Grammar

[SwanSwanHummingbird]

I agree with JollyGreenGiant, these things are important and should be kept in mind.  Everyone makes mistakes, especially when typing fast, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to do the best we can.  This game involves a large amount writing, and the better you write, the better you can bring your character and the world to life.

So writing/grammar is important for Armageddon, and really for the rest of life too, it's not a bad idea to brush up on your grammar from time to time.

[Bestatte]

Im from Sweden and I´m basically happy if I get the spelling right.
Getting the ´s right is simply a little to hard for me.
On the other hand I will accept the fact that you probably never get Swedish grammar right either.

See that's the thing Crawly. You try. No one can or should expect anyone to be perfect. I make mistakes all the time, and I hope most people would forgive those mistakes.

But there's a difference between trying and failing, and not putting in the effort to try in the first place.

I'd rather see your emotes, missing commas and added incorrect apostrophes and misspellings, than see the same from someone who knows better and just doesn't care.

[Irulan]

I agree as well that grammar is very important in a text based environment. It is how you are trying to express yourself, and the message that you are trying to convey can either be correctly interpreted, or badly misinterpreted based on your grammar. Wheras sometimes haggling over whether or not there is supposed to be a comma or not will not make a difference, there are other times where comma placement can make a big difference in the meaning of the sentence as well as other aspects of grammar. It can get confusing to whom you are referring in some emotes if your grammar is incorrect. I kind of think of it like like accents...if you have to spend a -huge- amount of time decoding the emote, you are going to get very tired of reading it and trying to understand what they mean. It is distracting and takes away from the experience. :?
That is just my two cents worth though.

[Barzalene]

Most drownings occurr in less than two feet of water...I bet there have been instances of drowings on Zalanthas. In buckets and barrels and sewers and cesspools,

[John]

It's also very easy to tell someone who is an ESL and a 13 yr old American boy :roll:

[JollyGreenGiant]

It's also very easy to tell someone who is an ESL and a 13 yr old American boy.

Agreed.

Also, in the original post it was said that in a comma seperated list you should not use a comma before the 'and.' I think this is a matter of taste.

I pulled that bit about the list from the Associated Press Stylebook.

I also think that it is not always neccessary to use a comma after -all- of your subordinate clauses. For example, in the first sentence in this paragraph 'in the original post' could be taken as a subordinate clause, but I didn't use a comma because I think that the sentence flows more smoothly without it.

You might have me, there.  I can't remember if prepositional phrases are considered subordinate clauses.  Nor can I remember what the rule is on comma use with prepositional phrases.  I'll dig up my copy of the stylebook tonight and look it up.

And now, since no one else has included it yet...

:arrow: Avoid dangling participles and misplaced modifiers.  An example is "Rushing to finish the paper, Bob's printer broke." Here the subject is Bob's printer, but the printer isn't doing the rushing. Better would be "While Bob was rushing to finish the paper, his printer broke." (example quoted from this site.)  This site has some good examples of misplaced modifiers and how to correct them.

[Drayab]

Feel free to look it up and tell us what you find. Whatever the answer, I think this is a grammatical subtlety that most people wouldn't notice (in the game) or care about. Remember that many well respected novelists don't conform to 'proper' grammar in their writing. I wonder how many high school English teachers would have failed William Faulkner?

[creeper386]

I don't care that I know you "mean" it's rather than its. I care that you also know, and didn't bother fixing it. That tells me you don't give a shit about your own presentation, and therefore you shouldn't expect me to be impressed, no matter how pretty your emotes are, or how deeply involved in the plotline you are, or how powerful your character is.

For one, it's not about not caring, or being lazy and not bothering to change it. It's about something that looks fine when I look at it. I can read though most anything and miss mistakes. Most the time I DO find mistakes isn't neccessarily the mistake itself but that it's a flaw in the flow of whatever I'm reading. When I do notice mistakes. I don't go, "OMG they just fucked up! It's going to ruin my day." It is the same when I'm reading my own things. I just either don't notice a mistake, or I correct it mentally basically never seeing the mistake. I'm not going to put all my posts through Word, or run everything I input into the MUD just to make sure I appease someone who has a huge stick up there ass.

You personally come after me as if I don't give a shit, or as if I try to create mistakes. Well on the first account your correct to a degree. I don't care on the message board. When it comes to being IG or a description I do put ALOT more effort into them then I do a post on the GDB, or in IRC or anywhere else. At times I tend to put alittle more effort in paying attention to what comes out when I type, just not all the time. Hell, a good portion of the time not only do I not really pay attention to what is showing up on the screen as I'm typing, I'm not even watching the screen.

Yes, it's a text means, spelling and grammar matter, that doesn't mean it is neccessary to have perfect spelling, have perfect English grammar. It's a pretty good thing alot of time just to have a sentance that starts with a capital letter, flows in logical sequence and ends with some sort of punctuation. It doesn't mean I don't care, or I'm lazy... It comes down to having different expectations and beleifs. Yes I know, they are set laws and rules to it that have to be followed to the 'T'. Blah blah blah.

Anyways I'm done. Have fun tearing this apart, pointing out typos and misspellings, and generally telling me how wrong I am. I'm out.


Creeper

[Angela Christine]

I've had enough struggles with spelling, grammer and those thrice damned commas that I have no buisness throwing stones at anyone else's typos.  But I'm still human and have my own personal pet peeve, one that often comes up in emotes where I can't do anything about it, so I'm going to take this opportunity to vent.

wary  = cautious
weary = tired

Thanks, I feel better.

AC

[Bestatte]

creper ur rite it dosent mater so do wut u wana do cuz i dont' care bcz al i axe is that ppl TRY 2 presnet they'reselfs as gud as tehy can but tahts' ovlosly 2 much 2 axe so 4get it jsut rember it dosent mater and keep rembering taht wen u come by ppl whu rite leik tihs bcz teh more u give teh more tehy take till there isent ne thing left 2 give ne more

[crymerci]

LOLZ!!!!!!!!11

[creeper386]

Well... I wouldn't be surpised to see this deleted but I have one thing left to say.

Bestatte, how about you fuck off.

[JollyGreenGiant]

So here's the thing.  I'd kind of hoped to keep most of the flaming out of this thread, and instead keep it around as a tool or a reference for anyone that cared.  I make no claims of elitism.  If you want to argue playability over perfection, I'll buy that any day of the week.

I do wish people would exercise a bit more care with the written language.  It's a tool, but that doesn't mean it has to be ugly and unwieldy.  There are many common mistakes that can be easily corrected if you just get into the habit of doing them right.  I don't understand why someone would just flat-out refuse to do so; to me that's like insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 despite any evidence to the contrary.  Easy mistake to fix, why waste all the energy getting upset about it when you could use that energy to make it better instead?

Yes, everyone makes mistakes.  Yes, it's hard to type fast.  Yes, some people speak English as a second language (or third, or fourth).  Very good points.  My point is, why not fix what you can, when you can?

I wonder how many high school English teachers would have failed William Faulkner?

Point taken, but even Faulkner observed the basic structures.  This thread was never meant to be anything but a reminder of a few grammar rules for people to look over, if they cared to.  If you saw something that helped, then I'm glad; that's all I wanted to do.  If you don't care or can't be bothered, then that's fine, and this thread obviously has no relevance to you.

[Bakha]

If I had a nickle for everytime I've mispelled obeisance ingame, I'd be rich.

[Bakha]

If I had a nickle for everytime I've mispelled obeisance ingame, I'd be rich.

Just to save you the trouble:

everytime= every time

[John]

If I had a nickle for everytime I've mispelled obeisance ingame, I'd be rich.

peek Bakha

The frail little man has in his pack:
a large pile of coins

steal coins Bakha

You can't lift that

[Anonymous]

I don't see why people are getting their knickers in a bunch over this. Most are just saying, try. And some are saying, try and here's some tips to help you try.

So how come there's people being all pissy against the ones who are asking you to try? I mean what's the big deal? If you aren't willing to try how come you bother playing the game in the first place? Arm isn't a place where you're gonna get shit handed to you. Neither is life or anything else. Well unless you break the law and get sent to jail, then you get your meals handed to you in solitary but that's besides the point. You have to try.

Just like some people say everyone owes it to the game to try to help newbies. Newbies owe it to the game to try to help themselves. And everyone owes it to the game to try and write so people can understand you.

Try is the word of the day.

[spawnloser]

Brought to you by the letter 'T' and number 23.

[Anonymous]

I think people might be getting their knickers in a twist over the implication that if you're making certain mistakes then you're not trying.

Do you think there's a widespread problem of lack of effort from the playerbase?  I don't.

[Bardex]

I don't think it's a widespread problem. I notice a few who could do with some improvement, and a few who really don't look like they're trying. But with things like caps and punctuation I think it's a nobrainer. That to me just reeks of laziness.  Does it ruin my fun? No, but it's still distracting and if everyone did it I wouldn't play this game at all. Right now it isn't bad enough that it bugs me but mostly because there aren't that many people who do that who I interact with anyway.