrimental to the apparent goal of season 1. While there will always be some who prefer to play lone rangers and roam the world, or live in peace in Red Storm or wherever, I don't think further encouraging it with tribes is the right move.

I want to see no tribes open at the start, and then as time goes on and playing in Allanak over and over again becomes understandably tiresome, maybe it'll be time to add tribes.

[Tuannon]

Whoever it is/was who hunt down irresponsible magickers primarily, the Two Moons are too far under Allanaki sway and will never leave the place of being 'protectors of Allanak' in my mind. It was kind of funny to see it degenerate from 'do us favours but ask your own' to 'wait for instructions', but anyway.

I don't think the Sun Runners should instantly get a pass and be included, they're kind of eh.

And Blackwing is too far away, so maybe just three iterations of Dune wardens.

[dumbstruck]

I'm not a fan of the way I see/have seen most of the elves actually play out in any Dark Sun setting.

I think don't open tribes except perhaps Vru'Rihali and Two Moons. Because those are the tribes in the Vrun, and so make the most sense for the opening premise. I know the Rihali are humans. But they're still a tribe that lives in the desert near Allanak. If the Al'Seik still had their camp set up three rooms outside of Allanak's gates I'd be mentioning them for the same.

[Tuannon]

Historically, the Al'Seik have reason to avoid Allanak for a bit.

[Krath]

Silt Winds
Two Moons
Dune Stalkers

Updated: Forgot about Silt Winds

[Dresan]

Two Moons is just Templarate Sponsored assassins, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

I know my 'rinth city elf did not trust two moons, and voiced his thoughts that they were in league with the templars a few times. This is certainly an IC problem for them, balancing out the need for protection that comes from being with Allanak with the need to be  free and fully independent.  Being thought up as templar pets does have impact on how people treat them for better or worse, on top of elven pride and all. Again an 'IC problem' as far as I am concerned, that comes with benefits and downsides for the players who try those roles.

I think two moons and sun runners work well and have been successful D-elven tribes. The problem with d-elf tribes is their location to everyone else, 'the Pah'. I was really disappointed thsa Gith wars did little to solve this but I think outside of a season format, the game always had trouble implementing notable changes to the setting. I made a post about it at the time but the idea was the gith wars could have pushed elven and human tribes out of the Pah, and into the red desert and areas between luirs and allanak to survive.

With seasons I would push the original idea even further, the old blackwing outpost destroyed, human and elven tribes begin to poor into luirs. With the merchant houses seeing less value and risk at keeping Luirs for a variety of reasons they eventually take a deal to sell holdings of luirs to an alliance of the elf and human tribes with the condition they can still operate there similar to redstorm. Luirs would become run by this alliance of large tribes, while players would stick to playing small delf and human tribes that have no ownership but live around luirs or in the desert between it and Allanak. Luirs would be the last backstop preventing the gith from flowing out of the Pah, with many tribes launching campaigns to try to push back the hordes of gith or just trying to keep them in check.

This would make Luirs truly neutral place to play from or stay in, while at the same time bringing delf and human playable tribes  smack between the two city states, where they are more likely to encounter city players. Not all human and delf tribes would adapts and end up being destroyed, but many would and would be added to playable tribes for players. A lot of design decisions in this game have not promoted integration, rather isolation and niche styles of playing, size of the map doesn't matter, but points of interest do, and by making luirs a common point of interest for not just human and delf tribe but everyone else looking to trade or find refuge you make for a melting pot of interaction.

To answer the original question:

• Two moon
• Sun runners
• Any other delf tribe with flexibility to enter towns and city to trade and make merry.

[eska]

I would like to see Sand Jakhals back.
But for the first season I think Red Fangs and SLK would be good additions. 

[Dracul]

I like the idea of seeing the gith resurgence as the pah adversary and two moons for being adjacent to allanak, and for the third it'd be nice to see one that can range from trade to violence.

Sun Runners, Two Moons, and Gith

[shadeoux]

I love that the Gith is a common interest among several players.

I would like to say as an antagonist tribal group, the Gith and Red Fangs are undisputed winners in my opinion. Though Crimson Winds, while not really tribal in nature, would also be a decent group to add... I cant wait to hear what staff decides to run with, if any.

[Dresan]

I love that the Gith is a common interest among several players.

Both Gith and Red Fangs were minor annoyances to the city states, the only real antagonist for city states is each other.

For anyone living or operating near the Pah at the time of the Gith wars, the Gith were a true menace. If the Gith had taken over the Pah, either city state would have had to most likely set up regular culling runs with their armies to keep the gith population in check and to keep them from infesting other areas like rats. No one city state would be willing to invest the time and resources to completely obliterate the Gith in the Pah and properly solve the problem. Instead just willing to deal with the symptoms from time to time to keep it from being problematic.

Instead Gith Wars fizzled out, and things went back to normal as other story lines took its place. A lost opportunity sadly.

[Krath]

Facts.

[LindseyBalboa]

dune stalkers.

[HazelHomewrecker]

Any elf tribe that could reasonably interact with the plots without having to go through some convoluted back-bend justification to be in the area, so...

Two Moons
Sun Runners
Dune Stalkers (kind of?)
Red Fang

3/4 of those options have reasonable cause to be around the Vrun Driath, causing problems. I'm not familiar with the DS, I've never played one.

[whengravityfails]

Sun Runners
Dune Stalkers
Two Moons

Silt Winds would be cool if they're able to be rezzed without much trouble.

[Kavrick]

If we're being honest, d-elf tribes are almost entirely irrelevant and have been for a long time. At best, they represent an arbitrary hazard to people visiting the Tablelands. It has been quite a few years since any tribe had a significant impact on the game and were a net positive for Armageddon. When tribes have between 0 and 3 players each, they just can't do much, and that has been the case for a long time. It's the kind of thing that might have worked when the game peaked at 60+ players.

I find this a bigger issue with the more isolated tribes. With the game's current numbers, clans like DS and SLK just aren't very good for interaction. I think in the entire year that I played, I had about three interactions with  both of those tribes. I understand that some people enjoy those clans to play inside them but are clans who's whole shtick 'we're secret stabby elves' particularly good for the game right now? I'm all for clans like Two Moons and the Sun Runners as 'social' elf tribes that are a net gain for the game overall, but if staff are looking for a more 'dense' experience where there's lots of interaction, I think delf clans that's experience consists of specifically not interacting with outsiders are a bad idea.

[Riev]

I understand that some people enjoy those clans to play inside them but are clans who's whole shtick 'we're secret stabby elves' particularly good for the game right now? I'm all for clans like Two Moons and the Sun Runners as 'social' elf tribes that are a net gain for the game overall, but if staff are looking for a more 'dense' experience where there's lots of interaction, I think delf clans that's experience consists of specifically not interacting with outsiders are a bad idea.

This is precisely why I was/am okay with the idea of the Sun Runners being an elf tribe opened at the beginning. Not that I particularly find their documentation or world placement INTERESTING, but right now we do not need more races and play-areas with documented "we don't interact with 80% of the playerbase".

Thryzn. SLK. Akei (North, but still). Elves need to have a reason to interact with Allanak as the main focus. Maybe not FORCED interaction, but a reason to go there and trade information, items, and blood.

[Lotion]

Open Gith is really fun.

[Kavrick]

Open Gith is really fun.

I think both gith and mantis are completely wasted races in Armageddon. Right now, armageddon only really has the dynamic between Elves and Humans, which can be fun but is pretty limited. Dwarves are a slave race with no culture, half-giants also have no culture, nor muls. Having different intelligent races with their own cultures and beliefs interact is one of the big draws of fantasy in my opinion. Most fantasy settings have dwarves, orcs, humans, goblins, elves, gnomes, halflings and all sorts of minor races to bounce off of eachother and create interesting interactions but Arm only has two, which is a shame.

Even if they can't really bring in stuff like orcs, goblins and gnomes, it would be cool to
a. Give dwarves their own culture and stop them being a bit of a footnote of just being 'slaves to humans'
b. Open up races like gith and mantis to create more interesting interactions and options for roleplay.

[Bogre]

Silt Winds
Sand Jakhals

[Lotion]

b. Open up races like gith and mantis to create more interesting interactions and options for roleplay.

From what I've heard the RP requirements for mantis made them nearly unplayable as they aren't really intelligent singular creatures.

[Kavrick]

From what I've heard the RP requirements for mantis made them nearly unplayable as they aren't really intelligent singular creatures.

I guess I can kinda understand that? I don't know a massive amount about the mantis because I've had basically no interaction with them outside of 'kill mantis'. I do know a little more about the thri-keen from dark sun though, and they have the whole thing where a thri-keen can become disconnected from it's hive and become independent.

[eska]

Allanak focused season should not restrict players to Vrun Driath. If every playable tribe is selected from Vrun, there will be less conflict/interaction when people move to other regions. I believe a few aggressive tribes based on Tablelands and Red Desert would be better addition to the gameplay in the coming season.

[Kavrick]

Allanak focused season should not restrict players to Vrun Driath. If every playable tribe is selected from Vrun, there will be less conflict/interaction when people move to other regions. I believe a few aggressive tribes based on Tablelands and Red Desert would be better addition to the gameplay in the coming season.

Wouldn't accommodating people to play outside the vrun completely defeat the purpose of staff wanting the game to be focused on the vrun? I thought the idea was to consolidate the players within a certain area of the game.

[Foulspawn]

I think that Two Moons and Sun Runners would probably fit the best, with Red Fangs if you really want to sprinkle in antagonism. Given the more restricted scope, I feel like anything outside of Vrun and its general regions would split the playerbase a bit too much.

[Riev]

Allanak focused season should not restrict players to Vrun Driath. If every playable tribe is selected from Vrun, there will be less conflict/interaction when people move to other regions. I believe a few aggressive tribes based on Tablelands and Red Desert would be better addition to the gameplay in the coming season.

Wouldn't accommodating people to play outside the vrun completely defeat the purpose of staff wanting the game to be focused on the vrun? I thought the idea was to consolidate the players within a certain area of the game.

IANS (I am not staff) but I don't think the intention was specifically to consolidate players as much as it was to focus storylines and support in Allanak. I personally think that Halaster's plan is to bring back staff-level storytelling and an overall story arc for the game that has been lacking.

So its not focusing Allanak to make people play Allanak as much as it is to give one region of the game intense attention at this point in time.