The Magick Of Healing

[Shoka Windrunner]

Okay.  Now bear with me a second and I'll get to my point.

I couldn't say how many people actually use magick healing to deal with injuries...however...

Now magick healing can be just that...magick.  But what if there was a bit of science in this process.

Now a normal, even minor, injury can take up to two years to be COMPLETELY healed.  That means, the removal of collagen and scar tissue and your body finally goes yep, done with that.  Magick does it in like...let's say one second.  Magickal healing puts all this, 1 second and two years done.  If it's just to like the okay, it's scarred and basically healed, it's like three months of healing done.  This requires a lot of nutrients to do as well.  Your body is getting rid of all the broken and damaged bits and then building new ones.  Real fast in this magick case.  Now where do these broken, damaged and dead cells go? 


Your colon.


Now.  That would mean, you have a big enough wound, your colon is going to go, oh, there is to much here, time to get rid of some of it.  Right now.  A smaller wound, a scratch or graze might just need you to go poo, really badly.  But a big injury?  Or in Arm terms, a lot of hp being healed?  Your pooping yourself.  Curing poison would probably have the same effect.  This would also mean that for the tablets and vials and such that we have that are 'all natural.'  But lets just leave the natural stuff being natural and ignore that stuff.  Of course magickal removal of poison?  Same problem, instant pooping.

So.  Perhaps, if the gain of hp is big enough or the poison severe enough, this could cause a player to foul their britches.  An animal to leave behind a stinky pellet, or what have you.

Why in the Known would you want to have this in game? 

Simply consequence.  Instantly being brought from death's door to basically healthy by magick (which I think is still supposed to be scary and shunned) should have some sort of consequence.  Fouling your britches is a, scientifically, reasonable one.  Maybe put a little more fear in the populace.  I mean, it won't kill you, it'll save your life, but, you will have poopy going down your leg.  And so one of the most advantageous magicks is made somewhat less desirable.  Which, for healing at least, felt missing.  I mean, other than possible RP issues, which may or may not happen because you got your gut fixed by a Vivaduan, there is still a reason to think, well...maybe I don't want that. 

Now I don't expect it to stop someone from being healed to avoid death.  Not at all.  But, the RP?  The possible boon to the tailoring/armorcrafting economy to replace those poop magick fouled pants?  The good times and fun ribbing you can give Sergeant Pooppants?  A Byn suddenly being a literal shit cloak?  C'mon.  It has to count for something.

Or...more boringly.  We can leave it as, "oh, it's magick."

Now I don't mean every single one, but I think most players could RP a bit of oops, gotta poop right now in the case of a small amount of healing.  Not sure why you would ask for it though if it was small.  But a certain percentage.  Maybe...30%...or 40%...instant poop.

Has issues I know.  Lowers the value of those healing services.  But makes magick a little more interesting.  Also, be a bit hungrier and maybe, a little thirstier.   Not to much, we don't want Sarge coming back from death's door and instantly dying of dehydration and starvation.  That would make healing a bit...well.  Useless.

So.  Maybe?


P.S.  I'm glad we have vials that we can pour down the throats of the unconcious.  However I secretly always hoped they would make a bit of code that those tablets could be given rectally.  (I'm already talking about poop, might as well get this all out and done with)  Means you can strip their pants off.  And administer that life saving tablet.  But, someone's gotta do it.  And they should (for RP/fun's sake) get some smelly stuff on their hands/gloves.  This would show you just how much someone REALLY cares about whether you live or die.  Just saying.  And you wouldn't have to worry about them choking.  But...someones gotta go near Sarge's backside.


I'm going to think about how a bit of science could be used with other 'beneficial' spells.  And to keep things from having Vivaduans who always have poopy pants, or pantless ones...maybe, they are special and it doesn't work on them the same way and they don't have this problem.  Which would also work in RP to say, "Yeah, damn Vivs.  They do that pooping thing on purpose.  I'm sure they go downstairs of their temple and just laugh and laugh.  Kanking tregil lovers.  They never have that happen when they do it to themselves.  It's all a big kanking joke to them.  Cruel bastards.  And then they charge for it."

Edit: couple of typos.
Also doctoring is often a bit messy.  Why else do they tell you DON'T YOU EAT A DANG THING OR DRINK ANYTHING BUT WATER 24 HOURS BEFORE SURGERY DANG IT!  Cause you might poop on the table.  Just saying.

[BadSkeelz]

Now a normal, even minor, injury can take up to two years to be COMPLETELY healed.  That means, the removal of collagen and scar tissue and your body finally goes yep, done with that.  Magick does it in like...let's say one second.  Magickal healing puts all this, 1 second and two years done.  If it's just to like the okay, it's scarred and basically healed, it's like three months of healing done

For the moment I just want to dispute this. Magickal healing CAN be instantaneous and perfect, and certainly appears that way in our HP prompt, but there's nothing that says you have to roleplay it to that effect. I asked Staff about this once when a character of mine was taken from 100+ HP to 8 and then magicked back together. When I asked how much scarring this should incur I was told

That's pretty much up to you. Note that Vivaduan magick is not perfect, and the NPC in particular who healed [you] probably would have left a whole mess of scars on purpose. Because he enjoys that sort of thing.

According to Helpers and Staff, just how "clean" magick healing is can be dependent on the skill of the magicker or even just their individual whim. Ultimately it's in the Healer and patient's OOC hands to decide how "easy" they want it to be.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Now a normal, even minor, injury can take up to two years to be COMPLETELY healed.  That means, the removal of collagen and scar tissue and your body finally goes yep, done with that.  Magick does it in like...let's say one second.  Magickal healing puts all this, 1 second and two years done.  If it's just to like the okay, it's scarred and basically healed, it's like three months of healing done

For the moment I just want to dispute this. Magickal healing CAN be instantaneous and perfect, and certainly appears that way in our HP prompt, but there's nothing that says you have to roleplay it to that effect. I asked Staff about this once when a character of mine was taken from 100+ HP to 8 and then magicked back together. When I asked how much scarring this should incur I was told

 
That's pretty much up to you. Note that Vivaduan magick is not perfect, and the NPC in particular who healed [you] probably would have left a whole mess of scars on purpose. Because he enjoys that sort of thing.

According to Helpers and Staff, just how "clean" magick healing is can be dependent on the skill of the magicker or even just their individual whim. Ultimately it's in the Healer and patient's OOC hands to decide how "easy" they want it to be.

Oh yeah.  Totally.  Doesn't change how much work a bodies got to do to make what happened happened.  Scars, pain whatever.  Have fun with that.  Of course healing naturally with sinew stitches would have the same effect.

But you still need to poop if it happens fast.

[The Warshaper]

*insert squatty potty meme here*

[Shoka Windrunner]

Now a normal, even minor, injury can take up to two years to be COMPLETELY healed.  That means, the removal of collagen and scar tissue and your body finally goes yep, done with that.  Magick does it in like...let's say one second.  Magickal healing puts all this, 1 second and two years done.  If it's just to like the okay, it's scarred and basically healed, it's like three months of healing done

For the moment I just want to dispute this. Magickal healing CAN be instantaneous and perfect, and certainly appears that way in our HP prompt, but there's nothing that says you have to roleplay it to that effect. I asked Staff about this once when a character of mine was taken from 100+ HP to 8 and then magicked back together. When I asked how much scarring this should incur I was told

That's pretty much up to you. Note that Vivaduan magick is not perfect, and the NPC in particular who healed [you] probably would have left a whole mess of scars on purpose. Because he enjoys that sort of thing.

According to Helpers and Staff, just how "clean" magick healing is can be dependent on the skill of the magicker or even just their individual whim. Ultimately it's in the Healer and patient's OOC hands to decide how "easy" they want it to be.

Actually, I just kind of got what you mean on this.  Let me explain a bit. Apologies.

So...yeah you aren't necessarily healed to having skin as fresh as a new born babe.  That's up to you.  But your body does remove scar tissue during the healing process.  You don't just get scar tissue on your skin when someone pokes a hole in you and you heal.  It's internal too.  But it's useless in there.  So it does get removed.  The combined effect of all the clotting being removed, removal of dead cells, damaged cells, out of place cells, collagen and what scar tissue is replaced internally so that the thing does what it should and not just be a lump of useless scar tissue, is what is removed from the body. 

There is still pain from injuries, even with the best modern medicine, often long after the healing is "done" as far as your body can do or is concerned.  Scar tissue on the outside, for one, isn't that accessible to your blood so it doesn't really get cleaned up nearly as fast.  That's why this burn scar on my hand that I got when I was 6 is still around decades later.  Faint now, but still there.

So I'm not in ANY way, shape or form saying you don't get scarred or have pain afterwards.  Especially if we go with the 3 months thing.  3 months puts you about 80% healed but there is still a lot of work going on.  You shouldn't be very hindered by the injury at that point at all.  But inside, stuff is still happening.  And those surface scars?  Not technically an injury.  That's healed as far as a body is concerned.

So I'm not asking to take ANYTHING away from the RP of being scarred and pained.  Not a bit.

Just saying that, if we put a little science in there...you are going to poop all that clotting, dead cells, damaged cells, out of place cells, collagen and scar tissue that IS removed from your body, especially at that incredible speed that it happens in.  Not to mention what might already be sitting there waiting to go.

So I agree with what you are saying, but it doesn't really change what I'm saying.  If that makes sense?

[Delirium]

Or maybe the magic pulls it all out of your body instead.

I mean.. poop humor isn't really my thing, and that's what these scenes would invariably turn into.

[Miradus]

It's magic. Stop trying to use science.

[Jihelu]

It's magic. Stop trying to use science.

This

[Shoka Windrunner]

It's magic. Stop trying to use science.

Yeah I likely won't be doing that.  But thanks! 

It's more of the fact that magical isn't inherently scary that is my issue.

Though honestly I like thinking of ways to make the world more interesting and giving it some depth that exists beyond what is already there. While it's been stated by BadSkeelz that the effect is dictated by the caster and their skill.  How would you feel if the next Vivaduan cast there healing and made you poop all over yourself.

Would feel a bit like force emotes. Which is still a no no right? I can't just emote yanking your pack off and demand ooc for you to give it to me. So...really it isn't up to the caster. You get to decide how good of a job the caster did. Which is a force emote in its own way. If there is a coded effect...it becomes the risk you take. And I'd rather have interesting than some people ignoring it or some people going to far the other way.

I honestly don't see the harm in making things interesting. Making an actual reason to make magical your last resort. 

It's supposed to be scary. But only having the fact that you feel all warm and soothed when magical is used is not really that. Oh well.

[Riev]

I'm all for bringing in some realistic responses, but "feeling warm and fuzzy" is exactly what the magick does. How good it is, how the caster attempted to do it, and the target's responses, are all things that tend to be taken care of, in game.

Getting healed magickally is scary, because you don't KNOW how they do it. Does a vivaduan make water out of nowhere? Or do they suck the water out of your closest friend, to fill your skin? Did they heal your wound, or kill a nearby newborn to replace your life with its?

[Miradus]

So let me get this straight ...

You want whenever someone heals us (which is a pretty rare occurrence for me), that we immediately rush over to the nearest bush to roleplay out a bowel movement?

[Jihelu]

I've played a water mage that has healed before and have always gone with it removing all scars and injuries like it's fucking nothing. Because coolio good magic healing.

If someone wanted to emote that it didn't heal fully, good on them. I'd just go ic "Huh that's weird, oh well I tried".

I'm pretty sure the only time a person has had a scar with my characters healing involved is when they just refused healing, though. The people accepting healing are usually those who don't want to look like scarface

I think the idea of magic healing completely, within a certain time frame and within reason, helps reiterate how magick is extremely powerful and scary. Also it could be used as an argument for water magick being less 'scary' but then you learn more about it and realize it's just as scary and neeto as other magicks.

[Malifaxis]

I think this is a seriously shitty idea.

I also do not like it, and think it would add nothing to the game.

[Akaramu]

No. 

[Shoka Windrunner]

Lol.  Just...Lol.   

[bardlyone]

Is shitting yourself scary to you? Because it's not to me. It's embarassing. I'm with... everyone else who's said anything thus far. Don't think it's a great idea, not really a fan. And I doubly agree with Delirium on the why.

[Miradus]

Lol.  Just...Lol.   

I really did feel like this was a troll post. Now I get it.

[Dar]

Hrmh. You know, I wish I had known this a few of my characters before. I know too little of biology and such similar things. I was playing a character who was into the whole 'self introspective/mind over matter' healing, ie Bene Gesserit type. I would've incorporated "something" like that there.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Lol.  Just...Lol.   

I really did feel like this was a troll post. Now I get it.

It actually wasn't really a troll post.  So no.  You don't get it.   

You guys just make me laugh.

[Erythil]

Bro there are other games where you can explore weird fetishes 

[Shoka Windrunner]

Bro there are other games where you can explore weird fetishes 

What science is a weird fetish now? 

[Pretentious]

Why in the Known would you want to have this in game? 

Simply consequence.

From the gemmed help file.

Outside of public scrutiny though, some of Allanak's citizens are willing, when times are desperate enough, to seek out the gemmed for their services - real or imagined. Such liaisons, if discovered, are devastating for the transgressor's social standing and likely their health - with the "taint" of magick being thought to stain them and follow them wherever they go.

That is consequences. Not good-natured ribbing over bowel movements.

Also doctoring is often a bit messy.  Why else do they tell you DON'T YOU EAT A DANG THING OR DRINK ANYTHING BUT WATER 24 HOURS BEFORE SURGERY DANG IT!  Cause you might poop on the table.  Just saying.

Usually, it's so that you don't risk vomiting into your lungs while under general anesthesia.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Why in the Known would you want to have this in game? 

Simply consequence.

From the gemmed help file.

Outside of public scrutiny though, some of Allanak's citizens are willing, when times are desperate enough, to seek out the gemmed for their services - real or imagined. Such liaisons, if discovered, are devastating for the transgressor's social standing and likely their health - with the "taint" of magick being thought to stain them and follow them wherever they go.

That is consequences. Not good-natured ribbing over bowel movements.

Yeah.  Lot of people don't do that.  Some do.  Some don't. 

I still find it humorous that people think that isn't scary.  I mean, what's going on with your body?  You've lost control. 

And if they give a good nature ribbing to them after getting healed, per your own point, they kind of doing it wrong yeah?  According to the help file.

Coded consequence, whether it is my suggestion, which is realistic, whether you like it or not, the science adds up...anyway, coded consequence reinforces non-coded RP expectations.

[Raptor_Dan]

I think perhaps were people against this idea are going is: If we're going to have coded consequences to back these RP expectations to magick, let's not have it be something that could ultimately just be worth good-natured ribbing after the fact, but something more crippling and devasting, to remove the idea that it could ever be funny... it could happen to you. This isn't meant to forbid this shitty reaction, but rather go far beyond it. How about permanent night terrors or suddenly you give Lover's bleed to everyone you have intercourse with, but you yourself don't have it.  If we're going after a scientific explanation, I've always been a proponent of the idea that the visible magick/energy exchange that zalanthans see is due to massive radiation, and subsequent adaptations to it.

Faster than earth standard healing, powerful blasts of fire/lightning, the bald mutated humanoids, 'defiling' a patch of land or oneself, and ultimately, how mana accumulates and regenerates for elementalists, and why some spots are better. It's all the accumulation and expense of radioactive energy, manipulations of photons, and magnetic fields. Where do irradiated particles accumulate for these Zalanthans? How does magick heal the body and where does the 'excess' of dead flesh go? It becomes waste that's eliminated in the bladder, and thus, the correlation to Lover's Bleed. You start pissing blood until you die, the suckiest of quick killing ZSTD's. And maybe it could be up to the player if they shit themselves or have scars afterwards as a result of magickal healing and have more severe consequences encouraged instead?

[Shoka Windrunner]

I think perhaps were people against this idea are going is: If we're going to have coded consequences to back these RP expectations to magick, let's not have it be something that could ultimately just be worth good-natured ribbing after the fact, but something more crippling and devasting, to remove the idea that it could ever be funny... it could happen to you. This isn't meant to forbid this shitty reaction, but rather go far beyond it. How about permanent night terrors or suddenly you give Lover's bleed to everyone you have intercourse with, but you yourself don't have it.  If we're going after a scientific explanation, I've always been a proponent of the idea that the visible magick/energy exchange that zalanthans see is due to massive radiation, and subsequent adaptations to it.

Faster than earth standard healing, powerful blasts of fire/lightning, the bald mutated humanoids, 'defiling' a patch of land or oneself, and ultimately, how mana accumulates and regenerates for elementalists, and why some spots are better. It's all the accumulation and expense of radioactive energy, manipulations of photons, and magnetic fields. Where do irradiated particles accumulate for these Zalanthans? How does magick heal the body and where does the 'excess' of dead flesh go? It becomes waste that's eliminated in the bladder, and thus, the correlation to Lover's Bleed. You start pissing blood until you die, the suckiest of quick killing ZSTD's. And maybe it could be up to the player if they shit themselves or have scars afterwards as a result of magickal healing and have more severe consequences encouraged instead?

Maybe a temporary loss to stun and movement would reflect that.  Good point. 

Mostly I just ran down a thought and followed science on it.  Though if we go radiation that would make sense as well.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

No.

It's magic. If you want to play out un-intended consequences of being magicked on, no one is stopping you. Hell, most of us are probably inviting you (or should be). But what this game doesn't need is poop echos.

Also, if you pick this one thing to try and apply psuedo-science to, where's the cut off?

Should there be an echo for when that loaf of bread turns back into sand in your stomach?
Should you get hypothermia every time your body produces a giant fireball?
Should your skin crack, chafe, and fall off every time you stoneskin?
Should your particles reorganize in the wrong order giving you an arm head after you're done being invisible?

[Shoka Windrunner]

No.

It's magic. If you want to play out un-intended consequences of being magicked on, no one is stopping you. Hell, most of us are probably inviting you (or should be). But what this game doesn't need is poop echos.

Also, if you pick this one thing to try and apply psuedo-science to, where's the cut off?

Should there be an echo for when that loaf of bread turns back into sand in your stomach?
Should you get hypothermia every time your body produces a giant fireball?
Should your skin crack, chafe, and fall off every time you stoneskin?
Should your particles reorganize in the wrong order giving you an arm head after you're done being invisible?

I'll answer all of those questions.

Bread - How about an echo of a really loud stomach growl to the room and one to you saying your guts feel like they are full of rocks?

Fireball - Well I already suggested that it not affect the gicker.  That way it seems intentional to those receiving the casting.  But does this really need something worse then being set on fire?  If so, also have it give you sunstroke or something, though this one isn't necessary I don't think.  After all, warriors don't get obsidian shards stuck in the hands when they chip pieces off their sword while hitting that scrab do they?  So, if you are addressing my main idea, let's keep to that.  If you have a new one I'm all ears.

Stoneskin - For the caster?  Naw.  For the other guy?  A couple echoes, maybe open skin locations have a 'dry cracked skin' on them for people to see.  Maybe lotion becomes a thing people actually buy and have to use.   A cream or ointment if you would rather.  Yeah, that sounds great.  Yet another reason to not mess with magickers unless you have to. 

Invisible - Hmm.  Maybe something saying you look a little pale on your mdesc after you are vis for a time.  Sounds fine to me.  Another coded reason why you wouldn't want to get gicked unless it was REALLY important to you, or you are one of those people who might be ordered to be gicked. 

Detection Spell on the eyes.  Occasional hemotes firing off of how watery your eyes are.  Echoes going to you as well.

Everyone doesn't seem to like bodily functions, though there is at least one clan who has a latrine that is always being cleaned up, but I digress.  Water from a gick, maybe you appear to be sweating steam?  You don't get codedly dehydrated or hotter, just visible echoes to everyone and yourself.

Fine healing doesn't make you poop.  It seems everyone is so wrapped up in the fact that they can't possibly RP that it's disturbing and not funny if someone were to poop themselves after being healed.  Fine.  Instead it leaves blue weird tattoos on your body temporarily?  Would that be better then?  (I still hold that losing complete control of your bodily functions is scary.  Try it sometime, you'll probably agree)

Oh you want to levitate or fly?  Okay.  Maybe your movement speed or code doesn't change but now that you are done riding the wind every echo for you entering or leaving a room shows you weaving and stumbling about.  Not drunk code, not falling in the street, just echoes showing you have trouble walking now, getting your 'non-floaty land legs' back.

What's that, your poisoned?  Need it cured?  Why...why are you sweating blood?

There is a thousand ways this could be coded.  And it would put coded issues into the game to actually make it a plausible I don't know, maybe I'll die, or damn I regret doing this, or did you see Amos?  He's sweating blood, can't walk straight and won't stop crying after that Templar made him get gicked up and go in that cave.

Funny now?  Humorous ribbing?  Yes, you can still make it funny.  No problem.  Anything can be made into a joke.  Ask your neighborhood goofy half-giant (I know, not all hg's are goofy, some are, you probably know or have known one) and you'll probably get a laugh. 

Out of all the gicking that gets done in game, on other people so they can have the benefits, is there actually any RP of how terrible or scary it is actually played out.  A lot less than most of you would admit.  And a lot less than maybe there should be.  Make it scary.

It's scary.  Make it scary.

It's supposed to be scary.  But it isn't yet.  Not if you want to shrug it off and just get your gameplay on.  It's easily ignored. 

All suggestions I have, including the poop one, are temporary or immediate one and done ideas, nothing permanent.  Except the emotional scars and distrust (which should be there as that is in the helpfiles as well) of others for you after you get gicked.  You would have an actual reason to be worried Amos was going to kill you or something, because he got gicked and you saw what happened.  It's harder when nothing bad happens. 

I chose healing because it actually says you feel all warm and happy inside when it happens.  Which is easy to just go, "Hey, that ain't so bad, give me more of that."

Maybe it should be "so bad"?

[Jihelu]

"It's scary, make it scary"

Just because the idiot commoners in the game fear magic doesn't mean it has to actually give you herpies because rumors say it does.

"Maybe it should be "so bad"?"
Why?
Because people hate it lore wise-icly?

Making magic have adverse side effects for no reason goes opposed to what D&D did, what Dark Sun did (Defiling excluded), and if we pull shit from those sources theres no reason to make it all different and shit filled (literally) just for a difference.

[Shoka Windrunner]

"It's scary, make it scary"

Just because the idiot commoners in the game fear magic doesn't mean it has to actually give you herpies because rumors say it does.

"Maybe it should be "so bad"?"
Why?
Because people hate it lore wise-icly?

Making magic have adverse side effects for no reason goes opposed to what D&D did, what Dark Sun did (Defiling excluded), and if we pull shit from those sources theres no reason to make it all different and shit filled (literally) just for a difference.

Forgotten Realms, magic isn't scary.  It's normal.  It's basically low technology world with the tech replaced with magic.  However...Wild Magic?  The Time of Troubles?  Spellplague?  Second Sundering? Karsus's Folly?  All epic world affecting disasters caused by/or because of magic.

Dragonlance, magic is somewhat scary and it can have side effects, ask Raistlin.  Ask Fizban when he poofed into feathers.  (yes I know Fizban is a god, drop it)  Didn't Flint get stuck as the king of the gully dwarves after having a special axe or something? (I remember he was king but don't remember how that all happened)  Didn't Goldmoon immolate herself with the staff using magick?  That was priestly magic also.  The Cataclysm caused by the wrath of the gods dropping a fiery mountain upon the world killing thousands, taking all of their clerics away removing healing magic from the world which in return resulted in the deaths of how many that could have been saved? Dragonlance is almost Dark Sun in reverse where Wizardly magic is kind of cool and priestly magic is the stuff that starts the riots.  See Goldmoon healing someone with the staff and sparking a riot in Solace.

Dark Sun, the books show that all elements have some spells in common.  Such as healing.  Fire elementalists burn your wounds closed.  It's in the books, that one dwarf fella, can't remember his name.  What about Just Plain Pavek and him calling the Druidic Spirit of the city of Tuluk, surrounding it in a wall of protection to keep the Lion King of Tuluk from destroying his own city and instead making him turn around and slaughter the armies that attempted to make the Lion King into the new dragon in the first place?  What about (forgot his name, the slimy guy) who takes the big obsidian ball of power and tries to use psionics through it, making him turn into some mutated creature, causing immense pain?  What about the white tower where if you go anywhere near it and get harmed even a little bit you start to mutate completely?  What about Sorak and how he felt after getting all of his multiple personalities pulled out of him and into the avangion so it could continue growing to challenge the dragon?  And let's not forget the Dragon, marching the wastes, pulling his levy of life to power his own magic?  The whole world is shit because of halfling's messing with life magic?  Defilers keeping the whole world shit because they suck the life out of plants and leave a section of the world devoid of life, for what? Hundreds or years?  (I know you mentioned defilers, but when is the last time you saw ash covering the ground of a room so that all life was dead?  It's been a long while for me)

Greyhawk, I don't know about that much, but it feels a bit like Forgotten Realms just more low tech.  But here is just one example:  Liches: wizards who use magic to become undead beings of extreme power, nearly incapable of being slain whose very touch can drain your life force?

Planescape - hoo boy.  Just having the wrong bracelet on and you walk through a door and you are in the elemental plane of fire.  Let's look at Planescape:Torment.  The Nameless One, unable to die and loses his memory sometimes when he dies and wakes back up?  Morte, the talking skull that was pulled from the wall of talking skulls?  Annah a bloody half-demon?  Fall-from-Grace a Succubus?  IGNUS went around chucking fire and turned his body into a living conduit to the Elemental Plane of Fire leaving him burning, alive, possibly forever?  Vhailor the spirit inhabiting his suit of armor, undead forever as he seeks justice?  (which reminds me of Dark Sun dwarves abandoning their focus and becoming banshees in death)  The Lady Of Pain enigmatic ruler of Sigil, who has outlived and destroyed gods in her existence and metes out punishment, compassionless, with brutal indifference on all who displease her sensibilities?  (Tektolnes anyone?)

I'm trying to say that I don't think your dismissal holds any water.  Also in those worlds, all of them, including Dark Sun, there are literal gods toying with mortals, and helping them also.  That isn't so in Zalanthas.  Dark Sun has the elements, and yes they get involved, but not as much as Just Plain Pavek's druidic spirits, minor gods of individual 'biomes' of the world.  But strong enough to hold off the assault of the (arguably even more powerful than the original) Lion King of Urik in Dragon form? 

There are no spell memorizing, spell book carrying wizards.  There is no choosing a deity to worship to gain their blessing to wield divine power on Zalanthas.  When it comes to magick and curses, there are plenty of curses to be had in other areas of DnD.  It's there, in the novels and/or video games.  Here we don't even follow some of their things because in Dark Sun, elementalists are pretty cool bro.  People like them.  People use them.  People do not shun them.  So there is scary terrible frightening things in all of the DnD worlds.  People there (except Dark Sun and defilers) don't care, cause it makes their lives better, the gods are giving their blessing.  Or the normal person has realized, "What are we going to do about it, duck your head and keep moving kids!"


And finally I even dismissed the shit filled world idea.  Nobody liked it, I adjusted.  Drop it man.  I already did.

TL/DR There is plenty of scary magic stuff in the other worlds.  But Zalanthas ain't them, ain't even Dark Sun.  Don't compare ginka's and kalan's.

[Jihelu]

Fuk if you took down the shit filled world point down then pretend I didn't say it.



The only reply to that long post I have is that....
Greyhawk indeed is basically just Forgotten realms if I recall correctly.


*Shoka Windrunner wounds you for hideous amounts of damage.

I'll see how the thread goes.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Fuk if you took down the shit filled world point down then pretend I didn't say it.



The only reply to that long post I have is that....
Greyhawk indeed is basically just Forgotten realms if I recall correctly.


*Shoka Windrunner wounds you for hideous amounts of damage.

I'll see how the thread goes.

emote looks a bit embarrassed.

Sorry.  Dungeon Master for 22 years here.  I may have gotten carried away.  I didn't take it down.  But I stated above that I other ideas that could be used instead.  Sorry. 

[burble]

One way to make magic scary is to make all spell components derived from PC/non-animal corpses.
Perhaps, vivaduans prefer hearts, whirans lungs, krathis muscle, rukkians bone.

Maybe for rare parts get a perk - Mon Heal with a Templar's heart would give a permanent HP boost....
Of course, trafficking in body parts would be highly verboten in all civilized areas. Some rinthis would probably trade in such things. Anyone in the wilds caught butchering a sentient would be hunted down.
Animal parts could substitute for lower level spells so you can practice without killing.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Always wanted a nice elf skin hat.  Like I do to raiders in the game Rimworld.

Elves with human leather dusters?

Humans with elf leather boots, I mean they probably make you run faster or something right?   

[Raptor_Dan]

"Are those kid skin gloves?"

"Your kid? Yes..."