Plot raffle.

[Delirium]

To clarify, I'm not accusing staffers of favoritism. But we all know there is a chunk of the playerbase that will look at any sort of 'reward' and cry foul, regardless of how it is distributed.

And why should we care about that? If not that, it'll be something else.

I mean... yeah... in this we agree completely.

Haters gonna hate.

[solera]

I am in the camp of rewarding the present PC. There is already a reward, in this -

Additional Notes – – Do you want staff assistance with this? Do you want us to echo? To animate? Would you like us to stay away while we observe?

especially for the dangling rag-tags. (More rewards are always gratefully received.  )

[Lizzie]

I get the "playing favorites" thing, I understand what it means. I just disagree with people who think it's a negative. I think it's a positive. That's what karma's all about. It's why staff are staff. You earn your favor in Armageddon, both ICLy and OOCly. Your character has to earn favor - even the new noble has to earn the trust of his peers. Your rinth rat has to earn the privilege of coming out southside and not getting beaten up constantly in the Gaj.

You, the player, have to earn the privilege of playing characters that require more trust, and you, the player, have to earn the privilege and responsibility of joining staff.

This is no different. You, the player, have to earn the privilege of getting a little something above and beyond what you would normally get, if you hadn't done anything to earn it. If you want to call it "favoritism" then sure, it's favoritism. But don't say it like favoritism is a bad thing. This isn't the 8th grade. You should WANT some players to be favorites. They're the ones who drive the plotlines, who code the new implemented systems, who create the dungeon-crawls, who write the new rooms and mastercrafts, and who play those amazing awesome characters that make you want to some day do similar things. Can you do all those things? Yes? Well then earn your way into becoming a favorite too.

Personally I'm so-so on the concept of this plot raffle. I think it's a nice idea. But if I entered and won a custom scar/tattoo I probably wouldn't accept it. Why? Because if the staff said "Lizzie won!" then everyone who saw my character's custom scar/tattoo would know that character was mine.

I'd totally love a mastercraft item, and I guess a skill bump might be neat.

[Marauder Moe]

I got a custom "scar" once without entering a raffle.

Anyway,  this sort of behavior (players running plots and staff giving out out scars, items, and stat boosts) should be business as usual, but I guess we need a nudge.

While I'm somewhat reserved about further meta-gamification with IC perks for OOC behavior, overall this thing seems mostly harmless, as long as it doesn't become an escalating trend.

[Miradus]

I take a few days break and come back to 5 pages of this.

Nice try, Cayuga, but you forgot what I like to call Miradus Law of Internet Gaming.

"The worst part about multiplayer games is the other players."

This is cool and all and y'all should totally roll with it. But it's not going to fit every character idea of mine, and so there will be times I can participate and times I can't.

As for getting staff help with a plot, I've never, ever wished up and had someone send that I was bothering them and to leave them alone. Even when I wished up for something simple like a guard animation or "watch this, I may kill this guy". Almost always the response to wishing up has been to get a little better action going.

And is that the fault of staff? No. I place the blame solely on other players. Why?

Because I can wave thousands of sid around and emote my heart out and a room full of people will look at me like I'm an idiot cutting into their mudsex time, but let the bartender tip me a nod and say, "That sounds like a good idea" and people will scramble all over themselves for days to get involved.

[Aesuna]

I think the most important thing here is that staff are actively trying to encourage and motivate people to communicate with them to facilitate plots. This doesn't come off to me as an attempt to get players to do more work, but a way in which people who don't normally communicate with staff or who feel like they personally can't (or don't know how to) get cool things rolling in the world have an incentive to step out of their comfort zone and give it a shot.

In my opinion, it's an awesome idea. The rewards are 'cool' but also negligible and don't give anyone a game-breaking advantage. More plots could come out of it, more familiarity with player-staff communication, but most importantly this feels like an active attempt on the part of staff to let people know that hey, you have the ability to do stuff and we are willing to help.

That's super cool. Thank you guys.

[HavokBlue]

I think the most important thing here is that staff are actively trying to encourage and motivate people to communicate with them to facilitate plots. This doesn't come off to me as an attempt to get players to do more work, but a way in which people who don't normally communicate with staff or who feel like they personally can't (or don't know how to) get cool things rolling in the world have an incentive to step out of their comfort zone and give it a shot.

In my opinion, it's an awesome idea. The rewards are 'cool' but also negligible and don't give anyone a game-breaking advantage. More plots could come out of it, more familiarity with player-staff communication, but most importantly this feels like an active attempt on the part of staff to let people know that hey, you have the ability to do stuff and we are willing to help.

That's super cool. Thank you guys.

This is the optimistic half of my reaction. Well said.

[Seeker]

I think the most important thing here is that staff are actively trying to encourage and motivate people to communicate with them to facilitate plots.

My bet?  Much more positive benefit than negative from this effort.  I'm guessing this will mostly help newer and/or non-jaded players.  The more cynical, suspicious "don't you DARE put your spying nose in my plot, Staff-villians!" type will probably not get much benefit out of it. 

Pet Peeve:  I don't like even more focus on playing the Request Tool game instead of on playing the actual Mud.

[Miradus]

I'm not normally an optimist, but yeah, I think there's more good that can come from this than harm.

I'm not much of a plotter, really, unless I'm in some sort of structure where I have something to work towards.

Indie Amos, basically, I can never think of any plots that are really big. I need to work on that. But House Amos usually has no problem getting involved in some shenanigans.

[wizturbo]

I'm not excited about more 'Request Tool' stuff either, but honestly this format is significantly easier than trying to report this stuff via traditional character reports.  And most importantly, this doesn't have to be about seeking permission to do something, it can purely notifying staff about what you're already going to do. 

I filed one of these yesterday, it clocked in at 11 sentences in total.  It took me about five minutes.  If I have a dozen plots a year, that'll be about one hour of extra Request Tool time a year.   That's a pretty reasonable trade-off considering the numerous benefits of doing this, both personally and for the collective good of the game. 

I'll admit, I wish we had some tool other than the Request Tool for this though.  It's functional, but it feels too much like a customer service or IT support tool.  I think everyone on earth hates using customer service or IT support tools, it triggers bad memories. 

[bardlyone]

So... I didn't invent a new plot for this, but put in an existing one. I'm dubious of how it'll turn out, but, frankly, it isn't something that's likely to end well anyhow. If nothing else, it gives some idea of what I'm doing when it seems like I'm not actually doing much at a glance. Maybe it'll win, that'd be nice. Though my writing was a hell of a lot more long winded than 11 sentences and 5 minutes. >.>

[650Booger]

just curious, should this be open to leadership characters?  they should definitely already be doing this anyway.

[Armaddict]

I don't see anything particularly -wrong- with this, but it does weird me out a little, solely because I thought this was already the purpose of character reports; you let staff know what you're up to, what you need done on staff end (if anything), and essentially keep them in the loop.  I don't find the rewards particularly out of place or game breaking, but having to incentivize the behavior that I'm pretty sure we're all exhibiting anyway (by that, I mean facilitating personal plots) seems strange.

All in all, with what may be incomplete understanding or exposure, I don't see it as too much difference from business as usual aside from another approval board.  If you guys want more approval-based stuff to do rather than just hopping in on events in place, I suppose that's your own prerogative.

All in all it's not super amazing or overcontrolling or anything to get wary over.  Like I said.  Just weird, and more work for yourselves where I thought this was already in place minus the 'formal' review of it.

[Jherlen]

I dislike the "raffle" bit of this, actually a great deal. Creating plots - great! Reporting plots - also great! Fantastic even! But... plots should be the number one reason you play Armageddon. They should be their own incentive.

I've had two stints on staff, both long enough ago that I feel okay talking about them. Some of the most fun I had was being able to find and nudge along the non-sponsored, non-leader, non-superturbowizard PCs who were making neat everyday plots, talking about their virtual NPC friends, or living lies that the character desperately wanted no one to discover while the player desperately did. Sometimes these characters sent in reports; other times I just happened to be monitoring them. In all cases they were roleplaying and creating plots because they loved it. That's what made Armageddon so special to me.

I just... come on, guys, you go over to TMS or TMC and you see "Roleplay-enforced" MUDs talking about "RP Weekend - show up at the shrine to roleplay and get double experience points!" If you're like me, you turn right back around and leave, because you won't find RP or plots of any depth in those games. I get what staff are trying to go for, I think, but like several in this thread have said, it feels like something that shouldn't need to be incentivized any more than it already has been via the karma system, account notes, and so on.

PS: When I heard about this I tried to show up in Teamspeak so I could talk to peeps about it, but nobody was there. Team, y u no speak??

[Riev]

I've had two stints on staff, both long enough ago that I feel okay talking about them. Some of the most fun I had was being able to find and nudge along the non-sponsored, non-leader, non-superturbowizard PCs who were making neat everyday plots, talking about their virtual NPC friends, or living lies that the character desperately wanted no one to discover while the player desperately did. Sometimes these characters sent in reports; other times I just happened to be monitoring them. In all cases they were roleplaying and creating plots because they loved it. That's what made Armageddon so special to me.

The plots in Arm are part and partial to why many of us come back, but you'd be naive to think that they're the only reason people play, and that everyone both knows how to start plots, and runs them all the time.

It is very daunting as a non-writer to enter this world of people who are professional writers or otherwise professional DMs and such in their own rights. Not all of us know how to run plots, or prefer to jump into the plots that others make, or just prefer the plots that being a twinky assassin tool for the Templarate affords us.

SHOULD we need incentive to try harder? No. But thats a philosophical debate. We don't have many veteran players because of real life and aging, and MUDs are simply not as popular a realm for young blood to discover. To a point, staff has to cater to the young audience as well.

I suppose my point is: This was your favorite part of being on staff. You believe that plots should be their own incentive. You liked helping out the small plots so much you were staff twice. However, your experience may vary, and the game evolves. Everyone must roleplay their character; not everyone must create, initiate, involve, and mastermind plots. I simply can't accept that.

[Akaramu]

It is very daunting as a non-writer to enter this world of people who are professional writers or otherwise professional DMs and such in their own rights. Not all of us know how to run plots, or prefer to jump into the plots that others make, or just prefer the plots that being a twinky assassin tool for the Templarate affords us.

It's daunting for some of us writers and DMs too. I don't have trouble starting plots, but they tend to not go anywhere because a key PC dies (or my PC, pick one), or because my playtimes never match with that other person I'd absolutely have to find in order to move things along. Or my PC gets distracted by other, more immediately important or interesting matters. OR staff tells me 'you can't do that'. OR I get bored of the frustrating parts involved in making the plot happen and chase after my own fun instead. It's always one of these.

Plotting as a DM is easy because you have complete control over all the elements you need to make the plot happen - except the players, of course. On Armageddon MUD, I have next to no control. That makes it more fun but also more unlikely to complete any of the plots I started.

[Malken]

Nobody is forcing you to start a plot if you don't want to.

[Riev]

Nobody is forcing you to start a plot if you don't want to.

No, but the complaint isn't the forcing of plots, its that there's an incentive to try. Its government politics all over again. Side A wants everyone to try and compete on the same level, and wants to provide incentives to do it at an investment of time and resources. Side B thinks that if you're going to compete, you're going to want to compete. If you don't want to, you won't, and its not up to anyone to try and help you along. Individual accomplishment vs group assistance.

[Malken]

Nobody is forcing you to start a plot if you don't want to.

No, but the complaint isn't the forcing of plots, its that there's an incentive to try. Its government politics all over again. Side A wants everyone to try and compete on the same level, and wants to provide incentives to do it at an investment of time and resources. Side B thinks that if you're going to compete, you're going to want to compete. If you don't want to, you won't, and its not up to anyone to try and help you along. Individual accomplishment vs group assistance.

I honestly have no idea what you just said but I feel like you're taking this text-based game from the 90's a tad too seriously.

I guarantee you that even if you were to win a raffle, probably only 1% of the playerbase would notice that you have a custom tattoo and/or scar on your character. As for the skill bump, 6+ karma players already have that option x3 on pretty much every single characters they create and I guarantee you that these high karma players already have an edge on many of you.

[Riev]

I think you're misunderstanding my point, Malken. Its that I'm against the people who are vehemently opposed to the idea of offering a small incentive towards encouraging people to communicate more and try to involve themselves in more plots.

I personally think that it might help get newer people more interested in the game if there is something non-karma based to work towards, and incentivize older players to 'try harder'.

The people who are against, to me, appear to be arguing that if you're playing Arm and NOT already doing this, you don't belong here. Why incentivize people who aren't performing to another person's expectations?

[Miradus]

I think you're misunderstanding my point, Malken. Its that I'm against the people who are vehemently opposed to the idea of offering a small incentive towards encouraging people to communicate more and try to involve themselves in more plots.

I personally think that it might help get newer people more interested in the game if there is something non-karma based to work towards, and incentivize older players to 'try harder'.

The people who are against, to me, appear to be arguing that if you're playing Arm and NOT already doing this, you don't belong here. Why incentivize people who aren't performing to another person's expectations?

Ignore them, Riev. It's mostly just virtue signaling. "Hey, look at me, I'm ALREADY the type of player you want, staff. Look at me!"

Plots are great and when I play a character who can start some, I do. When I can't, then I try to get involved in the plots of others. And sometimes I want to play a character who just wants to be left all alone and I avoid plots. If staff wants to encourage more plots, than awesome, though the rewards aren't really great enough to have anyone who isn't already plot-enthusiastic to join into the fun.

The ONLY thing I'm discouraged about is that it sort of leans heavy on the plot STARTERS and doesn't really high-five the plot CARRIERS. You know, the lowlife Amos who goes out and actually does the things you spent 8 minutes explaining from the top of your barstool before you went back to mudsex your aide. Lowlife Amos is way more critical to the plot moving forward and creating enjoyment than the guy who created the plot. But does he get any credit while he's out there grebbing, digging, sneaking, and dodging? No. The credit and reward goes back to the fussy bastard who is committing crimes against nature in his luxurious apartment.

#GrebberLivesMatter

[nauta]

So, I was thinking over some plots in my head.  It seems that the call is meant to encourage two things: reporting the little personal plots that you have going on (which involve 2+ players), for sure, but also encouraging us to drum up bigger plots that staff can roll with.  I think.

So, and correct me if I'm wrong, we could submit plot ideas like:

1. The black mantis rise again thanks to a group of raiders in the lower red desert who have antagonized them wearing the cloaks of the Kuraci.  Their lair is here; their weakness is this; etc.

2. A wind witch with a fetish for spiders has been blowing wood spiders from the Grey into the Vrun to shake things up with grebbers, just for shits and giggles.  It lives in a cave with its ailing grandmother who is blind.

3. A crazy Fale Lady waltzed into the estate of Oash and stripped naked and declared all Oashi witchlovers.  Go.

4. The giants have left Red Storm East and a shadowy figure calling himself the Real Sandlord has established a presence there.  He's hiring bandits and ex-slaves and sifters to rival Red Storm, which of course will piss off Borsail and Kurac and the Dust Runners, etc.

5. The Reds have started a war with the Blues on the Westside, but in fact it is an elf who is leading the Reds.

I dunno.  I should put these in a notebook and think on them.

[Raptor_Dan]

All kinds of shade...

[Miradus]

I'm in a rare mood.

[Armaddict]

I'm kind of weirded out again.

Don't start plots if you don't want to start plots?

Plots happen just from playing your character in the game.  You pretty much have to -work- to avoid being involved in personal-level plots.

I do agree the rewards are not gamebreaking, as stated.  But yeah...I'm with Riev.  It's just a weird thing.  This sort of thing minus the reward should have been going on all the time.  I don't send in character reports often, but they almost always include some sort of shindig that's currently going on, and I've never imagined that the staff reading it needed an invitation to react to it IC.  That's a foreign idea to me.