Off-peak gathering place pings

[MeTekillot]

A command at taverns and other gathering places that would be locally known that lets you notify players in the same area that there are players interested in roleplaying at x room. Maybe only available when there's less than 20-10 people online. I'm so alone.

[zztri]

[whisper]Find me, I'm in Tek's tower, the penthouse.[/whisper]

I've seen noone today. Thankfully I was prepared for that, planning to do some off-peak stuff to leave socializing to the later hours.

It's actually a good idea. I would use it.

[oggotale]

What do you mean by a ping?

If we want to make this IC why not add a command usable at taverns to create an environmental effect in a certain radius that goes something like.

"You see a notably large flux of drunks wander through from %<Tavern> direction"

As an offpeaker I agree, this would be totally useful as long as its something natural.

[Heade]

Good idea, Met.

I think this would be a good idea specifically for taverns. I wouldn't make it population dependant, but I'd probably put a long timer between uses(like 15 minutes) so that people couldn't spam it to annoy people in the game.

I struggle to think of a way to present it without being jarring in certain circumstances, though. If it is a strictly OOC notification, some people may not like it, and if it's IC, it wouldn't always be applicable. For instance, if you made the notification echo something like:

"You overhear some people talking, saying the Gaj is a happening spot right now."

In most public places, that'd be fine. Would be a little wierd in the wilderness or in an apartment, though. I guess in an apartment, maybe you heard people talking outside or something. But in the wilderness it'd be almost completely out of place.

I guess you could put a flag on it that customized the message based on whether you were in a city or wilderness room, something like:

City: You hear some passersby talking about how there is a lot of activity in the Storm's End Tavern right now.
Wilderness: A passing nomad mentions to his companion that the Storm's End Tavern seems to be a good place to meet people.


Would still be strange to hear one of those if you're delving into a deep, dark, unpopulated cave somewhere.

[Brokkr]

I'm not sure blending OOC and IC is a great idea, when in theory one could just do something like:

who t
Players
______
                               
The Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern - 5 players
The Main Room of the Red's Retreat - 1 player
The Storm's End Tavern - 2 players


There are 30 visible players currently in the world.

Beyond all the OOC meta stuff that might be possible, would players go to a tavern that wasn't listed because it currently has no players, for interaction?  If not, that is a vicious downward cycle.  One that we see regularly in places like ISO tribes, where folks log in, who c, and quit out.

[Heade]

I'm not sure blending OOC and IC is a great idea, when in theory one could just do something like:

who t
Players
______
                               
The Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern - 5 players
The Main Room of the Red's Retreat - 1 player
The Storm's End Tavern - 2 players


There are 30 visible players currently in the world.

Beyond all the OOC meta stuff that might be possible, would players go to a tavern that wasn't listed because it currently has no players, for interaction?  If not, that is a vicious downward cycle.  One that we see regularly in places like ISO tribes, where folks log in, who c, and quit out.

I agree with you about the vicious downward cycle, Brokkr. Which is why it would be better to do it the reverse of that, as suggested in this thread. By putting the onus on players IN the taverns to send out the echo, players who are looking for interaction could still go check on their own, because not EVERYONE would necessarily use this command.

So, unlike a simple who -t command that could encourage players to just log out if no one is in their favorite locations, it would encourage people to go to their favorite locations and send out the world echo, trying to draw other people there.

[oggotale]

I'm not sure blending OOC and IC is a great idea, when in theory one could just do something like:

who t
Players
______
                               
The Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern - 5 players
The Main Room of the Red's Retreat - 1 player
The Storm's End Tavern - 2 players


There are 30 visible players currently in the world.

Beyond all the OOC meta stuff that might be possible, would players go to a tavern that wasn't listed because it currently has no players, for interaction?  If not, that is a vicious downward cycle.  One that we see regularly in places like ISO tribes, where folks log in, who c, and quit out.

We get that stag-hunt problem here yea, but it's offpeak we're not talking about "30 visible players", where you would already expect a full tavern, so players fill in to the tavern without the prompt, given that they expect the population of the tavern to be high (and revealing that it's not would turn them off). In that kind of case (where taverns are filled as a rule) one might start worrying about implementing this system because one would worry about how frequently this upstart who goes to 0 pop taverns might be around.

However, we're talking about "8 visible players" in such a case, people by default already expect 0 players in the tavern, so you have barren taverns as a rule, having this system gives the upstart who decides to go to a 0 population tavern a chance to get it filled by tipping the equilibrium whenever this upstart is around. So you'd rather bet on this upstart being, since that's more likely than being the tavern filling on its own now (the latter being a lot less likely offpeak)

[daughterofauset]

Evolution of Esos/Southland's had a command that would basically just allow you to report your whereabouts on the who list if you were in a public spot with a ldesc like space to tack on a thing, but as soon as you left the rooms flagged to report from, it would automatically remove you, so you might see something like:

Who
------------------------------------------+
0 visible staff
15 players
-------------------------------------------
The fancy-tressed, frail woman is having a drinking contest at Red's.
The angular, pitch-eyed man is holding a dice game at the Gaj
The figure in a hooded, black sandcloth windcloak is smoking out at the Storm's Eye.
The scarred, fetish-braided woman is entertaining at the Storm's End.


(As an example). Of course, this could also be localized by settlement and/or by clan.

[Veselka]

I've seen it in other games (Harshlands RPI I think) where it basically says 'sdesc is in blah blah tavern room, available to RP'.

It was much more useful on that MUD because it's such a lower population than ArmageddonMUD even, that you could go literal days without seeing someone unless people used this command.

I could see it being useful -- I could see it being abused as well, akin to what Brokkr was mentioning. But I also think it puts the onus on the player requesting interaction -- Do you care who you interact with, even if it is a bad interaction for your PC? If not, I don't see a problem.

[Heade]

(As an example). Of course, this could also be localized by settlement and/or by clan.

I wouldn't really want localization with the game in it's current state.

I think we generally have few enough players on, and a small enough world in the absence of Tuluk, that localization would only hamper the desired effect. Wherever you put that "line" where someone would get the message or not, if they're right outside of it, it wouldn't work. So I'd rather just see a world echo like mentioned earlier.

The world echo also wouldn't specify a particular character, so that this wouldn't be abused for character sniping. You'd just know -someone- was at X tavern, available for RP.

[Nao]

Just finding any interaction at all can be a bit of a struggle, I would appreciate any tool that helps me find people, or tells me who is available.

How about something like the 'notify' command SOI used to have? For those of you that aren't familiar with it, you would type 'notify <clanname>' and that would let everyone that had notifications on know that you were available.

Since Armageddon doesn't put you in a clan based on your location, it would have to be location-based instead of clan-based, but I can see it working. Since it's optional for both sides (you don't need to type 'notify' if you're trying to hide, and you don't need to have notifications turned on if you don't want to be spammed, or don't want to receive them at all. 'Contact' allows for more abuse than this.

[oggotale]

Just finding any interaction at all can be a bit of a struggle, I would appreciate any tool that helps me find people, or tells me who is available.

How about something like the 'notify' command SOI used to have? For those of you that aren't familiar with it, you would type 'notify <clanname>' and that would let everyone that had notifications on know that you were available.

Since Armageddon doesn't put you in a clan based on your location, it would have to be location-based instead of clan-based, but I can see it working. Since it's optional for both sides (you don't need to type 'notify' if you're trying to hide, and you don't need to have notifications turned on if you don't want to be spammed, or don't want to receive them at all. 'Contact' allows for more abuse than this.

So this would be a purely OOC command?

I think Brokkr was cautious about anything that bridges IC and OOC as such.

If we want to make such a thing more IC one could have a pulsate command over way, that sends people in the same zone a way message like "You feel a pulse coming from <direction>, you feel that the origin is <roommate>".

Of course this means that CooldudelonerTM characters wont have an IC reason to pulse, even if OOCly the player wants interaction. But whatever.

[Nao]

Just finding any interaction at all can be a bit of a struggle, I would appreciate any tool that helps me find people, or tells me who is available.

How about something like the 'notify' command SOI used to have? For those of you that aren't familiar with it, you would type 'notify <clanname>' and that would let everyone that had notifications on know that you were available.

Since Armageddon doesn't put you in a clan based on your location, it would have to be location-based instead of clan-based, but I can see it working. Since it's optional for both sides (you don't need to type 'notify' if you're trying to hide, and you don't need to have notifications turned on if you don't want to be spammed, or don't want to receive them at all. 'Contact' allows for more abuse than this.

So this would be a purely OOC command?

I think Brokkr was cautious about anything that bridges IC and OOC as such.

If we want to make such a thing more IC one could have a pulsate command over way, that sends people in the same zone a way message like "You feel a pulse coming from <direction>, you feel that the origin is <roommate>".

Of course this means that CooldudelonerTM characters wont have an IC reason to pulse, even if OOCly the player wants interaction. But whatever.

Yes, this would be purely OOC. I understood Brokkr's objections as 'we don't need to mix the two into some weird forced union', not as 'we don't want OOC info'. The 'who -t' suggestion was also OOC info only.

[Synthesis]

We don't need a command to know when people are in taverns.

Just walk there.  They'll most likely be there from early afternoon to dawn.

If you can't be arsed to check...geeeeze...you deserve to be forever alone.

[Inks]

We don't need a command to know when people are in taverns.

Just walk there.  They'll most likely be there from early afternoon to dawn.

If you can't be arsed to check...geeeeze...you deserve to be forever alone.

This.

[Lizzie]

What about something slightly more detailed than the current "who" but less detailed than the above suggestions?

who -v

There are 3 PCs in Allanak Proper
There is 1 PC in Morin's.
There are 2 PCs in Luir's
There is 1 PC in Red Storm Village
There are 6 PCs somewhere else.

With the rinth, the tablelands, Cenyr, flying in the skies, burrowed underground, the Canyon of Wastes, Salt Flats/desert, etc. etc. etc. all being part of "somewhere else" to maintain that IC air of mystery for those who ONLY want to know if there's a chance they'll actually run into a PC in the city.

I think it'd be important to NOT divulge which 3 PCs are in Allanak - because like it or not, there are players who will think - hey no Arm, no nobles, no templars. I can totally shank that tressy-tressed aide now and as long as the NPCs don't see me doing it I'll get away with it.

Unfortunately, if there are only 3 PCs in Allanak, and you're sitting at the bar with 2 of them (with you making the third), you can also breathe easy knowing that there's still a good chance of you getting away with murdering her, because you still know the templar or noble or Arm sergeant aren't logged in.

I still think there's some way to make that work though.

[Heade]

There are 3 PCs in Allanak Proper
There is 1 PC in Morin's.
There are 2 PCs in Luir's
There is 1 PC in Red Storm Village
There are 6 PCs somewhere else.

For the reasons you've already described, and more, I don't like this idea. People will also use this to just case areas for apartment burglary, too. Oh, it's 5am server and there are 6 people on? Let's see where they're at. Oh, ok, so safe to burgle in Nak and Luir's right now. Score!

I much prefer the "self-ping" idea. Where it just sends out a global notification SOMEONE is at X tavern. It isn't specific, so can't be used for character sniping, and it's voluntary, only giving OTHER people information, so it can't be used to garner knowledge for abusing the system when it comes to things like crime.

[Inks]

There are 3 PCs in Allanak Proper
There is 1 PC in Morin's.
There are 2 PCs in Luir's
There is 1 PC in Red Storm Village
There are 6 PCs somewhere else.

For the reasons you've already described, and more, I don't like this idea. People will also use this to just case areas for apartment burglary, too. Oh, it's 5am server and there are 6 people on? Let's see where they're at. Oh, ok, so safe to burgle in Nak and Luir's right now. Score!

I much prefer the "self-ping" idea. Where it just sends out a global notification SOMEONE is at X tavern. It isn't specific, so can't be used for character sniping, and it's voluntary, only giving OTHER people information, so it can't be used to garner knowledge for abusing the system when it comes to things like crime.

This would suck for immersion. IMO

[Heade]

There are 3 PCs in Allanak Proper
There is 1 PC in Morin's.
There are 2 PCs in Luir's
There is 1 PC in Red Storm Village
There are 6 PCs somewhere else.

For the reasons you've already described, and more, I don't like this idea. People will also use this to just case areas for apartment burglary, too. Oh, it's 5am server and there are 6 people on? Let's see where they're at. Oh, ok, so safe to burgle in Nak and Luir's right now. Score!

I much prefer the "self-ping" idea. Where it just sends out a global notification SOMEONE is at X tavern. It isn't specific, so can't be used for character sniping, and it's voluntary, only giving OTHER people information, so it can't be used to garner knowledge for abusing the system when it comes to things like crime.

This would suck for immersion. IMO

Well, I already described how it could echo to address that, early on in the thread.

[Nao]

This would suck for immersion. IMO

What sucks for immersion is not being able to find a single PC that is willing to interact with you in any way, shape or form.

If you could turn it off, would that solve the issue?

[oggotale]

We don't need a command to know when people are in taverns.

Just walk there.  They'll most likely be there from early afternoon to dawn.

If you can't be arsed to check...geeeeze...you deserve to be forever alone.

This.

It really is worth keeping in mind if you've experienced enough off-peak playtime to comment on these things.

This seems untrue. People might be willing to RP in a tavern but end up walking there at different times and finding noone.

As explained earlier, this isn't a problem in peak times because the chances of simultaneously bumping into other players and starting a "tavern filling" effect is more likely. This is not the case off-peak.

[Inks]

I am an off peak Australian who has played the game for 10 years at least, trust me, I know.

I still don't really have a problem with tavern interaction. Find some interesting pcs at that time. I thought Metekillot was on-peak? Not sure.

Either way I have never had a problem with how things work regarding running into those 7 PCs online, the world isn't that big and you would be surprised how often it happens.

[MeTekillot]

Well I am going to choose to have my anecdotal experience and the anecdotal experiences of several of the other people in this thread override yours and say that finding interaction while playing off-peak is problematic, Inks.

[Inks]

Good for you. I am always sure you are just trying to twink your 'posts started' GDB skill.

[oggotale]

I am an off peak Australian who has played the game for 10 years at least, trust me, I know.

I still don't really have a problem with tavern interaction. Find some interesting pcs at that time. I thought Metekillot was on-peak? Not sure.

Either way I have never had a problem with how things work regarding running into those 7 PCs online, the world isn't that big and you would be surprised how often it happens.

Huh, doesn't really work out for me. Even if I sit around long enough at times.

[CodeMaster]

Take it easy guys (I don't see any problem in starting posts.  I wish I did it more often myself).  "Pings" are a controversial idea and probably hard to get traction with, but you never know.  It's interesting to think about.

Another angle on this: in the past I know there have been unofficial "off-peak" clans that arise organically, like some kind of cellular automata where off-peakers gather under one flag.  Maybe an unforeseen effect of eliminating Salarr/Kadius's hunting units has been to hinder off-peakers' ability to glom together within the structure of a clan.

There are a few new clans that seem friendly to off-peakers (the Garrison, the Dust Runners) -- so this is something off-peak leaders could think about.  But maybe more could be done there.

[Cind]

I like Brokkr's idea, actually, mostly because I love living in outposts but often have to choose between long periods of work that don't end for a while or going 15-18 rooms to check on tavern pops.