Apartments deathtraps and stealth

[Armaddict]

...so the entire premise of this is based off of 'I didn't like this, so it shouldn't be possible?'  Is there an -actual- reason why someone can't be under a table, in a nook, under your bed, or any of those countless other scenarios where someone can hide in your house?

I genuinely think this has a lot less to do with a player doing a shitty thing, and lot more to do with coping with a lack of closure on a character, which is a common thing in permadeath games.  Not to mention...if they waited in an apartment for someone to log in, that seems to point very strongly -away- from a kill for boredom, and there being an express purpose.  You may not like that purpose.  You may not think it's strong enough.  But that enters into the subjective relativism that is used across the entirety of the game from one player to the next on whether they do or don't play their character correctly.  Some people may not think I had a good reason to think my character should have been successful in stealing that knife on that belt, i.e. 'Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.'  It enters into the area of which vnpcs need to be counted on to prevent an action, and which ones don't.  It enters the area where it is pure subjective opinion on whether something is good or bad.

I don't know the details.  I assume staff does, because it sounds like it was perturbing enough that you probably wanted the other player looked at.  But none of what has been stated here makes me think anything other than 'Why wouldn't I be able to hide in an apartment?', 'Why wouldn't I kill someone in their apartment?', or 'I wonder if they followed them in while staying hidden, because I stopped doing that when I actually examined how weird that situation is.'

And I definitely start losing all seriousness for the 'problem' being a problem when it comes down to 'these shitty fucking players, we need to make unrealistic changes just to throw wrenches in their plans' instead of getting staff to actually examine whether something was poor or good.

[Dresan]

stuff

There isn't anything you said that makes me think of that particular situation as any less shitty or any better of the some of the players i consider as just bored. I still think its lame of people to do that in general, and using the term lame is the polite word here.

That said, many ideas and changes are literally implemented to allow or stop certain behavior of players, whether or not you agree with that behavior is just your opinion. As an example the staff felt waying people before sapping them to be twinky so they made changes to how way worked.  It would be a very different game any ideas or solutions were written off as just 'deal' with it.

What I am proposing is not unrealistic in some apartments. As someone who loves stealth classes themselves this wouldn't even bother me. Some of them are practically empty square rooms and it doesn't make sense for people to hide in them easily. When you take account playability for everyone not just combat stealth classes I think it becomes more reasonable of an idea.

We have different opinions, clearly based on different preferences of play but my original idea stands. And again player rich enough should probably be able to hirer npc for protection, the bored will just need to try harder to find their jollies. 

[Armaddict]

...except the reason this idea is being brought up is you taking something that isn't actually a 'problem', it's something you don't like, and saying that those people who do that thing
to...

just 'deal' with it.

Once again.  I can agree with shadowing into an apartment to get access being...not impossible, but less than desirable to have possible at the drop of a hat.  I do not believe finding access to get in and wait in any way constitutes 'lameness', just the realism that your private place is indeed private.  You can call that an opinion, but that is why I asked specifically for why that would be something unreasonable to expect.

And again player rich enough should probably be able to hirer npc for protection

It's been brought up, even recently I think, but with 'extra steps'.  The issue might have been how to get the npc's to know who to assist (i.e. one person clans when you hire one?), or it may have just gone down a direction they really didn't want to.  I can't say whether this is in the cards or not, but for this express purpose I'm not particularly against it.  However, funnily enough...one of my more recent characters actually tried to hire themselves out on the foundational principle of 'I'll patrol your apartment buildings if you hire me, one after the other.  I'll check your doors.  You can call on me when you go there to clear it up.'  While this is not omnipresent and depends on my activity...there was actually -0- interest in it.  If players would actually hire the resources that -are- available, the availability of that service would likely go up, i.e. 'WE NEED MORE APARTMENT GUARDS!'  It's not a 100% solution.  But I don't think a 100% solution is really in the interest of anything other than trying to make something entirely possible...impossible.

...the bored will just need to try harder to find their jollies. 

Like I said above, seems to be you saying 'You'll just have to deal with it', not anyone else.  So I can say that now, I suppose, since you did first, but we'll just make it a friendly reflection.  The boring will just need to try harder to find their perfect safety.

[Miradus]

I can name you 5 spots in the sewers which are safer and see less traffic than your average Gaj balcony apartment.

[Lotion]

It is reasonable that someone would be able to pass through a door without being stealthily followed.

[Lotion]

I can name you 5 spots in the sewers which are safer and see less traffic than your average Gaj balcony apartment.

I think this is because reaching many of these places requires a safe method of vertical traversal and a willingness to cross hundreds of stamina worth of rooms each way.

[Miradus]

I can name you 5 spots in the sewers which are safer and see less traffic than your average Gaj balcony apartment.

I think this is because reaching many of these places requires a safe method of vertical traversal and a willingness to cross hundreds of stamina worth of rooms each way.

Absolutely!

[Fredd]

Nerfing that will nerf following nobles into estates

While I actually agree with your premise, I'd like to note that despite over a decade of arguing along the lines of this representing alternative ways into the estate because codedly, there is ONLY one way into an estate, I've been told numerous times that this is not a practice that is desired unless expressly permitted with a staff member watching.  Which is why I stopped doing noble espionage and consider clan estates the only somewhat reasonable 'close to perfect safety' in the game.

Yeah, you should always wish up if you are breaking into any estate. That's a no-brainer.

Don't let it deter you. If you think you can get in and out, do it. Just make sure to pop some hemotes.

However, it isn't something that should just be done on a whim. It should be something you take your time, and plot out. Add to a report so staff know you are casing the joint, ect ect.

Staff aren't there to protect the noble. So don't be afraid.

[Miradus]

There is nothing more hilarious than following someone back to their private clan compound and then sitting down in their chair, propping your feet up on their desk, and saying, "Let's talk about your protection payments."