1st new class major issue I see.

[hyzhenhok]

am I reading this wrong? or sounds like if you are in a old class system you will never reach a level of skill as the new? that the old caps off before the new ones? Should we ditch our PC's and start fresh to kinda be able to keep up?

The new classes have higher maximum potential than their equivalent old guilds. In practice, most characters never came close to fulfilling their maximum potential and the reasons for that are still present in the new system. It's not something to worry about if you have an established, invested character going.

[Brokkr]

Oh, almost forgot.  Max offense / defense hasn't changed, although it is likely the plateau point is higher.

[Dar]

Heh. Thats so cute. Wday thinks his legacy character will live long enough to notice the difference . The sands will keep the blood fresh!

[Wday]

Heh. Thats so cute. Wday thinks his legacy character will live long enough to notice the difference . The sands will keep the blood fresh!

I hope so, cause so far just blah

[X-D]

Dar, I was on hiatus for a couple years after my wife died and when I came back the beta testing was nearly over anyway.

Oh, almost forgot.  Max offense / defense hasn't changed, although it is likely the plateau point is higher.

I still see this as problematic.

Still, somebody did point out a down side to increased starting levels to said skills I had not considered...likely that is a large balancing point.

Also, keep in mind all, the point of me starting this thread was not to bag on anything but to simply point out a potential problem early so that it can be watched and adjusted if need be. (some of the replies suggest some of you think it more in the complaint realm)

[stoicreader]

I feel gimped with my legacy ranger.

[Dar]

Am I the only one think that legacy rangers/warriors/merchants are more powerful then new guilds?

Shadies yeah. Major difference

[Dar]

I see. Sorry to hear this, X-D. I am glad you have returned

[Armaddict]

Am I the only one think that legacy rangers/warriors/merchants are more powerful then new guilds?

The new classes are more 'powerful', but the legacy classes are stronger in theme/actual defined roles.

[WarriorPoet]

There is a noticeable change. I am all for it.

Less grind, more gangster shit.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

There is a noticeable change. I am all for it.

Less grind, more gangster shit.

+1

[Akaramu]

Less grind, more gangster shit.

That does sound cool tbh.

[Armaddict]

Eh, I'm okay with it except in the context of what X-D is talking about.

If it makes people feel fine going at each other earlier, that's great.  But if we essentially just 'bump down' threats from wildlife, all we've done is bump down survival factor, which is...really quite bleh.

NPC's should remain dangerous.  Fighting alone should be risky.  Finding new friends should be just as, if not more, risky.

[ShaiHulud]

I feel gimped actually. A year in, ten plus days with a legacy, and folks are coming out of the box not just kicking my ass, but -Destroying- me.  I like my character and don't want to store or "suicide", but I just don't feel competitive martially anymore.  What to do...hrm..

[Dar]

Eh, I'm okay with it except in the context of what X-D is talking about.

If it makes people feel fine going at each other earlier, that's great.  But if we essentially just 'bump down' threats from wildlife, all we've done is bump down survival factor, which is...really quite bleh.

NPC's should remain dangerous.  Fighting alone should be risky.  Finding new friends should be just as, if not more, risky.

No wonder staff are reserved into taking account the playerbase wishes. Make up your freaking mind people.

Some people say that that playerbase has aged and no longer has time to grind up the skillz to reach the 'surviveability' phase of a character's lifetime.   Okey. Staff make it so characters straight out of chargen start with higher skills.

Now people say the game's too easy.

You cant have it both ways.

It'd be understandable if truly rare and dangerous creatures became 'safe' to hunt.  Kryl, Kiyet, horrors, spider caves, bahamets, rentarri, etc.   Did they?


Or is the issue is that the not so super dangerous, but previously dangerous 'enough' creatures became easier for 'everyone'. Except those few who know the code well enough to skill up quickly to be able to brave those coded monsters and excelt in areas, where others falter? Is this the issue?

[Armaddict]

Eh, I'm okay with it except in the context of what X-D is talking about.

If it makes people feel fine going at each other earlier, that's great.  But if we essentially just 'bump down' threats from wildlife, all we've done is bump down survival factor, which is...really quite bleh.

NPC's should remain dangerous.  Fighting alone should be risky.  Finding new friends should be just as, if not more, risky.

No wonder staff are reserved into taking account the playerbase wishes. Make up your freaking mind people.

Some people say that that playerbase has aged and no longer has time to grind up the skillz to reach the 'surviveability' phase of a character's lifetime.   Okey. Staff make it so characters straight out of chargen start with higher skills.

Now people say the game's too easy.

You cant have it both ways.

It'd be understandable if truly rare and dangerous creatures became 'safe' to hunt.  Kryl, Kiyet, horrors, spider caves, bahamets, rentarri, etc.   Did they?


Or is the issue is that the not so super dangerous, but previously dangerous 'enough' creatures became easier for 'everyone'. Except those few who know the code well enough to skill up quickly to be able to brave those coded monsters and excelt in areas, where others falter? Is this the issue?

FWIW, they chose to listen to that side, but my position on this has been consistent each and every time this particular topic has come up.  The only thing that I 'shifted' on was agreement that we could have skills branching earlier.

But yes, the latter part of that is more in keeping with what I intended to get across.  I don't think something like a scrab should be 'low risk' for an out-of-the-box character, resulting in very careful solo hunting early, or the push to clan-ship, and sometimes, the unfortunate death.  I don't really support anything that moves the death-risk further away at any point in time in the game, at least as far as combat-oriented characters.

[MeTekillot]

I feel gimped actually. A year in, ten plus days with a legacy, and folks are coming out of the box not just kicking my ass, but -Destroying- me.  I like my character and don't want to store or "suicide", but I just don't feel competitive martially anymore.  What to do...hrm..

[MeTekillot]

Your character is obsolete. They will be replaced. Everyone will. Armageddon isn't fair. There's always someone tougher. Not everyone who deserves to win and puts in the work will win.

[ShaiHulud]

It was a dry joke, sorry to explain.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I am glad these changes have been made. A fighter right out of the box -should- be able to kill raptors. Fighting is what they do. They should be able to protect their charges as most likely they will become guards or mercs. I am certain there will still be challenges in fighting PVE and it seems to me that the stronger fighters, lacking in utilities, are going to have a hard time of surviving in others ways, which I think is the intent. If what I'm saying is vague, I like what has been done. Please don't take it back.

[tapas]

I guess some people liked grinding for 100+ hours before they can get anywhere?

My question is why they wouldn't just play an mmo if they liked that sort of thing.

[Brokkr]

Or, you know, literally every single class other than Heavy Combat.

[Armaddict]

I guess some people liked grinding for 100+ hours before they can get anywhere?

My question is why they wouldn't just play an mmo if they liked that sort of thing.

Congratulations, you've reduced it terribly like hundreds of posts before you.

It's more about the inclusion of danger from all sides, a constant challenge, a fully character-eating world.  That...100+ hours?  Before you can get anywhere?  Holy hyperbolic statement batman.  Get real.

Or, you know, literally every single class other than Heavy Combat.

Fair enough, if that's the grand design that was come up with after two years of idea-mulling and playtesting.  But as with the rest of the changes...meh.

[hyzhenhok]

It's more about the inclusion of danger from all sides, a constant challenge, a fully character-eating world.  That...100+ hours?  Before you can get anywhere?  Holy hyperbolic statement batman.  Get real.

100 hours is only 4 days played. Taking that long for a warrior to reliably solo scrabs and raptors sounds about right to me for a city-based character that isn't constantly going out to skill up.

And for the thousandth time, there was never anything challenging or dangerous about these NPCs. As soon as you had a smidge of understanding the game, surviving and skilling up to the point where you can handle the NPCs the new heavy combat classes can now beat out of the gate was trivial. It was nothing but a test of time and patience, and a much longer delay to basic competence than any of the other classes had to deal with. Actually dangerous things are still just as dangerous.

[tapas]

Whoah. Hostile. This wasn't an attack.

I think the issue has more to do with how we want to perceive the game world rather than the practicality of playing a game in such a world.

Sure we like the idea of a gritty, hard environment where only the toughest and most cunning survive.

Except in game, this translates to scrabs reeling you to death, deathfall rooms and a revolving door of characters until you get the right combination of stats, playtime and ooc know-how to get somewhere.

And of course don't forget that 100 hours is actually a fuckton of playtime for any game except armaggeddon. Which is why I brought out the mmo thing.