ReOpening Tuluk: An HRPT Idea for Growth/Interest

[Delirium]

Good post Armaddict.

One minor quibble/clarification, I don't think that drawing in new players and entertaining veteran players is mutually exclusive.

[Armaddict]

Good post Armaddict.

One minor quibble/clarification, I don't think that drawing in new players and entertaining veteran players is mutually exclusive.

Errrr, yup.  Faulty wording on my part, you are correct.

[Bebop]

I don't play word games with people. I say what I mean. I don't think I hedge my words at all anywhere. I'm pretty fucking clear in my speech.

I didn't say it's okay to close Tuluk. That was a decision that predates my time here and even if I was playing then, nobody fucking asked me. Nobody asked my opinion when they gutted out all the mage classes a few weeks before I got a karma point and would have been able to play one. Nobody asked my opinion when they revamped the karma system and I lost half of the available options I had. Nobody asked my opinion on pretty much any change they've ever made here.

You're not talking about engaging players who have left. You're talking about giving specialized fun roles to ex-players over those who are actively playing the game.

That seems like the exact kind of favoritism you see blasted in all of the reviews of Armageddon out there, as well as the number one complaint which comes up repeatedly on the shadowboard.

You want special bennies? Play the fucking game.

Actually, I didn't say those things.  I formulated an idea and expressed it here.

You said you were concerned about drawing from the player base to reopen Tuluk.

I said perhaps we could give non-Karma roles like commoner #6 to people that were long term, good players that aren't currently playing.  This would both entice them to return and prevent us from splitting the current player base.  That's hardly favoritism especially considering after Tuluk re-opened literally anyone could play that same role.

Then you basically said we don't need to court veteran players that fell off because they made their choice not to invest in the game.
It's not really a choice when you enjoy a game for a certain portion of the game, and then they close that portion off after you've been playing the game, some of us a decade or more.

You're just slipping away from any solid solution and at this point adding to all of your other grievances to water down the point.  I don't find this productive.  I'm interested in creating a scenario that is good for players and the game and courting players that have fallen off that were an asset to the game.

What I'm getting again and again is just enjoy the game as it.

The game as it is in a player decline.

The changes to the game have not solved that problem.

The game as it is seems flat compared to five years ago.

A game is something I do for fun.  It's not something I have to grin and bare.  I have a unique perspective having played this game long term and taking a hiatus then coming back to see it in this state.  I've been very active over the past four months of my return.  I am very aware the state the game is in.  Despite playing, I miss Tuluk.  Some of our core base has been isolated as they too miss Tuluk.

And yes, there is social political interaction IG but it is falling flat without another city-state and it's having various negative effects for various reasons with various levels of imperceptibility.

The game as it is now is not how I left it.

I'm not sure which came first.  The chicken or the egg. 
Decisions that caused a player decline or there was a player decline and decisions got made.

I am pointing out however, that you can't argue with the numbers.  They are down and the game will die off.

So I'm brainstorming an idea that could create interest and plot and it is summarily getting shot down with umbrella arguments that things are just fine if you want it bad enough.

If the game can not make decisive decisions about it's brand, it's identity, how to retain players, and how to grow players the game will cease to be.  This was my attempt at coming at an idea with those things in mind and instead of talking about the actual topic people are bringing up mantis PCs.  Regardless, I would be super grateful if we could at least talk about the idea I actually had.

I play Overwatch.  They nerf Ana.  They realize they've gone to far, they buff her again.  Sometimes you have to be willing to consider undoing big choices or being aware if things go off balance and calibrating.  Sometimes that's harder to do in a game where a lot of what's happening has nothing to do with code or skills but it doesn't mean it isn't worth addressing.

Alas.  I think that'll be all from me on the GDB for awhile.   I tried.  This thread was just one tiny idea to enliven the game and create an overarching interest as well as dabble in a way to get new players and bring old ones back.

[Delirium]

You have a fresh viewpoint on things, but you also might not have the full picture.

Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean that you have to toss up your hands and storm off. Yeah, we get feisty, but this is meant to be a dialogue. I don't think fatalistic statements about the game dying are any more helpful than sticking our heads in the sand and pretending there's nothing wrong. There's a middle point here where we can discuss ways to improve the game.

I get that you want to improve things. I do too, we all do, really. We just have different ideas about what would improve it.

I think the best ideas for improving the game will be ideas that don't involve adding to the staff's long-term workload.

edit: notice I said "improve", not "fix". There are areas of improvement but I don't want to lose sight of the fact that this game has a lot going for it, too. Let's not fixate on negatives. There are tons of positives that Armageddon has to offer.

[Armaddict]

Erm.

I didn't find myself in disagreement at all, really.  Just clarifying what I think the reopening would have to provide to make it usable as a step forward, and specifying that other things could do it as well.

The whole bit about player types was just information on why I think it should provide those things, so that it doesn't just seem like a random gripe against your sociopolitics.

[perfecto]

Lots of excellent posts here, and I'm not going to comment on any of them.  Just going to chime in with a thought on the original idea of an HRPT idea for growth.  With all that has been not so subtly going on lately around Allanak, the salt storms, the quake, rats and whatnot, also the release notes that Ness coded a new race recently... there may already be something just beyond the horizon in the works that none of us are privy to just yet.  Something that might unite the playerbase together again in some way or another?

Just a thought 

[Bebop]

Sorry to be grumpy but my feels right now:

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[deskoft]

Bebop I want to chime in to tell you: do not feel discouraged! We're all a nice community, I think, and your ideas are great. Ideas take time to build and you have started some valuable, powerful discussions. Some of us won't agree with them, some of us will agree with them, some of us will agree with some parts of it and some will disagree with other portions of it. We need more players like you that are willing to discuss these things.

I've heard you say you were on the verge of quitting the game and I hope that's not true, but if that were the case, I'm sorry! I think I speak in the name of at least a majority of the playerbase: (a) I wish Tuluk was open, (b) I wish PK scenes were all incredible and awesome. Things would be cool. I agree with you. I think there are parts to implementing A and B that are delicate and not as easy as I once thought they might be. I'm rambling a lot. The general gist of it is: I hope we don't lose you as a player and I think that with discussion such as these we generate desirable behaviors or at least get people thinking about what they are doing (I posted a how to make things interesting post in similar fashion as you).

Things will not change overnight. As you might have seen, each player has their own idea of how things should work: we are a community. We are a passionate community. I once left because I thought there were changes that needed to be had that I didn't see any motion towards: I explored many other games and even staffed in one other. I realized several positives in Armageddon's long-tried methods that other games do not have: oriented storytelling, consistent lore, consistent theme, quality roleplay, anything-goes consequences and a real sense of achievement. It's easy to forget that we have these awesome things in our hands (you didn't say this and I'm rambling openly again). I'm decided that the quality and intensity of roleplay that we get in Armageddon is unparallel elsewhere. Definitely not in MUSHes where I feel roleplay doesn't feel as real and as immersive as here.

After returning to Armageddon, I realized that in two years many things I thought never would change changed. I've seen some incredible changes. I also realized several things I hadn't noticed before, especially in my last roles. I don't think me writing about my awesome experience with the game might convince you about anything, but I hope you can take my invitation to:

• Be the change you want to be and lead by example even if at times it feels thankless,
• Keep these discussions going because, as much as staff is the 'top-down leaders' of the game, the game relies heavily on the influence of its players and I think YOU and ANYONE here can be the change they want to be,
• Embrace Armageddon for what it is, consider the positives, embrace the positivies, but keep the negatives in mind,
• Do not feel discouraged if sometimes things don't go well or you got a negative experience: these will happen in any other game.

I've been trying to do the above, basically because I realized something: In a game with 200 unique logins per week, one player represents a big portion of the total. Imagine if you represented 1/200 in the general elections of your country. Now consider how important your influence in the game can be if the change started with you. It might seem uphill: it is not. Think about how you got hooked into Armageddon, what you define as 'cool,' what you define as 'fun,' and you might realize that behind these notions there was a more experienced player that showed you through awesome scenes what Arm was all about.

You want PK to be less predominant? Do it and inspire others to do it. Keep the discussions going. That's a huge start. You can't expect everyone to want to play like this, but you can damn well influence people to be inspired by your awesome roleplay and ability to move things forward without having to PK. I know you have gotten me thinking about it too, and I am sure others too.

It's late. What I wrote might not make sense: if it doesn't, sorry! But I wanted to tell you my thoughts and that, despite me contesting some of your points and agreeing with some of your points, I think we can all make the game we want to make by playing the stories we want to play in the way we want them to. Maybe one day you get PKed - because we are playing a permadeath game where murder can and will happen - and creating a new character might suck, but this is Armageddon and while it has its downs (and one story sometimes has to end for another in a game where a quest for TOTAL IMMERSSION is so important), but for sure it has its up.

Let me quote the Cabinet Magazine article:

"What it comes down to in the moment of danger is the simultaneous reconciliation of three perspectives. The player is at once a gamer, who must assess probabilities, marshal reflexes, master anxieties, and sift through very swiftly scrolling text; a character, who might be courageous or cowardly, empathic or coldly pragmatic; and a writer, who for roleplaying to succeed must always supersede the other two. Sometimes, this means accepting death, a demise that is more perfect than survival. Playing Armageddon MUD, like studying philosophy, is learning how to die."

"No matter how your character expires, whether of thirst in a cave or a spear wound in the arena, the server gives notice with a single sentence: “Welcome to Armageddon!” Immediately the connection is severed. Dominated by the huge ASCII head of a mantis, the main menu descends like a curtain and unceremoniously returns you to Earth.15 The moment of ejection only confirms the game’s reality. It is not the story that has ended, but only your participation in it."

Sorry for the big blob of text and I know this doesn't have any relationship to the OP, but I hope it's not an unwelcome addition to the discussion and has some vague link to the undertone (changes we have to make).

[MeTekillot]

Can we make all the player created content left on the old website available on the new one? Shitloads of examples of players crushing it with creativity wasting with nobody but those who look at the old website to appreciate.

[Heade]

Bebop, I'm with you on re-opening Tuluk. I think it would be good for the game, and since there have been MANY players who've said they'd return if Tuluk re-opens, I think the impact on RP in Nak will be minimal. People still RP up there. It just sucks because a huge portion of the game world is there, but not there.

I think, with as long as Tuluk has been closed to PCs, that a slight change in culture in Tuluk could be implemented with it's return, and that it would be good for the game. I'd like to see a single templar order, and have templars that are currently Lirathans be similar to red-robes, if they still exist at all. That way, you don't have bored PCs with plot-killing powers getting involved in commoner squabbles that they really ought to think is below them.

I also don't agree with Meridius, and think that sending out an all-call for old, experienced players with Karma who haven't played in the last 3-6 months as an incentive for them to come back and play would be perfectly fine. As someone who is playing right now, and who would love to get one of those roles, I wouldn't feel at all slighted if that were done for the overall good of the game, because that overall good is in my interest, too.

I would, however, add a caveat to the invitation that these players who haven't been playing awhile would be expected to play fairly regularly, if given those roles, at the risk of being force-stored otherwise.

[MeTekillot]

Bro tuluk combined templar orders before it closed lmao

[RogueGunslinger]

I was a major advocate for closing Tuluk. I wish I could say it had the affect I desired. But really, it didn't. I don't think opening it back up is going to solve any problems though. It just seems like more work for staff and a more spread-out player base. Thinner clans, and thinner leadership.

But I do think there's something to be done to meet people who love Tuluk half-way. What if there was a big war. Both sides become so decimated that there's no leadership left. Tuluk is completely destroyed and all Tuluki and Allanakis end up re-settling allanak. A new Quarter of Allanak is opened up in the ruins of the Gemmed Quarter; The Tuluki Quarter. The Templarate is abolished and all policing of the city is now mundane. There are no Gemmed. Magick is once again hated and feared and not accepted inside the city.

Leadership is a cold-war between three major factions: The old Nobles, struggling to regain power. The GMH's grabbing a new political foothold. The Commoners: rising up through sheer numbers, made up of Allanakis and Tulukis.

That sounds like a lot of work though.

[Brokkr]

RogueGunslinger's post highlights something I have been wondering as I have watched this thread progress.

If Tuluk came back changed, would it meet the desires/needs of those who want it back?  How changed could it be, and still meet those?  Which specific elements would need to stay the same, to appease those desires for "Tuluk"?

*I use "Tuluk" in quotes here, because there have been at least three different distinct phases to Tuluk that have been hugely different from one another.

[Lizzie]

I was a major advocate for closing Tuluk. I wish I could say it had the affect I desired. But really, it didn't. I don't think opening it back up is going to solve any problems though. It just seems like more work for staff and a more spread-out player base. Thinner clans, and thinner leadership.

But I do think there's something to be done to meet people who love Tuluk half-way. What if there was a big war. Both sides become so decimated that there's no leadership left. Tuluk is completely destroyed and all Tuluki and Allanakis end up re-settling allanak. A new Quarter of Allanak is opened up in the ruins of the Gemmed Quarter; The Tuluki Quarter. The Templarate is abolished and all policing of the city is now mundane. There are no Gemmed. Magick is once again hated and feared and not accepted inside the city.

Leadership is a cold-war between three major factions: The old Nobles, struggling to regain power. The GMH's grabbing a new political foothold. The Commoners: rising up through sheer numbers, made up of Allanakis and Tulukis.

That sounds like a lot of work though.

What you describe as the end result, is basically Tuluk, pre-Rebellion.

[Tiktak]

RogueGunslinger's post highlights something I have been wondering as I have watched this thread progress.

If Tuluk came back changed, would it meet the desires/needs of those who want it back?  How changed could it be, and still meet those?  Which specific elements would need to stay the same, to appease those desires for "Tuluk"?

*I use "Tuluk" in quotes here, because there have been at least three different distinct phases to Tuluk that have been hugely different from one another.

- The subtlety of murder and espionage, the art of it. That was glorious when done right.
- The Poet's Circle and Bards.
- The culture of Tuluk, it gave a contrast to the rough, in your fast aspects of Allanak. Giving players limited options, especially new players is not ideal. Not all players enjoyed Tuluk, that is okay. Plenty others did, myself included.
- Undertuluk.
- The differences between Chosen in Tuluk and Nobility of Allanak. I enjoyed not having to worry that the Chosen Lord or Lady that I served wasn't hiring me for sexy times. That separation in castes made it feel tangible.

There are so many things that could be done to make Tuluk available and less work for Staff.

[evilcabbage]

so let's unalienate tuluki players and alienate magicker players even more than they already are?

can't say i agree with that.

[Potaje]

Do away with cities all together and force the Greater merchant houses to form their own outposts and or nomadic tribes. And let the land go lawless with exception of those inside the tribes, forts and or treaties reformed. This will funnel more people across fewer clans making them fuller and balancing more power across those clans.

If through Rp new cities and societies are built it will be through the acts and abilities of the players.

Out with the old and in with the new.

[teacup]

so let's unalienate tuluki players and alienate magicker players even more than they already are?

can't say i agree with that.

Magick is supposed to be alienated, its illegal unless you are playing a Gemmed, duh. As a new player I would prefer to see a place where magick is actually super hated cause what I have seen in Allanak is not much hatred/fear of Gemmers. From what I have heard they're also allowed to come and go in Luirs which is weird too.

Right now the prospects of playing this game where I have no place to go after losing a character where I wont run right into characters I just played with puts me off. When I started and found out I could only play in Allanak I was butthurt and it took me months to even try playing.

[Bebop]

RogueGunslinger's post highlights something I have been wondering as I have watched this thread progress.

If Tuluk came back changed, would it meet the desires/needs of those who want it back?  How changed could it be, and still meet those?  Which specific elements would need to stay the same, to appease those desires for "Tuluk"?

*I use "Tuluk" in quotes here, because there have been at least three different distinct phases to Tuluk that have been hugely different from one another.

Great question.

Needs

-A city-state to switch to when you want to keep playing a city-based character but you don't want to stay inundated with Nak
-The Bardic Circle
-Tattoos and Ritualism
-Two city states for the GMH to be caught between
-An economy unique to Allanak with it's own special items and price differences
-A distinct, ritualistic culture
-An antagonist to Allanak
-Shadow Artist culture and tattooing
-Patronage dynamic
-A place where magick is not tolerated and looked at as a blight


Changes

-This is again where I would strongly advise forming a team of players and staff with Tuluk experience to work on this
-I think amp up the ritualism, go back to the tribal tales
-I really like that the Templarate orders were combined but continue to place a strong perspective on imagery
-Loosen how Chosen interact with commoners, let them take them to bed privately if they want
-Make Tuluk hella spooky after what it's been through, amp up that imminent threat of cultist loyalty and ghostly disappearances


Edited to add - As far as allowing Chosen to sleep with commoners just make bastards something that doesn't happen.  Even if it it happens it doesn't happen.

Whereas before Southrons were often politely tolerated make Tuluk a highly purist society.  Half elves are despised.  Southrons are interrogated and if not careful disappeared or tattooed against their way.  Give it a unique eerie harshness.

[Heade]

RogueGunslinger's post highlights something I have been wondering as I have watched this thread progress.

If Tuluk came back changed, would it meet the desires/needs of those who want it back?  How changed could it be, and still meet those?  Which specific elements would need to stay the same, to appease those desires for "Tuluk"?

*I use "Tuluk" in quotes here, because there have been at least three different distinct phases to Tuluk that have been hugely different from one another.

Great question.

Needs

-A city-state to switch to when you want to keep playing a city-based character but you don't want to stay inundated with Nak
-The Bardic Circle
-Tattoos and Ritualism
-Two city states for the GMH to be caught between
-An economy unique to Allanak with it's own special items and price differences
-A distinct, ritualistic culture
-An antagonist to Allanak
-Shadow Artist culture and tattooing
-Patronage dynamic
-A place where magick is not tolerated and looked at as a blight


Changes

-This is again where I would strongly advise forming a team of players and staff with Tuluk experience to work on this
-I think amp up the ritualism, go back to the tribal tales
-I really like that the Templarate orders were combined but continue to place a strong perspective on imagery
-Loosen how Chosen interact with commoners, let them take them to bed privately if they want
-Make Tuluk hella spooky after what it's been through, amp up that imminent threat of cultist loyalty and ghostly disappearances


Edited to add - As far as allowing Chosen to sleep with commoners just make bastards something that doesn't happen.  Even if it it happens it doesn't happen.

Whereas before Southrons were often politely tolerated make Tuluk a highly purist society.  Half elves are despised.  Southrons are interrogated and if not careful disappeared or tattooed against their way.  Give it a unique eerie harshness.

I agree with the vast majority of this. Bolded a part I think would be -VERY- much what I'd consider Tuluki culture. Not that nobles/templars NEVER sexy time commoners, but rather that, if they did, it would be kept on the low so hard, eliminating loose ends and rumor-mongors that it outwardly appeared to never happen.

The only part I disagree with is the last line, where I think it should be up to players to decide how they interact with other players, with documentation supporting that Southerners are generally despised and not trusted by Tuluki's.

The single change I would make is to make Lirathan-style templars, with their particular templar powers, NPC only. Get rid of the plot-killing PCs. They get bored and end up getting involved in really petty things that would be beneath them to engage in. I'd think Tuluk's "Lirathan-style" templars would be more focused on the security of the City State against their Southern counterpart, and the integrity of the Noble Houses and Templarate in Tuluk. Not focusing on petty squabbles between commoners or GMH's. But since those PCs are far more common, it just becomes impossibly difficult to give those types of Templars enough content NOT to get involved in the petty shit.

[Veselka]

They did get rid of those bro.

[Heade]

They did get rid of those bro.

Cool, you're the second person to say that, both calling me bro for some reason bro.

I was on a break from the game pre-Tuluk closure and haven't seen any documentation stating that happened, despite reading up on it a lot. So I don't know if it was 2 weeks before Tuluk closed, or what. Combining into 1 Templar order doesn't tell me that the powers that Lirathans previously had are no longer powers of PC templars in that 1 remaining order. To me, that just sounds like 1 order that contains templars of both varieties, who are no longer bound by the male/female thing, but may posess w/e powers they previously would have posessed. If that's incorrect, and the powers that Lirathans had were taken away from PC templars, then Great!

[Vox]

I would love it if Tuluk was revamped and reopened. My biggest issue was the lack of actual personality of the city (other than fluffy-bunny-lumberjack-easy-mode). To me it suffered from a quickly unraveling and frequently copy-paste collage of varying traits that taken separately are pretty cool but all together just made a bland mush.

A central vision behind how the city functions in the context of the greater story of the world is needed, before it just gets reopened. But I think we should definitely make it a goal to re-open.. as we should make it a goal to bring back full mages and undead

[Heade]

I would love it if Tuluk was revamped and reopened. My biggest issue was the lack of actual personality of the city (other than fluffy-bunny-lumberjack-easy-mode). To me it suffered from a quickly unraveling and frequently copy-paste collage of varying traits that taken separately are pretty cool but all together just made a bland mush.

A central vision behind how the city functions in the context of the greater story of the world is needed, before it just gets reopened. But I think we should definitely make it a goal to re-open.. as we should make it a goal to bring back full mages and undead

Not liking the outward personality that a culture projects doesn't make it fluffy-bunny-lumberjack-easy-mode. It makes a culture that is outwardly polite, with subtlety and behind the scenes plotting, so people are always "nice", smiling at you right up until you die from that dagger in your back. I think that's an amazingly cultured type of society, and it's a stark contrast to the rude, in-your-face harshness that Nak often projects. Then you have Luir's and tribals out there to mix it up. I don't see anything wrong with a place trying exceptionally hard to project just how "civilized" they are. It's an excellent way to differentiate oneself from your enemies, and justify your animousity to your people. The more different your societies, the easier it is to keep people prepared to fight against those "others".

It completely makes sense IC, as it was. Tuluki culture, as documented, was great, even if not all players represented it well. Pull the documentation off the old site and make it easier for players to find. That's really all that needs to be done to "revamp" the culture. Tuluk existed and thrived prior to moving to the new website. I feel like, once they moved to the new website and DIDN'T transfer lots of documentation, new players found themselves at a loss in a LOT of ways, not just with Tuluk. Ways where, when they started playing in Tuluk and it SEEMED like everyone was just nicer there, maybe they adopted that persona themselves, without the underlying grit, because they never got access to the Docs telling them what it was supposed to be like. I think that barrier to documentation(being on the old site) has caused no end of problems for multiple things, some of which have subsequently been removed from PC access since it has occurred. I -really-, REALLY want players to have easier access to all that old documentation again without having to discover a completely different website that isn't even directly or easily linked to by our main site.

/end rant

Sorry...I'm just REALLY frustrated at all the negative things I've seen happen over the last 8 years or so that can logically be attributed to a lack of easy player access to all that old documentation, where things worked wonderfully for many years prior to them losing easy access to said documentation.

[Bebop]

Another idea I have is that before the gates closed it looks like the Tenneshi and Winrothl went HAM. 

I like this change.  So make water more pricey in Tuluk.  None of this half price of the water in Nak cheese.  But water is more plentiful in the North?  Yah.  And the thing about Tennesh is they don't effing care.  Because they hold a monopoly.  So, yeah make it so people can still forage and greb and lumberjack but if they want water, they're going to be paying more.  But that might cause people to beg and make the streets look cluttered and dingy like Nak.  Except we can't have that so anyone that can not provide for themselves finds "rest" in Muk's Eternal light etc.  There's so many ways to play it that are just as edgy and thematic as Nak with a different angle to it.

There's so much you could do with going back to Muk being the Great Uniter.  The pride Tuluki's have after over throwing the Occupation.  Their desire for vengeance.  A purist mindset focused on a perfectionist level of breeding and art.  Bloodless deaths and ritualistic tribal sort of base underlying it all when blood is spilled, and lives taken.

I played a Driamusek bard once that I based of off Japanese geisha culture which has a lot to do with hierarchy and ritualism and it was a lot of fun.  I have so many ideas.  I wanna halp.

Have Tuluk be the eptiome (at surface level) of collectivist society.

Collectivism is a political theory associated with communism. More broadly, it is the idea that people should prioritize the good of society over the welfare of the individual.

Collectivism — so closely related to the word collection — has to do with political theories that put the group before the individual. In a collectivist system, power should be in the hands of the people as a whole, not in the hands of a few powerful folks. Collectivism is the opposite of individualism. Ideally, in a collectivist society, decisions benefit all the people. This is a difficult idea to put into practice, as seen in the attempted collectivist society of Soviet communism.

It's like ew you're wearing jozhal, that's a Southron material.  Why aren't you buying local?  Why aren't you supporting the city's economy.  Anything remotely southern should be looked down upon.  Tuluk should feel very purist and insular, obsessively and dangerously so.

Before part of the problem is it was to fluffy.  The thing about subtly is it's subtle.  I do think subtly would still be a thing, it's so integral to Tuluki culture but hike up water prices, and give some solid documentation the emphasizes the cultist mindset of integrate or be disappeared.  This is Soviet Russia, you are being watched, everyone is so nice - but you can't actually trust anyone.  That's what was cool about Tuluk, but I think with some tweaks it could be made more so.

Also important is to make it a challenge for Southrons to just "hang out" in Tuluk and enjoy the cheap silks and wood.  If you're a Southron or a half breed you should stand out like a sore thumb.  No accepting half-elves into the legion and shit anymore.  No more cheap water.  No more Southrons leeching off the system.  Going to Tuluk as a Southron should feel risky as all hell.