How about apartment large furniture that can be nailed/stuck.

[oggotale]

It seems a bit sad that people are apprehensive about investing in their rooms, given that it's a great way to spend the heaps of sid oldies have piling up, and that it's also a great way of creating your own "personal" environment in the game-world. In most RP games, having your own room is a nice bit of immersion/joy/IG connection for players, there's a lot of OOC value to the player here, just in a functional room that you know YOU'VE created, somehow (barring its use for hoarding gold/valuables).

It's also a bit unusual that things like tables and sofas are stolen by burglars, I mean it'd be normal if it was a riot situation but it's a bit odd that some fishy character the landlord has never seen is moving heaps of furniture out an apartment from under his nose.
How about adding a sticking/nailing command that helps "stick stuff down" in its place, with the only way to remove it being to junk it.

The suggestion operates on the idea that burglars stealing large/bulky furniture is intrinsically stupid.

But even not granting the above I was a bit put off by how seemingly trivial and value-less bits of large furniture are also not spared (with folks not really being bothered by the thought of pulling a cheap sofa to pawn off). To add a bit more of a hindrance to burglars stealing value-less shite, and to add a bit more motivation for apartment holders to enjoy structuring their rooms, how about adding a long timer to the "unfixing" of fixed PC furniture?

This suggestion only affects burglars who like stealing beds/sofas/large tables, accessibility of other loot would be completely unaffected

[Veselka]

Yeah I mean...

Moving furniture around should alert people in floors above and below you. They can decide to contact the authorities or not...

But considering how infallible stealth can be at high levels, it seems silly to have soldiers patrolling courtyards when they can't even see the people traipsing by with heaps of goodies (and furniture) and not call the cops (AoD/Templars).

I don't rent apartments anymore because they're basically pointless once someone has unlocked the 'Lockpick (Advanced)' achievement, and yada yada, dead horse, so on and so on. There should be downsides to using lock pick beyond them being difficult to obtain -- A chance of getting wanted, for instance.

[Miradus]

Park at the end of the hall and watch north.

Wait until you see someone wield a lockpick and try to pick a lock. This breaks hide.

Sap burglar.

Collect apartment protection bounty.

Repeat as needed.

ALL the tools necessary to solve this rampant burglary problem so may of you mention are available to players in game. If it was made more fun and lucrative than carrying out your sofa, that is.

[rinthrat]

Your neighbor could also steal your sofa, and furnish his own apartment with that. Or, drag it out in plain sight, and pretend it was his own all along when he carries it past the guard.

[Riev]

Park at the end of the hall and watch north.

Wait until you see someone wield a lockpick and try to pick a lock. This breaks hide.

Sap burglar.

Collect apartment protection bounty.

Repeat as needed.

ALL the tools necessary to solve this rampant burglary problem so may of you mention are available to players in game. If it was made more fun and lucrative than carrying out your sofa, that is.

Normally, yes. However, I have an hour a day to play the game, and have been able to be in a very lucrative position despite this constriction.
Even with all my coin, I cannot pay for someone to "sit and watch n" for the other 23hours I cannot be online, to have a 1/10 chance to see the hooded figure pick the lock to my room, then run into my room and try to attack them, without knowing the situation, before they hide. It is simply unfeasible and the suggestion that "all the tools necessary are available to players" is, frankly, both disrespectful and shortsighted.

I may as well just not keep anything of worth in my apartment. Even if you "pay off" the right people, you can't account for some 2am burglar with ties to nobody, or the Fale Aide whose noble has 1000 picks in their room "just in case!". There simply should be something between "burglars/assassins have full access to every rentable apartment in the city" and "Impenetrable fortress of doom hahah suck it sneaks"

[Synthesis]

Park at the end of the hall and watch north.

Wait until you see someone wield a lockpick and try to pick a lock. This breaks hide.

Sap burglar.

Collect apartment protection bounty.

Repeat as needed.

ALL the tools necessary to solve this rampant burglary problem so may of you mention are available to players in game. If it was made more fun and lucrative than carrying out your sofa, that is.

You can sleight-of-hand everything except the pick command now, if I recall correctly.  Good luck reacting, moving in, and getting a sap off before the re-hide.

> palm pick belt

> ready pick

> pick door e

> hide

> unlatch door e

Beyond that...what class combination is going to have hide good enough to beat a miscreant's master scan and a good enough sap skill to pull this off reliably?  If you're standing there like an idiot just waiting...I'm just going to unlatch your pack, steal all the coins out, and call it a successful run.  Fuck the apartments.

So I mean...I guess technically you thwarted the burglary...by becoming a victim of pickpocketing?  That's a real bro move, bro.

[Hauwke]

An alternative solution would be to simply make sneaking with large enough items cause the loss of the ability to sneak.

So far as I understand it, items have a weight and a size stat, this could be used to make it so that sneaky boi can't sneak his way past the guards with 4 wardrobes and a table.

[Cabooze]

An alternative solution would be to simply make sneaking with large enough items cause the loss of the ability to sneak.

So far as I understand it, items have a weight and a size stat, this could be used to make it so that sneaky boi can't sneak his way past the guards with 4 wardrobes and a table.

I think the problem comes from guards not giving a fuck, and there not being enough of them

[Cerelum]

I've played non burglar characters with sneak and hide at journeyman that almost never got seen by anyone.

I think the soldiers need to have perception increases so that a guy who's been alive for 100 years on commoners sees all the elves because his eyes are so damn good.  High master scan for soldiers!

[Cabooze]

I've played non burglar characters with sneak and hide at journeyman that almost never got seen by anyone.

I think the soldiers need to have perception increases so that a guy who's been alive for 100 years on commoners sees all the elves because his eyes are so damn good.  High master scan for soldiers!

I disagree. Soldier NPCs already have high scan as is.

[Cerelum]

I've played non burglar characters with sneak and hide at journeyman that almost never got seen by anyone.

I think the soldiers need to have perception increases so that a guy who's been alive for 100 years on commoners sees all the elves because his eyes are so damn good.  High master scan for soldiers!

I disagree. Soldier NPCs already have high scan as is.

I would assume that too but unless you're a secret staff alt who can see their skills, you don't know that.

Just how certain immensely scary critters would be assumed to have huge hp levels but actually don't.

[rinthrat]

Park at the end of the hall and watch north.

Wait until you see someone wield a lockpick and try to pick a lock. This breaks hide.

Sap burglar.

Collect apartment protection bounty.

Repeat as needed.

ALL the tools necessary to solve this rampant burglary problem so may of you mention are available to players in game. If it was made more fun and lucrative than carrying out your sofa, that is.

You can sleight-of-hand everything except the pick command now, if I recall correctly.  Good luck reacting, moving in, and getting a sap off before the re-hide.

> palm pick belt

> ready pick

> pick door e

> hide

> unlatch door e

Beyond that...what class combination is going to have hide good enough to beat a miscreant's master scan and a good enough sap skill to pull this off reliably?  If you're standing there like an idiot just waiting...I'm just going to unlatch your pack, steal all the coins out, and call it a successful run.  Fuck the apartments.

So I mean...I guess technically you thwarted the burglary...by becoming a victim of pickpocketing?  That's a real bro move, bro.

You can't ready anything from your inventory. Only sheathed items, and you can't sheathe a lockpick. You need to break hide to wield a lockpick, but not a knife. It doesn't make sense, but I guess it's kept that way for balance?

[Synthesis]

Park at the end of the hall and watch north.

Wait until you see someone wield a lockpick and try to pick a lock. This breaks hide.

Sap burglar.

Collect apartment protection bounty.

Repeat as needed.

ALL the tools necessary to solve this rampant burglary problem so may of you mention are available to players in game. If it was made more fun and lucrative than carrying out your sofa, that is.

You can sleight-of-hand everything except the pick command now, if I recall correctly.  Good luck reacting, moving in, and getting a sap off before the re-hide.

> palm pick belt

> ready pick

> pick door e

> hide

> unlatch door e

Beyond that...what class combination is going to have hide good enough to beat a miscreant's master scan and a good enough sap skill to pull this off reliably?  If you're standing there like an idiot just waiting...I'm just going to unlatch your pack, steal all the coins out, and call it a successful run.  Fuck the apartments.

So I mean...I guess technically you thwarted the burglary...by becoming a victim of pickpocketing?  That's a real bro move, bro.

You can't ready anything from your inventory. Only sheathed items, and you can't sheathe a lockpick. You need to break hide to wield a lockpick, but not a knife. It doesn't make sense, but I guess it's kept that way for balance?

Hmm...been awhile since my miscreant died.  Still, equipping the pick is essentially lag-free, and using it would break hide anyway, so it's more or less the same thing.

But, to get back to the point:  stealing people's furniture is dumb.  Stop doing it, jeeeeze.

[Brytta Léofa]

Make the furniture shop in Allanak sell-only.

(Unfortunately this disrupts legitimate furniture-makers, if that's a thing.)

[Miradus]

This game is the way it is because instead of doing things themselves, people want staff to do it for them. And won't lift a damn finger.

I've killed 3 burglars before, barely even looking for burglars. How did I find them? They were standing on balconies with cisterns, or trying to climb up the rooftops with a bed. Why did I kill them? In one case I was actually enforcing apartment protection, but the other two times I wanted their lockpicks.

Yeah, the top end miscreant with the top end scan you might not see, but those guys aren't usually the ones robbing the place blind either. All it takes is ONE screw up for them and you've got them. They're either seen and their description gets around, or they're dead.

And I understand you may not have hours to park in a hallway watching for thieves, but SOMEONE might. Have you even looked around in game and asked about it? Or do we just want to cry some more on the GDB until staff handicaps criminals even further so we can all go to our fashion shows and tourneys and noble house parties without worrying about our bling going missing?

There's LOTS of potential suggestions other than asking staff to do something. But most of the time, apartment thieves don't take your furniture. That's usually a very junior thief who is going to fall off the balcony tomorrow and then all the apartments are safe for a few RL weeks. It's the sloppy ones who leave the door open and then your neighbors rob you blind. The GOOD apartment thief, like me, takes one diamond out of the pack of eight that you put in a belt pouch and hid in a large bag inside of a bone-studded backpack which you then left on your rug. We treat your apartment like a Nenyuk account rather than loot it blind all in one go.

[Cerelum]

I think the main thing that sucks about criminals is that once they get to a certain level of hide/sneak they are damn near invisible.

I've had a miscreant with master scan, and still couldn't see some people.

I think scan should see every hider at master level honestly, otherwise how are you a master?

But that's another discussion pretty much all together.

I almost would be more for people having to have Karma for criminal characters rather than magickal characters in some regards.

[Eyeball]

Drovians could have been the perfect foil for thieves. Anyone hiding would have "taken a step toward the shadows". They could have had some trap-like spell that would swallow hiders up and force them to wander through some maze of shadow, potentially being attacked and killed, before being spat out who know where. Or something along that line.

Anyhow. Maybe the solution is to make furniture really heavy. It's hard to sneak about when weighed down, and the doorkeepers could shout for the guards when someone who isn't renting tries to leave while balancing a couch or wardrobe.

[Jihelu]

Make the furniture shop in Allanak sell-only.

(Unfortunately this disrupts legitimate furniture-makers, if that's a thing.)

I've never found a shop to buy furniture outside of a shop that shouldn't buy chests, buying chests.

[Riev]

I think the main thing that sucks about criminals is that once they get to a certain level of hide/sneak they are damn near invisible.

Vehemently disagree.

If a criminal survives long enough to be damn near invisible, the vast majority of times they slowly learn to steal the quiver of arrows, not the entire goddamned bed.

The main thing that sucks about criminals is that Junior Miss Criminal can get into just about every apartment in the city and there is no way to enforce it. Why would I spend my coin on replacing furniture every week, until Junior Miss falls off a balcony? Why can't I pay a higher cost to prevent this from happening, rather than shitty insurance that when it DOES happen, someone might give a shit?

[oggotale]

Miscreants being invisible is a different issue, I did not intend to.open that pandora's box.

This thread is particularly about burglars stealing huge furniture, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE VISIBLE WHILE DOING THIS.
They could be visible and the NPCs/VPNCs landlords etc, by virtue of being NPCs, aren't going to call in on the random stranger dragging rows of couches and tables out the apartment. But for some reason such a thing is not expected to be internalised by thieves as it is.

An alternative to my suggestion would be for the staff to clarify that "hey, stealing large bits of furniture is a pretty retarded thing to do in most cases".

[Brokkr]

I certainly hope none of the staff would be callous enough to insult people with intellectual disabilities in that way.

[th3kaiser]

Heh heh. Sometimes your posts crack me up, Brokkr.

[Brokkr]

Are you accusing me of double or triple entendre?

[Cerelum]

I was just going to respond that staff hardly ever respond to posts of this nature.

Proven wrong and happily so.

I personally think that they probably discuss all sorts of shit we post, just in their super sekret staff only forums.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Once I played a burglar when Tuluk was still in play, and I remember while burgling a place, I was spotted by a Noble. I (probably quite cheesily) explained that I was leaving the apartment and asked if he would like to buy some furniture. He happily obliged me and gave me triple what I asked to take the bed and everything else. Some time later, when applying to (redacted) another noble (templar?) asked if I knew where he could get a bed. I think I fell out of my chair laughing. It was great!

Anyway, it's true that burgling couches is sorta crazy, but I guess if in RL someone can pull up in my driveway and carry out a sixty inch television with no one asking questions....

I do think though, that something more could be done with apartments. Maybe be able to pay more for better locks? That need a master to pick? Or perhaps NPC  guards that can be hired for a fee?

[Cerelum]

Once I played a burglar when Tuluk was still in play, and I remember while burgling a place, I was spotted by a Noble. I (probably quite cheesily) explained that I was leaving the apartment and asked if he would like to buy some furniture. He happily obliged me and gave me triple what I asked to take the bed and everything else. Some time later, when applying to (redacted) another noble (templar?) asked if I knew where he could get a bed. I think I fell out of my chair laughing. It was great!

Anyway, it's true that burgling couches is sorta crazy, but I guess if in RL someone can pull up in my driveway and carry out a sixty inch television with no one asking questions....

I do think though, that something more could be done with apartments. Maybe be able to pay more for better locks? That need a master to pick? Or perhaps NPC  guards that can be hired for a fee?

Hire a Krathi gemmed player and give him access to your apartment, get special permission to allow him to practice in said apartment, fireball to the burglar's face, problem solved.

But joking aside, I don't think there ever will be a solution other than criminals playing criminals more responsibly.

[Dresan]

• Stealth outside miscreant/stalker is a lot worse than people think.
• Even master stealth isn't as infallible as some people think either, it never was to be honest.
• Miscreant/stalker's main survival tool is stealth as their combat skills are quite poor.
• In short it really is pretty balanced at the moment

If someone steals your sofa or furniture you deem heavy, why not send a report to staff.

However, there is nothing wrong with someone stealing your sofa or even deciding to clean out your room at 2 am, but perhaps staff willl look into it and decide that this is something that might have been noticed by vnpcs and give you a description. After that it'll be up to you to do something about it, or pay someone to care.

There are counters to stealth, more so now than before, no drovians needed. After all many time just knowing a thief's description is a death sentence to them.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I think the OP is trying to point out that it is rather absurd for supposedly a master of stealth to go stealing furniture, and they're right, it is.

What would be the problem with being able to pay NPC guards to watch over your place while you are logged out? They could charge by the hour, and I believe it would add something to the game even for burglars. Guards are not infallible, and a master of stealth still has a chance to sneak by without being noticed. At the very least, furniture should weigh enough that stealth is broken, if it doesn't do that already.

[Dresan]

Most of the time its your neighbors.

Secondly it is not absurd to steal any of your virtual shit, but it should indeed be noticed if its something like furniture. Send a report, and have staff take a look to see if it is something that should have been noticed and have them give you a description.

Increasing the weight of furniture is fine as anything beyond light has a big effect on stealth, but remember you need to be able to carry it in yourself.

I am okay with people being able to a lot pay more to add npc guards to their doors to protect heavier stuff like furniture from getting stolen but it won't save your other goodies from spice assisted return trips. 

[gotdamnmiracle]

I don't think there's anything that can be done, honestly. In a similar thread some players bragged about griefing other players by stealing things from their apartments and rationalized it by say "well they could've just payed me?". Even though I may view this as irresponsible play and simply shitty RP, and I could likely murder this dude into oblivion, I cannot play round the clock nor will I ask others to sit in my apartment with triggers (or laughably just hang around 18 hours a day as if the player could do that).

I am, however, open to the idea of hiring NPCs.

[oggotale]

I'm not for NPC guards outside apartments, I'm not for anything that intrusive to be honest (unless they were super expensive, but it seems like too much code work), I think theives aren't too badly balanced given their skillset overall.

I just think that
1) Thieves themselves don't have much to gain from heavy furniture in particular, so it's not affecting them much if they can't steal that.
2) Heavy furiniture seems to be able to add a good deal of enjoyment for players OOC
3) Stealing heavy furniture is generally instrincially stupid already, seems nice to have a more explicit way to stop that from happening.