Campfires...

[path]

I don't see why the dung cart would distain dried dung. I imagine they think all dung is good dung.

[Akariel]

Campfires are made with the following recipe: 4x Resources, 1x Kindling
You can make kindling through the following recipe: 3x Tinder

You can make firewood by breaking down larger branches or logs.

You can make dried dung by spending time drying out certain dungs, mainly herbivorous.

You can make tinder through crafting various products that might be flammable around the Known. This includes small wood-stuffs, certain fungi and the like, ect.

Xalle and I looked into the process of fire-creation maybe 2-3 years back now. We made the system much easier to utilize, we also took off the crafting time for most portions of it. We did not, however, make it easy. We wanted the system to continue to be a struggle to keep up with. This is a resource starved world, not a scenic jaunt through the campground. Finding firewood should be difficult in a world with a minimal amount of trees.

Ideally, the idea was that people would attempt to prepare for ventures before they took them.

[rinthrat]

Why does drying dung take so long, and still fails what feels like half the time with advanced cooking, though? That seems to adds nothing but a hassle.

[Cerelum]

I was actually going to submit a request with a game bug on ding drying because of the time it takes as well.  However, I don't wanna become annoying by bugging everything.

[Sokotra]

Campfires are made with the following recipe: 4x Resources, 1x Kindling
You can make kindling through the following recipe: 3x Tinder

You can make firewood by breaking down larger branches or logs.

You can make dried dung by spending time drying out certain dungs, mainly herbivorous.

You can make tinder through crafting various products that might be flammable around the Known. This includes small wood-stuffs, certain fungi and the like, ect.

Xalle and I looked into the process of fire-creation maybe 2-3 years back now. We made the system much easier to utilize, we also took off the crafting time for most portions of it. We did not, however, make it easy. We wanted the system to continue to be a struggle to keep up with. This is a resource starved world, not a scenic jaunt through the campground. Finding firewood should be difficult in a world with a minimal amount of trees.

Ideally, the idea was that people would attempt to prepare for ventures before they took them.

It's mainly some issues with dung that doesn't seem very reasonable.  Currently it is much easier to make a fire with wood than it is with dung, I believe.  Being able to forage and otherwise find dried dung would seem to make sense and perhaps make the creation of dung-fires be on a similar level as wood-fires, at least as far as time and effort goes.

[Akariel]

You can find dung in almost every stable the Known over. There is a coded object, and you can codedly dig in it. I believe the syntax is 'dig <keyword>'.

That said, I probably should look at dung crafting times because I don't think we touched those.

[John]

Campfires are made with the following recipe: 4x Resources, 1x Kindling
You can make kindling through the following recipe: 3x Tinder

You can make firewood by breaking down larger branches or logs.

You can make dried dung by spending time drying out certain dungs, mainly herbivorous.

You can make tinder through crafting various products that might be flammable around the Known. This includes small wood-stuffs, certain fungi and the like, ect.

Xalle and I looked into the process of fire-creation maybe 2-3 years back now. We made the system much easier to utilize, we also took off the crafting time for most portions of it. We did not, however, make it easy. We wanted the system to continue to be a struggle to keep up with. This is a resource starved world, not a scenic jaunt through the campground. Finding firewood should be difficult in a world with a minimal amount of trees.

Ideally, the idea was that people would attempt to prepare for ventures before they took them.

Can you please check the 4xresource+kindling vs 3xresource+kindling?

I swear I could make medium campfires with only 3 lengths of firewood.

To also clarify: dried dung can also be turned into kindling.

As someone who has utilized campfires in the north they are 100% something you have to prepare for. Higher skilled characters intimately familiar with an area MAY be able to gather and craft the required resources at their destination. But it isnt guaranteed. So for that goal the system is 100% successful. Most people dont bother because at the moment their is minimal coded advantage. And because the recipe for dung campfires (until now) have been so esoteric as to be frustrating.

Finally campfires in the south seem of a similar difficulty as those in the north EXCEPT for the time (much longer in the south due to air drying dung). Creating tinder is a great way to boost your cooking skill in the north because its freaking difficult. 20 resources = 1 piece of tinder at a Novice skill. That's at least 1 IC hour worth of work.

Can we get grills coded to use dung with the syntax on their use clearly documented? Then we could introduce dried dung sellers and a need for people to seek out dung.

[John]

One of the code projects was to require recipes with cooked food to require actual fire in the room. Some recipes were converted and some rooms were updated to include the presence of virtual fires.

But the recipe conversion was never finished (I assume for playability reasons). If we were to make stables + mount sellers + gate rooms save rooms (so the contents persist over reboots) I expect all of the remaining recipes could be converted over without impacting too much on playability.

[Sokotra]

You can find dung in almost every stable the Known over. There is a coded object, and you can codedly dig in it. I believe the syntax is 'dig <keyword>'.

Yep, I realize that.  I meant finding already dried dung as opposed to having to go through the ridiculously long drying process unless for some reason you can't find dry dung in certain cases.  Currently you can't forage or otherwise find already dried dung, which should be abundantly available.

[oggotale]

Any character can make a campfire. The blurb about making camp in the wilderness refers to wilderness quit. You can quit in any wilderness room, like rangers could.

Dried dung will work for a campfire instead of firewood. I am not sure if branch objects even work without crafting them into fireworks first.

They should really be more direct about that instead of trying to make it immersive haha.

I remember getting very confused about that as a new player, thinking that every other class literally can't/aren't allowed to start campfires outside Allanak.

Also, what's the use of campfires other cooking and realism? Is the difficulty of putting them up a factor of them being able to make quit-safe rooms or better rest rates or something?

[Riev]

Cooking, realism, and there are terrible creatures at night that can attack you in the dark. At least with a campfire, you can see what is attacking you.

[Nameless Face]

Campfires are for dancing joyously around.  Sheesh.

[Cerelum]

Cooking, realism, and there are terrible creatures at night that can attack you in the dark. At least with a campfire, you can see what is attacking you.

I wish this was a thing.

I actually have spent whole nights out looking for nocturnal critters and finding none.

It would be sweet as shit if critters reacted to fire and came out during different times of the day.

[Namino]

Campfires are also pretty inconsistent at lighting up the darkness. Even after piling on enough wood to make a campfire as big as it will get, there's still a really good chance that you're just going to get sand swirling around you when you look.

Granted, the coded penalties of fighting something when it's a faint shape versus fighting 'Someone' when you're blind or in total darkness are worlds apart, especially if 'someone' is an enemy with nightsight, so campfires still are helpful in that regard, but it'd be nice if having a massive roaring bonfire was more of an effect on nighttime visibility outside of combat.

[Hauwke]

Campfires are also pretty inconsistent at lighting up the darkness. Even after piling on enough wood to make a campfire as big as it will get, there's still a really good chance that you're just going to get sand swirling around you when you look.

Granted, the coded penalties of fighting something when it's a faint shape versus fighting 'Someone' when you're blind or in total darkness are worlds apart, especially if 'someone' is an enemy with nightsight, so campfires still are helpful in that regard, but it'd be nice if having a massive roaring bonfire was more of an effect on nighttime visibility outside of combat.

That would be because they act as a light source like a torch. At least to my knowledge. They are thus still bound to the ambient light levels that are around.

[Cerelum]

I wish the sand blowing in your face thing wasn't a thing.

Maybe take that out and just replace it with darkness or light.

This mechanic can make it literally impossible to go places without knowing exact directions sometimes.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to power through a storm to Red Storm and ended up in the silt sea before I learned the foolproof directions.

[Veselka]

I wish the sand blowing in your face thing wasn't a thing.

Maybe take that out and just replace it with darkness or light.

This mechanic can make it literally impossible to go places without knowing exact directions sometimes.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to power through a storm to Red Storm and ended up in the silt sea before I learned the foolproof directions.

Isn't that the point of sandstorms in a desert world? It isn't supposed to be like getting on a freeway.

[Cerelum]

I wish the sand blowing in your face thing wasn't a thing.

Maybe take that out and just replace it with darkness or light.

This mechanic can make it literally impossible to go places without knowing exact directions sometimes.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to power through a storm to Red Storm and ended up in the silt sea before I learned the foolproof directions.

Isn't that the point of sandstorms in a desert world? It isn't supposed to be like getting on a freeway.

Fair point, however, this is the challenge.

We aren't playing a real life simulator for everything.

We have flying invisible witches.

We have people shooting fireballs

We can bring a man back from the brink of death in a magick spell.

That's sorta the challenge of realism in a game format.

Sure we all want realism, but we also don't want to be cut off from whole sections of the game world that we very well MAY need to get to for sometimes RL days because a sandstorm kicked up that makes us unable to see anything at noon.

So I would say yes, Sandstorms suck, but we already are penalized on stamina drain on our mounts, vision distance, hunting skill and other things that are affected by sandstorms.

I'm sorta against being totally blind an unable to navigate because the wind picked up from a stringing sandstorm to a terrible one.

[Namino]

I think sandstorms themselves are fine. I think a sandstorm should prevent a campfire from working for illumination. If you cannot see during the day during a sandstorm, you ought not be able to see by the light of a campfire.

The problem is even with a large campfire and totally still winds, oftentimes you won't see anything but swirling sand. The campfire needs illumination buffs badly. Many phases of the moon provide much more light than a maximum size campfire does, and that's odd.

[oggotale]

I think sandstorms themselves are fine. I think a sandstorm should prevent a campfire from working for illumination. If you cannot see during the day during a sandstorm, you ought not be able to see by the light of a campfire.

The problem is even with a large campfire and totally still winds, oftentimes you won't see anything but swirling sand. The campfire needs illumination buffs badly. Many phases of the moon provide much more light than a maximum size campfire does, and that's odd.

If lore inconsistency is the issue here Id argue that wilderness rooms are meant to be bigger right, so yea technically you should be able to see your friend next to you around the campfire, if you can see him in the moonlight.

But, you would not see that beetle that walked in towards the ede of your "league" area, just based on campfire, you'll need moonlight for that, which gives the genera area a hint of visibility.

An intricate system taking this into account is a pipe dream, other than that the trade-off is between making both your friend and the beetle visible or both invisible (ideally your friend is and the beetle isn't). I think going with the latter option here maked sense.