Too Many Gickers? Let's Fix That! (WITHOUT REDUCING THE FUN OF MAGICK)

[Veselka]

I guess I don't really see it that way. Certainly being a mage is a front row seat into being involved with current events; mundanes' chief achievements, so far, are dying to the forner. I guess it counts as involvement, but yeah, I don't agree it's a good dynamic.

I also don't think it's a great or perfect dynamic -- Definitely still the 'magic seems to be the front seat, mundanes the back seat/child seat'. I don't think it's a fantastic dynamic, but it's definitely a change from the cycle of the last year or two. Here's to hoping tomorrow's RPT is somewhat mundane.

[Halcyon]

I vote with Strongheart.  +1 getting rid of the Aspect subs, bringing back Full Elementalists, and keeping Touched.

I have to ask, how many staff plots are without magic?    The gith storylines, the current arc, the sewer to salt flat battle, the senate vote... I have to think back a long way before some possibilities make the list.   If this is the case, I cant blame players for indulging in roles with the tools to participate on the larger stage.

[SpyGuy]

I rant about this on Discord sometimes so want to make this first part really clear.  I have absolutely no problem with people playing mages. For me it's a numbers problem.  It's reliving the same plot of finding PCs you're becoming friends with manifesting again and again and again. That gets really old to RP through time after time if you're trying to RP a realistic personality but also adhere to the docs of fearing and mistrusting magick. Magick fearing/hating mundanes should never feel like a minority but at times they really do.

I personally think that (the small minority of?) players who play mage after mage after mage are doing the game's theme a disservice.  And if it's coming from a place of 'well this magick subclass is more powerful' then they're power gaming.  Not against the rules, play what you want to have fun but they should realize it also impacts the experience of other players.

I like a few of the ideas proposed to fix it.  I think bringing back full class mages would reduce the number played as playing a full class mage is a different challenge.  It would come with some other trade offs though.

I'm curious what people think of changing magick spells to be far more difficult to max out.  Iirc spells were some of the easiest and quickest skills in the game to skill up.

Staff (and player!) plots should be designed to not become magick vs magick gickfests to the exclusion of mundane PCs.  My personal preference for magick in plotlines is plots that are mundanes vs the dangers of magick they can't understand.  This becomes less possible when a higher percentage of PCs are magickers because those can easily steal the show in anything vaguely magick related, especially when they've got a full main class worth of skills to add utility as well. 

And to add to these random thoughts I think I'll paraphrase what another player once said. 'Arm isn't a low magick world. It was literally destroyed by magick and is ruled by sorcerer kings'.  I've come to agree with that and magick on Arm is cool and powerful.  It's just that these days it isn't rare, special or even particularly interesting when as a mundane you're constantly encountering it or its users.

[RavingTregils]

You could go back to the beginning - when magic wasn't hated but used both in Tuluk and Allanak.
I agree that hating on magic is fine when it's rare but not so fun when it is common. It's like playing a human and stepping into a tavern full of breeds.
One ewww is fun, ten is tedious.

Another option would be to create a witcher class - a mundane that specializes in hunting mages.

[Barsook]

Another option would be to create a witcher class - a mundane that specializes in hunting mages.

That. I was just thinking of that when I was reading through the thread. You need balance, but the problem is aren't you gonna use anti-magic items or skills that could be called magic in a sense?

[Gentleboy]

I think a witch hunter would be so funny. Eating the dirt and spitting it out "yup, ya got gicks, Lord Templar."

[number13]

Another option would be to create a witcher class - a mundane that specializes in hunting mages.

That. I was just thinking of that when I was reading through the thread. You need balance, but the problem is aren't you gonna use anti-magic items or skills that could be called magic in a sense?

There are skills already in the game that are very useful against magic-users and not as useful against mundanes, that are not magical in nature. These skills could be transplanted to a theoretical clan of witch-hunters.

There's already at least a couple clans in game that could and should have access to witch-hunter type powers. I'd advocated, briefly, with staff to give one of these clans access. I think there's lore justification for it, too, for both of these clans. It would actually enforce the general feel of those clans if they had some means of (a) keeping ginks out of their ranks and (b) deal with ginks that wander on to their turf.

Although reasonable people could disagree that that justification is really there, this is all play-pretend. We could retcon and say that a rare few secretive members of clan X and/or Y have always had access to the abilities, if there was a general desire to quickly add witch-hunters to the game.

[stoicreader]

What if being effected my magicks made pulling up a barrier impossible? In this way, anyone with a magick subclass can't use barrier. Perhaps give him advanced contact instead of master. Magicks mess with psionics.

Additionally, you give every mundane subclass journeyman barrier to start.

What this does, it is allows employers to test their people before promotion or upon enlistment.
"I'm going to contact your mind, and I want you to put up a barrier after. If you can do it, then we know you're not cursed and you can get this job/promotion."

This would deter folks from playing secret magickers and make playing a rogue more difficult and as a result organically decrease overpopulation of mages.

[SpyGuy]

Witch hunters sound fun, especially if they could earn a way of verifying X was a secret gick.  I don't think it by itself would reduce the numbers by much but it'd certainly add a new dimension to mundane/witch relations.  I'd be so tempted to app one but also tempted to app a magicker antagonist if they were full and were successful.

Work could also be done IC to make certain areas of the game world more hostile to witches or anyone overly friendly with them.  I've definitely seen some PCs strike the balance of hate/interaction very well but I can think of two areas that could do this better.  On the other hand there's also the aspect that a rogue witch is the main trump card certain groups have against Allanak.  That can be rough because you also want criminals to have a chance but if there are organized groups of gemmed it just becomes a magickal arms race.

[Halcyon]

Is there any avoiding organized groups of Gemmed with House Oash as an open House?   Between Gemmed, House Oash, the Sun Runners, raider and rebel groups against Allanak trying to survive templars, support for an ongoing storyline, the stream of gemmed vs rogues in the Two Moons, etc, is anyone surprised were are alot of mages?

I'd love a mundane merchant guild plot in and around the southlands, where the House leaders paid to have templars test all new employees for magick.   

[Veselka]

What if being effected my magicks made pulling up a barrier impossible? In this way, anyone with a magick subclass can't use barrier. Perhaps give him advanced contact instead of master. Magicks mess with psionics.

Additionally, you give every mundane subclass journeyman barrier to start.

What this does, it is allows employers to test their people before promotion or upon enlistment.
"I'm going to contact your mind, and I want you to put up a barrier after. If you can do it, then we know you're not cursed and you can get this job/promotion."

This would deter folks from playing secret magickers and make playing a rogue more difficult and as a result organically decrease overpopulation of mages.

Literally guild sniffing. No thanks.

[Iiyola]

This thread makes me, the player, feel bad for making the choice to play a story as a magicker subclass.

[Strongheart]

This thread makes me, the player, feel bad for making the choice to play a story as a magicker subclass.

Please do not feel bad! Mages are enjoyable to play and no on should blame you for playing one at all even if it's every other character because of how fun they can be. It's just that there needs to be more give and take so that they're not completely outclassing mundanes because as it stands (at least for rogues) they can do what mundanes are able to + more.

[Patuk]

This thread makes me, the player, feel bad for making the choice to play a story as a magicker subclass.

Please do not feel bad! Mages are enjoyable to play and no on should blame you for playing one at all even if it's every other character because of how fun they can be. It's just that there needs to be more give and take so that they're not completely outclassing mundanes because as it stands (at least for rogues) they can do what mundanes are able to + more.

Gemmed aren't better about this, and do three-fourths of the work the AoD might do any time of the week.

[Strongheart]

I'm just trying not to attack fellow players. I won't disagree but I want to be conscientious of what is said here not being a judgement on players. But rather how the magick subs are just generally more appealing than the mundane subs.

[SpyGuy]

This thread makes me, the player, feel bad for making the choice to play a story as a magicker subclass.

Please don't.  It's certainly not my intention and I don't think anyone's to make people feel bad because they're playing a magicker at this time.  It's just that people have noticed there are a -lot- of magickers in recent months. I think it's just a discussion about this change in the game population and how we as players might see the docs or code changed to adapt to this based on whatever our personal experiences and opinions are.

[WarriorPoet]

Play more gicks. Someone has to because I probably won't.

Sangre por la machina.

[Krath]

I am of the opinion, keyword being opinion, that is the number of gicks in game was an issue, staff would stop approving applications for them. Much like when you try to join the Two Moons, Sunrunners, etc, if there are too many magickers, staff will decline your app. The only downfall to this are that players that enjoy playing magicker after magicker will likely not log on until they are able to make their magicker..Maybe I am wrong about that last part though, I hope.

[Patuk]

Maybe I am wrong about that last part though, I hope.

You aren't really, which is likely a good reason to buff mundane(AND ONLY MUNDANE) roles instead of restricting mages more.

[Narf]

This thread makes me, the player, feel bad for making the choice to play a story as a magicker subclass.

Magic plots are like bringing desert to the potluck. Very much appreciated individually, but if that's all anyone brought it can be a problem. Not because any individual caused it, but because the party wasn't organized.

[Dar]

I've considered playing a witch Hunter before. The problem of this is that the cure to witching is death. So a witch Hunter would literally be a character that is highly focused on PK.

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

[Narf]

I've considered playing a witch Hunter before. The problem of this is that the cure to witching is death. So a witch Hunter would literally be a character that is highly focused on PK.

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

What I want is to figure out a way that some of the people that only or primarily have fun with magic could have fun with mundanes.

[Patuk]

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

Yes.

[Fernandezj]

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

Yes.

[Strongheart]

Maybe I am wrong about that last part though, I hope.

You aren't really, which is likely a good reason to buff mundane(AND ONLY MUNDANE) roles instead of restricting mages more.

Exactly! I want magick to be as powerful while increasing the power of mundanes.

This thread makes me, the player, feel bad for making the choice to play a story as a magicker subclass.

Magic plots are like bringing desert to the potluck. Very much appreciated individually, but if that's all anyone brought it can be a problem. Not because any individual caused it, but because the party wasn't organized.

That's the perfect analogy! And makes me miss potlucks