The rinth needs love

[valeria]

Edit for page-roll conext:

Regarding people tossing knives into taverns, it is still an issue, including at the Gaj. A lot of my gripe on that frankly might be resolved with a guard or bouncer NPC out front, or an inner room with said guard. Awesome another idea that happens to conform with reality.

Regarding people killing kids, that is my other gripe in a previous comment and possibly one of OP's. I get that in a strife stricken area there are wolves and sheep but things are so severely imbalanced that usually the sheep just end up dead en masse. You say you disagree about gang member protection, but you are effectively agreeing with your more NPCs comments. Yes awesome, these people we agree we want are east side west side guards, gang protection, people with backstories and stuff.

I disagreeing with Dresan's crim-code idea specifically.  I think the Rinth should remain lawless, i.e., without crim code.  You're correct that I don't disagree about gang member protection/NPC-assists.

[Dresan]

To clarify while I am not proposing add 'law' or 'soldier', but I am proposing security through a crim-code which would be enforced by the gangs and the population which in the area.

The gangs are supposed to control territory, some NPC's already act as sentries if another npc attacks you.People shouldn't be walking around with active visible spells or openly casting. The locals and gangs should react. I think the place can have a few more secure location for PC without effecting the lawless theme.

I see more rinthi PCs living and playing almost anywhere other then the rinth, originally if you started in the rinth you should live there but most don't. Unless you can see hidden people magickally the place usually feels lonely because even if there are PCs there is a high demand for stealth.

Ultimately, I think my biggest problem with the rinth is it that the current state of the rinth does not support mundanes PCs or mundane interests very well. Frankly, I think the magickal protections afforded to Allanak southside should be present in the rinth as well (this would make for an awesome plot too ).

[Gentleboy]

Weird little tidbit,

I'd like it to be clarified that the rinth and the alleys aren't just always shady and dark. The suns beat down just as hard in the streets. If anything, the air would be thick and hazy. There aren't like garments over the walls to cast artificial shade.

I think that taking away the always 'dark' features of the rinth will help to make people realize that daylight exists even in the darkest parts. Dark hoods, black armors, why such an emphasis on the dark in a place with barely any shade? I've been thinking of that.

It's like in our minds, the rinth is a constantly dark place where the sun doesn't touch....BUT IT HAS TO.

[triste]

Weird little tidbit,

I'd like it to be clarified that the rinth and the alleys aren't just always shady and dark. The suns beat down just as hard in the streets. If anything, the air would be thick and hazy. There aren't like garments over the walls to cast artificial shade.

I think that taking away the always 'dark' features of the rinth will help to make people realize that daylight exists even in the darkest parts. Dark hoods, black armors, why such an emphasis on the dark in a place with barely any shade? I've been thinking of that.

It's like in our minds, the rinth is a constantly dark place where the sun doesn't touch....BUT IT HAS TO.

I mostly agree that tHe DaRkNeSs is played up too much, but check out these aerial photos of real life cities that are split by rich/poor like allanak [source: natgeo]



Notice that the streets are narrower. Hence less sunlight than the rich side.

Hence the 'rinth sometimes being called the narrows or the alleys. Hence those narrower streets being dark.
Furthermore buildings in the rinth can be around 3 stories so they are closer to the slums of Lima, Peru, Brazil, some old european cities. So arguably the 'rinth would be even darker than the slums in those photos if I am judging the heights of the buildings correctly.

However, I completely agree that the 'rinth would not be 100% lightless. Kowloon walled city is an example of a slum with a good percentage of sunlight-less area, but that slum had buildings 5+ stories and sustained by modern architecture.

TLDR: comparing the 'rinth as described [slums with narrow streets and up to 3 story tall buildings] to real life slums indicate it would be darker than the rest of Allanak in the most likely case, but probably not as dark as currently described.

[Doublepalli]

Oh eastsiders definitely visit the Guilds tavern like nobodies business, because they can/no virtual enforcment of westsides territory fr fr

You removed the author when you quoted him there, but oh, he knows.
[/quote]

Not sure what that's supposed to mean Triste or who you think I played ..but I was definitely on the receiving end of eastsiders opening the guild door, murdering guildie NPCs and PC's alike in the tavern and eastsiders having more time spent Westside than Eastside....let's not forget the sewers, or the gicks spamcasting in them

There's definitely a disregard for gangs and territory. People just don't care. If they can do it, they do it.

So I'm for more hardcore npc responsive retribution - because staff aren't always watching or care.

[number13]

Some old ideas that I've expressed before:

1) The Rinth should be a magic-free zone -- not even templar magic . Maybe Nilizi should be able to cast within the Rinth, but that's the end of it. There should also be some rooms in the Rinth that are psionically dead. 

This gives the Rinth a reason to exist, both ICly and OOCly, as a playground for mundanes.

2) Sections of the eastside and sections of the westside should be their own crime code jurisdictions, but only certain PCs/NPCs should be protected. If you toss a dagger into the Folley, or if a round-ear decides to backstab someone at the Basement, it should be nigh certain coded death via NPCs.

Related, the Basement NPCs should protect elves that get attacked, automatically.

3) The item prices that trigger the muggers should be increased somewhat. A newbie wandering in with starter gear shouldn't be jumped. At the same time, the strength of (some) muggers should be vastly increased....to Red Storm gang levels at the very least. And there should be automatic triggers that set off alarm bells at the staff level when an armored dwarf wanders into the Rinth to slaughter all the NPCs, so that rinthi powers-that-be can be animated and respond...with poisoned darts and brute squads.

The Rinth should be a playground for rinthi, not armored dwarves.

4) More hidden stuff. A lot more. The Rinth should be absolutely lousy with hidden crevices and secret passageways. It's got a few; maybe it's got more than I know about. But however much there currently is, it's not enough. Every other room in the Rinth should have some hidden fun in it.

Related, more salvage areas, for the recovery of material components of use to spell casters. Since elementalists are screwed in the nu-Rinth, they'll have to take extreme risks or employ mundanes to go in and grab stuff.

Related, a source of poisons in the Rinth. There should be (more) mushrooms growing around the rinth, in various hidden crevices.

[Narf]

Some old ideas that I've expressed before:

1) The Rinth should be a magic-free zone -- not even templar magic . Maybe Nilizi should be able to cast within the Rinth, but that's the end of it. There should also be some rooms in the Rinth that are psionically dead. 

This gives the Rinth a reason to exist, both ICly and OOCly, as a playground for mundanes.

2) Sections of the eastside and sections of the westside should be their own crime code jurisdictions, but only certain PCs/NPCs should be protected. If you toss a dagger into the Folley, or if a round-ear decides to backstab someone at the Basement, it should be nigh certain coded death via NPCs.

Related, the Basement NPCs should protect elves that get attacked, automatically.

3) The item prices that trigger the muggers should be increased somewhat. A newbie wandering in with starter gear shouldn't be jumped. At the same time, the strength of (some) muggers should be vastly increased....to Red Storm gang levels at the very least. And there should be automatic triggers that set off alarm bells at the staff level when an armored dwarf wanders into the Rinth to slaughter all the NPCs, so that rinthi powers-that-be can be animated and respond...with poisoned darts and brute squads.

The Rinth should be a playground for rinthi, not armored dwarves.

4) More hidden stuff. A lot more. The Rinth should be absolutely lousy with hidden crevices and secret passageways. It's got a few; maybe it's got more than I know about. But however much there currently is, it's not enough. Every other room in the Rinth should have some hidden fun in it.

Related, more salvage areas, for the recovery of material components of use to spell casters. Since elementalists are screwed in the nu-Rinth, they'll have to take extreme risks or employ mundanes to go in and grab stuff.

Related, a source of poisons in the Rinth. There should be (more) mushrooms growing around the rinth, in various hidden crevices.

I like all of these ideas (though I wouldn't make the entire rinth magic free, just parts of it).

The one exception is the increased value for gear. A lot of the starter gear doesn't fit the impoverished aesthetic of the rinth. It's my opinion that commoners from south Allanak should be able to look poor but still hold themselves above the northsiders.

Like the kid who wears 3 year old sneakers from K-mart standing atop the kid who's shoes were stiched back together so many times it's hard to tell what brand they used to be.

[Dresan]

I like the ideas. Sources of poison in the sewers would be a welcome addition.

I think pushing magick towards the sewers along with adding reasons for people to go there would really improve the place.

[Gentleboy]

Like seriously though. Is the Rinth the only fucking place the sun doesn't shine? Why are we acting like the alleys are in the dark. It's odd and changes the entire atmosphere. No more creeping in shadows, but needing to blend in. Be cool if instead of hide, a group of npcs can appear or something. I dunno.

[valeria]

Like seriously though. Is the Rinth the only fucking place the sun doesn't shine? Why are we acting like the alleys are in the dark.

It's in the room descriptions that the alleys are dark because of all the old, crumbling buildings leaning against each other over them.  There are some bright, open areas.

[Riev]

I like the ideas. Sources of poison in the sewers would be a welcome addition.

I think pushing magick towards the sewers along with adding reasons for people to go there would really improve the place.

I tried, recently. There aren't enough resources, playability-wise, to make the sewers a viable option. More likely to see 'rinth changes than sewers.

[Dresan]

I wasn't thinking that the sewers should become viable in terms of living in them, more like a nice but dangerous exploration area with reasons to go down there.

Assuming the other ideas were implemented mages would not be stifled there and you could find poisons there.

[gotdamnmiracle]

I wasn't thinking that the sewers should become viable in terms of living in them, more like a nice but dangerous exploration area with reasons to go down there.

Assuming the other ideas were implemented mages would not be stifled there and you could find poisons there.

Honestly, I wish there were rogue gicker/ mugger NPC spawns down there instead of just rats.

[number13]

Honestly, I wish there were rogue gicker/ mugger NPC spawns down there instead of just rats.

There used to be *other* things that spawned in the sewers/tunnels. And I've heard that once upon a very long time ago there was an entire little village of sewer dwellers to the west of the well.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Honestly, I wish there were rogue gicker/ mugger NPC spawns down there instead of just rats.

There used to be *other* things that spawned in the sewers/tunnels. And I've heard that once upon a very long time ago there was an entire little village of sewer dwellers to the west of the well.

The sewers are as empty as the red desert. Both are an absolute joke. People constantly talk about the gith of the Red, but the scariest thing out there is the possibility of having to spend any stretch of time resting your mount in the sun.

The sewers have the veneer of having been interesting at one time, with lots of talk about horrors and stuff, and extremely little substance.

-I tried, recently.-

Imagine going down there for any reason other than transportation or the rare byn/saber contract. Lol

Keep in mind it is TECHNICALLY realistic for there to be exactly nothing of interest in a sewer or big swathe of desert. Realism wins again, folks.

[Hauwke]

Honestly, I wish there were rogue gicker/ mugger NPC spawns down there instead of just rats.

There used to be *other* things that spawned in the sewers/tunnels. And I've heard that once upon a very long time ago there was an entire little village of sewer dwellers to the west of the well.

The sewers are as empty as the red desert. Both are an absolute joke. People constantly talk about the gith of the Red, but the scariest thing out there is the possibility of having to spend any stretch of time resting your mount in the sun.

The sewers have the veneer of having been interesting at one time, with lots of talk about horrors and stuff, and extremely little substance.

-I tried, recently.-

Imagine going down there for any reason other than transportation or the rare byn/saber contract. Lol

Keep in mind it is TECHNICALLY realistic for there to be exactly nothing of interest in a sewer or big swathe of desert. Realism wins again, folks.

It really depends on which side of the Red you are on, the trade route is relatively 'safe'.

[satine]

There used to be some terrifying stuff down there, are all the hidden rooms down there gone as well?

[Cind]

If someone removed the few sewer horrors that used to be down there, something is truly wrong with how we live our lives.

They were shiny, black, had spiky shells, and truly looked like eldritch horrors. Indeed, the wonders of the universe are vast. Nothing strikes fear into the heart, if you've ever been lucky enough to see one, like seeing the mdesc of something called 'a tentacled sewer horror,' or whatever they were named before.

What if tons of these things invaded the whole rinth, but were programmed not to attack pure-blood elves? I'm imagining interesting and fun solutions to our problems in the game that, honestly, you kind of know no one would survive.

[Riev]

There used to be some terrifying stuff down there, are all the hidden rooms down there gone as well?

I recently mapped out a bunch of sewer stuff, and outside of it being difficult to traverse for VERY little payoff, there are definitely still some hidden gems (haha) down there.

Unfortunatey, it takes like 8 stamina per room to move which makes travel a literal all-day event.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Maybe I'm myopic, but the sewer is extremely underwhelming.

Weirdly the proof that the rinth is overlooked can be seen in the archeological items that some of the NPCs wear. There's a muslin shirt with a half a sentence mdesc and it weighs like 4 stone. The NPCs in the mantis have unusual stuff on that I've never seen before elsewhere.

[BOXCARS]

Chiming in to say while I like the idea of paying off the muggers for protection, they exist somewhat to enforce a standard level of poverty among the rinthi. While there's certainly very simple ways to circumvent them, speaking as a newer player they're a very good crash course in knowing your place. A good rinthi knows the more you have the more you lose, hence spending a large amount of your profits on tattoos (which are quite difficult to take away) or spice (which probably won't last more than a smoke session or three).

A rags to riches story is all good and well, but the rinth is a bucket of crabs that pull each other under. A constant cycle of poverty from within and without to reinforce your life of survivalist crime. This is why we can't (and probably shouldn't) have nice things.

[Incognito]

I might add here (without going into IC details) that the gent in the rinth who requires a payment to see him, would do well to get some decent gear in his inventory, for sale.

Earlier he had all kinds of goodies (and this is too old, so IC info doesn't matter here) including fuses and explosives and picks etc.

Now he just has really crappy stuff that no one would be interested in buying, leave alone paying to peruse - making his existence quite redundant for all practical purposes in the game.

Perhaps some of the rinthi starting location gear could be made available to him, to sell?

[roughneck]

I might add here (without going into IC details) that the gent in the rinth who requires a payment to see him, would do well to get some decent gear in his inventory, for sale.

Earlier he had all kinds of goodies (and this is too old, so IC info doesn't matter here) including fuses and explosives and picks etc.

Now he just has really crappy stuff that no one would be interested in buying, leave alone paying to peruse - making his existence quite redundant for all practical purposes in the game.

Perhaps some of the rinthi starting location gear could be made available to him, to sell?

Turn it into rental space for whores, spice, or guarded storage or something.

[Incognito]

There used to be some terrifying stuff down there, are all the hidden rooms down there gone as well?

I recently mapped out a bunch of sewer stuff, and outside of it being difficult to traverse for VERY little payoff, there are definitely still some hidden gems (haha) down there.

Unfortunatey, it takes like 8 stamina per room to move which makes travel a literal all-day event.

If I'm not very much mistaken, the main purpose of the sewers (besides having resources/or lacking in them), is to be an arduous trek, for IC reasons which should be self-explanatory.

Yes there WAS a lot of stuff down there, at one point, and also had many plots that originated and ended there, but now that stuff is gone.

[Riev]

So what I'm getting from that is...

"The place is designed to be an arduous trek, and there used to be cool stuff that made the trek worth it but most of that stuff is gone now"

Cool.