Open Allanak's Gates at Night

[Cind]

The reason for them closing, I think, was because of some gith invasions a long time ago, probably before I started playing--- the 'nakis just didn't want to deal with gith bands at night.

These days, though? Its nothing but a hindrance. Since when does the templarate care about petty crimes done to unimportant people in the nighttime? It would make a bynner's breaking the rules a lot easier. Other people, too. That goody-two-shoes Kadian goes out--- good girl by day, bad girl by night. Hard to do that when the gates are closed EVERY NIGHT.

Had a couple more benefits in mind that I can't remember right now.

[ShaLeah]

Against this.

I can't remember the gates EVER being open at night. Have they ever been? I wanna say no to this.  Nak is supposed to be like a fortress.

Though I could see a night tariff.  500 per rider,  2k per wagon kinda thing.

[Riev]

I'm more comfortable with a "rent" system that lets individuals through the gates at a cost.

The Gates to Nak aren't close JUST because of gith, there are other nasties that they'd rather deal with in the light of day. I do agree its a hindrance, which is why a pittance of paying 100 coins to 'bribe' the soldiers to let you through would be pretty IC.

[Armaddict]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,51291.0.html

Another discussion on the topic of night-time hindrances to players.

I'm still firmly in the camp of keeping gates closed at night, though also open to ideas of content -surrounding- that condition.

[Brytta Léofa]

> knock gates
You knock on the gates.

[postern.js] [INFO] no more than two visible entities outside gate
[postern.js] [INFO] no soldiers/templars outside gate
[postern.js] [INFO] ok to take bribe
Someone opens the postern door from the other side.

> look east
The gates are closed.
Through the postern door you see a torchlit guard room.
Several human soldiers of Tektolnes are standing here.

> east
You enter the postern gate.
A Torchlit Guard Room [West South]
A bunch of guards are standing around here, hoping to
provide you with an exemplary customer service experience.
A hard-eyed, jade-adorned soldier closes the door behind you.
A hard-eyed, jade-adorned soldier locks the door.
A hard-eyed, jade-adorned soldier tells you, in sirihish,
  "drop pack"

[WarriorPoet]

Hit up a pc soldier or templar for after hours access.

[Riev]

Hit up a pc soldier or templar for after hours access.

Great idea, in a game that doesn't require you to have similar playtimes with these PCs, know their names, and have them be of sufficient rank to let you in. I'd support it, if we had the population.

A scripted event for this wouldn't be terrible, and if you KNOW someone in the Arm that can let you in, maybe they can do it for cheaper than the guards who don't give a fuck who you are, you're interrupting their game.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Armaddict]

I'd be okay with the capacity to bribe your way in, as long as that bears in mind that sometimes seemingly harmless requests can result in catastrophe.

As in all things relating to 'manipulation' of corruption, they don't always go the way you see them going.  This would be subject to the same uncertainty/risk assessment.

[valeria]

Nah. It's enough that you can log out at the gate these days.

[Delirium]

Change the gate closures from dusk to late at night.

[Grapes]

I understand from a playability standpoint that adjusting close hours would alleviate a little stress, that said...

I'd much rather them function as they currently do compared to Tuluk's old gate policy.

I'm not sure this is an either/or thing here, either. Also, what Reiv said about knowing PCs with particular playtimes, not to mention how long it can take to get from one side of town to the other on the inside. Some kind of other option or just free-for-all leeway would be preferable. If people take advantage of that to lure mega-fauna to the gates then they should likely ICly find themselves facing down a stern, angry Templar.

Myself, I've never had more than a couple issues with this, which were easily mitigated by putting the time of day in my prompt and not being late. That's, a half hour however.

[BadSkeelz]

Hit up a pc soldier or templar for after hours access.

Great idea, in a game that doesn't require you to have similar playtimes with these PCs, know their names, and have them be of sufficient rank to let you in. I'd support it, if we had the population.

A scripted event for this wouldn't be terrible, and if you KNOW someone in the Arm that can let you in, maybe they can do it for cheaper than the guards who don't give a fuck who you are, you're interrupting their game.

If the scripted event only worked when there were less than, say, 15 players online, maybe.

Otherwise you're putting something in that will take away from RP opportunities for the majority of the playerbase just to cater to a few offpeakers who are stuck outside for 30 minutes. Because players of all times will resort to the scripted event over PC interaction, even when they know soldier PCs. It's less risk and effort.

Change the gate closures from dusk to late at night.

This is good.

[Cind]

Paying to leave/enter at night sounds good. What about a smaller or no fee for House employees of sufficient rank?

I'm thinking people who aren't being paid yet (i.e. aren't trusted members of the House yet) would be subject to the same fees as everyone else.

Soldiers/Templars would be free. What do you think?

[Riev]

Soldiers/Templars would be free. What do you think?

Soldiers/Templars do not need it to be free. That is why there is a discussion about KNOWING one who can assist you.

Hit up a pc soldier or templar for after hours access.

Great idea, in a game that doesn't require you to have similar playtimes with these PCs, know their names, and have them be of sufficient rank to let you in. I'd support it, if we had the population.

A scripted event for this wouldn't be terrible, and if you KNOW someone in the Arm that can let you in, maybe they can do it for cheaper than the guards who don't give a fuck who you are, you're interrupting their game.

If the scripted event only worked when there were less than, say, 15 players online, maybe.

Otherwise you're putting something in that will take away from RP opportunities for the majority of the playerbase just to cater to a few offpeakers who are stuck outside for 30 minutes. Because players of all times will resort to the scripted event over PC

I understand you're being facetious, but the script would need to know one of those 15 players logged in was Arm of the Dragon, and not AFK.

Offpeakers stuck outside for 30 minutes is a rare issue at best, but a serious one.

What if the 'bribe' to get in was automatically reported to PCs, like the Jail code? Or written in a LogBook for PC Templars to see who is continuously trying to circumvent gate closure/curfew?

[evilcabbage]

when on an important mission and you hit the gates at dusk...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690

[nauta]

1. Have gates close at night, not dusk.

2. Allow the T'zai Byn Sergeants (and those following them) to open the gates (at a cost perhaps) just like AoD leadership/templars can.

[BadSkeelz]

I was not being facetious, Riev. Automation and scripts are the death of interaction and roleplay.

[Veselka]

I don't see a valid reason to open the gates at night. There's the ability to quit outside of gates now, and the world outside should be dangerous/present dangers to people who don't make it on time. I'd almost wish it was like Pitch Black outside, and the Water Vampires come out to suck your water.

[Vex]

Otherwise you're putting something in that will take away from RP opportunities for the majority of the playerbase just to cater to a few offpeakers who are stuck outside for 30 minutes. Because players of all times will resort to the scripted event over PC interaction, even when they know soldier PCs. It's less risk and effort.

Who are the MAJORITY of the ENTIRE playerbase, that will, somehow, be missing out on RP by a convenient gate script? There are, at best, one or two semi-active Templars, at any given time, and two or three AoD soldiers, whose upper ranks are often just as spotty as their bosses.

FYI we have more than ten players.

[Armaddict]

Mistiming travel and overextending hunting trips for <insert fun reason> should be counterbalanced by the 'urgency' of getting to the gates.

The argument that it's inconvenient and not-fun has never worked for me in any of the discussions of any role-playing game with high standards.

Scripts can be nice when they provide content, but 'convenience' and 'make it easier' scripts and changes have made this game continually less and less interesting.  Thus why I want there to be risks involved with doing so.

I don't care if you don't know soldier pc's.  You probably should.  I don't care if you don't know templars.  I think you should.  If you are hesitant to ask the PC's that -are- around (and consistently, from what I've seen) and you know of, then you should probably be hesitant about asking joe schmoe soldier directly at the gates as well.

Edited:  That's not to say that scripting is bad, or everything needs to be a shithole for players.  But whenever the sole argument for a change is 'I don't enjoy that', I tend to take the stance that if you think things need to be enjoyable or be momentously content driven (i.e. TELL ME HOW THIS INCONVENIENCE BENEFITS ANYONE), then you're looking at a brand of rpg that is easily found elsewhere.  Armageddon's 'niche', the reason it, as a text based game, has any market value whatsoever, is because it is centric on a persistent and mostly-sensible game world that doesn't give a shit about your character.  Character-inconvenience often ties in with player-inconvenience.

[Vex]

The argument that it's inconvenient and not-fun has never worked for me in any of the discussions of any role-playing game with high standards.

[Armaddict]

Not remotely close to contextually correct in quoting, but sure.  Cool memes.

But you can't have a desolate, hardship-ridden world that doesn't in some way inconvenience the player at times without losing hardcore-rpg status and becoming rpg-lite, and thus entering a game design platform with a lot better alternatives than Arm.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Brokkr]

Allanak doesn't really have a sally port.  If you are thinking of a bribe getting you entrance to a castle in the movies....that is probably through the sally port, rather than anyone taking the time and effort to open the big gates, nevermind the risk.

[evilcabbage]

daaaaaaaaaamn brokkr.

that's actually some nice info right there!

no sally port. that means no entry!

[Armaddict]

OR

Make a character that grows in prestige and confidence of parties that matter, and lobby IC for changes to the Arm of the Dragon's routines through IC channels.

Rather than just make a suggestion for change with the sole argument of player convenience when this has already been altered to help with the cases of OOC urgency.

If getting stuck outside the gates instills 'I'm bored' versus 'Oh shit, I'm in a dangerous and vulnerable position now', I'd say our wilderness is too tame and our attention to the importance of built in mechanics of the game is lackluster.  Timing things for the gates closing is a basic part of the outdoors lifestyle in the south.

[Riev]

Not to be overly combative, but "do it IC" is a piss-poor way of saying "I know this idea will never fly, so try to do it ICly where you can be shutdown there, instead of here".

Its not to lampoon staff or the game, but doing something IC went from "probably going to be a lot of work" to "only if staff give half a care to even pursue it to begin with".

I don't have a horse in either camp particularly, but being locked out of social RP for 30minutes is about similar to Jail time. You made a poor decision, the winds blew you off course, etc etc. Either camp out in the Shadow of His Wall or find someone to let you in. There's no "easy out" of jail either.

[The Lonely Hunter]

If you think that you are important enough for the guards to take the security risk and effort, way a PC templar or soldier (or wish up). If you aren't as important as you think, expect an appropriate response.

With that said, I would like to see a script that closes the gates during a bad storm as well. When visibility is low keeping the gates open is a security risk.

[Miradus]

I like the fact that the gates shut at night. Makes for meaningful roleplay on BOTH sides of the gate.

[Harmless]

Nah. It's enough that you can log out at the gate these days.

[ShaLeah]

[Armaddict]

Not to be overly combative, but "do it IC" is a piss-poor way of saying "I know this idea will never fly, so try to do it ICly where you can be shutdown there, instead of here".

...I actually thought the idea -would- fly if pursued IC versus as an inconvenience factor, but okay.

[Jihelu]

Push your idea with the proper funding to a City Ministry based Templar, maybe even trade but I doubt you could spin it as a 'Think of all the trade that could happen if the gates were open at night'!

Fund the hell out of the templar, bitch till they try to get staff to do something.
Either get results or staff tell the Templar to shove it.

I imagine that's how it would go. Maybe with some politics here and there as well. Get some noble houses to back it, a merchant house or two. Bada bing, bada boom.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Synthesis]

Now that there are quit-safe rooms outside the gates, the inconvenience of the gates closing at night boils down to just a few scenarios:

1)  Another player is trying to PK you

2)  An auto-tracking critter is after you

3)  You're poisoned and don't have cures on you

In other words, this isn't a matter of "convenience," it's a matter of avoiding the consequences of bad decisions.

[Feco]

Now that there are quit-safe rooms outside the gates, the inconvenience of the gates closing at night boils down to just a few scenarios:

1)  Another player is trying to PK you

2)  An auto-tracking critter is after you

3)  You're poisoned and don't have cures on you

In other words, this isn't a matter of "convenience," it's a matter of avoiding the consequences of bad decisions.

[Miradus]

A hint for a smoother forum experience ...

If you have an idea, don't post it on the GDB. Put it in a request and send it in to the people who might actually make it happen.

The GDB is where ideas go to die, usually brutally murdered by your fellow players.

[Riev]

A hint for a smoother forum experience ...

If you have an idea, don't post it on the GDB. Put it in a request and send it in to the people who might actually make it happen.

The GDB is where ideas go to die, usually brutally murdered by your fellow players.

[ShaLeah]

A hint for a smoother forum experience ...

If you have an idea, don't post it on the GDB. Put it in a request and send it in to the people who might actually make it happen.

The GDB is where ideas go to die, usually brutally murdered by your fellow players.

Murder,  corruption,  betrayal. 
#crackageddon

[Cind]

Nah, I wanted you guys to find what holes there were in it. Its fun hearing the different perspectives.

[TheGoose]

The argument that it's inconvenient and not-fun has never worked for me in any of the discussions of any role-playing game with high standards.

Yeah, the whole gate thing is one of many things that make playing in Allanak a pain in the ass compared to Luir's (which is basically perfect except for the lack of renting space) or Red Storm. It honestly makes no sense, but whatever. I'm just going to continue to tell people to start in Luir's.

Edit: Yeah, I've never needed to get into the gates because someone was trying to PK me, or I was out of cures, or whatever that last improbable situation was (can't be fucked to go back and look.)

9/10 it's, 'I logged in and have nothing to do, okay let's Way everyone we give a shit about, they aren't logged in, let's go do shi- oh, it's night, well fuck. Let's log out.'

[sleepyhead]

Red Storm's gates close too, though, although I guess it's more dangerous and thus possibly more exciting to be stuck outside of Red Storm than Allanak?

[Jihelu]

Red Storm's gates close too, though, although I guess it's more dangerous and thus possibly more exciting to be stuck outside of Red Storm than Allanak?

The constant sand storms and everything wanting to eat you is more prominent down there, I'd say.

[Armaddict]

'Don't play in Allanak.  It closes its gates at night.'

Hilarious.

[Delirium]

Pretty much 99% of the problems with the gate closures in Allanak and Red Storm would be solved by shifting it from dusk to late at night instead. It even makes IC sense, since there is still visibility - albeit poorer - until the sun fully sets.

I don't have a problem with the script in general though. I think it's thematic and makes sense for the world.

[valeria]

Or at least on the tail end of dusk instead of at the beginning.

[Cind]

What if the gates closed at a random time between the middle of late afternoon and the middle of late at night?

[Grapes]

What if the gates closed at a random time between the middle of late afternoon and the middle of late at night?

"Screw it guys. Who wants to just close the gates and go get a drink?"

[RogueGunslinger]

How about just removing the completely unplayable novision condition that comes with the combination of darkness and storms, so you would have something to do when stuck outside in the dark.

[evilcabbage]

... why would we remove -darkness- from the game?

get a torch.

don't go outside when it's windy.

this is a -harsh- desert wasteland, man.

[WanderingOoze]

Lets remove all the sand too. It's coarse and rough, and gets everywhere.

[TheGoose]

It would be nice if an actual storm was required for total vision loss. Currently, a slight wind will plunge you from full, 4-room visibility to 0 visibility. It's weird.

Edit: Sorry for derail.

Anyway, there's more than one issue with Allanak, especially for newer players, that makes Luir's more of an attractive option. The gate situation is only one of many, most of which... I mean, do I really need to spell out why Allanak isn't a great place to actually learn the world from chargen?

[Miradus]

The storm code is a completely other issue from the gate closure, and one that I find is much more valid for people to take a look at rather than the inconvenience of the gate closing.

Gates close in the south furthers the "southrons are dicks" mentality which seems to very much be part of the culture (that I like). I can imagine some tribal thinking, "They close the gates? What's wrong with them? A camp is always open. Don't they care about their tribe?" Just as I can imagine a southron going to Blackwing and thinking, "Where's the gates? What keeps the gith out of here? Are these elves friggin' crazy?"

[Hauwke]

That tiny amount of sand that stops all vision? Is actually because there is no light otherwise. When the moons are up you can see just fine, sometimes right through the night. I do think a torch should fix it though, its dumb that it doesnt.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Make torches great again.

[evilcabbage]

it takes a harsh sandstorm to drop you down from 3 room to 1 room visibility.

[TheGoose]

it takes a harsh sandstorm to drop you down from 3 room to 1 room visibility.

Not at night, which is what this derail is about. Keep up with our irrelevant grumbling, Cabbage!

In concession to the gate thing, it's annoying and a little inconvenient, but it's fine if it makes sense ICly. If it's just a cultural thing... whatever. That's fine.

Those guards should be able to shred anything that comes about, but they may (ICly) think worse things come out at night even though I know (OOCly) that that isn't actually true unless an admin spawns something.

So I guess the discussion, for me, would by why do they close the gates at night now? Originally it was due to gith, right?

Can we get a split thread to bitch about visibility at night?

[Refugee]

Trying to make it to the gates in time while annoying mobs jump in your way giving their lives to delay you just enough.  I think it's fun.

I used to go spend the night in the ranch outside town but staff once animated the mul corral worker there to convince me that was not approved.   

[Armaddict]

In concession to the gate thing, it's annoying and a little inconvenient, but it's fine if it makes sense ICly. If it's just a cultural thing... whatever. That's fine.

This is why I don't think it's a big deal to say 'Try to do this IC'.  This thread would even fit better in world discussion.

Edit:  Well.  Unless someone decides to come in and say that trying to fix IC things IC is an OOC inconvenience and should be changed.

[evilcabbage]

it takes a harsh sandstorm to drop you down from 3 room to 1 room visibility.

Not at night, which is what this derail is about. Keep up with our irrelevant grumbling, Cabbage!

In concession to the gate thing, it's annoying and a little inconvenient, but it's fine if it makes sense ICly. If it's just a cultural thing... whatever. That's fine.

Those guards should be able to shred anything that comes about, but they may (ICly) think worse things come out at night even though I know (OOCly) that that isn't actually true unless an admin spawns something.

So I guess the discussion, for me, would by why do they close the gates at night now? Originally it was due to gith, right?

Can we get a split thread to bitch about visibility at night?

i don't think the gate guards could take a mekillot down, and they don't exactly live -that- far away from the city.

[solera]

Keep them closed. 

Seriously though, I vote for closing them as darkness hits.

[Synthesis]

The argument that it's inconvenient and not-fun has never worked for me in any of the discussions of any role-playing game with high standards.

Yeah, the whole gate thing is one of many things that make playing in Allanak a pain in the ass compared to Luir's (which is basically perfect except for the lack of renting space) or Red Storm. It honestly makes no sense, but whatever. I'm just going to continue to tell people to start in Luir's.

Edit: Yeah, I've never needed to get into the gates because someone was trying to PK me, or I was out of cures, or whatever that last improbable situation was (can't be fucked to go back and look.)

9/10 it's, 'I logged in and have nothing to do, okay let's Way everyone we give a shit about, they aren't logged in, let's go do shi- oh, it's night, well fuck. Let's log out.'

You're misunderstanding my point.

In any other situation other than those 3, you can simply log out at the closed gates and wait the 30 minutes until the gates are open again.  If we allowed the gates to be open at night, it would remove a very real tactical PK danger.  Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it isn't actually a very important consideration.

[Yam]

I have gatekilled before and I'll do it again.

Both sides.

[Cind]

To respond to somebody, they weren't able to keep a mek out of the gates once. It started chasing people from the east gates all the way to the bazaar and was killing people there. There was an event around it, I believe, out of necessity.

So... that can happen, y'all.

[MeTekillot]

Make gates open and close on a random schedule.

[Hauwke]

I too have seen a rampaging mek inside the city. It didnt get so far as the bazaar though.Jesus Christ thats a long way to get lost.