What You Liked About Tuluk

[Heade]

I like another city over the silt sea. Lets make that a real thing!

I could get behind the idea of making a city OTHER than Tuluk, too. I don't know if this is exactly how I'd go with it, but just having some real alternative to Nak would be a welcome change. I think a major culture shift in Tuluk is the most realistic option, though. The game area is already built, so it would require the least work by staff.

[Malken]

They're not going to build you a new city. 

[Heade]

You know, that's one thing I really liked about accursed lands..they actually had code implemented to allow for building of stuff in wild zones of the game, so you could build a cabin in the woods or something. I think that would be a great addition to Arm.

[Cind]

I believe that at the very end Tuluk was changed to have some more grit and less smiling, but I don't think people remember what is essentially its last two weeks. Was a bit late to do much but bite the bullet and watch the gates close.

Having only one noble house and the militia open in both cities and keep both cities open would solve it, I think. Only noble Houses can really call their bluffs against the militia, from the little I've seen at least. The merchant houses are at the militia's mercy in the end, because they are not technically part of the power structure as they comprise partially of foreigners and do business with both sides.

It'd be bare-bones, but we'd have enemies again. (I don't really know what to say about the GMHs, keep them open so crafters can have options? Although something tells me that's not really the way to go; perhaps just having one open would suffice, change which one's open every few years.) The enemy city would loom beyond the horizon the way it should, and if you worked hard enough, were a jackass, or were a nice person not doing anything you'd also have enemies again in the city proper. Remember, Houses and the militia are just warring elf tribes without the ragged clothes and the beautiful faces.

[Aruven]

Opening tuluk spikes the player base a bit. Fite me if this is untrue, but if its broadcast its real. Not that I have a particular need to see it spiked, I just remember when it was average to have like 60 - 70 folks on because always a portion of those loved the north and would play there.

Taking Tuluk out was essentially a George R.R Martin move in the end. Create a world with lore, conflicts, cultures, then cave into the HBO studios for the instant gratification and michael bay explosions and action -- never finish the actual books because its a little harder to figure out how to do it. My suspicion is some of the writers and visionary folks that could really craft the story left; both staff and player side, and its not really possible to get the same caliber of continuation (Not because they CAN'T, but simply they don't have any desire to do so), so they closed it among other things. I could dig up my logs with staff where months out it was clear they were over the shit and it was all mostly operation clean up to get it closed.

At any rate, I spent some time trying to find the Armageddon reborn BS. They had a cool idea about how cities would work in a thread and I couldn't find it.

[Boogerbear]

I never understood the gender outcry of two divided orders. I thought it was unique, and their was a great story arc for tension, culture, and competition.

Everyone that played their was fine with potentially nerf'ing the one order type thing with the proclaimed "plot ruining powers."

I was tuluki fan o #1 for a long time, but the winds shifted and the ship sailed south, as did all the staff. Id say about a third of the players I know left the game at the time and a good deal havent come back. I dont know anything for sure, especially regarding staff decisions, but im fairly confident it will not ever be a thing again outside of an hrpt or extended plotline.

I like another city over the silt sea. Lets make that a real thing!

Even if 70 players were regularly logging in during the week, it is still a lot of work to support two sets of great merchant houses, two sets of templars, two sets of noble houses... and all of the minions those PCs require.  Different sets of players for other clans, too, like city elf/Bard's Circle.  That there's a lotta roles to fill.

after all that, you have to set new staff members to those individual groups, too.

it's neat to think about a way to open Tuluk for trade/travel only, while not allowing anyone to play actual PCs based there, but I have no idea about the IC events leading to Tuluk's closure... so, I won't speculate.

At the end of the day, there is still Morin's.  In a way, it mirrors what Tuluk was like when I started playing:  when Freil's Rest was an enterable village, when there were no clans available in the North except Kadius, the Rebellion, very infrequent southern nobles/templars (like a Borsail who found a hidden tunnel, facepalm).  I mean, Morin's is self-sustaining, and the game has basically come full circle by it acting as the new Freil's Rest.

There are solid reasons for why Tuluk has closed twice, and it's unfortunate that players left solely because it closed.  Maybe they had never played the game before Tuluk was rebuilt? At any rate, 1/3 of the playerbase leaving just because of Tuluk's closure doesn't add up to me.  Over the past 5 RL years, lots of players have left or were banned for reasons completely unrelated to IC events or Tuluk's closure.

[number13]

Tuluk closing didn't cause the player base to shrink. Tuluk was closed *because* the player base shrunk.

[Heade]

Tuluk closing didn't cause the player base to shrink. Tuluk was closed *because* the player base shrunk.

There's a very real possibility of a negative feedback loop there, as well. Playerbase shrinks>Tuluk is Closed>Playerbase further shrinks.

[Veselka]

I think more accurately, Staff's ability to oversee both areas of the world shrunk. Keeping two GMH branches open, overseeing two Templar orders, and generally 'two player bases' was not sustainable for them considering Staff burnout.

At least from what I gathered in the announcement from Staff at the time, it was something that was a slow-burn happening for quite a while. Tuluk when it was closed was probably the most populous/happening that it had been since 2006. But this was trying to address a systemic issue for Staff, not necessarily because the player base was shrinking. They were trying to consolidate the player base, but this in effect consolidates the Staff and their realms of influence.

Four Staffers that would have been assigned to Tuluk are instead assigned to GMH, Southern Staff, and Indies, which in theory would increase their ability to oversee those areas, and also allow for wiggle room when a Staffer goes AWOL or has to suddenly take a leave of absence. There were times when Tuluk was open where there would be two Storytellers and one Admin active -- If one of those Storytellers went AWOL or had to take a leave of absence, you had one Storyteller, and possibly one Admin overseeing an entire area of the game. The same was true of Indies, definitely.

So, I always saw it as a way for Staff to operate more efficiently, regardless of player interest in the area or the current population, or of a 'shrinking player base'. That wasn't a reason that was cited as far as I remember.

[Heade]

That sort of goes into the whole negative feedback loop thing, though. Since staff are drawn from the playerbase, a larger choice of potential staff members results from more players, with the opposite also being true. So, losing players by making the available game smaller also loses potential staffers who could have staffed those areas.

[razorback]

I liked Tuluk because, simply, it wasn't Allanak. I've only had the pleasure of playing there twice, unfortunately, both in Kurac and the Byn, but there was always just a different feel to it. While I understand both a city/states in a land of death and despair, it felt a little less so in Tuluk. Again, that may also be my limited play time there coming through as well. But I mean, you can 'feel' it in Allanak, like death is just standing over your shoulder at all times.

I'm for another city maybe, a smaller one, not quite a city/state, but maybe a peg or two below? A fully tribal city, maybe. But that's just me tossing something out there.

[Nao]

I liked Tuluk because, simply, it wasn't Allanak. I've only had the pleasure of playing there twice, unfortunately, both in Kurac and the Byn, but there was always just a different feel to it. While I understand both a city/states in a land of death and despair, it felt a little less so in Tuluk. Again, that may also be my limited play time there coming through as well. But I mean, you can 'feel' it in Allanak, like death is just standing over your shoulder at all times.

I'm for another city maybe, a smaller one, not quite a city/state, but maybe a peg or two below? A fully tribal city, maybe. But that's just me tossing something out there.

We have Morin's and Luirs. How would that city be different from those two?

[Lizzie]

I liked Tuluk primarily because it gave Allanak a world-affecting "cause." Why is Allanak ruled by Tektolnes? Why does it have patrolling soldiers? Why is it an oppressive culture? Why doesn't everyone mutiny and head north? BECAUSE THEY ARE TAUGHT TO BELIEVE TULUK IS WORSE.

That is the entire point of Allanak. It is Tuluk's adversary. Without Tuluk, there's really no reason for Allanak to exist. And vice versa. They are protagonist and antagonist to each other.

Virtually, this is still true. But it's difficult to play it, because there are no Tuluk citizens who are actually living in, and from, Tuluk anymore.

We can come up with new adversaries, or use existing "other places" to create new adversaries. But they'll never really pack the same punch as Tuluk vs. Allanak because they are both city-states, and everything else is either an outpost, a wasteland, a cavern, tunnels, village. Small potatoes. Laughable compared to the might of a city-state.

[evilcabbage]

didn't allanak get formed first?

people do riot - that's a mutiny. it gets put down pretty hard.

remember that mutiny where that dwarf guy, bane rustydagger, tried to rebel against allanak? all went well until people learned why large scale full on mutinies don't happen, or last long.

a dragon burninated them.



what did i like about tuluk? the clothes. that's pretty much it.

[razorback]

I liked Tuluk because, simply, it wasn't Allanak. I've only had the pleasure of playing there twice, unfortunately, both in Kurac and the Byn, but there was always just a different feel to it. While I understand both a city/states in a land of death and despair, it felt a little less so in Tuluk. Again, that may also be my limited play time there coming through as well. But I mean, you can 'feel' it in Allanak, like death is just standing over your shoulder at all times.

I'm for another city maybe, a smaller one, not quite a city/state, but maybe a peg or two below? A fully tribal city, maybe. But that's just me tossing something out there.

We have Morin's and Luirs. How would that city be different from those two?

Never played in Morin's (come to think of it...there's ALOT of places I haven't tried, I need to get out more), but Luir's never felt like a 'city' to me...even while I was playing a Kuraci, it seemed more like a fort. But again, that is my own personal perspective.

[Erythil]

I like another city over the silt sea. Lets make that a real thing!

I could get behind the idea of making a city OTHER than Tuluk, too. I don't know if this is exactly how I'd go with it, but just having some real alternative to Nak would be a welcome change. I think a major culture shift in Tuluk is the most realistic option, though. The game area is already built, so it would require the least work by staff.

Even if it's just 6-10 rooms (a place to visit, buy rare shit, and leave) with the rest of the city being virtual, SOMETHING on the other side of the silt would be hugely beneficial to the game and the coolness of the world imo.

[Cind]

Yeah, I agree. Right now, there is _literally no reason_ to traverse the sea, because I don't know for myself, but people are fucking chatty and I've never heard of something close enough to easily travel to.

Build three islands--- two that are basically flat rocks with some moderate grebbing potential and a place to set up your tent, one of which has a cave, and a third island with something of value, all strategically placed to give people choices on where they think they should go. An easy island that people who can't go near Allanak can go to for certain greb, an island for witches with a cave on it and a hard island with rewards.

Do remember that skimmers disappear when the game crashes, in case this stuff, you know, actually exists.

[Cabooze]

Yeah, I agree. Right now, there is _literally no reason_ to traverse the sea, because I don't know for myself, but people are fucking chatty and I've never heard of something close enough to easily travel to.

Build three islands--- two that are basically flat rocks with some moderate grebbing potential and a place to set up your tent, one of which has a cave, and a third island with something of value, all strategically placed to give people choices on where they think they should go. An easy island that people who can't go near Allanak can go to for certain greb, an island for witches with a cave on it and a hard island with rewards.

Do remember that skimmers disappear when the game crashes, in case this stuff, you know, actually exists.

Usually when a mount/something super important to your current situation disappears from a crash/restart, you can wish up and often times staff are very on point with reimbursement without needing to send in a request (still gotta send in a request if you have an excess of items that also went missing). But now I wonder what happens if there is a crash, when you're on a skimmer, in the middle of the silt.... Do you get back into the game without the skimmer, and immediately sink to your death? That would give me skimming ptsd.




But in response to the main topic of this thread, my most favorite parts about tuluk was the false sense of security and safety and friendliness. In a city, where skillful assassinations, thievery and burglaries are in fact legal, as long you're not caught?.. That's an extra niche I really want to see back in the game in certain parts of the world. It's only a crime if you're bad at what you do.

[Cind]

I was a legal pickpocket for a day (yep) and was specifically told that its only a crime if I'm caught, by a templar.

Yes, let's please have that again, somewhere.

[MeTekillot]

Allanak has 'only a crime if you get caught by a Templar who doesn't like you'. It's in the quickstart that it doesn't matter if you did it, it's whether someone says you're guilty or not.

We could ritualize/officiate thieving by giving elves an organization.

[ShaLeah]

I was a legal pickpocket for a day (yep) and was specifically told that its only a crime if I'm caught, by a templar.

Yes, let's please have that again, somewhere.

It's called everywhere!

[Dresan]

I miss partisanship to nobles/templars.
I miss the ability to be indie, while still being able to be deeply involved in plots/politics (partisanship, levies)
I miss the bards and plays
I miss public opinion mattering more in Tuluk.
I miss being able to fuck up in one city and run away to another lively city.

That said I don't miss Lirathans at all, and would rather just see Tuluk closed rather than bring them (or the more watered down version that came after them) back in the game in any playable form. 

[Dar]

So many people are remembering tuluk through rose covered glasses, its very cute

Tuluk was indeed awesome for about 2 months before closure. When staff siced Rathustra and a bunch of other awesome storytellers on it and they made the city bustle with activity. Bustle, but not perpetuate. The moment staff attention would spread out to normalcy again, tuluk once again would become lukewarm.

Sorry guys. But I dont think we have the playernase for tuluk. Just not enough people. And if it gets open again without being reinvented in a major way, then the losses we took when it closed would be in vain. 

[Dresan]

To be honest, as someone who loved Tuluk, I wouldn't mind having the place disappear completely, in exchange for apartments at Morins.

Morins is a wonderfully written place and  it is probably just my imagination but I can almost feel how much effort was put in to try to stuff tuluk into that much smaller space. Unfortunately, it is really just an amazing hangout, a great place to work and visit, but not really a place staff is encouraging people to live unlike with Luirs for example.

This is understandable with the effort being put in Allanak and Luirs.  I think maybe in the future there is potential for Morins to grow beautifully. I don't see nobles or templars working there perhaps, but a legionnaire sergeant and small Calvary to patrol the area would fit easily assuming if people began crowding the place.

I would love to see some private booths at the tavern allowing more private conversation and interactions(lol). However,  I know that even this small addition would probably make people play and try to live there more. And while we might have some players returning to 'rebuild' a new tuluk, more likely the numbers will come from people currently playing in other places of the game right now.

If player numbers do return even a bit closer to what it used to be, I think it would be cooler to build up Morins rather than just open Tuluk.

[Delirium]

Agreed. I can say that last I checked (a year and change ago) Morin's was deliberately not being supported. I am hopeful that eventually that will change as it is a neat village with a lot of storytelling promise.