Estranged Veterans' Perspective

[Marauder Moe]

I really don't want to re-hash the RAT argument here.

I'd rather hear from people in a similar situation to mine share their experiences and preferences, in the hopes that if some commonalities emerge then maybe we can work on addressing them.

[RogueGunslinger]

My biggest hurdles are mostly personal, and revolves around getting a character established in the game, and then, after that has happened, keeping interest when I'm established and there doesn't seem to be much going on.

It's like I'm sick of the set-up and initial grind, then I'm too impatient after shit has been set up to just wait for the opportunity to roleplay. I'll get a different idea that sounds fun and I usually store and then go through the cycle again... but I haven't been re-starting the cycle much lately.

[BadSkeelz]

I can certainly echo you on points 3 and 4, Moe.

When I started playing Arm, the chronology page was pretty up-to-date with some earthshaking events. Specifically the appear of the black moon. It was recent enough that I could incorporate it in to a young character's background, and had some significant impact on my starting city of choice. It was a great hook to the game world. I think the Chronology page has failed hard at this in the last few RL years. Most of the events are related to Tuluk (closed) or the tribes (very small section of the playerbase). I don't know what the hell is going on in Allanak lately. What has my character grown up with? What should they care about? I don't know.

And because I'm always happy to re-hash the argument, I do miss the RAT. The discord is nice and all. But it's a real time chat-scroll that you have to be actively paying attention to to get the full benefit of. The RAT you could catch up with on your lunchbreak, then again at home. It was a spawning ground for other threads and general interest. It let people across widely different timezones communicate and play off of each other.

[BadSkeelz]

Just to tack on to one of my points:

The most recent Chronology page entry for Allanak happend more than thirty fucking IG years ago.

c.1633 (Year 16 Age 22)
A rogue defiler makes an appearance in an Allanaki tavern. After exchanging jibes with a blue robed templar he is quickly escorted from the premises. Later that day a large crowd gathers in the Dragon Temple to witness the defiler's execution. Lord Eligeth of the Red, after turning the defiler to a pile of ash, is heard to remark that any such rogue will find a quick death if they dare approach Tektolnes' City.

There's been some events since then. I can't remember when the DBZ Fight was but really... that should be there at the least.

[tapas]

Much of the recent information is on the city message boards. But I guess you can't access those without logging into a character.

I think it would be nice if a few select board posts were curated and added to the chronology page.

[ShaLeah]

I'm pretty vocal about my feelings on the changes of this game. For the first time in my 17 years I decided to stop playing because of a combination of the changes, how I feel about certain staff and ooc things.  It's the first time I've experienced this kind of burn out and lost faith in staff.

This is not the game I fell in love with and it might just be that I've outgrown it or can't keep up with it.  I'm sure I'll jones for it eventually, ginka is a jealous and possessive mistress and we know she must be fed but for now I've unhooked my IV and am watching from the sidelines.

In my perception we've lost some... a lot... of our grit.  The changes to the magick system, the removal of full sorcerors and nilazi are of particular concern since it happened post the plot my Borsail noble was a pawn in. I will not get into the things I've learned about that plot or the things I know about the players involved in it but I'm pretty certain that plot was the catalyst to that change.  It made the world less scary. 

I never thought I'd say this but... Tuluk closing.  It should have been changed. Not removed.

The changes to the crafting system.

The changes in Karma.

Staff shit. I won't get into details here either since I have respect for the system at large and most of the individuals. There are things I've learned via experience and former staff that have really disappointed me.

The theme has changed, so have the players, so has the consistency.  Things are "open to interpretation" now where once they were not.

The perma banning of movers and shakers who were verbal.

The retirement of certain staff.

The promotion of certain individuals.

Staff to player favoritism.

Staff Silence.


Thanks for starting this, Moe. I don't think it'll do anything, but I maintain hope.

[Synthesis]

I still play, but it's half-assed compared to years ago.  It's weird...I can play roles better because I'm more patient, more willing to lose, more familiar with the setting, etc. but I could give two shits about emoting or thinking most of the time.

But, I don't know.  I spent a year and a half gutting it out on a reeeeeaaallly boring PC (not throwing shade at the clannies...RPTs were great), and now I'm more interested in exploring the new class system than actually participating in the game in any kind of storytelling capacity.

Other miscellaneous gripes:

1) It's hard to avoid PCs you don't want to play around, because your only options are Allanak or the wilderness.

2) The Combat Grind.

3) Not enough time to play to devote in-depth effort.  Most of the time I have like 30-45 minutes tops, off-peak, and it's spent on #2, above...because nobody enjoys dying to scrabs.

4) Difficult to maintain connections when you're a part-time, mostly off-peak player.  If you go a RL week without logging in, everyone has moved on like your PC died or they aren't really Devoted To The Cause (whatever that may be).

[Bogre]

I've been much more absent over the course of the past 1-2 years as well.

1) I'm still a busy surgical resident, though much more time now than I had as an intern/junior. Despite that, there's a lot more things like research, studying, etc that jump into filling my time. Armageddon still serves as a nice break from time to time, but I've faded into playing much more fringe, character-actor parts.
- I think a deciding factor was trying to play a merchant-house role. I've been previously been good with combat / military roles, but I was dabbling in something I had less experience with and required a good deal of time input and wasn't exactly what I was looking for. I don't think I was able to give the role what was necessary, and I felt kind of ashamed to log in. It felt insurmountable, and so I drifted away. Fortunately the time has improved / ability to jump in more often has increased.

2) The big, -big- thing that's really decreased the speed at which I jump back into game is the loss of options. One, whilst I like the mage subguilds, the loss of Elkros, Nilaz (which I had really wanted to play, but never got a chance) and Drov (which I loved) were heartbreaking. Additionally, while I would probably lean towards subguild mages, I think the loss of full elementalists and full sorcs are also disappointing. The loss of play areas and clans further decreases the ideas / avenues for characters.

3) I'm not gonna lie, the loss of karma options (Whira and Krath) after having karma for -both- of them when they were level 4, and then gaining them again just to lose the higher tier Whira/Krath subs, is pretty disappointing. And was in the setting of a karma -increase- prior to the 3 tier system. The karma delay once used, too, would probably make me take a break if I wanted to play a certain char.

4) I've never really had issues or altercations with staff. I get worried when I see disgruntled ex-players blasting the mud, but also when I see staff or current players digging out trenches in return. I tend to be a much more moderative person, and would rather see people reconciled. So while that's not really an issue for me, I do worry about players who feel broken off from the game.

[Armaddict]

My biggest hurdles are mostly personal, and revolves around getting a character established in the game, and then, after that has happened, keeping interest when I'm established and there doesn't seem to be much going on.

I think this is a really concise way of explaining a lot of back-and-forth arguments that happen about 'what's wrong with the game'.  Not all of them, but a lot of them. It's both internal and external, and messes with personal feelings and motivations.

I don't think this burned me out, but I do think it's a great thing to have said so neatly.

[Bebop]

I played from 2004 - 2013 initially - about ten years, almost.

Why I Left

My character got force stored while I was on vacation because I "wasn't playing enough."  I was in the process of getting married at the time and was super busy.  I got kinda fed up at that point and was in a place where I felt like the community was toxic.  I remember thinking, if I was playing D and D and these people were sitting around my table I wouldn't want deal with this kind of meanness.

This was back during Nyr days and there were so many smack downs happening and I just remember being at my limit.  I didn't mean to fall off but I could not bring myself to come back.  I lurked the boards here and there but lost all desire to play.

Why I Came Back

After five years I thought I would try it.  My dad died and I really need a way to just veg and pursue some escapism.  It was surprisingly easy to settle back in.  I immediately found the staff to be more hospitable and responsive.  The community seems to have taken on a healthier vibe.  (Or maybe I'm just less angsty.)

Changes I Enjoy

I like little changes like packs going on shoulders, more wear options, piercing options etc

I like that Luirs is now a place where the GMH struggle for power instead of it being Kuraci-ville, although it will still always some what be that to me

I like that the outside world feels a bit more challenging as far as critters go

I like the new guilds/classes I think it was a much needed change

I like the idea of combining the Templarate factions in Tuluk

I like certain NPCs like paymasters and coded professions that makes things a bit easier

I feel the staff culture has improved, to some degree - though there are some things I admittedly have inevitably disagreed with since my return but I do feel there is more staff interaction overall

I like the increased use of the Arena and the culture surrounding it

I like the game change updates posted by nessalin - patch notes are really nice

I like Discord

Changes I Don't Like

I don't like how noble marriage has been rendered almost useless

I don't like how now players can not ascend the ranks.  It was really cool having a red robe PC at one point.  There needs to be a sense of reward.  If nobles and templars can't really climb rank, what's the point?

I don't like that people with master crafting can't master craft, I hate it.  I see this as completely pointless.  Sitting around and crafting can already be so dull and a challenge to RP, let people's imaginations unfurl.  I want more cool items.  Let a helper or something volunteer.  I'll type uhm up.

I don't like how the cure system was changed - it feels broken and super confusing.

I don't like the frequency of the scorpions in the salt flats.  Unless you have brew it makes being out there almost completely untenable.  I think it's good to make salt grebbing more difficult but not impossible for newbies with limited resources.

I don't like magickers being taken away.  They were never my thing, and they definitely needed some nerfing - but I think they should be more readily available to people who do enjoy them.

I don't like Tuluk being closed.

And probably my biggest issue is that I don't like how hamstrung players feel.

You can't master craft even if you have master crafting unless you special app from the get go being able to do this.
You get stored if you ascend the ranks.
Certain roles are completely unavailable.
Blue Robes get stuffed into Ministries, kind of cutting them off from certain parts of their roles.

This is a game.  We should be encouraging trusted players that have proved their worth through ascension and the long lives of their PCs to lead plots.  There should be less staff involvement, not more.  This is a game, if you can't climb the ranks what is the point?  You want to feel a sense of reward for your actions.  Staff NPCs should not be the only ones occupying high level rewards.  It's completely un-intuitive to say your reward for playing a Templar, Agent or Noble long term and having many successes is to stay at your rank... or get stored.

[Brytta Léofa]

the removal of full sorcerors and nilazi are of particular concern

From my limited perspective, I'd like to see the full Nilazi tree returned as a subguild available only by special app. Treat 'em (basically) like Psionicists.

Everybody needs a tiny chance of experiencing that FUCK FUCK FFFFFUCK moment.

[Veselka]

Honestly, it's mostly the pace of the game that keeps it at arm's length for me now. I like to jump in and play, and I tend to lean towards being a 'leader' type of PC. I'm good at it when I have the time, and I probably derive the most enjoyment from the game when playing in a leader-type role. But the leader-type role also requires logging in often and checking up on people, making sure shit is going smooth, and getting involved. I just don't have the time for it anymore.

If I don't log in for a day or two, which happens often, people assume I'm dead, plots move on without me, and that's to be expected. It's the pace of the game, and my RL constraints simply don't provide enough stability to log in consistently at the same time each day, or even for long periods of time.

Once I'm out of the game for a week or two, I lose all desire to log back in and give the PC another go. I've been gone for too long, and I'm going to be in that 'playing catchup' phase for at least another week, and the cycle continues.

There's times where I have more free time and I'm able to play ArmageddonMUD, this just isn't one of them. So I don't necessarily think that veterans/players have given up on the game because something is wrong with it. I have my gripes, but they are small and few. Would I like Tuluk to be reopened? Absolutely, and actually if it were, I might have the drive to play again if briefly. But the reality is the game itself isn't the problem, I've simply gotten older, have more responsibilities, and can't keep up with the pace that ArmageddonMUD requires to really engage and derive the most enjoyment from it.

The game already had a very niche audience, and for many reasons those people have moved on to playing other games. Sometimes they return (like Bebop for instance) and other times they don't. I don't think there's much to do to entice people to return, they'll do so on their own impetus when they have the time and think of Armageddon and the spot it took up in their life. But for most, I just think they don't have the time to devote to Armageddon, so they decide it's best to lurk on the forums and stay connected in that way, but not play the game.

[Harmless]

I take lots of half year to yearlong breaks. I still enjoy the game and also agree with almost all of the positive notes Bebop mentioned. I also hate the customcraft limitations.

For example if you pick Minstrel you get master instrument making but will not be able to customcraft it. This seems nonsensical.

I think any mastercrafting subguild should be able to customcraft also.

I understand staff don't like the workload behind customcrafts but that uniqueness builds a culture that enhances everything.

I think there might be a bug with karma regeneration. Submitted a request about it last week.

I generally feel like the game is improving in stops and starts.

[Kismetic]

I putter around, sometimes, but it's like, once a week, if that.  For a good stretch, I played 3 hours a day regularly.  I feel the main reason is that my career took off, and I just lost the time.  Even when I had time, I felt mentally exhausted, and uninspired.  I also felt like Tuluk closing took some of my enjoyment away.  In particular, though, one reason I've lost interest is because it feels like you can't do anything.  For me, it was years of trying this or that, but always getting a polite 'no thanks'.  And then they moved the goalposts as far as what advanced roles you can try, or who can attempt them.  Like, after years of just a bunch of 'no', should I even try to attempt to special app a sorcerer?  I've never played one.  Never played a psion.  There's a lot of things I didn't play that were out there, and I saw as an avenue to spice up the game.  I feel those things are either gone or watered down.  There are other games out there where I can feel a small amount of accomplishment that follows my time investment, and Arm does not have that for me.  Other games may be less immersive, and they may not scratch the itch that Arm once did, but I don't feel like I'm wasting my time, either.  Of course, none of this is meant to point fingers.  I just feel the direction the game decided to take did not mesh with my desires as a player.  C'est la vie.

[boog]

Too much OOC/favoritism/nepotism on both sides, and I've allowed myself at times to be roped in. I don't talk to anyone about the game anymore.

I echo a lot of other sentiments here: there's a hard ceiling cap when it comes to achievements in game. It creates stagnation. Stagnant leaders cause underlings to burn out, too.

Some of the staff can be downright mean, even when I was staff, though I suppose from what other people've said, this has always been the case.

There is too much red tape, too much discussion that needs to be weighed in upon before any changes can occur, and for once the term 'trickle down' does apply.

Tuluk not being around sucks. Tuluk not having a solid, definitive end sucks.

I don't find Luir's multifaceted enough to support the sort of roles I like to play.

I haven't played solidly for about a year now. I have the desire to play just for a story, but I suppose I could write my own in the meantime.

[Krath]

Stealing Bebops Post because most of what she said is relevant.

Why I Left

I was banned during the Nyr Purge. Created a new account, played for another year, and when the glass ceiling for PC advancement came, I quit.

Why I Came Back

Dig and Path convinced me to come back after about 8 years?

Changes I Enjoy

I like little changes like packs going on shoulders, more wear options, piercing options etc

I like that Luirs is now a place where the GMH struggle for power instead of it being Kuraci-ville, although it will still always some what be that to me

I like that the outside world feels a bit more challenging as far as critters go

I like the new guilds/classes I think it was a much needed change

I like the idea of combining the Templarate factions in Tuluk, Lirathu OPness I both hated and feared.

I like certain NPCs like paymasters and coded professions that makes things a bit easier

I feel the staff culture has improved, to some degree - though there are some things I admittedly have inevitably disagreed with since my return but I do feel there is more staff interaction overall This this this.

I like the increased use of the Arena and the culture surrounding it

I like the game change updates posted by nessalin - patch notes are really nice

I like Discord

I love that there is a large off peak presence compared to when I left.

Changes I Don't Like

I don't like how noble marriage has been rendered almost useless

I don't like how now players can not ascend the ranks.  It was really cool having a red robe PC at one point.  There needs to be a sense of reward.  If nobles and templars can't really climb rank, what's the point? #1 Gripe here

I don't like that people with master crafting can't master craft. I hate crafting but I wholeheartedly agree with this. If your skill says master, but you cant master craft? What??

I don't like how the cure system was changed - it feels broken and super confusing. While I get the realism aspect...Holy shit, this makes me just say F-it, if I die from poison oh well.

I don't like magickers being taken away.  For me, this is almost tied with #1. Full Mages were both the scariest and most difficult, while at times the easiest to defeat. The level of fear of a full Sorc and mage was unprecedented. Why cant we have Full mages, and use the extended subguilds, the same way we have mage sub guilds. I think that for a FULL Sorc, that should be special app only, and subguild sorc should be max karma. 

I don't like Tuluk being closed. As a fellow Tuluk lover, I agree with this. Either destroy it or open it. Being a HUGE space that cannot be used or entered is pointless.

And probably my biggest issue is that I don't like how hamstrung players feel. 

You can't master craft even if you have master crafting unless you special app from the get go being able to do this.
You get stored if you ascend the ranks.
Certain roles are completely unavailable.
Blue Robes get stuffed into Ministries, kind of cutting them off from certain parts of their roles.

This is a game.  We should be encouraging trusted players that have proved their worth through ascension and the long lives of their PCs to lead plots.  There should be less staff involvement, not more.  This is a game, if you can't climb the ranks what is the point?  You want to feel a sense of reward for your actions.  Staff NPCs should not be the only ones occupying high level rewards.  It's completely un-intuitive to say your reward for playing a Templar, Agent or Noble long term and having many successes is to stay at your rank... or get stored.
[/quote]

See above in Bold and italics. Good Post Bebop.

PS> While I miss some of the old staffers, The new staffers are doing a great job.

[Is Friday]

I haven't felt really, truly invested in a PC in a long time for a variety of reasons.

1.) I think that the game has just lost its shiny feeling to me. I've played like 160+ PCs. Most of them were short lived throw-aways, though (only in the last 5 years have I slowed way down.)

2.) I cannot play a nilazi. I once stored mine because I played it too soon after a magicker character. I regret that decision.

3.) I cannot play a sorceror/psi anymore. I've been playing since 2007 and have inhabited many leadership roles. I've been given a lot of positive feedback from staff, especially the past few years. Yet here I am, unable to play a guild that imo should be open to me. I've been one of the most responsible players in the game for a long duration--often sending my PCs to die to others in situations where I could have stretched the bounds of realism to survive.

Actually--when I had 5 karma under the old system I did play a hidden sorceror who never discovered her powers--for several RL months. She was killed by her Templar boss for an unrelated reason. I had been patiently waiting for a plausible IC reason for her faith in Tektolnes to waiver and cause her to want to learn sorcery. Ah well, that's just ironic.

4.) Busy IRL. There are fewer casual roles available with a dwindling playerbase, I feel. You have far fewer opportunities to connect into plots.

5.) Staff are hiring the wrong players for some sponsored leadership positions but that's not a new problem--just a compounding jaded feeling over time. I understand that everyone has an opinion about what is "good". Oh well. Agree to disagree.

6.) There is no benefit in this game to moderate or non-violent rivalry and every time I see the flames of this being stoked it escalates to a rapid closure. It's either 0 conflict or MURDERFEST. I feel there is no in between and that bothers me.

7.) I was one of the players rejoicing at Tuluk's closure. I miss it because I'm wearing rose-colored lenses. I'd really like to play a bard or hunter up there.

8.) Removing hunters from GMH was a good idea to promote indie clans to be successful MMH hunting groups. But I don't see it being successful for anyone who has tried. There is no established indie hunting clan after, what... 5 years of MMH? The system is broken, if that's the case, imo. The MMH system does not support such low player counts. Maybe it would work if we were peak 80 players again.

With all that being said I feel as though I've had the best staff support as far as communication goes these past 3-4 years.

I've had some of the best roleplay experiences these past 3-4 years.

I just can't get into this game no matter how I try.

[Drayab]

I had a successful leadership character that had to be stored when my playtime was no longer sufficient to get things done. After a string of nobodies, I wasn't feeling it anymore, so I left for a while. Now I'm back after 1.5 years gone. On a lark, I peeked in and noticed the recent changes to the class system, and decided I'd like to give it a spin. I'm having fun so far, but as others have mentioned, it's not as easy to block off 3 hours of time as it was when we were younger. Nowdays when I log in, I tinker around with my skills for a bit, maybe bump into a person or two for some impromptu 'slice-of-life' RP, and I'm happy with that.

I do miss Tuluk. I used to play there almost exclusively. I loved the Bardic Circle. I wish there was something like that in Allanak.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Haven't played a subguild class crafter up to this point, but I am fairly certain that staff said you can custom craft if:

1) you choose the custom crafter subclass, and your class allows you to craft anything.
OR
2) you choose a subclass that can master craft, like master jeweler or master armorsmith.

Was it not implemented this way?

[LauraMars]

I've been trying to play. I have a character. But work is crazy intense at the moment and doesn't look as though it will let up soon, my personal/social life gobbles up the rest of my time...and that means some things have to be sacrificed. I have no bad feelings about Armageddon, it just can't be a priority at the moment.

I do notice that Discord seems to be changing the shape of game communities across the internet. Things like forums become less popular for players, especially newer players who are used to more rapidfire means of communication.

I am not saying a more chatroom friendly environment is a problem necessarily. It is just a new variable that must be accounted for in any kind of community building or maintenance.

I don't love it.

[sleepyhead]

Haven't played a subguild class crafter up to this point, but I am fairly certain that staff said you can custom craft if:

1) you choose the custom crafter subclass, and your class allows you to craft anything.
OR
2) you choose a subclass that can master craft, like master jeweler or master armorsmith.

Was it not implemented this way?

It is, but some things are still not clear. Does the Ministrel extended subclass get to custom craft instruments, for example? Traditionally they have been able to, but mastery in the skill no longer means anything, and there's nothing that suggests they can in the helpfile. That's something that probably needs to be clarified.

[Akariel]

I have moderated some posts from this thread regarding comments made about a fellow player that seemed to be inflammatory.

If you have an issue with staff, present or past, please submit a staff complaint.

If you have an issue with a player, present or past, please submit a player complaint.

The GDB is not the place to voice complaints about specific people or groups. The request tool is.

[Malken]

I don't like how noble marriage has been rendered almost useless

What does that even mean??

[boog]

I don't like how noble marriage has been rendered almost useless

What does that even mean??

It doesn't seem like there is any political benefit to drawing up a contract. It is mostly used for vnpc/NPC babies these days.

It doesn't do much for one's family or social status. It's really very neutered.

[LauraMars]

Everybody needs a tiny chance of experiencing that FUCK FUCK FFFFFUCK moment.

The glorious FUCK FUCK FFFFFUCK moment is a potent argument for many things, but in my experience the best ones have come from well-played characters and the potential of scary-looking code, not the scary-looking code itself.