Gladiators

[Renenutet]

There will be rolecalls. This role will not require karma to play. (But yeah, I think an ability to handle the role will be weighed.)

[Exen44]

Ah, alright. Well, here's hoping I won't have a character when the next role call comes around! Or at least not one I'm too invested in.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I just want to chime and and say that this looks awesome. I have played gladiators, combat slaves, and non-combat slaves and I am ecstatic to see this sort of thing come back. I hope that this leads to perhaps one day making slave roles viable again as well but even if not...jump on this, folks! Being a slave in Zalanthas isn't doom and gloom like many would have you believe. Zalanthas slaves are like commoners...but better! They know they have food, water, shelter, and perhaps even luxurious other commoners will never know.

One of my favorite all time roles was a Byn slave many years ago (who actually became a Sergeant)!

But I digress so back on track - the way that the staff are describing these gladiators sounds like tons of fun so don't miss your chance! I can't wait to interact with them on some level.

Edited to remove a link.

I am TLH and I endorse this message.

[deathkamon]

I was wondering something else about gladiators. Is every single gladiator bred in Allanak, or are some of the gladiators made as non-bred (i.e.: Captured)?

[nauta]

Contentious thought: what if we eliminate the word 'slave' across the board much as we did 'sandwich'?  Call them servi/servae or something made up but Zalanthan. 

Objection: That's not practical.  Reply: Fine. 

Objection: Why? Reply: Zalanthan slaves are quite different from slaves circa 15th-19th century and, presumably, different from other instantiations of the concept in human history.  Using the Latin 'servi/serva' would at least get us in the semantic ballpark's parking lot.  Using a made up term altogether would put is in the ballpark.

Objection: Who cares?  Reply: I dunno, liberal sensitivities. 

Objection: Don't tell me what to do! Reply: You could start by removing the term from the documentation with a search and replace, and allow players to continue using the term in the game if they like.

[ghanima]

Contentious thought: what if we eliminate the word 'slave' across the board much as we did 'sandwich'?  Call them servi/servae or something made up but Zalanthan.

You'd have to retcon the use of the word and pretend it's never been a word used before (which it has). You'd have to retcon a stretch of 11 rooms named the Road of Slaves and pretend it's never been named that (which it has). You'd have to retcon any book if it's been written on the topic of slavery (which it has) and give it whatever fancy new word that means the exact same thing. And you'd have to comb through countless documentation on Borsail if there is any use of the word slave in it (which it has in abundance).

I'm pretty much ok with the use of the word slave myself. Adding policy upon policy to police the English language doesn't make a better defined game world in my opinion. It just makes it more bogged down with overly complicated policies. If you wanted some new term (like your servi/servae example) to replace the existing one, I'd say make a push for that IC rather than imposing it through documents that appear over night.

[Exen44]

Contentious thought: what if we eliminate the word 'slave' across the board much as we did 'sandwich'?  Call them servi/servae or something made up but Zalanthan.

You'd have to retcon the use of the word and pretend it's never been a word used before (which it has). You'd have to retcon a stretch of 11 rooms named the Road of Slaves and pretend it's never been named that (which it has). You'd have to retcon any book if it's been written on the topic of slavery (which it has) and give it whatever fancy new word that means the exact same thing. And you'd have to comb through countless documentation on Borsail if there is any use of the word slave in it (which it has in abundance).

I'm pretty much ok with the use of the word slave myself. Adding policy upon policy to police the English language doesn't make a better defined game world in my opinion. It just makes it more bogged down with overly complicated policies. If you wanted some new term (like your servi/servae example) to replace the existing one, I'd say make a push for that IC rather than imposing it through documents that appear over night.

Basically this. Although it's a nice idea, implementing it would be a pain.

[ghanima]

Although it's a nice idea, implementing it would be a pain.

It's a nice idea for a game world that hasn't been released yet and is currently being designed. Zalanthas already has a history though. Let's keep it as it is and let any future changes be done via the IC world as much as possible.

[Cind]

I was wondering something else about gladiators. Is every single gladiator bred in Allanak, or are some of the gladiators made as non-bred (i.e.: Captured)?

Its considered far more feasible for breeders to have slaves bred and born to make them loyal from the start, unaware of what freedom/personhood feels like, have them be of Allanak, etc. rather than capture someone who may be immediately of combat/breeding/heavy labor age, but harbors thoughts of freedom, making it back home, vengeance, etc. Might be other reasons I'm unaware of.

Another thing about slaves in Zalanthas is they and no one else considers them to be real people. They are highly valuable possessions, best taken care of well so that they are fit to serve you. That's part of why good gladiators are so well taken care of. They put a lot of time and money into those guys, and they give a lot back in return if happy enough to keep working.

EDIT: Another thing, being a slave practically guarantees your food, water and safety, so long as you work hard and aren't extremely unlucky.

As extremely valuable possessions (there's a line graph somewhere, with healthy adult and mul humans being worth the most) most owners aren't going to mistreat their slaves, but I've seen whip scars in the game enough to think that they do get punished for some indiscretions, although I don't know how serious they'd have to be. Unwanted pregnancy maybe, I'm sure that'd get a beating.

[Feco]

I was wondering something else about gladiators. Is every single gladiator bred in Allanak, or are some of the gladiators made as non-bred (i.e.: Captured)?

Its considered far more feasible for breeders to have slaves bred and born to make them loyal from the start, unaware of what freedom/personhood feels like, have them be of Allanak, etc. rather than capture someone who may be immediately of combat/breeding/heavy labor age, but harbors thoughts of freedom, making it back home, vengeance, etc. Might be other reasons I'm unaware of.

Another thing about slaves in Zalanthas is they and no one else considers them to be real people. They are highly valuable possessions, best taken care of well so that they are fit to serve you. That's part of why good gladiators are so well taken care of. They put a lot of time and money into those guys, and they give a lot back in return if happy enough to keep working.

EDIT: Another thing, being a slave practically guarantees your food, water and safety, so long as you work hard and aren't extremely unlucky.

As extremely valuable possessions (there's a line graph somewhere, with healthy adult and mul humans being worth the most) most owners aren't going to mistreat their slaves, but I've seen whip scars in the game enough to think that they do get punished for some indiscretions, although I don't know how serious they'd have to be. Unwanted pregnancy maybe, I'm sure that'd get a beating.

I worry you're painting too rosy a picture here.  One that doesn't fit the setting, and one that certainly doesn't fit reality.

Slaves are certainly mistreated in the most disgusting of ways -- NPCs and room descriptions make this abundantly clear.

That's the part that makes the gladiators so interesting.  The "best" of them are provided something like immense wealth, but at the end of the day they're still considered someone's property --
property that's been physically and mentally abused since birth (likely).

That's not to say your average Zalanthan has it good, but let's not go thinking we play in this world where being a slave rulez and you only get beat if you deserve it.