New thread to discuss Advanced start for Arm/Byn/Legion mundanes

[Cowboy]

My guess is there's a dozen or more players currently playing mundanes in these three outfits. ( I am one) I suspect many of them may not be too happy with  the timing of this new method of increasing membership () in the these units.  Or maybe this isn't being done to increase players in these outfits.  Someone in the know can answer that.  Why can't current characters get the same boosts, if they haven't reached the levels yet?   So.. what current players have to look forward to?  An increase in Troopers, Legionaires and Arm Privates, most with much better stats than current players.  Maybe the influx will allow current players to grind, again, with higher skilled characters. But will higher skill characters want to only want to train with Corporals and Sergeants and LTs?  I don't know.  Time will tell.  What do you think?

[Patuk]

I think, given the time it takes any specapp to resolve, by the time you're gonna see the actual results of this stuff you'll long be promoted anyway. It just isn't gonna be an issue like that.

[Lutagar]

It's rough, but it's better than the alternative which is the cities being empty because everyone's using their spec app to play as wilderness mages. We might actually see the cities come to life.

That said I do think it's unfortunate that the staff's answer to the dead city question is coded bribes instead of making the cities and clans within it naturally fun to play in, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

[WarriorPoet]

I hope that, instead of saying 'But I have been grinding...', players in such a position can be grateful that these new charscters don't have to eat the grind. And in the future, there is a path where they won't have to eat it either.

Good decision. 100%. Said it before: Less grind. More gangster shit. Tell those stories.

[zealus]

There will be advantages to being established as a PC that no amount of skill bumps can cover. And yes. Better opponents means better grind for you. If they only want to spar the other high skill PCs, that's really not their decision.

[Halaster]

In this post:  https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58988.msg1087634.html#msg1087634

Bebop said

Things That I Like:

Incentivizes in-city gameplay
Lessens the grind
Makes sense that combat soldiers would be beefier
Uses the special app slot so would presumably be only available once a year and not overly saturated
I like the idea of trading an IG commitment to participate in a clan for awhile for skill boost

Things That I Don't Like:

I feel like if this uses a special app slot people probably won't use this over say a sorcerer or something shinier
The special application processes is renowned for taking weeks, you'd likely want this lined up well in advance

Things I Would Consider:

I have played a Templar in the past and I want to say we got very similar boosts to combat abilities, starting at journeyman etc, if mundane special apps are going to be this boosted from the gate, consider taking Templars and other sponsored roles up a notch at start of play

Mixed feelings on the Byn having access to this when they already have more access to consistent pcs and training, giving them further coded advantage

I like that this lessens the grind, but I'm not sure boosting people from the jump is the best way to go and how it will effect the meta in a world where there are already a lot of OP pcs.  I personally, would really like to advocate for skills passively increasing over time at a rate of 1/3 skills raise when they are being actively used.  But... this is a start to addressing the grind for sure.

I've moved it here since that is discussion and I want to keep that other thread 'clean' just for questions.

[Halaster]

I hope that, instead of saying 'But I have been grinding...', players in such a position can be grateful that these new charscters don't have to eat the grind. And in the future, there is a path where they won't have to eat it either.

This is the right attitude, in my opinion.

The reason for this isn't really about trying to get more people into the cities, although it is likely going to help.  The reason for this is to help address The Grind for people who want to skip a part of it.  It's something we've been asked for a lot.

[Pariah]

I like it, as nobody likes the Grind part of it.

And I understand this part I'm about to bring up might not be able to be addressed.

But years ago I applied for a Sergeant role in the legion, I had all the Sergeant bumps and such done to me as they were supposed to be done.

I then went out and patrolled the road with some of my soldiers, and got my ass BEAT by Gortoks despite the boost to skill.  I think that offense/defense need to be bumped moreso than weapon skill, because anyone who's played a stalker pretty long will tell you that even high apprentice skill with good offense/defense will kill most things you run into.

Might be something to look at if you guys don't already fluff that up too.

But I'm certainly happy, I also made a snide comment in a previous post about how long spec apps take, then looked at the release history for the past few weeks and have to give you guys Kudos on that.  Last time I looked it was like 20-30 days, now it's looking like you get to them in 5-10 days which is god damn phenominal.

That said, do I think I'll wanna waste a spec app on a no grind Bynner?  That's still up in the air.

[Brytta Léofa]

I'm stoked about this. I will definitely use the Byn option when I'm ready to spend more time on the game.

[Tuannon]

The only issue I can see is Trooper Amos who has ground his way up from rawest Runner _might_ feel supplanted by a new transfer from a warband he has never heard of.

Might lead to a cool story arc or a shitmugging.

[BadSkeelz]

90% of the time those PCs wind up not going anywhere and store in a month, while Trooper Amos just keeps trucking and eventually gets promoted.

[Gunnerblaster]

Considering that these types of roles tend to have a violent turn-over rate, owing to just bad luck, it'd be nice if maybe the Special Application would be "refunded" if the player dies before their 2 month's is up.

I would be pretty embittered to Special App for a role that tends to have a high fatality rate, such as a Byn Trooper, only to go out on my first or second contract with the Unit, in hopes of encouraging more player attendance, etc. - Only to get jumped and killed in 3 rounds of combat by a horde of hidden spiders.

[Pariah]

I wish it didn't use a special app, maybe some other limited resource but spec-apps are for magickers!

Maybe have two no-grind characters a year and two spec apps?

[Veselka]

I'll definitely be using this on my next PC, and likely many PCs going forward.

I tend to play long lived characters, if they don't get got in the first 5 days played. Not that I play safe, I just tend to prioritize endurance Lots of near misses, 1-10hp left encounters and so on, but live to fight another day. I also tend to play combat heavy characters.

I do appreciate that the new classes, particularly heavy combat, skill up faster and start off better. BUT -- Being able to jump into a story, and not needing to grind, is definitely appealing to me as I near age 40 and have a kid and more on the way (probably). I like the idea that I can burn one of two special applications if I get a hankering to jump back into ArmageddonMUD after taking a lengthy break.

I think that's a net positive for the game, because if it is clearly advertised (think MOTD, and an email blast to past and current players), you might see a surprising amount of old players jump back into the game.

I'd heartily recommend Staff utilize email marketing in this respect. Lay out instructions for how to apply for these in the email, and welcome back old players to try jumping back in to Zalanthas.

Not much to lose. A lot to gain.

Title the email "Your new character in ArmageddonMUD has been approved!' for click bait

[Tranquil]

I like this.

I've apped a few troopers/privates/whatever's before via special app, but I always got very inconsistent set-ups (skills, ranks, uniform). Good to see it standardized.

Though personally I wouldn't make this a special app. I'd put it automatically into chargen, even, if that's possible.

[roughneck]

This is a great option. Props to staff for putting it in place.

[Barsook]

This is a great option. Props to staff for putting it in place.

[Bogre]

OK my suggestions to make the tier 1 / tier 2 roles more equivalent but also unique:


Tier 1:
Moderate boosts to off/def
Two weapons raised to high journeyman
Two fighting styles (two-handed, dual wield, or shield use) raised to high journeyman
Parry to high journeyman
Kick, bash, disarm, rescue, guarding, riposte and hack all raised to journeyman/advanced
One ranged weapon to journeyman
Ride to journeyman
Minor boost to two "other" skills.

Tier 2:
Moderate boosts to off/def
One weapon raised to high journeyman
One fighting style (two-handed, dual wield, or shield use) raised to high journeyman
Parry to low journeyman
Kick, bash, bandage, scan, rescue, guarding, all raised to journeyman/advanced
One ranged weapon to journeyman
Ride to advanced
Moderate boost to three "other" skills.


Things that this maintains: Tier 1 starting with higher off/def, since I think they start baseline with higher, and also will gain faster. They have broader up front combat abilities, but this also makes tier 2 enticing with pretty reasonable combat skills (to the degree a tier 2 character can get with a reasonable time played), and some starting utility stuff that can be helpful to their clan.

[Veselka]

I would even make it moderate boost to 4 other skills, and lower some of the combat stuff. They should be squishier than their Tier 1 Compatriots.

I like 'One Weapon' raised to high journeyman, as it makes you less defensive against other styles (if you don't have good chopping, then chopping chop you up).

Overall I like all of it, i'm sure it will get tweaked as it goes along.

This is also a smart way to entice people to play in cities, as it is for the Byn and city Militia Clans.

[Dresan]

I don't think I have ever submitted a special app, but must admit this is the first time I would be tempted. Do we still get three special apps a year?

That said, two months active in a clan is a steep price but i guess we can leave afterwards so it wouldn't be that bad. With any luck we can find other special apped people to train with for a while. I believe it was mentioned that these bonuses will mirrored some combat sponsored roles get? I like that.   

I guess to add my voice to the choir, I would like to see this become an automated option at creation since I can definately see this being very popular.

As a minor point, a small wish would be to be able to choose between boosting two weapons to journeyman high, in exchange for boosting one weapon to low-mid advanced, but again minor want

[Kryos]

The man who constantly plays tier 1 combatant type characters says, in mercenary accented player:
"Good change."

[whengravityfails]

This is a great option. Props to staff for putting it in place.

Agreed. This is a pretty neat addition to skip the grind.

[Lutagar]

- Minor boost to two "other" skills.  Examples would be hunting, direction sense, skinning, clothworking, etc.  Again, a skill you start with only.

Can this be used for combat skills or is it only for non-combat skills?

[Lotion]

i think it shows how differently the people who designed that option and i value a specapp slot. with my current account state (karma, account notes, etc.) i would never spend a specapp on such an option due do the hefty opportunity cost. i think it is probably more comparatively valuable when compared to the things a specapp would give to a zero or three karma player

[Halaster]

- Minor boost to two "other" skills.  Examples would be hunting, direction sense, skinning, clothworking, etc.  Again, a skill you start with only.

Can this be used for combat skills or is it only for non-combat skills?

non-combat