The dichotomy - Fun vs Roleplay and making them work.

[Pariah]

So most of this is going be from my own experience with sprinklings of assumption (with positive intent) and guesswork as I don't even think Staff can truly see what is going on in front of your computer screens.

Alright so I love Arm for the setting right, the world, the magick, the lore, the sekrets and all that.  And as I've stated before I tend to be more focused on the PVE type environment but not 100%.  Otherwise I'd just ranger quit out in the wild every day and only enter towns to sell shit and rock on out.  I do enjoy the social aspects, but not for the sake of being social, for the sake of interest and collaboration in which I can find a way to be that guy I like to be.  This is why I almost always am some flavor of survival character.

That being said, and I think I've felt this way for years, but the problem was I wouldn't always try to discuss something moreso than shit on it.  I would go the route of, this is stupid change it, which even if it was stupid, they are more inclined to tell me fuck you and leave it to spite me and rightfully so.  So that being said I'm going to try and outline some stuff that I think is damaging to the game when it comes to roleplay vs fun and we can see what comes of it.  Maybe nothing, maybe some good ideas or some slight changes to the curve?

Alright, so the game is heavily tied around clans, they operate how NPCs interact, where you can go, if you have minion that aren't people and tons of other things, and almost everyone reads something from the lore and goes, Ohhh I wanna do that!

So clans are great in theory, but in practice, not so much at least -on the surface-.  So I'm just going to pick the Byn, as it's the largest and easiest target, but honestly a lot of this applies to the rest of the clans in the game too and I've seen instances of this in game that make me sad as a player, where I can see the frustrations of a character being really that of a player because let's be honest that leaks through no matter how good you consider yourself a roleplayer.

Now I won't be giving out any info that isn't readily known to any player in the game who's virtually heard of the Byn so no spoilers and just like any player ran, staff supervised clan, of course this isn't always how it goes but I would say fairly standard.

New character joins the game, day one, zero hour, they decided to play a let's say, Scout/Jewler let's say and they decide that rather than just ride outside and take their chances they are going to join the Byn and pay their 300 coins to whomever is Sergeant at that time.  They then get their aba, get the tour, probably sparred and beat up a time or two and left to their own devices while being told to "Follow the schedule", and there are various places in game and ooc in the Byn forums that say on day x at time, you do y.  Okay all common things all pretty much expected right?  And that's fine, but then fast forward to day three the character is playing, he goes to the sparring hall, types kill dummy for a moment and goes, well fuck, nobody came to training today.

So he types help scout to see what he can do again:

Scouts are comfortable beyond the isolated dots of civilization, past the ancient walls of cities and outposts - among the dunes and shattered landscape of Zalanthas' wilderness. Able to ply the precarious routes between settlements, Scouts are also capable of pushing into even more rugged terrain - on foot, undetected or astride mounts up to the task. While Scouts are well suited to working as guides, outriders or mercenaries for those with coin and need of their knowledge of the land, they are also able to feed themselves and eke out a living from gathering the jealously-guarded bounty of the wastes. In combat, Scouts are capable and adaptable, being skilled in the use of many weapons - ranged or otherwise.

And he goes, I'm a jeweler, lets go Forage rocks and try and find some jewels.  But he's also worried right, because he was told he's not allowed to leave the city without a Sergeant, and he knows this is a roleplay enforced game, so the player is like, Well fuck, if I go do the fun thing, I go out and forage some, try and make a ring, I'm gonna be not playing my role.

So what do most players who are newer or never really thought about it deeply do?  They just idle at the training hall, or they goto a bar and wait to be wayed by the Sergeant like, "Where you at runner fuckface?" after ten minutes of sitting there in the Gaj, if nobody else is around they stand, type e and quit.  Where had they felt confident in their ability to roleplay a living breathing person and not a robot, they would have known, they could totally sneak out, totally do what they want to do and enjoy themselves and keep themselves connected to the game.  Hell that might even be a good reason to learn barrier hard and heavy, to keep the Sergeant out your head when you're fucking around playing with rocks.

A lot of people seem to think they can't be a fuck up, or they can't be a lazy clan member, or an outright horrible one, and they totally can, fuck I wish more people did.  When I see bynners sneaking out of the city it gives me soooo much joy as a player to see them doing something that gives them enjoyment versus sit bar and playing dwarf fortress in their other monitor.  (I may or may not have done this a time or two, but not because of the reasons in this post).

Now take other rules, not just leaving the city, that's just the one I hit the most being a character who always has outdoorsy shit to learn or do.  But lets say you're told you can't sell something, or you can't buy something or you can't associate with someone by your leader PC.  Does that mean you can't?  Absolutely not, you can do all the things you're told not to, but you should do it in a realistic way.  Say it's the going out of town stuff, change your cloak, use sneak/hide, attempt something to cover your tracks.  Sell that fancy kadian ring through a third party (roleplaying with others) there is all sorts of things you can do to keep yourself actively playing the game and not just sitting around in a room, waiting to specifically be told to do something.

Now I do want to hazard, I'm not saying be an Anarchist and be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, like getting hired at Kurac and going FUCK THE POWER and selling all the spice at cost.  I am not saying that. (It would be hilarious to watch, but I'm not saying that).

But I think people have to realize that just because the rules state you can't do A, doesn't mean you can't do B.  Engage with others, get alibis, make friends, make enemies, go out and kill that scrab if you want to Recruit Swaggerbottoms, fuck what that Templar told you, but do so with an attempt to throw off notice.

You a gemmer who wants to do magicky things outside your temple?  Go on with your bad self, do you, but be cautious about it!

I see too many people who join a clan, they have this vision of them being (I'll use my old illusion) the best hunter in Salarr, everyone will respect my prowess and whores in the bar will fall on their knees and beg to experience the First Hunter Amo's pleasure! (Maybe not that grand, but you get the idea) then they join and get told they can only go out with a partner and spend three days logging in, walking around the town, seeing nobody, get bored and log off.  NO NO NO! Stop that!  Go have fun, but take steps to avoid notice, nothing in this game is designed to entice you to log off, the NPCs whether critter or people, exist for your enjoyment/terror/etc use them as such.

Just try and always have an answer for if someone were to question it.  Why did you bring Byn Runner Amos out and go forage salt when he was assigned training?  He went there, waited till early morning, nobody showed up and decided to go make some coin to buy a new piece of armor so next time the Half-giant hit him it didn't hurt that bad. That's a solid ass excuse in my book and in character.

I dunno, I see too many people struggling with these IC restrictions that clans put on them and not understanding that they are only as restricting as you let them be.  What do you guys think?

[Riev]

What do you guys think?

I think this is an excellent reason to not increase the character length capacity.

It is hard to get across that there are rules, and you may follow or break them as you will. If you're playing a character that follows the rules, you can expect certain things, just like characters who purposefully do not can expect certain things. All actions have consequences, but the rules are there to keep you alive.

Don't leave the City as a Byn Runner is meant to keep you alive.
Don't enter the rinth is meant to keep you alive.
Selling Kuraci Spice at cost will get you killed, so don't do it.
etc etc

As a longtime Bynner, I always defend the schedule, but if its not for you then don't play there. Its 'newbie friendly' not "only for newbies".

[FantasyWriter]

On breaking rules:

I think it can be hard as a player to separate IC rules vs OOC rules.  Particularly as a new player.
It would be good practice to take every "rule" your character is limited to and write down how much of it is weighted IC vs OOC.  One of the best pieces of advice i can offer is that when you are breaking an IC rule, wish up to let staff know.

Breaking Rules story one:
      IC Law broken: Caused a Magickal Item to come to be in Allanak
      OOC (common sense but unwritten rule broken on one of my earlier elementalists): did not inform staff of doing something with IC bad consequences
       I was doing magickery magicker things and was bored IRL, so I made a decision to increase my fun with both an IC and OOC reason. OOC: I was board and wanted to stir crap up, so I dropped a [scary magicak item] in the middle of Allanak outside of a bar. IC: Oops, something that could get him killed accidentally feel off of his belt.

When PCs came across it and were freaked the eff out. Staff didn't immediately know what happened, so it hindered their ability to make quickly react in a way that was true to what happened and make the world respond accordingly.  They contacted me a while later and asked me to wish up in the future when I did something like that. Makes since, good policy. Always wish up when you are breaking IC rules.


Breaking Rules story two:
      IC rules broken: So, so many... I played a Fale (assassin/knife maker) who was an absolutely horrible noble (was written that way in the application) who let his decisions be ruled by his bi-polar passions, from his blood thirsty hatred of elves and magickers and uber-sadistic fantasies to his passionate addictions to booze, spice, and sexual affairs.  The long game for him was a Batmanesque master assassin role. 
     He broke the rules, virtual all of them, and the he also faced the consequences from PCs and staff-animated NPCs.  He was gloriously horrible (from my point of view), and he is one of my favorite three characters played to date, no regerts.  Also, it was so stressful playing him because I had invested so much time and emotion into him, and it was constant conflicts with virtually everyone, I'd never been more relieved when a character died.  I think too many people focusing on winning and playing good (successful-good, not moral-good) characters, and always try to write at least one fatal flaw into my characters.  I love interacting with PCs who say the wrong things, do the wrong things, act the wrong way do thinks that are against their own best (IC) interests, because have you met real humans?

     


On Clanned Role Restrictions:
Excluding sponsored/leadership/tribal roles, I may have had 5 or 6? out of my 120ish or so PCs that were clanned, and that is probably on the high side.  I LOVE Armageddon's dangerous desert environs, and have had at least one PC that has made nearly every one of them home at one point or other. I probably spend 70-80% of my Armageddon hours without another PC in sight.

On the other hand I love my PCs that end up spending IG days just emoting, talking, whispering, and interacting with people.  My favorite roles have  been the ones that mixed both.  Loner PCs who would find strong connections in the sands or their trips through cities/outposts.  Probably one of my favorite things about Arm is how it has something for everyone who doesn't dislike the overall theme of Murder, Corruption, Betrayal in a fantasy universe.


Play the game you want to play (within the OOC rules), and if you want, weave your story in and out of as many other characters' stories as you want.  If your PC wants to join Salarr to get the discount and sell them out on the side, do it! Want to join noble houses in both cities as a Nilazi/Bard with two different identities (GOD, i wish this were possible), Try! 
Want to get Kadian clout without the restriction? Form a hunting band that does contract work for them, and you, the leader make it a deal after a year or two of work to get clan access under contract without giving up your freedom.  IC rule can be broken, bent, exceptions made, anything you wish... at a cost.

Don't play to win, play to have fun.