How Can We Make Military Role More Appealing?

[Gentleboy]

I think the title is self-explanatory!

In my two years of playing, I know that the military in the South (and the newly opened north) has issues with taking in recruits who play regularly. If anything I have seen at most 4 consistent soldiers in Allanak since my playing.

The real question is, retention. How can we get players to want to play military roles long-term?

[Narf]

I think the automated raiders would make a good first building block to making certain that  the military clans actually have military functions. Start making regular threats to both cities that are automated and will provide some benefit, or avert some cost if taken care of (ideally a mixture of both).

[Aruven]

Living the military clan role as more than a battlefield.

In Allanak specifically, the AoD was always funnest when it felt like they (we at the time) were dirty police.

Bribes? It's a thing. It builds RP and involvement, and gets you out doing things some people might not be able to do because you're coded with crime immunity. (Not an endorsement to brutally abuse crimcode)

In a perfect world with roleplay, most common PCs shouldn't be getting anywhere near a templar or noble, or waying them even. They should be going through organizations like the AoD to try and have their voices heard on the way up. This is a top to bottom problem though, and less players imo has led to some serious shifting of this standard.

I'm going to add a little note on this last bit: If the rank and file of the AoD doesn't know how to play their role, it is hard to have this structure in place. It's a reason i've advocated over the years that new players DO NOT go into the military clans immediately.

So we've got criminal enterprise, social gate keeping, and then the bread and butter: Combat. Yes, training is a must because when the shit goes down, the military is who people freak out and seek out in the city. There should be IC ramifications if a particular military unit shows up and can't handle a situation. This mean investing in knowing the other clan members and their uses, bonding, training.

I'm sure there's some insightful responses incoming, this is just my angle on it--I've always found the military roles great, and I love to see them in the game. Sometimes staff can help with war scenarios, but that's just a huge bonus.

[Athapaxis]

One thing that makes Luir's military fun is that there are roads to keep clear.  Is that a thing with North/South military - keeping the roads near the city safe for travel?

[Jihelu]

I spoke with GentleBoy on Discord about this and mentioned I'd post my thoughs here.

This is less 'what makes the role more appealing' and has to do with meta commentary on the state of the Allanaki army.

My problem with armageddon military is both cities have active, military states
With economies that don't profit from active military states

The amount of people in the military in Allanak is fucking A LOT. The logistics of this is almost impossible as there's no one to really trade with.
The known is tiny and we get trade from basically two places
1: Food from Redstorm but even then we have to suppliment it with ranching +  active farming
2: Luirs, but luirs has no way of sustaining a cities economy
Allanak's massive army only works if there is an active expansion campaign going on, a la rome or something. Or if the farms are a lot bigger than I'm led to believe and they employ a lot more slave labor.
I also question how the voluntary military is even so plentiful when they don't get paid, as I feel that people wouldn't want to do it even for food and board. I find it silly Allanak doesn't have required military service but maintains such a large standing military
In this ted talk, I'll talk about how: They should move the 'military' to a guard force and the actual military should be an entirely separate thing because we have a military state with no active war and it's lame as hell

Keep in mind: I could just be wrong about a lot of numbers, but I've always got the impression that the military was a massive organization (Probably due to soldiers and half giant death squads at every corner)

Of course my little quasi idea, that doesn't solve the issue much, of 'make them into a guard force' is really just for lore/making me feel better. Voluntary guard force made up of primarily citizens (Police your people with your people, good for morale), paid a light stipend, given minimum equipment.

I find the 'soldiers can't actually enforce the law/make judgement' thing kinda...weird. I get it. Templar's are omnipotent gods or whatever, but the fact both city states have to wait for a guy in silk to come running down to jail to deal with someone is silly. You can still have Templar's required for crimes that matter (High treason, nobility, etc) but I see no reason why an elf mugger who gets arrested would need a Templar to come say hi for punishment to be rendered (And it's to my understanding that sometimes soldiers just do it anyway, or even just do 'street justice' and don't bother a Templar with it)

As for the literal 'how to make the military more appealing' aspects.

For starters....what do you think of when you think of 'Military role'? Most people probably think of warfare. Actively fighting an enemy force, killing uniformed bad guys. Maybe you've been through the actual military and imagine more logistical work (Building fortifications), or you even think of the real fun military work: Sitting on your ass waiting for orders or doing mind numbing work.

I feel like Armageddon military does none of these.

We've got a military force that's 'totally the police' who can't 'totally be the police' because reasons who gets used as a guard force 90% of the time until the local Templar wants to go magic fight the local defiler, then we load up some soldier npcs and go wipe the clan.

Assuming we don't give me everything I want, and so rightly deserve (this is humor), automating raiders and npc raiders helps tremendously. You now have a bad guy to go deal with. Now you have something to go do instead of telling recruit Amos 'we are going to go on another ride around for the fifth time this month lets hope staff notices and animates a gith for us'.

What Aruven said is important, the AoD are funnest when they are the dirty police, but I feel like the undermines the role of 'military'. You can have corrupt and dirty military, that's fine, but shouldn't they be acting as something other than cops?

[Gentleboy]

I changed my main question with the post. Instead of focusing on leadership. We should speak on what brings players in and keeps them in.

[Armaddict]

I feel like this all falls under the common banner of 'Things to do'.

People go to different clans because of different preferences in what their 'things to do' are.  You don't generally join the AoD to be a barsitter; it isn't that it isn't a social-capable role, it's that those social roles tend to be more geared towards people who profit from it.

The 'things to do' for military clans must, and always must, be accentuated in what they sound like; these are action roles.  Not as in an action movie, but as in your character will be -proactively- working on things.  Which means there  have to be things to -proactively- work on.  When crime is all under the surface, behind stealth code, away from all risk...it's hard to proactively fight crime unless you're doing what you could do in another role for far more benefit, so they'll probably just play that role.

That's kind of a rambly way of saying it.  True Armaddict fashion.

[Brytta Léofa]

Am I remembering correctly that all AoD ranks above "recruit" are life-sworn?
Does anybody avoid joining the militia for that reason?

I can imagine joining the Arm for a 3-5 year term instead of the Byn, if honorable discharge is possible.

[Veselka]

Am I remembering correctly that all AoD ranks above "recruit" are life-sworn?
Does anybody avoid joining the militia for that reason?

I can imagine joining the Arm for a 3-5 year term instead of the Byn, if honorable discharge is possible.

Part of what I always liked about the Legions (Northern Militia) is that Privates sign on for Tours of Duty (4 IC Years, so 6 months) as opposed to their entire life. So they can try out a military role for a while. If they like it they can stay, if some other opportunity comes up they can go for that, and they can also ask for early discharge.

Way more flexible.

I'd like to see that extend from Privates to Corporal, and even to Sergeants. And provide the option for 'Lifeoath/Lifesworn'. With that life oath should come increased benefits, increased latitudes, and better equipment/treatment, military quarters/office, and so on. Non-lifesworn are kept at arm's length, whereas life-sworn are brought in close.

[Dan]

I'd like to apologize in advance for not reading other replies, because I wanted to go into this response with a clean slate of thought. I will go back and read what everyone else has said once I post, sorry if I repeat what others have said.

The military is a 90%/10% organization. You live your day-to-day life in that 90% space of training, eating, having a personal life. It's boring, it is mundanity and where the foundations for brother and sisterhood are laid. In the 90% you kill time in ways that won't get you killed.

The 10% is when you need to put your skills to the test, your life is on the line. The effectiveness of your leaders is tested and you're pumped so full of adrenaline they the rest of your life begins to lack color. These moments build upon (or test) the foundations of unit cohesiveness, where bonds are (or should be formed strongest) amongst soldiers. Eventually, these moments are what you long for, think about (use the remember command) and get addicted to. Some take risks to get back a sliver of the 10% times of their lives, others do their best to not have to remember them (drugs and alcohol). It's the rush of life and when you feel the most alive, because you're on the brink of death.

Understand the above first, that the bulk of a soldiers life is dull and finding ways to fill those spaces of normality can be done in several ways. I personally am not a huge fan of the 'showering the troops with booze', it's done often and I can only RP getting drunk in a barracks so many times. Gambling, a slight step above boozing it. On the job training- this is awesome. Take the recruits out into the city and shake some people down, test their bonds with their non-military friends, and increase odds for interaction. Win the soldiers over, fully, to the organization. There should be an 'us' vs. 'them' mentality in a lot of ways, underscored by the greater defense of the whole population when an extrinsic threat pops up.  A bigger sibling will beat up on the smaller one until the kid gets bullied, then the bigger sibling steps in and whoops some ass.

List of ideas on how to fill the 90% below, as I feel the 10% (their true purpose for existing) gets filled by the leader PCs decently enough.

Drinking together/gambling/banter rp

Patrolling together in groups

Shaking people down

Harassing people for fun (draw a line, don't cause your whole city to become unfun)

Investigating threats/people/situations

Explore (underutilized opportunity) - find possible criminal hideouts (don't mean the rinth)

No-notice tests and exercises - (contact recruit and report a threat somewhere, test response time and see how prepared they are when they arrive)

Show people how much fun you're having and people will want to join.

Include outsiders where appropriate/get them to do jobs for the organization not appropriate for soldiers (grabbing needed items/information collection)

Hazing rituals/rights of passage - "We've all gone and spent a night in there." other soldiers spend all night subduing and tossing in rats at them.

Post RPTs and try to establish a weekly (RL) meeting. Open ranks inspection, check their bags for readiness, or to just get a meeting of the minds and see who has disappeared without excuses for too long (dead).

Monthly field exercises that last a couple days. The unit goes out to spot x, y, z and fortifies it. Patrolling from the satellite location. Pick a save room cave, existing fort, etc. May need staff support.

Tests of strength or knowledge for perks/inter-unit competitions.

Stage 'types' of tactics on dangerous beasts or raider camps. Hit and run tactics with ranged weapons, cavalry charges, capture not kill, etc.

Soldier of the month tests of knowledge or skill with a traveling trophy or cool piece of equipment they display for winning.

Identify clear roles. Medic. Field cook. Tent bearer. Standard bearer. Communications. Scout. Torch thrower. Knowledge retainer (what we engaged, what time of day, field and weather conditions, injuries to who and where.) for after action reports.

Exercise the above roles and give feedback on how well/poorly they were done.

I could go on but I think that should get my point across.  Turn people from 'Private Dingus' into Private Dingus, three-scarred for valor, standard bearer for the Jaded Blades unit, etc. Or, 'Recruit Snuffy' into Recruit Snuffy, tent-packer and worst field cook in the history of the unit, official punching bag and butt of all jokes.


Edit to add a thought: Give the leaders and soldiers clear cut goals and actual deadlines.

"Unit coffers are getting low for supplies and our budget is tighter this year. Go out and collect two large before the end of the year  in fines or I will find someone who can."

"I am tired of your soldiers lacking cohesion. You have until the end of the year to show me they can effectively do x, y or z."

"Our ranks are thin. You have two months to find a suitable recruit that shows promise."

"Talk with your unit and compose two different strategies for how we will assault an enemy at location x. Present the plans to me in three weeks time. I expect details on armament, logistics and time frames."

"We don't have enough reports coming in from Red Storm/Luir's Outpost/city. I need you to find me a reliable source of information, or I'm going to send YOU under disguise."

[Riev]

I remember back when Houses had Hunters (yes I know they have them again), one of the things I really liked about the idea of playing a Salarri was that you could sign on for the contract lengths. Sure, if you wanted to have an Officer's position you needed to be life-sworn to the House, but you could also sign contracts for various lengths of time.

This way, not only were you sort of guaranteed to be able to get out if the clan gets defunct, but there were other privileges as well. Sign on for more than 3 years, and when you leave you basically get some sort of "House Salarr seal of approval" that you were a good employee etc.

Sign on for 7 years and get massive discounts on ordering through the House, blah blah.

Contracts and "House support" are hard because of no literacy, Allanaki dislike of tattoos, and Leadership Churn not knowing who you are. However, I feel that especially in military roles, there could be a couple perks to work towards. I know the AoD has pins, Tuluki bards used to have charmstrings, etc.

But I think @Dan has the best course of action, which is to just schedule stuff happening (or be impromptu). Even in a military clan, not everything is spar and AFK in the barracks. Winner of Quiz-Night gets a brand new not-stained aba. Best story told by a Runner gets a new pair or shit-shoveling boots so they don't ruin their main ones. blah blah blah. Doing Stuff (tm) is great.

[Jihelu]

The contract idea is a good one.

I think we put too much value to 'life swearing' as a whole. We live in an age of little information. People can't write shit down. What fear is there if the Corporal decides he's tired of the army one day and retires to become a mercenary guard for a noble estate? This idea that we can't trust people to do an important position if they aren't basically a(n) individual who can't freely choose his employer or his life path slave is a little silly.

[The Gruffalo]

The contract idea is a good one.

I think we put too much value to 'life swearing' as a whole. We live in an age of little information. People can't write shit down. What fear is there if the Corporal decides he's tired of the army one day and retires to become a mercenary guard for a noble estate?

This was brought up with staff and is/was being debated. There are some changes coming though it's still being hashed out a bit.

[Jihelu]

Well, I hope it gets changed. I really don't think many, if any, roles need some kind of life swearing. The only roles I can think of that would require life swearing are roles I know of from noble houses that I probably can't talk about in too much detail, but basically: You were a commoner in charge of a LOT of the day to day running of the noble house and probably never left the estate.

The only roles I could see being similar to that in the military are roles that work heavily with templarate and are probably out of the 'glass ceiling' reach of the players, at that point you're probably some kind of inquisitor character anyway.

[Is Friday]

The Templar being structured as the "decision maker" for a unit has long stifled a lot of pro-active behavior from military officers IG. This has many times resulted in a "you don't do anything before approval" from a Templar to an officer. I think the structure was changed to mitigate this very issue when the AoD was repurposed to Steel Talons - but it persisted for some time.

If Templars want to be micro-managers of the military then it's not good for the clan, overall. When officers are allowed more freedom to build a culture and go about their business... that usually leads to a fun environment. That's been my experience, anyway.

[triste]

+1 to the previous post, I don't enjoy seeing a sarge become a pet to Lord Templar Brandon to the extent that the sergeant's troops never see the sarge (or any action besides what Brandon dictates).

My two cents is that the opposite is also bad: many military leaders seem to die hunting/patrolling some random dangerous shit when they should [in my opinion] focus on coordinating larger campaigns with other leaders and players. Concurrent to planning said campaigns or RPTs, they can focus on routine patrols and training their unit for said campaigns. The idea Narf had for automated mobs can make the routine patrols more fun as a nice extra tweak to address this problem.

[lostinspace]

Remove that one spell that keeps killing them.

[Patuk]

Remove that one spell that keeps killing them.

/thread

[Jihelu]

I laughed

[Tuannon]

Given the game has done fine without the Academy, professional slavers, mage shields and whatever else the House militaries offer. I think sticking to the Byn and the respective Citystate armies has been a good change. They don't bring enough variety into the game without requiring a massive increase in playerbase to run adequately.

I think the idea that the junior officer makes most of the day to day decisions is strong, so a Sergeant is the first point of reference for a Legion unit for example, a templar might take over command for a little while to facilitate dealing with a specific threat or use the unit to push a personal objective. Conversely a unit scout may come across signs of an ashlayer and require templar overwatch on what to do next, so dialogue would probably best work up and down here.

But the Sergeant is the one who is reliably in charge day to day.

As for team escort, spam train.. aka the Byn. I think they're mostly fine as they are, probably best with the bulk of them based in Luirs or some midpoint between the two Citystates so they're available to escort question rich people at a day or two's notice. If the Byn had independent holdings in the Pah or the desert somewhere, they'd probably have to run patrols to keep the roads relatively clear so people could come to them for jobs too. The Byn compounds in Nak and Morin's or wherever would have to remain for new boot polishing pending relocation to the central camp, however.

Problem is, this is mostly useless without more players to provide contracts and a 'core' Byn identify strong enough to be a factor.

[Armaddict]

Yikes, you think it's done fine without those other groups?

[Derain]

So I've had a REALLY fun Sergeant in the AoD, we cooked rinthers on grills in the Gaj for information, shook people down and were allowed to crack skulls by the Templar at the time and we patrolled a lot.. We had a very very good group of invested players who I loved playing with, we all ended up dieing in the arena but it was FUN.

Fast forward to Steel Talons version 1, we had the original rolecall there was 2 corporals and a Sergeant who only logged on to bitch and complain and log back off.. Corporals killed him, and nobody seemed to give a fuck. From what could be seen IC both Corporals were working with the local Templar at the time but for some unknown reason he favored a certain private a crazy amount.
It was to the point of these corporals who had killed a crimson wind squad, a Mul and had a crazy amount of acheivement yet this particular Templar was up their ass. Even when a complaint was filed the NPC Templar over the unit never backed him off and I personally deserted and force stored my PC because the Templar/Private who was apparently untouchable wasn't allowed to be dealt with by the corporals.

Hindsight- a random crime immune aide position was even created to save the Templars little buddy and keep them nice and safe. This whole thing is the reason I don't know if I'll ever play in the AoD again which is sad because it is hands down my favorite clan when there is good templar support. Shout out to Malikith for being the Templar who was hands off enough and let us have fun well played templar who let the experience in the clan be fun.

[Is Friday]

Hindsight- a random crime immune aide position was even created to save the Templars little buddy and keep them nice and safe. This whole thing is the reason I don't know if I'll ever play in the AoD again which is sad because it is hands down my favorite clan when there is good templar support.

Hi Derain - I played that Private. Special positions within the unit and/or aide positions for higher ranking Templars have been around for a long time. I remember back when Samos had a "special" person in the unit that only answered to him and that was back in... 2008? 2010? Something like that.

[Jihelu]

I hate Friday as much as the next person (Fucker stored one me after joining the Atrium lmao [I kid I'm sure you had shit to do {I'm not kidding I want my money back ((It's fine I robbed the place shortly after))}]) but I'd probably have just murdered his character if I was that upset TBH. Give em the no words bash in the alley.

[Derain]

It was feasible for the PC I was playing or the backstory the original group was given which everyone also seemed to forget. But yes a Templar can single handedly ruin an entire unit or rolecall with a snap of their fingers.

[Tranquil]

Honestly, I think the AoD is useless in Allanak.

There's crimcode which leads to little to no need for law enforcement, and what can be done is already usually done by PC Templars.

I guess the only purpose a militiaperson has in Allanak is being a free person for a templar to call upon for a patrol to go kill things outside.

Relying an entire role on a single purpose leads to stagnation and boredom. I would prefer, at this point, due to the clear no-budge stance on any change on crimcode, that the Arm gets entirely removed. Have the PC Templars rely on Byn and soldier NPCs instead, as that's usually what already happens.

I've played a soldier a couple times and you only really act as an NPC during actual RPTs, since you ARE just a footsoldier.. not to mention you have an expectation to remain disciplined, unlike the Byn - which often makes playing a bynner far more appealing, since it's so loose. It gets very boring to play a 'disciplined' footsoldier very quickly. Anyone who's playing or took the time to play a Sergeant in the AoD, big kudos, btw.

[The Gruffalo]

The AoD is absolutely not useless. There is far more to do than patrol, be a templar's lackey, or "catch bad guys" and if that's the sole focus of your play in the AoD, then speaking frankly, you're wasting the role.

[Tranquil]

Let me rephrase it:

When the clan's PRIMARY purpose (be a soldier, exert martial law in Allanak, get criminals) is barely existent in actual play, the AoD is comparatively lackluster to any other city clan that does it's primary purpose. Whilst the AoD can do other secondary things for certain, so can just about anyone else in Allanak.

I would like to personally see a rework of crimcode entirely, to allow more freedom for both soldier and criminal. Otherwise, I see little fun in the southern soldier role other then those rare moments where you can actually feel like a soldier. Atleast, that's how I feel about it.

[Mellifera]

Honestly, I think the AoD is useless in Allanak.

There's crimcode which leads to little to no need for law enforcement, and what can be done is already usually done by PC Templars.

I guess the only purpose a militiaperson has in Allanak is being a free person for a templar to call upon for a patrol to go kill things outside.

Relying an entire role on a single purpose leads to stagnation and boredom. I would prefer, at this point, due to the clear no-budge stance on any change on crimcode, that the Arm gets entirely removed. Have the PC Templars rely on Byn and soldier NPCs instead, as that's usually what already happens.

I've played a soldier a couple times and you only really act as an NPC during actual RPTs, since you ARE just a footsoldier.. not to mention you have an expectation to remain disciplined, unlike the Byn - which often makes playing a bynner far more appealing, since it's so loose. It gets very boring to play a 'disciplined' footsoldier very quickly. Anyone who's playing or took the time to play a Sergeant in the AoD, big kudos, btw.

The AoD, and any militia group, has play very similar to a tribe. There's often the same level of kinship and similar activities done together, with the obvious difference that there's a slightly stricter hierarchy and you're not born into it. Outside of battle RPT's, a lot of the enjoyment you can get out the militia comes from that kind of tribal-esque play.

[Mellifera]

It's also worth mentioning that the armies of Tuluk and Allanak are really more militias than militaries, at least in the modern sense. They are police as much as they are soldiers, and they encompass pretty much every other 'government' authority as well. The Templarate orders them, they do everything else.

Their enjoyment is pretty much reliant on having stuff to do, as is every other clans, but there's actually a lot more variety in what the AoD can actually do than people seem to be giving them credit for.

While enjoyment of the AoD does rely largely upon a good templar liaising with a good sergeant, and that good sergeant leading their guys well, it does also rely upon the attitude of players joining. If you join and expect full scale battles every other day, you'll be sorely disappointed. Sarge will have stuff for you to do if you let him, but to get the most out of the AoD you also have to be willing to be flexible and do more than just act like a mk. 2 NPC guard.

[Jihelu]

I would like to know what definition of militia you are using to come to the idea that Allanak and Tuluk's standing armies are militias and not military forces.

[sucre]

Maybe we could make the roles more appealing by offering more non-com roles? I remember in about 2011 or 12 that there used to be an AoD assistant/quartermaster who kept everything tip top.

I've never been good with directions, especially outside of cities. So, applying for those role calls has never appealed to me because I'd be likely to run everyone off of the Shield Wall 320493840923 times.

[Dar]

One thing about military clans is that the leadership is very influential. Which means if the leader is lackluster, or disinterested, or inactive, or wrong time zone, the clan loses a lot of it's drive. The individual members are what makes the clan awesome, but the leader is the one setting the beat to that dance. The clan can be variable and interesting, or it can be rigid and narrow. The clan can be a den of corruption, or the clan can be made out of robots, or wily people chafing under the press of the robot master.

I loooove joining those clans and introducing pure chaos into them. I've only been executed twice.

[Evilone]

Here are some ideas I have on the subject, and what I would like to see. It's a bit longwinded I apologize, but I've had plenty of free time lately and so gave it some thought.

ATTACKING AND DEFENDING

The key to make military roles more appealing is to have constant enemies to fight and defeat, whether that is being animated by staff, or that are always available in the game through wandering monsters, hostile tribes and raiders. The main reason to have paid soldiers is either to attack or defend something. If I am wanting to be a soldier, I personally don't find fun in shaking down citizens and criminals. I'd rather be an actual criminal and be a THUG if I wanted to do that sort of thing. City Watch might be more inclined to do that sort of thing, but an Allanaki soldier for example should be fighting to conquer tribes and claim slaves, or defending Allanaki villages from gith and raiders, or maintaining supply lines to war fronts which are pushing to claim more land and resources for the Highlord's Empire and so on. Maybe we need Allanaki City Watch Unit, and Allanaki Army Unit?

SimRaider - I don't know exactly how the SimRaider system works, but I love the idea of it, and I wonder how much more it could be advanced on. Other than the purpose for lets say the Allanaki soldiers to destroy a hostile force that is disrupting the Empire, what benefit is there? Loot when you kill the NPC raiders? What about when you pull apart the camp, there is a camp item 'a piece of a dismantled camp', that is big and heavy, and needs to be moved on a wagon or cart, and it could represent a monetary value when taken back to Allanak. This item can only be sold by a Templar or Officer to a specific camp seller NPC for coin or kept for later use, but it adds to the whole experience and gives a reward beyond duty. Bring in House Tor then, and they would thrive off this idea as a big part of their wealth is from military campaigns. See further below.

Camps - Crafts to establish camps for PCs. This could be as detailed as you want it, but it should utilize the code we have, and no additional coding would be needed hopefully. Brief explanation on how it would work and the items and why, and bear in mind the keyword names would be changed to be a bit more realistic than the general descriptive term I used. Staff would load a no-take item called 'an area that can be scouted'. PCs would have a good reason to be constantly scouting the land, and hoping to find one of these. Sometimes they might be easy to find, other times in hard to reach, out of the way places. Either way when found, these can prove to be quite useful to the right PC. Several crafts are added utilizing 'an area that can be scouted' which could work on the search skill (just made search and scout role super useful). You can craft the following, 'a potential camp with minor resources' (Journeyman), 'a potential camp with moderate resources' (Advanced), 'a potential camp with major resources' (Master), 'a potential camp for military purposes'. Failed results could offer nothing, or a camp with major resources could give you a moderate camp, a moderate failure gives you a minor, and a minor failures give you nothing. On a success, you craft the no-take item you tried to find. Templars, and the GMH family have access to a camp supply seller, which sells items like 'a section of a merchant camp', or 'a section of a military camp', which three are needed of each depending on the camp that was found, all expensive. If not bought, these have to be made from a chain of crafts from logs. Five logs make a small section of camp, five small sections make a normal section of camp, and so on. All these parts are heavy, and require transport on a wagon at least, or an argosy. Military camps when dismantling raider camps and getting 'a piece of a dismantled camp' could use those, saving coin if they didn't sell them. Another piece needed would be 'a borsail group of worker slaves', which could be bought from a Borsail NPC, or from a PC Borsail at a cheaper price. Once the sections of camp have been brought to the potential campsite, another craft can be performed using <insert skill> to actually build the 'a full camp with major resources not ready to be loaded'. This item uses the decay code, and after a RL day, changes to be 'a full camp with major resources ready to be loaded'. The leader does the craft, gains a valuable resource item, and the campsite changes to 'a half-mined camp with major resources not ready to be loaded', and then after another RL day decay changes it to, 'a half-mined camp with major resources ready to be loaded', and so on. For a major camp, you would get x2 the extra resource than a minor camp, and would be there 2 extra RL days if you wanted, and you have to defend the area in that time, leading to all sorts of potential attacks or disruptions, and all sorts of espionage between the different military factions and merchant houses. It might seem like a crazy idea, but it's very difficult to explain via text how it could work.

Villages of Allanak - I strongly believe the virtual villages of the Empire need to be built in game, each with their own particular trade they offer to give them a unique purpose. It gives patrols so much more reason to be out and about, checking locations, maintaining order, and allowing more frequent small scale battles as the villages would be constantly harassed by gith and human and elf raiders.

Amos Village - Amos Village is located at the edge of the Salt Flats, and is unique in that it has a machine that emits a pulse which keeps Salt Worms at bay. This machine is rather complex, and during bad storms can be known to shut down. The people of Amos Village are mostly salt grebbers, who collect salt as a main ingredient in making paint, the main export of Amos Village. Lots of flour is needed and is the primary import from Red Storm Village, and the people have a positive relationship with House Jal, who trade extra salt when needed.

Above is an example of one village that could be created, and offers the opportunity for Allanaki soldiers to defend against Salt Worms when a bad storm occurs and shuts down the pulse machine. House Kadius could have a small storeroom to buy paint from at cheaper prices, and then take to Allanak to sell at higher prices. House Jal could have a salt buyer or seller there. You could even go so far as using the different salt types, combined with sacks of flour, and create some paint crafts.

HOUSE TOR

Academy Division - One Tor Noble to be in charge of the Tor Academy. Actually gives a noble a job to do, and not just 'exist' and end up getting bored and storing. House Jal is a great example I feel of a noble house working as it should, with a noble in charge, and swabs and other underlings underneath to offer a House environment, but also having purpose.

The Tor Academy - 1500 coins entry fee for commoners. The high price doesn't just let in anybody off the streets, and most people might need to look for a sponsor from a noble house or GMH or similar. Gets access to a variety of lessons, survival, combat, law enforcement and so on from the Tor noble, or Academy aides or Scorpions. Three different levels of NPC trainer are available, and to pass a combat grade to advance, you need to defeat the previous trainer. Each 'grade' you may even pay another fee, but you can still do whatever job it is you are doing and access the Academy freely - 10000 coins entry fee for nobles, who have a specific Tor noble NPC trainer and area, away from the commoners, and whatever guest lounge is available, the food and water provided must be obtained, either finding fresh water, or paying a vivaduan or water seller, and the food must be either hunted or bought.

Tor Scorpions - 2nd Tor Noble to be in charge of unit of Scorpions. Big bonuses to combat skills at startup for noble. Said noble is allowed to venture the Vrun, for appropriate Tor missions, whether it's aiding the militia, or serving Tor interests, or go beyond on major campaigns. Scorpions must have graduated academy to join, or if they have served a term in the militia (see below), or graduated from the Byn may be able to join, but must still graduate. Why bother to join? They are the ELITE, and have some of the best equipment available, and their social status is much higher than a normal commoner. If there is a lack of PC Scorpions, and militia PCs, the Warlord/Lady can even hire the Byn if necessary for extra muscle on missions.

Any graduates that have completed an officer training program can be recruited into the militia unit(s) when a officer position opens up. They don't have to accept, but it gives an extra option without having to do GDB rolecalls, and gives the academy one of it's originally designed purposes of training officers for the army.

ARM OF THE DRAGON

Term of Service - This has been discussed and I agree with most. Citizens should sign on for terms of service in the militia and not get stuck there for life. Recruit is one year probation period, and each term I would say is three IG years (4.5 RL months). Each term served gains bonuses. Examples are coin for better gear, bigger storage locker, service pins and so on.

Extra Leadership - If there is 1 Sergeant PC, and no Corporals, I'd like to see staff request a rolecall for a corporal. Having that corporal who can recruit, and cover a little broader time zone could be useful and hopefully not burn out the Sergeant, and be able to lead some minor patrols and try and keep the clan active.

Master Sergeant - Most Sergeant positions filled seem to be role requests done by staff, and having something to aspire to could offer further incentive in the role. An honorary title such as Master Sergeant, can give them some extra perks, such as better pay, better equipment, specific tattoo, and also the social standing increase that accompanies the role.

Just Do It.

[Yelinak]

I've been playing a soldier for a while now and the big letdown is that noone is playing criminals, and the conflict between north and south is imaginary. We do what we can to come up with things to do, but I can tell that the clan collectively lacks things to pick up and run with. Every patrol just encounters animals, and as far as I know, nobody has been arrested or found in the cells in the two or three months I've been in the clan.

The clan actually has a good amount of players in it. It's the only clan in Tuluk that offers training, so I think that alone will keep it attractive. But it's not like we can just decide to march south and attack Allanak, right? And we can't investigate crimes that don't take place.

We obviously can't have a pitched battle between Allanak and Tuluk every month, but it would be nice if there was a little more to the conflict than this. From what I can tell, it has been dormant since Tuluk opened. But criminals should be the bread and butter of soldier roleplay and that part of the game definitely feels like it needs a helping hand.

I'm not going to blame anyone for not playing a criminal in Tuluk because it doesn't look so appealing right now. There's no lawless place to live inside the city, even the Warrens have NPC soldiers. There are no criminal PCs to meet and work with, as far as I know. There's nothing like the Labyrinth here, so the only way to train fighting skills is by hunting animals.

Maybe draw up a sponsored gang leader role for Tuluk. The place needs citizens who aren't pleasant and law-abiding, and if it takes a helping hand from staff for that to happen, so be it. The fact is that it hasn't happened on its own. Right now, as far as I can tell, the city's desperate underbelly is completely unrepresented by players.

Don't know if the same would help in Allanak, I'm not very aware of how things are there.

[Mellifera]

I would like to know what definition of militia you are using to come to the idea that Allanak and Tuluk's standing armies are militias and not military forces.

By definition, the armies of Tuluk and Allanak are not militia (except for maybe the Tribal Levy in Tuluk).

I'm referring to the the general 'feel' of them, and their day-to-day activities. They don't really act much like historical militaries did, which I do personally think is for the best.

[Jihelu]

They don't act like historical militaries, I agree (Though from my understanding professional militaries were mostly mercenary to begin with and most were normally comprised of peasant levies). But they certainly don't act like modern militaries aside from a schedule.

The Tribal Levy is close-ish to a militia but I forget if that's even still a thing.

[Nao]

One issue is that a lot of responsibilities and power to get shit done is concentrated on leadership characters. Military clans are very reliant on those to do just about anything, and soldier PCs tend do be reluctant to do things without permission.

And half the time, those are either dead or very scarce. I can't remember the last time the Allanaki militia had a visible sergeant, and it's not because I haven't played there. Templars are easier to find, but they have a lot of other things to do that don't involve entertaining militia PCs. If the Byn was without a sergeant for extended periods, nobody would be surprised if interest in the Byn dies down.

So... yeah. Hire more than one leader. Make unstorage possible so more people apply. Give a bit more power and freedom to the middling ranks. All of that would probably help.

[Lotion]

I've been playing a soldier for a while now and the big letdown is that noone is playing criminals,

People are almost definitely playing criminals, the problem is that generally unregulated crime is generally unseen.

[Jihelu]

It's hard to find criminals as the 'meta', at least from what I understand, always encourages: Never get caught or seen, don't even fuck with other players till you are advanced/master, once someone sees your sdesc or contacts you your a known thief now.

You can be 5 years into a character and make diamond rings for a living but the minute you steal someones mount ticket and get caught, you're a perma thief.

[The Gruffalo]

The best synergy is when the militia and the criminals all have an understanding with each other, and as long as those understandings are maintained and understood, everybody profits... there's a ton of plot juice in balancing that, too.

Hunting/jailing/killing criminal #231 gets old, though it certainly does have to happen from time to time.

[Jihelu]

I suppose this is why Rinthi criminals are a bit more prominent. You can go southside, do crime, and if you get caught you go back home. No one back home cares that you commit crime because...yeah, southside can suck it. The only time it becomes not fun is if there's a hit on your head but that's fine.
Can't do that as a Southie. Can't shit where you eat.

[Narf]

I suppose this is why Rinthi criminals are a bit more prominent. You can go southside, do crime, and if you get caught you go back home. No one back home cares that you commit crime because...yeah, southside can suck it. The only time it becomes not fun is if there's a hit on your head but that's fine.
Can't do that as a Southie. Can't shit where you eat.

Militia should sell 'free pass' tickets for pickpockets good for certain streets.

Miner's road; 400 coins per year
Caravan way: 1000 coins per year.
Podunk alley: 50 coins per year.

[Jihelu]

I mean that's already something you can do, and I've done it. I've contacted Templar's and not so subtly explained im a criminal and intend on doing crime. I had one tell me he didn't give a shit what I did as long as I didn't KILL merchants or nobles (I'm not even a murderer, I was a thief and burglar)

I had just about every Templar getting thrown money their way. Was fun

The issue comes that if I had stolen from someone and gotten caught my ass was big oof, even if I have people covering for me. Im the thief guy now

[MeTekillot]

Due to my extensive personal experience with it, I suppose it never really occurred to me how intimidating the combat code can appear to be.

Do many players avoid playing combat roles because they don't want to take the time to learn the ins and outs and the quirks of it?

[Yelinak]

This SimRaider bandit stuff was really cool for a while, but we haven't seen them in a long while. I think it would be great if it could be made a persistent thing near both cities. It worked out great the couple of times we met them, but then it hasn't happened since October.

[LidlessEye]

I've seen them more than a couple times already. They keep shifting position.

[Riev]

Tool SimRaider to work inside cities (somehow). Dens of bandits or Tuluki terrorists that need the be routed out. Have some sort of flag for when the 'camp' is cleared. The longer it goes without being cleared, the more leeway staff has to expand this non-virtual presence.

Anecdote: I had a 'sneaky' that was basically making a base in a locked run-down hovel Southside. It was his art apartment. Inside that apartment were various painting supplies, and canvases depicting members of the Templarate in "compromising" positions with anthropomorphized rats to represent rinthis.

He got caught. By a Templar. And still lived... but oh shit did he owe that Templar. It was way better than "How dare you do bad things? TO THE ARENA/CUDDLER/PIT".

[LidlessEye]

+1

[Narf]

Tool SimRaider to work inside cities (somehow). Dens of bandits or Tuluki terrorists that need the be routed out. Have some sort of flag for when the 'camp' is cleared. The longer it goes without being cleared, the more leeway staff has to expand this non-virtual presence.

This would be great for less lawful areas (which I think should include alleys and places near alleys in south Allanak).

[Riev]

I'm just saying... I for one would love to play a 'rinthi that takes in with an NPC criminal gang and defends them against soldiers.

[Inks]

Just have them sign up for a 5 year tour instead of "for life" a-la roman empire tours of duty.

5 years is more than 6 months, but at least the player has a light at the end of the tunnel if it isn't for them. And also each time they sign on again pay could rise (above standard for their rank). Or just get a cool thing to put on their uniform for each extra signing.

[Halcyon]

Due to my extensive personal experience with it, I suppose it never really occurred to me how intimidating the combat code can appear to be.

Do many players avoid playing combat roles because they don't want to take the time to learn the ins and outs and the quirks of it?

I'd suggest its not intimidating, rather, the combat code is a grind some player dont want to do on every pc, or sometimes, any.

[triste]

Just have them sign up for a 5 year tour instead of "for life" a-la roman empire tours of duty.

5 years is more than 6 months, but at least the player has a light at the end of the tunnel if it isn't for them. And also each time they sign on again pay could rise (above standard for their rank). Or just get a cool thing to put on their uniform for each extra signing.

+1 to limited, optionally repeatable tours of duty, I find five IG years is about how long I need for a character to become survivable as a casual player anyway.

[Veselka]

Just have them sign up for a 5 year tour instead of "for life" a-la roman empire tours of duty.

5 years is more than 6 months, but at least the player has a light at the end of the tunnel if it isn't for them. And also each time they sign on again pay could rise (above standard for their rank). Or just get a cool thing to put on their uniform for each extra signing.

This is how it's done in the Legions, tour of duty is 4IG years.