Seasons Q&A

[papertiger]

This is more of a wish for long-term plot design fundamentals, of which has an underlying understanding that players will talk amongst themselves as players about the cool events they are engaging with.  And when a player talks to another player, the "cheating" or "In-Character actions based on Out-Of-Character knowledge" that can happen will be something that ultimately can't ruin the plot.  Build the world plot that can withstand players using OOC information in-game, and when the players cheat it doesn't actually affect the game plot.

I get your intent but I do enjoy the super secret hush hush things that I've been able to learn. I've learned things by using listen and spread them to others, getting myself awkwardly tangled at least in a minor way in plots my character otherwise wouldn't be exposed to. Its always fun when I get different chunks of the story but cant work out how they fit together. It makes me feel like networking is important and I like that. Its a risk for my soldier buddy to spill secrets and a risk for me to hear them.

I just hope they'd protect some of that mystery for us. I know its a balance because getting too secretive can cut people off from engaging with the world plot. It *does* feel a bit like plot is in little pockets or stuck behind ranks or clans and can be difficult to penetrate. Your idea could help everyone feel more included. I suppose there could be a way to maintain some secrets. (So and so is a mindworm gasp, did you hear bro guy is on the wrong side of the Guild, that gemmed got turned into a newt and sacrificed to Jim the Templar for extra power etc)

[Norcal]

Fredd and I have both posted similar comments in this thread and I have yet to see any substantial answers.

If the game is to survive, then this transition will need to be managed very well.  Otherwise your work is in vain.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET US BACK? There must be a clear and tangible program of player retention in place, before you shut down the game.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP US INVESTED, ENGAGED AND EXCITED DURING THE TRANSITION? Details please.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH US DURING THE TRANSITION?  YOU MUST KEEP US INFORMED. It should not be up to us to hunt you down or come to the GDB or Discord.  Communication should be regular, informative and engaging.

If you do not have answers to these questions, then you have moved too soon and are moving too fast.

[Lizzie]

Re the building thing - as I've said often since this was announced, my only significant "problem" with this situation is the down-time. And so, to minimize it for myself personally I said I would offer to return to staff as a builder. Because that'd mean - while the game was closed to players, it'd still be open for me to build! It was me, offering a solution to my own personal concern. They don't have to take me up on it and might not need anyone to do it. Or they might need people and pick someone else.

I just threw it out there since I'd already been a builder, and I'd been on staff, and would rather build on the closed-to-player game, than not be in the game at all for a couple of months.

[betweenford]

Re the building thing - as I've said often since this was announced, my only significant "problem" with this situation is the down-time. And so, to minimize it for myself personally I said I would offer to return to staff as a builder. Because that'd mean - while the game was closed to players, it'd still be open for me to build! It was me, offering a solution to my own personal concern. They don't have to take me up on it and might not need anyone to do it. Or they might need people and pick someone else.

I just threw it out there since I'd already been a builder, and I'd been on staff, and would rather build on the closed-to-player game, than not be in the game at all for a couple of months.

I distinctly remember Halaster supporting this but I could be wrong, been a couple of days and I've since left the discord.

[papertiger]

Would the staff please consider telling us where the current active plots are centered and supported and what clans (loosely) are involved once you nail down a set date for closing? I'm on a relatively fresh character but would like to support ongoing ending plots.

I figure you're essentially doing this anyway with Seasons (consolidating players) so I figured I'd ask.

[Usiku]

Yeah.  I'll make up an example.
Build the world plot that can withstand players using OOC information in-game, and when the players cheat it doesn't actually affect the game plot.

I think trying to craft a metaplot with the requirement that cheating couldn't possibly spoil it would be incredibly creatively limiting. We do not intend to spill the entire plot up front, I imagine you will get something akin to a book blurb and you will need to play the game to experience the story, and the plot will unfold in different directions based on player action.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET US BACK?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP US INVESTED, ENGAGED AND EXCITED DURING THE TRANSITION?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH US DURING THE TRANSITION?  YOU MUST KEEP US INFORMED.

• By crafting a game and experience that you want to come back and play.
• It is not our intent to keep you engaged during the entire break, though we will keep you updated via an opt-in email newsletter.
• We will update via the opt-in email newsletter. Closer to launch we will be sending out newsletters as well as updating the website, GDB and posting on platforms such as reddit.

Would the staff please consider telling us where the current active plots are centered and supported and what clans (loosely) are involved once you nail down a set date for closing? I'm on a relatively fresh character but would like to support ongoing ending plots.

I will have a chat with the Admins and see if we can update the roles GDB thread to point people towards the clans/areas that need PCs to help drive forward the currently active plots.

[Fredd]

Yeah.  I'll make up an example.
Build the world plot that can withstand players using OOC information in-game, and when the players cheat it doesn't actually affect the game plot.

I think trying to craft a metaplot with the requirement that cheating couldn't possibly spoil it would be incredibly creatively limiting. We do not intend to spill the entire plot up front, I imagine you will get something akin to a book blurb and you will need to play the game to experience the story, and the plot will unfold in different directions based on player action.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET US BACK?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP US INVESTED, ENGAGED AND EXCITED DURING THE TRANSITION?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH US DURING THE TRANSITION?  YOU MUST KEEP US INFORMED.

• By crafting a game and experience that you want to come back and play.
• It is not our intent to keep you engaged during the entire break, though we will keep you updated via an opt-in email newsletter.
• We will update via the opt-in email newsletter. Closer to launch we will be sending out newsletters as well as updating the website, GDB and posting on platforms such as reddit.

Would the staff please consider telling us where the current active plots are centered and supported and what clans (loosely) are involved once you nail down a set date for closing? I'm on a relatively fresh character but would like to support ongoing ending plots.

I will have a chat with the Admins and see if we can update the roles GDB thread to point people towards the clans/areas that need PCs to help drive forward the currently active plots.

Well, an opt in newsletter is at least SOMETHING. I can't say it's the best answer. But I can accept that.

[Triskelion]

I think trying to craft a metaplot with the requirement that cheating couldn't possibly spoil it would be incredibly creatively limiting.

Metaplots don't have to include secrets as central elements of the narrative. The copper war (the first one, not whatever this recent imitation was) is often hailed as one of the high points of Armageddon's history, and it didn't really depend on trusting players not to share secrets. If anything, I think it would be a mistake to base a gamewide metaplot on secrets that players are expected to keep to themselves, because that's kind of boring and non-inclusive. A metaplot should be something everyone can find out about and get involved with. Leave the secrets to smaller player-run plots.

[650Booger]

just a question for my own curiosity
was Arm purchased by the current producers?  or was it given to them for free, by previous owners?

in my opinion, the first implies ownership.  do whatever you want with the game.  turn it off, turn it back on again, change it to a wet tropical world rather than a desert.

The second implies stewardship.  Keep this thing that has existed for a few decades going with minimal interference or change.

love our staff.  have played Arm for years.  have had lots of good fun here.  again, just curious.

[roughneck]

This seems like a lot of work. My questions for staff would be:

1. Why is it worth the effort to you as individuals? What will keep you motivated 6 weeks into a building a game that players may not return to (I mean, they probably will, but it this is a big undertaking for no pay)?

2. What is your expected outcome? Specifics, in terms of world size, active player count, culture, etc.

3. Is this really the ONLY way to achieve the result you're looking for?

I guess I understand the feelings involved, but I don't see how this will change anything.

From a personal experience standpoint, I'll say that I continue to play Armageddon because I am so familiar with it. I don't have time to relearn all the geography, insta-kill rooms, creature behaviour etc etc etc. I don't have the time to relearn this shit every 6 to 12 months. I often only have 20 or 30 minutes to play at a time. If there is too much I'll have to relearn with every "season", I may not be able to invest what it takes to do it.

[Cabooze]

Let's imagine a big box game that doesn't allow its playerbase to even play during 'transitionary periods' between one big storyline to the next. You're hoping their investment of 30-70 dollars retains their interest- and sometimes it does. But most the time? It doesn't. And that's WITH their continued ability to play. They just move onto the next thing and spend their money on that instead, when there's a large enough lull.

But this isn't a big box game. It's a free game in a dwindling pond of other free games that AREN'T taking this approach. It seems as if there's full expectation of a Pavlovian response by the player-base, when in reality, it's just going to end up upsetting people that want to be able to play on their own time - not when the time is allotted to them for the next 'chapter'.

My question: What made this seem like such a good idea to reduce workload or what-have-you? Because it's not going to.

Another question: Why not have this seasonal experience overlap with the game at-large?

There's enough magic in the gameworld to be able to explain a handful of characters getting yoinked out of the present timeline to participate in whatever's going on, only to then get plopped back into reality afterwards (maybe remembering what happened, or maybe not). Keep the main game up and run the seasonal stuff on the side.

Then again, I haven't even played the game seriously for some time. There was a point in which things devolved past the point of a low-RP environment, where I still can find better roleplay quality within a hack/slash MOO.

[Miradus]

Will we be allowed to have our own plotlines during these 'seasons'? Even if they run contrary-to or actively against the sanctioned season plotline?

[Usiku]

was Arm purchased by the current producers?  or was it given to them for free, by previous owners?

Consider it like the passing of a CEO position. No it was not purchased, but there is no requirement or mandate for 'no change. Yes, we consider ourselves the stewards of its preservation and that is what we are doing.

1. Why is it worth the effort to you as individuals? What will keep you motivated 6 weeks into a building a game that players may not return to (I mean, they probably will, but it this is a big undertaking for no pay)?

2. What is your expected outcome? Specifics, in terms of world size, active player count, culture, etc.

3. Is this really the ONLY way to achieve the result you're looking for?

• Because we love this game and world and we want it to endure. If you think maintaining the motivation to work on it during a break is hard, can you imagine how hard it is to maintain the motivation to work on it whilst simultaneously exposed to a constant input of negativity and complaints? If we can do the latter, we can do the former.
• A more focussed area for STs to manage with a supported world size that can handle a lower playerbase and would absolutely rock with a higher player base. An improved culture that will help us to attract new players and increase the player base - ultimately.
• It's the only way that we can think of that also ticks off the other requirements that are important to us (e.g. not permanently destroying areas of the game etc).

My question: What made this seem like such a good idea to reduce workload or what-have-you? Because it's not going to.

Another question: Why not have this seasonal experience overlap with the game at-large?

• You seem to have answered that question yourself so I guess you don't need me to.
• That sounds absolutely bonkers, we can't support the current game, how would we support the current game plus overlapping it with another instance? I think you have missed what we are trying to achieve here.

Will we be allowed to have our own plotlines during these 'seasons'? Even if they run contrary-to or actively against the sanctioned season plotline?

Yes, you will just need to play within the bounds of the sandbox created for the Season.

[betweenford]

1. Why is it worth the effort to you as individuals? What will keep you motivated 6 weeks into a building a game that players may not return to (I mean, they probably will, but it this is a big undertaking for no pay)?

2. What is your expected outcome? Specifics, in terms of world size, active player count, culture, etc.

3. Is this really the ONLY way to achieve the result you're looking for?

• Because we love this game and world and we want it to endure. If you think maintaining the motivation to work on it during a break is hard, can you imagine how hard it is to maintain the motivation to work on it whilst simultaneously exposed to a constant input of negativity and complaints? If we can do the latter, we can do the former.

The game would have probably endured without the new changes.
Alot of the complaints that constantly filter in wouldn't have been made if there wasn't such a disregard towards player input and current living pc's.

It probably would've been easier to keep your motivation to work on the game if there were dozens more people playing it, the server was up, and people weren't complaining because their characters' stories are being ended en masse.

Pretty much every change that staff have proposed so far could've been implemented with a break, changeup, etc, all without actually doing a pwipe, various pr nightmare behaviors, disregarding the input of your lower staff, disregarding players, and failing to maintain a cohesive story amongst higher staff.

If you make your bed you can lay in it.

[papertiger]

Will there be any adjustment to the placements of creatures? In some ways this happens in Arm (sort of not really), but there are so many city centers currently that the zoning must get difficult.
In most games creatures scale in difficulty the further away from the start you get or are somewhat locked by hard to reach places. That hasn't seemed the case with Arma. I know that may seem like a gamey request and might remove some "realism", but it would be nice for newer players to get an experience thats more in line with how most other games work. Older players of course can navigate this better.

Sorry if this suggestion/question makes older players mad *hide*

[betweenford]

Will there be any adjustment to the placements of creatures? In some ways this happens in Arm (sort of not really), but there are so many city centers currently that the zoning must get difficult.
In most games creatures scale in difficulty the further away from the start you get or are somewhat locked by hard to reach places. That hasn't seemed the case with Arma. I know that may seem like a gamey request and might remove some "realism", but it would be nice for newer players to get an experience thats more in line with how most other games work. Older players of course can navigate this better.

Sorry if this suggestion/question makes older players mad *hide*

Personally I think the animal -spawns- around allanak are fine. But they do roam quite a bit, sometimes unpredictably.

Now, staff would need to introduce a bunch of herbs around Allanak, its shops, or Underneath it so ppl could actually empower bloodburn in the southlands.

[papertiger]

Personally I think the animal -spawns- around allanak are fine. But they do roam quite a bit, sometimes unpredictably.

Now, staff would need to introduce a bunch of herbs around Allanak, its shops, or Underneath it so ppl could actually empower bloodburn in the southlands.

I suppose I was thinking more Red Storm and Tuluk for this for future seasons. Or if we get seasons in places like the tribes or something?

[Usiku]

We have been slowly changing animals spawns over from hard-saved spawns to being spawned in by simdesert lite which adds some randomness (within defined parameters) to spawns along with being able to control things like certain animals only loading into certain areas at certain times of the year and so on. It's possible that as we focus on different areas some of the critters may get this treatment. No promises though!

[Halaster]

Will we be allowed to have our own plotlines during these 'seasons'? Even if they run contrary-to or actively against the sanctioned season plotline?

Yes.  We intend to direct staff to spend some portion of their time focused on furthering player-started plots/events/goals.

[Halaster]

Well, an opt in newsletter is at least SOMETHING. I can't say it's the best answer. But I can accept that.

What would you say is the best answer (to keeping the playerbase informed during the closure)?  We're open to other ideas for that.

[Triskelion]

Can't you just post updates in Staff Announcements? Seems like the straight-forward solution.

[Halaster]

Can't you just post updates in Staff Announcements? Seems like the straight-forward solution.

Can do both!

[Fredd]

Well, an opt in newsletter is at least SOMETHING. I can't say it's the best answer. But I can accept that.

What would you say is the best answer (to keeping the playerbase informed during the closure)?  We're open to other ideas for that.

Honestly? I don't know. But you guys have at least given me the framework of something. And I feel a bit better knowing that.


Actually on second thought. A rough estimate of when to expect season 1 to be, so we can pay attention to said outlets at that time. And maybe work on our end to spread the message and bring in more players.

I think that with the framework you provided would be about the best you can get out of the current situation.

[Usiku]

We're working on putting together estimates for timelines at the moment. We're working through a lot of requests from folks about their current plots and plans and that will help us to inform how long we should stay open initially, which is a big part of the overall timeline.

[Norcal]

Well, an opt in newsletter is at least SOMETHING. I can't say it's the best answer. But I can accept that.

What would you say is the best answer (to keeping the playerbase informed during the closure)?  We're open to other ideas for that.

1.Have regular (every couple weeks at first) live chats on discord or somewhere, so that we can ask questions and keep informed.  Use email to invite us.
2.Solicit player contributions for specific plots or sub plots, items, room descriptions, etc. Involve us in some meaningful way in the creation of the new game.
3.Call out to those of us who are vetran or experienced players, to already come up with chars that will fit into plots.  Like advance roll calls. This will keep us excited and tuned in.
4.Involve us in outreach to players who may have left and/or in publicity for the new game.