snarkiness

[650Booger]

because our release note thread is being derailed, and that aint right.

the way I see it, we're all volunteers here.  there is no manager to complain too at this burger king.  we're more like a bunch of folks sitting around a table playing DND, smoking bowls and drinking beers.  think of staff like your buddy who is the DM.  Yeah, they're in charge, but they're just bros like us.  if you expect professionalism, you are in the wrong venue.

just my two sid.

[Malken]

Who cares.

[650Booger]

Who cares.

eggs zactly!

[TheGoose]

git gud, scrub

[chrisdcoulombe]

I'm pretty happy with the current staff.  I don't want a rigid work boss or someone that seems unapproachable. I will take some playful witty snark over high level professionalism especially in this setting.

[WanderingOoze]

Nerds

[Grapes]

I'm pretty happy with the current staff.  I don't want a rigid work boss or someone that seems unapproachable. I will take some playful witty snark over high level professionalism especially in this setting.

This. The flame war originated because of a few failures of tone to be conveyed through text, nothing major, and the two parties involved in the original exchange clarified things with eachother rather shortly afterwards. Why it continued is beyond my ability to fathom. Every friend I've ever had has been down for some witty banter heavily laced with snark, self-deprecation, and general sillyness from all sides, so I took it as a friendly jest, one person's way of saying, "I see what you did there.", except the tone of the original post was slightly different than expected, and not in an either/or way.

If we want to be given the benefit of the doubt, we must first do it for others despite past experiences. "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

[tapas]

But sometimes it's also a boojum.

[Lizzie]

I'm pretty happy with the current staff.  I don't want a rigid work boss or someone that seems unapproachable. I will take some playful witty snark over high level professionalism especially in this setting.

This.

And Seidhr I'll see your tiny violin and raise your you a miniature piccolo.

[Kankfly]

Well... Since everything is conveyed through text, and not everyone knows each other well, sarcasm and snark doesn't promote a healthy discussion, no matter how funny you think you're being. Just saying.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Whatever Kankfly?!

[Riev]

Well... Since everything is conveyed through text, and not everyone knows each other well, sarcasm and snark doesn't promote a healthy discussion, no matter how funny you think you're being. Just saying.

I'd take it one step further and reiterate that using "Volunteerism" as a shield against dissatisfaction isn't going to win arguments either. I figured there was some snarkiness in the referenced post, and had it been from ANOTHER PLAYER I wouldn't think anything of it. However, in a serious discussion and someone trying to explain their thoughts, someone in a position of power ridiculed and reduced the thought to a snarky reaction.

We're all nerds here. Some of us volunteered to do more work, on top of the game. Unfortunately, its the stoner pizza delivery guy that just got promoted to manager, who thinks jokes and 'keeping it cool' are the best way to do business, and fuck anyone else who thinks otherwise.

#QQSaltLord

[Malken]

[Veselka]

Smug snooty elitism won't make this community or game appealing to new players, period. From players, or from Staff.

[Malken]

Smug snooty elitism won't make this community or game appealing to new players, period. From players, or from Staff.

It's always been like that and yet you are playing it.

Mudders, much like any other gamers, know that game forums are always toxic and mostly used by just a tiny percentage of the players.

It's not an excuse for Staff to be jerks but it's just the reality of gaming forums.

Do you know of any super friendly mudding forums? I doubt that the GDB counts for much when a new player decides to stick around or not. They have a lot worse barriers to go through than that.

[nauta]

So a couple things.

1. First, there are forum rules, the relevant ones being:

2. Posters should be respectful of one another. Flaming, baiting, trolling or abusing other posters in any way is forbidden. This rule extends to criticism and baiting of staff, as well as responding to such behavior with the same behavior in kind.

6. Don't use this forum to bash other MUDs, private individuals or groups, or other posters.

7. Keep posts on-topic. Derailing a thread or posting off-topic is not allowed. Talking about moderation actions or attempting to revive moderated posts or threads is not allowed.

Does a snarky little meme constitute a bash on another player?  Does it constitute disrespect?  Who knows.  It'll be a judgment call, dependent on context among other factors.

Some forums also insist that what people post be 'substantial'.  That's vague, but it precludes those 'dogpiling' posts of "+1" and "This" and also precludes snarky little memes.  It's worth thinking about.

2. It definitely doesn't feel good when someone bullies or belittles you with a snarky remark, especially if you are new.

[Grapes]

Let's look at it like this, knives. Knives are great, we can slice bread with them, cut our thanksgiving turkey with them, prepare meals for loved ones with them, and generally use them in a productive way to increase the enjoyment of everyone involved. People have also been ruthlessly murdered or maimed with them. This last fact doesn't give me the right to tackle and subdue grandma in the kitchen every time she draws a knife.

[TheGoose]

Let's look at it like this, knives. Knives are great, we can slice bread with them, cut our thanksgiving turkey with them, prepare meals for loved ones with them, and generally use them in a productive way to increase the enjoyment of everyone involved. People have also been ruthlessly murdered or maimed with them. This last fact doesn't give me the right to tackle and subdue grandma in the kitchen every time she draws a knife.

mercy kill
charge grandma
subdue
You nick grandma's body with your hit.
You wound grandma's head with your hit.
Grandma reels from the blow.

[Kankfly]

I'd like to point out that my previous statement was not targeted to a single person, or to a specific group of people (like staff). It is intended as a blanket statement for all of us. Including me.

I have been guilty of slipping up occasionally too. I'm not saying that we should not be fun and easy going, that we should all be rigid and professional, nor am I suggesting that we should all be... whatever is the opposite of that. I'm suggesting a happy middle.

While we should keep in mind that everything is conveyed through text and things get lost in translation (ie. tone), we should also remember not to get super riled up when we see a percieved slight. It takes two hands to clap after all. Like the forum rules states, we should all be respectful of one another. We are all here because we love this game, not because we're trying to win a flame war. The GDB is short for General Discussion Board after all. And we can't have a discussion if we're all too busy arguing.

[Synthesis]

The thing that annoys me about it is the double-standards.

If -I- posted something like #tinyviolins, I'd probably get YET ANOTHER 3-day ban.

Nowadays, I get hit with 3 day bans even when I'm not even trying to be snarky or be  confrontational.  It's almost absurd, but nobody on staff is going to admit they were wrong, so...like...it's almost comical at this point.  I'm just coming off a 3-day ban where I was called an asshole (by staff) and the staffer dealing with the complaint I submitted about it was basically like "I can't even be bothered to figure out why you were banned, but it's only 3 days, so  just deal with it."

And I've never been on the staff-hatin' bandwagon, or on the receiving end of any sort of staff ire in-game (as far as I know, anyway).  It's just that lately (within the last year or so), there have been some really brand-new delicate jimmies that seem to get rustled with remarkable ease on the GDB.

I mean...I suppose if you're trying to make the GDB a nicer place or whatever--fine.  But y'know...if you aren't going to be consistent about it...it starts to look an awful lot like favoritism.

[seidhr]

Synthesis -

You get banned for breaking the rules which are stickied at the top of the Staff Announcements forum.  For example, Rule 7 states:

"Keep posts on-topic. Derailing a thread or posting off-topic is not allowed. Talking about moderation actions or attempting to revive moderated posts or threads is not allowed."

...which you just did in the post you just made, where you complain about being banned.  Even then, unless it gets totally out of hand, most staff aren't going to ban you for a post like that.

You have a history of being banned because you've got a history of flaming people.  A player (not you) got banned for calling another player a "fucking nobody" earlier this week.  Before that, there have been no ban actions since July.  Not even against the bots posting ads in Russian for Viagra.  (we try to filter those accounts out ahead of time)

There is no double-standard.

Yeah maybe you're on a shorter leash because you have a history.  That's how life works.  If you get busted for stealing once, the judge might give you the minimum sentence.  If you get busted a second time, probably not.  If you get busted a third time, the judge isn't going to believe your side of the story even if you really didn't do it.  Little Red Riding Hood and all that.

I was the one who told you I couldn't be bothered to go dig through reams of logs to justify (or not) you getting banned because I think you're perfectly capable of surviving 3 days without the GDB and I've seen you break the rules with my own two eyes more than once. 

Nobody on staff wants to play GDB-cop - trust me.  I've got lots of things I'd rather do.  I've got lots of things I'd rather do than justify why we make people who want to post here be nice.  Yet here I am.  Writing words.  If you just want to read the board and politely interact with others on the GDB, you'll be fine.  It's common sense stuff.

We don't normally make nice, polite, professional posts like this one, explaining ourselves and why bans happen to you because it's kind of a pain - I worked for 9 hours today (at my job, you know... the one that pays me) and just got home - haven't eaten dinner yet.  I haven't done any of the actual staff work on my plate that would benefit the game, the reason this board even exists.  I haven't talked to my wife.  I haven't done any of these things because I've spent the last 15 minutes writing this post, and it's probably fruitless because you invariably don't agree and are going to write something inflammatory and probably get banned again.

Or you could turn the corner and realize, "You know what, maybe Seidhr's right and I kinda was a jerk and should just take my lump and soldier on."

This is your explanation.  I'm not gonna waste more time debating it.  Don't like it?  Don't post.

[seidhr]

I'm so out of it that I used the wrong nursery rhyme in above post - though perhaps Little Red Riding Hood also works.  Sub in "Boy Who Cried Wolf" for original intent.

Edit: Third time's the charm, need to brush up on my fables!

[Grapes]

While I won't disagree that Synthesis is an asshole, I mean, he totally is... he does have a valid viewpoint. I'm not sure this was the best place to bring it up in, but it seems he felt it was. I, too, have had issues with staff, I wouldn't bring it up except the whole "third time's the charm" thing. There's an old saying, a man never steps into the same river twice. Netiher the river, nor the man are the same at any given point.

[Malken]

I worked for 9 hours today (at my job, you know... the one that pays me) and just got home - haven't eaten dinner yet.  I haven't done any of the actual staff work on my plate that would benefit the game, the reason this board even exists.  I haven't talked to my wife.  I haven't done any of these things because I've spent the last 15 minutes writing this post, and it's probably fruitless because you invariably don't agree and are going to write something inflammatory and probably get banned again.

C'mon dude, you fell right into it!

[TheGoose]

Hey, Booger








I think you're a sweetheart, and that this is a nice thread.

[Synthesis]

Well, you're all free to review my post history and try and figure out where I allegedly was being an asshole, because the post wasn't moderated.

Not talking about moderation actions is an absurd rule.  People have back-and-forths about whether a thread being locked was or wasn't warranted all the time.  Again, the threat of being banned again simply looks like favoritism.  I'm not trying to be inflammatory about it, it's a simple fact.  Name one other person who has been threatened publicly with a ban because they "talked about a moderation action."

I have what...9,000 posts on this board, and prior to the last couple of years, I think I was only banned once for posting a semi-exploit relating to pickpocketing.  In the last couple of years, it's been I dunno...4 or 5 times, and maybe ONCE it was me legitimately flaming someone in a politics thread (where many people were flaming each other with gusto, I might add).  I haven't suddenly developed some bizarre personality disorder.  The staff moderating the GDB have changed, though.

And y'know, someone LITERALLY JUST GOT AWAY with calling me an asshole (rule #2 or #6), and nothing's been done about it.  The staff member who claims there's no double-standard literally just ridiculed someone in another post.  So...I mean...are y'all going to moderate the GDB, or just moderate me because I'm pointing out your inconsistencies and it makes you uneasy?

I also feel like I should clarify something:  I don't have a problem with snarkiness.  What I have a problem with is being punished for things that other people clearly are getting away with, regardless of whatever the purported reason is.

[Vex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLqPfAylF4

[Grapes]

Let us lynch all the non-believers.

Also, I agree with Vex.

[Riev]

I worked for 9 hours today (at my job, you know... the one that pays me) and just got home - haven't eaten dinner yet.  I haven't done any of the actual staff work on my plate that would benefit the game, the reason this board even exists.  I haven't talked to my wife.  I haven't done any of these things because I've spent the last 15 minutes writing this post, and it's probably fruitless because you invariably don't agree and are going to write something inflammatory and probably get banned again.

C'mon dude, you fell right into it!

Not letting this get pagerolled.

[650Booger]

Hey, Booger








I think you're a sweetheart, and that this is a nice thread.

[Akariel]

I will lock this thread too if it devolves into direct insults against other players. If you have a complaint against another player, the correct route to complain about it is in a player complaint. Staff take those complaints very seriously and will look into them and take action where needed. Please do not insult other players.

[evilcabbage]

if you want to end up like that skull, piss akariel off. you will be devoured by the swarm of rats.


anyways, he's a definition of snarky:

(of a person, words, or a mood) sharply critical; cutting; snide.
"the kid who makes snarky remarks in class"


now here's a definition of jest:

a thing said or done for amusement; a joke.
"there are jests about administrative gaffes"



you tell me if what seidhr said was snarky, or just him jesting with people because he likes to feel like a normal person too.

we can't all feel like cabbages, but normal people probably want to.

it's okay seidhr. you can be a cabbage too.

[650Booger]

woah, random, I used to work at Zynga, I think that picture was from our Mafia Wars game.