Things that annoy me

[Anonymous]

I wish I could find such job security as the promis of food, water, bedding and storage for life. This would be a reason why you would -want- to join a noble house, not why you wouldn't want to. We should all be so lucky, even in real life. Im with the idea that we should give many more benefits to those joining noble houses as guards and aides. People seek out the nobles for work instead of the other way around. It should be a respected position that people seek out.

Right. As long as you understand that if your boss has a beef with your mother, and orders you to kill her, then you gotta do it or risk being tossed out into the desert buck naked with no water. Or worse.

I don't think this is something that commoners worry about.  I mean, even if you aren't working for a noble, if they order you to kill your Mom, you gotta do it.

And as long as you understand that if you play it right, you can make enough coins to own your own damned house instead of living on a cot with a hundred other smelly sweaty people, but choose instead the "luxury" of free food and water that you can get on your own if you made the effort.

See, but here's the thing-You are doing it without risking your life.  PCs are always considered the cream of the crop of the population of Zalanthas, but who wouldn't take a job with about 1/1000th of the risk of going out and trying to do it on your own?

And as long as you realize that if you play a guard character for a house, chances are you will never have to do any actual guarding, but instead most of your time will be spent standing at a table watching people come in and out, basically solo-emoting - or if you're really lucky, being able to eavesdrop on the conversations and become a spy, which wasn't what you thought you were signing up for, but hey - free food and a cot in the barracks..

Heh, the first two are IC issues, the latter is an OOC issue.  I don't think a privileged house guard would consider it a 'bad thing' to have to work all day at the most happening social venues watching your charge try to get his or her itch scratched.

As a player I'm with you on this one.

This isn't a beef. I LOVED being in House Oash. Had a blast, enjoyed every minute of it, no regrets. I'm just playing devil's advocate here to point out that free food/water/clothing/eq means nothing in a world where all of that can be stripped from you if you cross your eyes by mistake.

I disagree.  I don't think there is any underestimating the value of knowing that you don't have to worry about food and water.  That you can go a whole month without leaving the gates if a terrible sandstorm comes along that makes it impossible to leave the gates because you can't see a thing when you leave.  Especially in the south.

That being said....In the end, I almost never join clans.  I hate it.  Almost without fail my PCs end up getting killed or kicked out of the clan.  I hate structure in the game with a passion and will never try to get into it.  I'm not saying its a bad thing at all, its just not for me.

To get around the issues with why a PC would turn down a job, I try to give them enough uncouth, enough ignorance and enough poor hygiene to turn away a potential recruiter.

When I *have* been 'forced' by my PCs IC desire for a comfortable life into taking a job offer, I try to conduct myself in such a manner as to either get fired or feel that his life is threatened by superiors enough to warrant trying to quit.

The 'for life' terms of service blow.  As a player.

I think PCs would, almost universally, think it was a chance in a lifetime deal.

[Rindan]

The easiest way to get out of being recruited is to play a commoner.  If you dress relatively nice, talk relatively nice, and are clean that makes your special, even if you are still a commoner.  Of course people are going to want to hire you for roles where they need nicely dressed and nicely speaking people.  Simply play the average commoner and you should be able to turn any recruiter away.  Pick a bug out of your hair while they talking to you, ask which one is House Oash when they introduce themselves, and throw in vulgar comment whenever the conversation starts to become too pleasant.  

The hansome man says at your table in Sirihish,
 "So, we are looking for fine servants to serve in House Oash, and I think you could be just such a person.  We offer food and water for life, on top of our usual pay."

The grubby commoner says at your table in Sirihish, as he picks a squirming bug out of his hair with a bemused expression
 "Well tha' sounds like a pretty fuckin' nice deal!  Krath, when I was workin' shovelin' kank shit in the stables they only were payin' me 10 'sid and no food or water... not ta bash shovelin' shit, it was good 'sid, but this is really classy and shit!"

The hansome man says at your table in Sirihish, shifts, looking uncomfortable for a moment before continuing,
 "Now you will have to interview with Lord Inbreed, but you will do fine.  Once you pass your interview you will get the proper training you need on politics and such."

The grubby commoner sniffs in deeply then spit a wad of mucus off to the side of the table.

The grubby commoner says at your table in Sirihish, the smell of his rank breath wafting across the table.
 "Speakin' to a real live noble?  Well have a Mek fuck up the back side!  Shit!  Wow!  Fuckin' amazin'.  Ya know, I never though tha' I would get ta speak to a real fuckin' noble.  I mean... shit, a fuckin' noble talkin' to me!"

The grubby commoner says at your table in Sirihish, shaking his head looking completely astonished.
 "I mean shit, I once talked ta this merchant guy who said he used ta hang out in the Traders, an' that was pretty fuckin' heavy, but a real live kank fuckin' noble?  Ha!  My ol' whore of a mother is goin' to piss herself when she finds out!  She said I ain't ever goin' to do anythin' better then shovel kank shit the res' of my days, but by the fuckin' Dragon, I am goin' to talk to a noble!"

The hansome man says at your table in Sirihish, as he suddenly taps his temple,
 "Well!  I'll be!  It is Lord Inbreed himself through the Way.  It seems the position was just filled by someone else!  I am terribly sorry.  If it opens up again I will be sure to tell you though.

The hansome man gets to his feet quickly and hurries away from the grubby commoner.

[CindyLou]

Ya know Rindan, I actually tried something like that once. Not the nose picking of spit-wadding part, but the "genuinely common" commoner type. Ended up working for a noble anyway, go figure. He thought it was refreshing to have someone who didn't try to lie - or lay - their way into fame and fortune or pretend they were something they weren't just to impress someone else. He liked the brutal honesty and the sincerety he couldn't get from his other employees.

And wouldn't you know - that's what got my PC killed.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Here's my opinions (like anyone asked, right? Heh)

A noble running around after random commoners, begging them or even coercing them to join their organization is inconsiderate to other players, and doesn't make a helluva lot of sense ICly.

A non-noble recruiter working for a noble running around and harassing commoners makes perfect sense ICly, and is a lot more considerate to players.

Recruiters shouldn't pick up people that don't make sense IC. That means don't pick the flea-ridden commoner infected with crotch rot for your noble advisor. That means the 'pearly-eyed little girl' probably wouldn't be an ideal guard. That means the 'Rinth rat missing his tongue should be stabbed, not hired. However, the Byn trained half-giant who has been working for Salaar for the past three years would be ideal, and would likely be harrassed by recruiters left and right.

Players (espicially those of us who can't hit 12 hours a week) should have the option of playing a solo character, and not getting scooped (or at least permanetly scooped) into a clan. If a recruiter is being persistant, you should mail the clan IMM, and I'm sure they'll politely ask the recruiter's player to bugger off.

Your average commoner would, ICly, shit himself at the offer of a noble guard position, but others probably would not, and would easily be able to decline the offer without batting an eye. Your average half-elf, for instance, would probably be terrifed at the thought of a 'for life' contract, and would likely not accept it unless they didn't think it through.

On the topic of 'for life' contracts, they suck. Mightily. I'd like to see a few clans drop that doctorine, or at the very least, be more open to hiring skilled mercenary folk for two year, five year, or ten year contracts. Then maybe try to convince them to stay for life. But really, it feels like too many clans have life long commitment things. But whatever.

[Anonymous]

the flea-ridden commoner infected with crotch rot

You should seriously submit that NPC if you dont' make a PC with that sdesc.  Comedy.  Gold.

[My 2 sids]

Ya know Rindan, I actually tried something like that once. Not the nose picking of spit-wadding part, but the "genuinely common" commoner type. Ended up working for a noble anyway, go figure. He thought it was refreshing to have someone who didn't try to lie - or lay - their way into fame and fortune or pretend they were something they weren't just to impress someone else. He liked the brutal honesty and the sincerety he couldn't get from his other employees.

And wouldn't you know - that's what got my PC killed.

This is just one more example of how people don't like common commoners.  I too made a common commoner, the pc kept being insulted and confused for a rinther (had no accent!) like the PC was somehow "not common" or "too bad to be a commoner"!  She too was hunted down for the very fact she was common.  Out of millions of "commoners" she was somehow singled out and run down because she was a disposible commoner?  What kind of RP is that?  


The game is supposed to be FILLED with "commoners", but "common" type PCs are somehow not welcome in game.  Am I correct in saying  it is still ok to be common, right??  My fear is that if people stop making "commoners" all together the game is going to be left with nothing but nobility, commoners who -think- they are nobility, and thieves/killers.  Look at the Byn and non-human races and magickers... something is lost when we group all these sub-classes into one big disposible/terrible group.

[flurry]

I think it depends - it seems like some people have the idea that a "common commoner" would be a PC that, contrary to the docs, is willfully rude to nobles or templars.    

(Not that I'm saying people shouldn't play that way - but it wouldn't be common according to the docs)

But PCs that are dirt poor and unkempt and smelly - yay for them.   The world could use more.  I don't see why they would be hunted down, unless it were for some independent reason (e.g. stealing, pissing off the wrong people).

[zanthalandreams]

Flurry's post made me think..........

There is one thing that a Common Commoner wouldn't have, but that you see way too much in any common PC.

Pride.  

It stings when you have to suck it up because some PC really IS better than you.   There is too much liberated empowerment in commoners.   Yeah, it isn't fun to simper and grovel . . and games should be fun, right?  

The common commoner would not only hawk snot and act like they are the worthless boil on the ass of society, they would believe it.   They wouldn't get all offended.  Offended?  Is that even a concept they would understand?  Snubbed? Nah.

I can see a commoner turning down an intrusive job offer by just refusing to accept that they are worth such a position.   You got tha wrong halfbreed, mistah lord sah, I's no good at standing guard.

[CindyLou]

Offended by another commoner thinking they were superior maybe. But not by a noble, or templar. And not openly, at least, by a commoner in a high ranking position, such as a merchant house agent/advisor type person.

[Carnage]

I agree, and disagree.

I think that the majority of noble guards (VNPC-wise) were those dirty commoners who were cleaned up and polished. You don't just pop out as knowing everything on how to treat the nobility and exactly what to say. I'd like to see more time spent on 'polishing' guards than just mindless sparring.

[My 2 sids]

Exactly!  But instead those "commoners" who try to add polish to become better... are usually killed off for being a commoner and trying to fit in with the upper crust.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

zalanthandreams wrote:

Yeah, it isn't fun to simper and grovel . .

Yes it is. Try it some time. You might be suprised.

[Rindan]

I think people are confusing unrefined and rude.  The example I gave was of someone who is unrefined, but not rude.  He is certainly vulgar and disgusting, but none of that vulgarity is directed towards the noble.  He doesn't realize that picking at his bugs during a conversation is rude, that splicing a vulgar word into every sentence is bad, or that you can't do things like spit a wad of snot onto the ground during polite conversation.  If a Templar says jump, you still jump.  If nobility or templerate talk to you, you still bow.  A commoner has been taught all of these things.  They have not been taught how to talk politely.  They don't know what sort of conversation is off limits.  They are crude and disgusting, but not insulting or willful.  They know to bend a back and to say nothing disrespectful towards nobility.

On the noble's end, nobility should not act surprised when a commoner is filthy and disgusting around them.  Hell, that is the difference between nobility and a commoner.  Nobility should expect commoners to be the disgusting, crude, and unrefined people that they are.  If you are going to kill a commoner because he was picking his bugs while talking to you or was using less then polite language, then your noble is and idiot who is going to whack commoners left and right whenever they are in public around them.  It is absolutely silly to the point of being ridiculous for a noble to kill a commoner for not acting like a noble.  So long as they do the things they are taught to do, namely bow, say nothing of disrespect directed towards a House or Noble/Templar, and are sure to use either Lord/Lady Templar or Lord/Lady, then the commoner is doing nothing wrong.  A simple commoner can't be expected to do better without proper education, and most commoners never get that.

[Summer]

I'd like to see more mercenary contracts too. I've only seen it happen once, admittedly I haven't played for very long.

[John]

it isn't fun to simper and grovel . .

I disagree, the simpering and grovelling is what keeps me coming back. You don't get simpering or grovelling like this anywhere else

[creeper386]

I agree absolutely with Rindan. In fact I think I ramble about that very thing that you can't be a common commoner really at all, about every week.

It's terrible, if your a crude, unrefined person... People take every thing you say as offensive, and it's rediculous. Now a Noble Elite Guard might be offended when a common commoner talks, but he should be USED to it. It would be a norm. He wouldn't run around saying this person went out of the way to insult me and my house. It's stupid.

And it really is a problem. I personally can't play a fairly large section of what I'd like to play with the problem.

In the north it's even worse though. Can't even be slightly normal without everyone wanting to kill you.

[zanthalandreams]

John, Monkeyman, read the rest of my post.   Take the italic text in the whole context of the theme.  Ask yourself, is the point of Zan's post that groveling is good?  Why yes it is.  Does that mean Zan must think that simpering and groveling is good and fun?   Why yes it do.   Does this mean I disagree with Zan?  Why I be, no it don't.  


re: Rindan

I'm with you on this, but it has been rare for me to see a really gritty PC who could present crudeness and vulgarity without rudeness.  It is kind of the same way that people in power confuse being powerful with being an asshole.  The two don't have to go together.

[X-D]

Bah, shut em all down and open 2 closed noble houses, time for change anyway in old stuffy allanak.

[Hoodwink]

Bah, shut em all down and open 2 closed noble houses, time for change anyway in old stuffy allanak.

I wholeheartedly agree.  I think it makes more sense for lesser nobles to be open to players since they are closer to commoners, and let the upper nobles become NPCs.  Why not try something new anyway?  When was the last time something drastic happened in Arm?  The liberation of Tuluk... which was how long ago?  Merge Salarr and Kadius, I dunno.  Something.  It'd just be nice to see some big major turning point or event which drastically changes available roles/options for we players.

Especially in Allanak, where everything has been the way it has for probably thousands and thousands of years.  Wouldn't it be neat if there was a constant flux?  Or even an occasional one!  Of not even world-shattering events either, just IC events like Oash and Borsail constantly teetering on who is the uppermost house.  One week it's Oash, the next it's Borsail.

[crymerci]

In the north it's even worse though. Can't even be slightly normal without everyone wanting to kill you.

Well, as long as you're not trying to be average in clearly above-average surroundings.  Like the Sanc, for example, which is like the Traders except even nicer.  Other than that, I say make the pansies squirm.