all PVP is surprise attacks. Not lame, but what do we do?

[kahuna]

It isn't my fault if I run away from a raider and it isn't a raiders fault if they immediately pkill me regardless. Both sides are right. The choice to engage in a collaborative scene is simply that, a choice that's decided on by both sides. If one person decides not to that doesn't make them wrong.

[Brokkr]

It isn't my fault if I enjoyed watching one character totally bait raiders with their newbie clothes then completely destroy them.

[Krath]

I feel that, all pvp/pk is a surprise because everyone thinks their PC will live forever.

[Alesan]

I feel that, all pvp/pk is a surprise because everyone thinks their PC will live forever.

That is an unfair generalization that is not true and I think you know that.

[sandandblood]

I agree with what someone else said earlier in the thread relating to hiding mdescs with cloaks/masks/other clothing items.
I'm not sure why it was removed but I think it would be a good addition if added back to the game, especially involving PVP.

[GetKanked]

This is in addition to the raid target being a grebber.  I rode up on them, emoted a couple times, then said - stay away from the bug and you'll live - only for them to immediately type 'mount beetle;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w'

He did RP, He got up and ran for his life. Just as valid as you appearing right next to them and telling them to stay away from something when you did not know how far away he was from the "bug". (And no it was not me)

He was sitting down.  And I get what you're saying, but you worked REAL hard to ignore the rest of my post (and the other issues I had with the interaction). 

You're absolutely right, in real life surprise attacks/etc. are definitely a thing.  I've no problem with surprise attacks.  There's just not a situation where you can move from a seated position to riding your bug at a run to the west before the other person can react, except that it's a text based game with text based limitations.  I find it a little lame, as I said.

Also, you aren't the arbiter of what threads should exist.  You'll have a much happier life if you just accept that sometimes people want to discuss things that you don't want to discuss, and have opinions that are different from your own.  You seem to want to dismiss the problem entirely, but there are clearly many people who see it as a problem worth talking about.  The weird, oldbie GDB poster urge to shut down all discussion that you, personally, see as pointless is one of the most toxic things about this place, and has been irritating since I started playing, decades ago.

[X-D]

Moderated my own post.

[Krath]

Simple Solution to the Mdesc issue: Staff Bring back the Mdesc Hiding Mask

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Simple Solution to the Mdesc issue: Staff Bring back the Mdesc Hiding Mask

I'd be alright with this, as soon as someone figures out how to force a person from the 'shadows' who is in a room full of people and know that you are standing right there, but can't in any way interact with you.

[ShaLeah]

Simple Solution to the Mdesc issue: Staff Bring back the Mdesc Hiding Mask

I'd be alright with this, as soon as someone figures out how to force a person from the 'shadows' who is in a room full of people and know that you are standing right there, but can't in any way interact with you.

I've said this for years and even posted it May last year:
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,53671.msg1011878.html#msg1011878

[rinthrat]

Simple Solution to the Mdesc issue: Staff Bring back the Mdesc Hiding Mask

I'd be alright with this, as soon as someone figures out how to force a person from the 'shadows' who is in a room full of people and know that you are standing right there, but can't in any way interact with you.

You can attack a shadow, you can steal from a shadow, and you can interact with them in the same manner that you would with a visible PC once you manage to start watching them. I'm not sure what the brawl code does in taverns if you try to 'hit' a shadow - maybe there's room for improvement there? But shadows are hardly invulnerable once you spotted them.

[Riev]

You are missing the point.

If Shaleah spots Rinthrat hiding in the Gaj, Riev cannot in any way interact with Rinthrat.
Even if Shaleah APPROACHES Rinthrat, and says "He is standing right here. Look. See this here? This is a person."

Its not about being "invulnerable", its that Riev will never be able to see Rinthrat, unless Shaleah performs an aggressive, likely unlawful action.

[kahuna]

On SOI I think you could reveal hidden people if you could see them, breaking their hide status.

[triste]

On SOI I think you could reveal hidden people if you could see them, breaking their hide status.

yep via the `point` command, the mechanic was not awkward and intuitively makes a lot of sense.

[X-D]

Point...One of the few things from SOI that I agree with. That and what is it, study? The method to get the sdesc of hooded/masked people.

[Delirium]

I moved a reported post and some associated responses to moderation. Please play nice, y'all.

[Dresan]

Arrived late to this discussion but just some thoughts:

1. I think stealth is fine the way it is, it is not as strong as people think without some sacrifice.

2. I would be okay with making hiding(but not sneaking into) in apartments tougher. It should not be so big of a penalty that someone who has invested in stealth would be overly concerned with it. However it would give those with master scan(mostly who haven't used wisdom as a stat dump) an easier time detecting the people who have are able to kill them the fastest but still not be able to stop someone who has just invested in stealth in order to spy on them.

3. Apartments should not be death traps. When you lock an apartment door from the inside, it should only be locking the door from the outside. Thus anyone on the inside can open the door and leave. Additionally, if you flee from inside an apartment with a closed door, the door should open automatically letting a person run out. (this avoids the need to break/fix doors)

4. Glad to see all the changes to certain poisons that should be rare, but at the same time the amount of cures people carry for common poison is absurd as well. Increasing decay rate for pills might help here.

I would be okay with changing paralyze/sleep to lower strength(significantly)/blindness instead, but at the same time, the effects of common poisons like grishen or bloodburn should double seeing how common and cheap cures are, and how quickly people can get away to safety anyways. 

5. As time passes, more love should be given to location around allanak like redstorm, luirs and rinth, this will help people not be so scared of failure when they can still go to these places to make a new life for themselves. That includes staff supporting and encouraging leadership PC in these area to have more conflict with allanak, rather than being open/secret allies who will sell out PC running from allanak.

[Hauwke]

Arrived late to this discussion but just some thoughts:

1. I think stealth is fine the way it is, it is not as strong as people think without some sacrifice.

2. I would be okay with making hiding(but not sneaking into) in apartments tougher. It should not be so big of a penalty that someone who has invested in stealth would be overly concerned with it. However it would give those with master scan(mostly who haven't used wisdom as a stat dump) an easier time detecting the people who have are able to kill them the fastest but still not be able to stop someone who has just invested in stealth in order to spy on them.

3. Apartments should not be death traps. When you lock an apartment door from the inside, it should only be locking the door from the outside. Thus anyone on the inside can open the door and leave. Additionally, if you flee from inside an apartment with a closed door, the door should open automatically letting a person run out. (this avoids the need to break/fix doors)

4. Glad to see all the changes to certain poisons that should be rare, but at the same time the amount of cures people carry for common poison is absurd as well. Increasing decay rate for pills might help here.

I would be okay with changing paralyze/sleep to lower strength(significantly)/blindness instead, but at the same time, the effects of common poisons like grishen or bloodburn should double seeing how common and cheap cures are, and how quickly people can get away to safety anyways. 

5. As time passes, more love should be given to location around allanak like redstorm, luirs and rinth, this will help people not be so scared of failure when they can still go to these places to make a new life for themselves. That includes staff supporting and encouraging leadership PC in these area to have more conflict with allanak, rather than being open/secret allies who will sell out PC running from allanak.

In the realm of realism technology wise, point 3 is a contentious one. Because that style of lock and handle requires 2 things, a complex lock and an actual turning handle with a mechanism. Zalanthan door locks in my mind are super simple, they have the teeth in there to stop any other key unlocking them, but all the lock is, is just a bolt that gets extended within the door to lock it against the frame.

If it even is as complex as that, given the fact they have only bone and wood to make mechanisms.

[Dresan]

In the realm of realism technology wise, point 3 is a contentious one.

Generally, I wouldn't even bother too much with logistics of it. After all, making specialized mechanisms are outside my RL expertise.

Basically the way I picture it is that the key is more like a small tool to help you open the door which not so much "locked" but rather barred from the inside, far from the concept of tiny key and locks we use in ever day life. Soon as the door is closed, the door would be "locked" again, but again easy to open from the inside.

However, given there are chest and smaller boxes with keys in a world without metal, umm, yeah I wouldn't over think it. In the same as I don't overthink that my character doesn't need to go take a shit as I play him for a couple of IC days or the fact he sometimes fights giant bugs or there are stories of magick in the known.  Perhaps they figured out some clever way to pull it off with bone, clay and stone which we never had to since we had metal.

[Hauwke]

To be fair, I don't make mechanisms either, So yeah.

And I can admit there could be one or two versions of it in circulation amongst nobility and nobility alone, I just can't believe that random commoners would get it in the first place.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

What's wrong with being able to unlock a door from the inside without a key?
I think that's a great idea, if it can be coded. Would solve a lot of issues and make plenty of sense.
Not at /all/ a complicated mechanism.

[Hauwke]

What's wrong with being able to unlock a door from the inside without a key?
I think that's a great idea, if it can be coded. Would solve a lot of issues and make plenty of sense.
Not at /all/ a complicated mechanism.

It's the actual physical mechanism, not the coded one.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

What's wrong with being able to unlock a door from the inside without a key?
I think that's a great idea, if it can be coded. Would solve a lot of issues and make plenty of sense.
Not at /all/ a complicated mechanism.

It's the actual physical mechanism, not the coded one.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean to say that a door lock is a complicated mechanism? Cuz I'm saying that it is not.
In fact, a mechanism that locks and unlocks with a key from the outside, but with a manual lever from the inside, is much less complicated than a mechanism that uses a key from both inside and outside, which is what we have now.

[Supified]

I dunno if this has been said, but it just occurred to me this scans pretty well with real life murder too.

For the most part, victims will run and scream for help and killing someone without locking them in or the element of surprise is pretty hard.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

It is indeed pretty realistic. I don't know what the hell could be changed. Other than, like... Maybe 'bash' having a chance to break down doors but making a hell of a lot of noise / alerting like... every fucking apartment nearby or something?