The crisis new players are facing

[Lotion]

Sure you can, We all do...But we are talking about new players I thought.

the thread has derailed far past that

[9001]

I dunno. When I am playing a Byn Sergeant, one of my least favorite things about the role is getting contacted 2-3 times a day by a new Pc wanting to join.
...
The actual interview process is about 90% meaningless and a waste of time for the leadership PC.

I can understand that. The Byn is different from every other recruitable clan (that I know of) in terms of standards, in that they'll hire almost anyone. It's the one clan I can see the auto-join working in to some extent, given the IC context surrounding hiring Runners. I don't like it, but I see the argument that's being made for it.

I do like the idea of NPCs that can dish out information about the clan on request, but I don't think they should be instead of PC interaction. Even if many interviews are repetitive, they aren't all the same, or they don't have to be. And especially when it comes to new players, I think having an actual PC to gauge where they're at, answer questions, and help guide them with the expectations of the clan (or with coded things) is pretty essential. And clans aren't static - how things are and what is expected of everyone can change from leader to leader, or even under the same leader due to IC circumstances.

Solutions appropriate for the Byn are going to be different than solutions appropriate for just about any other clan for the most part. Allowing First Troopers to hire Runners would lessen the burden on Sergeants (if said Sergeants wanted to delegate to them), and for a clan like the Byn I think an NPC within the compound that can clan people and hand out an aba that Troopers could bring prospective Runners to would even work.

Your Sergeant PC would decide just how far they wanted to delegate interviewing and hiring Runners. They really can't be bothered? Let First Troopers, Mercenaries and Troopers do it all while they focus on schmoozing up contracts. Except that elf one. You know better than to let the elf do it.

Feels like people are forgetting this is ultimately a roleplay game. The process of getting into the Byn (or any other clan), the quest for finding someone and having to ask around for them, the process of being interviewed, the process of getting a tour and being shown where you can keep your stuff etc - these are all opportunities for RP and scenes and potential for other things to happen.

Agree +1000

I think rather than automate away this kind of interaction for new players it would be better to give the opportunity for more PCs to be able to onboard them where appropriate, especially in the Byn. There's plenty of middle ground between the Sergeant PC has to do it all and automating the whole process.

[ShaLeah]

Its been very frustrating for him because its been extremely hard to find PC leaders for his PC to join their Clan.

Can we really really talk about this? I made a character not long ago. Couldn't get in the Byn. Stood by the gate.
Stored.
Let me pose this question...

Wtf can't staff animate their clan NPCs for recruiting? Why can't my breed go get the attention of some guard at the gate and get one of the 100s of sergeants to recruit me?

I just don't get why it HAS to be a PC.  Appointed staff should not let opportunities like that go.

[Veselka]

Its been very frustrating for him because its been extremely hard to find PC leaders for his PC to join their Clan.

Can we really really talk about this? I made a character not long ago. Couldn't get in the Byn. Stood by the gate.
Stored.
Let me pose this question...

Wtf can't staff animate their clan NPCs for recruiting? Why can't my breed go get the attention of some guard at the gate and get one of the 100s of sergeants to recruit me?

I just don't get why it HAS to be a PC.  Appointed staff should not let opportunities like that go.

Appointed Staff members also aren't around 24/7 and may have missed you/other PCs.

Thus, my suggestion to have an automated NPC Sergeant take your 300 coins, give you the rundown of the rules, give you an Aba and two sparring weapons you choose in the discuss script, order you to fall in, once you follow them they give you a tour and end up back outside the gates, and the NPC sergeant tells you to go to the mess hall and read the schedule on the board to see when training is.

Seriously, it's an NPC's job, not a PC. It isn't 'the first RP' some PCs have. As of now, some of the first RP they have is logging into the Gaj, and if they're lucky, walking one room west to an empty bar and wondering who the PCs are. If anything, what I am suggesting is offering a GUARANTEED RP experience, even if it is with an NPC.

It also reduces workload/stress on leadership positions, of which the T'zai Byn Seregant is one of the toughest next to Templars.

The Byn should be one of the clans that anyone can join for 300 coins. Whether or not you STAY on is up to you, how you follow the rules, how you play, if you're a magicker, if you're a criminal, and so on. That isn't a PRE-REQUISITE to joining. All you need is 300 coins and about 20 minutes of someone's time (A PC Leader). My vote is make that a NPC leader, and a PC leader when possible.

[Veselka]

Give all leadership roles Who C. For the love of God.

The main issue with this is that some leaders have used it to punish players.  Like the sergeant types who c, sees that Nandor the Relentless is online.  A little while later when Nandor shows up and the sergeant gives him shit about not being there, Nandor can lie and say he was on gate duty (code for being logged out).  But the sergeant knows he was lying and gives him shit about it.

I have no idea how much that happened, but it happened.  And I'm not saying we shouldn't give it to more leadership, maybe we should.  Just giving a reason why there's been hesitation in the past.

I had who c on a Salarr Crew Leader no longer than a RL year ago. So it's been given to people, particularly tribals. I think this was an older argument that has been proven a bit out of date (No offense, Halaster!)

If a Leader abuses Who C, it can simply be taken away from them. It helps SO much to know if people are around to run a RPT or patrol on the fly, and generate fun for people.

[Harmless]

Whatever anyone does, don't miss the ideas that Iiyola and others are posting here to actually change what is clearly a problem.

I am fine with Auto-Byn characters -- an added idea to this notion is that for a temporary amount of time, they should perhaps be flagged somehow to ensure both clan safety and player visibility.

That old timey diku "who -c" command might be handy for Byn sergeants wanting to be aware of sudden new-hires. If we can give some limited use of that command to finding complete newbs, maybe accounts with less than X hours total playtime, or maybe all new characters who are made by joining a clan from chargen, so that joining clans this way leads to less isolation as well as helping people to understand/trust/or be wary of hires brought in this way.

(wow, I missed a whole page of replies before posting, sorry. Looks like everyone's onto the who C thing. If staff are hesitant to give it away, then perhaps the modification above to just who -c some newbs would be good.)

[X-D]

All my Byn sarges have had who c...just saying.

[HavokBlue]

All my Byn sarges have had who c...just saying.

I had Who C as a leader on multiple city clans and was under the impression that was a standard move when last I played leaders.

[Veselka]

All my Byn sarges have had who c...just saying.

It really should be across the board that all leaders have Who C. If it's abused, it's taken away. Simple as simple can be.

Right now, it seems to depend on the Staffer/Admin as to who gets who c, and that makes it all the more frustrating.

[X-D]

Maybe staff just forgets to add it?

I mean, shit happens. I have had to ask for jobs before. And usually I get from staff "Oops...sorry, missed that." Job gets added and no harm no foul.

[Inks]

It is a standard add, yeah, from what I have found.

First Troopers don't get it though. I assume Corporals don't either.

[zealus]

I agree that most leaders should get who C, apart from Clans where being missing might be normal (*cough* Valuren, Guild, whatever tuluk has *cough*). It has helped me immensely on my noble, and I only had one clan mate. 

[Jihelu]

I think any role that has to send in weekly/bi weekly reports should get access to who-c, and maybe even a few extra.

[Barsook]

I think any role that has to send in weekly/bi weekly reports should get access to who-c, and maybe even a few extra.

[Dar]

I've been recruited into Byn by NPC twice and four times an NPC kicked me out.

[Aromit]

I've been recruited into Byn by NPC twice and four times an NPC kicked me out.

This is pretty standard, staff jump in to help where we can. We do our best to not leave people in limbo on stuff like this, if you're not enjoying the clan and want to depart for whatever reason. We'd rather you be on and playing rather than not playing and waiting to catch a Sergeant. You may wish up and nobody is there, in which case send in a request and we'll try to make it so. Staff, like players, aren't always available but we have a good enough spread that its usual seen and the word passed along.

[Harmless]

I've been recruited into Byn by NPC twice and four times an NPC kicked me out.

This is pretty standard, staff jump in to help where we can. We do our best to not leave people in limbo on stuff like this, if you're not enjoying the clan and want to depart for whatever reason. We'd rather you be on and playing rather than not playing and waiting to catch a Sergeant. You may wish up and nobody is there, in which case send in a request and we'll try to make it so. Staff, like players, aren't always available but we have a good enough spread that its usual seen and the word passed along.

Thank you so much for doing this, when you guys can, to help retain our precious juicy newbies. Also, thank you for replying to this thread to answer concerns like these.

[Riev]

I hate to jump aboard the Byn train, but maybe split the duties 50/50. Sergeants are still required to interview people, ask the right questions, make sure the PC understands the basic expectations.

Similar to Devotions, have an NPC whose job is, every morning at First Horn, walks around the compound giving "the tour" in a scripted manner. Do the interview, and tell the Runner to report for the next tour of the grounds in the morning. NPC walks around, shows where stuff is, explains how to get food from the cook, etc. Leave it up to the PC/Player to decide if they need the tour or not.

Some of this "automation" can really help out, so long as the NPCs don't get stuck.

[Classclown]

I made the suggestion of an auto-enlist option offered in chargen rooms.
A npc who stands beside a doorway under a banner of their clan. Byn,
Kadius, Salarr, and Kurac. Maybe the militias too. One for each city's
starting room. Atrium too? Maybe the NPCs could give the warnings and
rules that are routinely given to the new recruits before the pc can actually
be recruited and then the player would have to "accept" before the transaction
is completed, and also answer basic questions about each clan. The Byn one
would also require the three small up front. It would just be an option, the
player could still type "enter arch" as usual and join up the regular way on
their own or not at all. The doors would lead directly to the corresponding
barracks/dormitories of the outfit. It's early and this is a little rushed, but
the gist is there.

[Hestia]

The auto-enlist option being brought up doesn't address the actual problem though.

When Amos gets auto-enlisted into the Byn, then what? He wasn't able to get enlisted via a PC, because there are no PCs who play when he's playing.  That doesn't change when he gets his crew patch.  Except now he has access to gruel and water and a sparring dummy.  And no one to play with.

I'm not seeing how this helps new players at all.

[Patuk]

I'm going to break IC secrecy somewhat by noting that (over?) half the Byn left the clan, not so recently. When the PCs die on a RPT or whatever: fine, they'll be back. A voluntary exodus? Much different, right there.

[Nao]

The auto-enlist option being brought up doesn't address the actual problem though.

When Amos gets auto-enlisted into the Byn, then what? He wasn't able to get enlisted via a PC, because there are no PCs who play when he's playing.  That doesn't change when he gets his crew patch.  Except now he has access to gruel and water and a sparring dummy.  And no one to play with.

I'm not seeing how this helps new players at all.

There are usually players that are around. They just aren't sergeants and can't recruit.

Whenever I've played in the Byn, there was no sergeant for the majority of my online time because I tend to play early in the week. You can still RP and mess around with the other runners and troopers. You don't need a sergeant for that, especially not if you're new.

[Dar]

Would it be possible for people to sign up as newbie helpers.

In the Byn, you'd get an echo. Lt. Copper contacts and psies,"Some peepsqueek is at the gates, show him around. NOW, BYNNER!"

And when a newbie is chargenning, in the list of clans, he'd have (N members online now. Or. Clan: Tek Harem. No Members online. Last member login 8056363 hours ago)

[Jihelu]

That'd be neat.

But as Nao said, there isn't an issue of 'Oh you're in the Byn, now what?!'...there are probably people still playing. Now you can go spar with them and do other clan stuff.

And if the Byn is entirely empty? Maybe turn off the NPC/Script that lets you auto join because that's sad and the clan should probably be looked at.

[Iiyola]

The auto-enlist option being brought up doesn't address the actual problem though.

When Amos gets auto-enlisted into the Byn, then what? He wasn't able to get enlisted via a PC, because there are no PCs who play when he's playing.  That doesn't change when he gets his crew patch.  Except now he has access to gruel and water and a sparring dummy.  And no one to play with.

I'm not seeing how this helps new players at all.

Access to water and food definitely will help new players, along with the fact that they can get used to the syntax, etc.

Add a board with active PC's or sergeants and you're golden.

One of my first PC's was a Jaxa Pah. I knew shit all about the game, but I entertained myself, learned how to find my way through the Rinth and often reported to Nyr, who played my NPC boss.

On top of that, if all new chars have readily access to the Byn on chargen, I think the Byn will be much fuller in general.